BPD, sexual orientation, and personal responsibilty

[Parents! Get help here!]

We are trying to support, yet not enable our 19 yr. old DD. She has come out as bi after many years of dating boys in high school. The relationships were always amazing to start and then intense, then as the breakup happened, the ex was made out to be a horrible person. She was only single for maybe 3 weeks all of HS. She was compelled to have the bf over whenever possible, and hated when we said no. We would get into heated arguments around these and other boundaries. We always wondered why none of her other friends seemed to have this going on. Knew something was up... .and emotions were always right on the surface, ready to blow.

After the last breakup in her freshman year of college, she had told me she was lonely, nobody liked her, and she couldn't find a girl who would date her... .then she spiraled downward, cutting, skipping class, staying in her dorm room, and smoking pot. We finally found out what was happening when she went to campus psych services and ended up in a hospital psych unit for 5 days.

Diagnosis was anxiety and depression. Meds were given and there was a failed attempt at finishing the last semester. She came home... .quit her campus job, and dropped out. The cutting kept up as well as sleep disturbance, alternating with sleeping all day.

She got hypomanic during a 4 day stint after an antidepressant dose was increased (this was actually fun... .not that it's safe, but the energy level was refreshing after so much low stuff) She was screened by a psychiatrist and diagnosed with bipolar, with possible BPD... .not yet screened for that as the psych wants to wait and get current meds stabilized.

She now stays home mostly all day, not working or going to school... .just watching movies and sitting around, sometimes sleeping. Frequent nightmares. She might try to help around the house if we ask repeatedly, or walk the dog if we ask. She has asked us to "get off her back" about finding a job, or not watching shows all day.

She has found a girlfriend and is now dating, and that is THE focus of her current efforts. It's almost as if she is looking for someone to save her from herself. We have said we are not concerned with who she loves, but that mental illness and/or being gay does not give anyone a free pass out of being an adult. You can only imagine the strife that has caused. We are accused of being selfish, cruel, uncaring, and then statements about being a failure and nothing she does is good enough.

So, in essence, we have an adult child, who wants to be treated like an adult, but behaves like a child.

She will rage (I mean screaming, red faced, swearing, nasty) at us if we suggest that she take some responsibility... .financial and for doing things that could be better for her mental health. She seems to feel we are against this change in her sexual orientation, and that's why we aren't ok letting her ruminate or do whatever she wants all day... .being too "hard" on her.

I guess my question lies in the sensitive subject of the switch in her sexual preference as a possible part of the illness, or a necessary focus... .i.e. must be figured out before she can move forward, and take some personal responsibility.

My DH and I are in therapy. Our DD sees someone else. I don't think her therapist has a complete picture, but such is the nature of the beast.

Does anyone have any experience with this at all? Any thoughts?

[LittleThings]

We are trying to support, yet not enable our 19 yr. old DD. She has come out as bi after many years of dating boys in high school. The relationships were always amazing to start and then intense, then as the breakup happened, the ex was made out to be a horrible person. She was only single for maybe 3 weeks all of HS. She was compelled to have the bf over whenever possible, and hated when we said no. We would get into heated arguments around these and other boundaries. We always wondered why none of her other friends seemed to have this going on. Knew something was up... .and emotions were always right on the surface, ready to blow.

After the last breakup in her freshman year of college, she had told me she was lonely, nobody liked her, and she couldn't find a girl who would date her... .then she spiraled downward, cutting, skipping class, staying in her dorm room, and smoking pot. We finally found out what was happening when she went to campus psych services and ended up in a hospital psych unit for 5 days.

Diagnosis was anxiety and depression. Meds were given and there was a failed attempt at finishing the last semester. She came home... .quit her campus job, and dropped out. The cutting kept up as well as sleep disturbance, alternating with sleeping all day.

She got hypomanic during a 4 day stint after an antidepressant dose was increased (this was actually fun... .not that it's safe, but the energy level was refreshing after so much low stuff) She was screened by a psychiatrist and diagnosed with bipolar, with possible BPD... .not yet screened for that as the psych wants to wait and get current meds stabilized.

She now stays home mostly all day, not working or going to school... .just watching movies and sitting around, sometimes sleeping. Frequent nightmares. She might try to help around the house if we ask repeatedly, or walk the dog if we ask. She has asked us to "get off her back" about finding a job, or not watching shows all day.

She has found a girlfriend and is now dating, and that is THE focus of her current efforts. It's almost as if she is looking for someone to save her from herself. We have said we are not concerned with who she loves, but that mental illness and/or being gay does not give anyone a free pass out of being an adult. You can only imagine the strife that has caused. We are accused of being selfish, cruel, uncaring, and then statements about being a failure and nothing she does is good enough.

So, in essence, we have an adult child, who wants to be treated like an adult, but behaves like a child.

She will rage (I mean screaming, red faced, swearing, nasty) at us if we suggest that she take some responsibility... .financial and for doing things that could be better for her mental health. She seems to feel we are against this change in her sexual orientation, and that's why we aren't ok letting her ruminate or do whatever she wants all day... .being too "hard" on her.

I guess my question lies in the sensitive subject of the switch in her sexual preference as a possible part of the illness, or a necessary focus... .i.e. must be figured out before she can move forward, and take some personal responsibility.

My DH and I are in therapy. Our DD sees someone else. I don't think her therapist has a complete picture, but such is the nature of the beast.

Does anyone have any experience with this at all? Any thoughts?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[LittleThings]

Perhaps this post may be a tad complicated for anyone to answer... .but I wanted to add that this is my first post and I have been reading much about BPD here for a while, trying to make sense of the traits and how to better our communication with her. We have skills to master here.

One thing I have focused on trying to clarify is her past history of emotional dysregulation, and our efforts to validate her intense emotions. Without knowing what was going on then, we became increasingly frustrated with every new emotional earthquake. I recall many nights spent sitting on her bed telling her that everyone does not hate her, the world is a good place, she does have friends, we all love her, maybe the reason her boyfriend can't see her tonight is because he's really busy, maybe your best friend wanted to invite you, but she knew you were busy... .etc., etc.

In middle school, she was rejected by one of her peers and told she wasn't cool enough to be in their group. I believe that set in motion a pattern of behavior that may have been based on this rejection... .and persists to this day. Her fear of rejection/abandonment is intense.

To her, 'No" means "We don't love you or care about you", and boundaries are perceived as a way to control her.

I have read that is is OK to contact my child's therapist and or psychiatrist to voice concerns, even though no info can be given since she is an adult. Is this a good idea? How much to share with either?

[sunshineplease]

Oh, LittleThings, does this ever sound familiar!

Your daughter's story is my daughter's story, with some differences in the details. Sexual orientation questions/changes seem to be part of the BPD picture.

It's almost as if she is looking for someone to save her from herself.

The BPD tendency to want someone else to fix the problem makes it so hard to stay single and get your feet under yourself before you try tangoing with someone else. If you read The Buddha and the Borderline (Keira Van Gelder), you'll note one of her main problems is using sex as a coping mechanism, and that she is intellectually aware of the problem years before she can begin to stop acting on her impulses.

As I told the T, I don't care whom my child loves, as long as the relationship is healthy (which the last one was definitely was not). I also hope that, when my DD does engage in a relationship, that it is based on true emotional and physical attraction, and not shame due to self-esteem and body issues. Sometimes I think pwBPD can be a magnet for abusive types, who sense how needy and manipulatable our children are.

I wish I knew the answer to the "life avoidance" issue. DD's done so much therapy (3 months in wilderness and 7 months in an RTC) and they've worked with her to find successes upon which she can build. At the moment she's able to get herself out of bed and go to work: Huge progress! I'm well aware that  that could change at any time, and that she needs a ton of support to do things most 18-year-olds don't even have to think about. I'm choosing to look at this as a process, and one where improvement is always possible.

[sunshineplease]

Just saw your update. Again, all way too familiar. *Sigh.*

Yes, I think it's usually a good idea to let the professionals see things from your perspective. Often our children with BPD "show" themselves to us in a way they do not to other people. One of my greatest frustrations in all this is waiting for the Ts, who seem to believe all parents are toxic until proven otherwise, get to know us. It has taken months for the therapists to get the picture, and it's always, "Oh, NOW I see what you meant" or "Yes, you're right... ." Really fries my bacon, the waiting. Then, once the T sees DH and I don't have three heads, our observations seem to be helpful/save a bit of time.

Boundaries are perceived as a way to control her

Yes, indeed! What's helped on our end is learning that very often our past boundaries actually were an effort to control her! We're finding that when boundaries are in place only to protect our own sanity, they tend to work: She often accepts them with minimal blowback. The first couple were door-busters, but she seems to get now that it's not all about her. We just have to stay rock-solid in our intent and our follow-through.

[crumblingdad]

Have gone through this with our DD16 where she went from being straight, then bi, then gay, then straight.  I think it comes with the territory, we have very little rage from her over it or focus on it though.

We simply tried to use validation where we told her that we accept whatever sexual preference she chooses unconditionally and told her we fully support those choices.  Our other focus has been to continue to try to explain supportively that regardless of the gender or sexuality she chose that until she can be healthy and love herself that no relationship can truly be healthy with someone else or fix the struggles she's facing.  She didn't care for hearing the latter but we try to discuss those things only when it appears she's in a rational mindset and we've  maintained we would support her choices so long as they are safe and healthy, but that our belief that a serious relationship at this point in her life may not be the best choice.

I'm not sure how you've communicated with your daughter on the subject but we found that we tried to keep the sexual choice topic very seperate from anything to do with other topics so she wouldn't mix them up and feel we were trying to deny her preferences or mixed up other topics as somehow meaning we disapproved of her choice as it related to her sexuality.

I'm curious - are you frustrated with her current choice to be bi or gay?

[LittleThings]

Hi, crumbling. We really don't have issues with the choice, just more with the fact that it seems another relationship is an attempt to to avoid working on herself and to have someone fix her problems for her. We've said that, and are assured that this time it's different. We've met her girlfriend and had her over for dinner... .she's very nice, in college, works. When I see them together I can pick up on the insecurity and neediness there from my DD. I can imagine my DD changing her preference over time and that would not surprise me at all. We do try to keep that separate from other issues... .try not to focus on that... .it's just another relationship.



Sunshine... .Ah, the boundaries. I think they've evolved, but I wonder if we can ever have them be seen for what they are... .early on in HS from safety and efforts to keep things to the "everything in moderation" department, to presently attempting to preserve our sense of peace and order at home.

Early on with the dating we had boundaries as to frequency of visits, times and priorities regarding school/work/dating balance/computer usage. She pushed these regularly and often with a vengeance.

Now there are fewer boundaries there, but still curfews and telling us where she will be. Using our car means she is also going to therapy on a regular basis, and contributing to the insurance bill... .(not happening at the moment!)... .not expecting us to pay for everything. Recently, we've asked that she do something other than sit in bed all day watching horror movies. (esp. since she has reported that she has nightmares)  Efforts to motivate have not been well received. Again, the romance comes first, and when there's a lull... .not much else.

Can you elaborate on what's working for you, boundary-wise?

I hope the psychiatrist will allow me to talk, but my DD hasn't signed the release and said she's not comfortable with that. She said then she would have no idea what she might tell me (!) I suspect some parent bashing... .

[LittleThings]

She didn't care for hearing the latter but we try to discuss those things only when it appears she's in a rational mindset and we've  maintained we would support her choices so long as they are safe and healthy, but that our belief that a serious relationship at this point in her life may not be the best choice.

So true... .Timing is crucial when choosing to discuss things.

[sunshineplease]

I probably wasn't clear. The therapist can only talk to you if your daughter has signed the release. But a good therapist will listen to you, regardless. Parents often have useful info not available elsewhere.

As far as boundaries go, it's a work in progress. Recently I found out DD was smoking again and, despite my efforts to detach, I found myself caught up in negative emotions I've been working hard to understand and mediate. So to make myself feel better, we tweaked the financial situation so DD would be using her own earnings to buy cigarettes, and DH and I would not be paying for the them. I know it's a minor thing, but it feels cleaner to me. I can't change what DD does, but I don't have to enable, or make it easy for her to engage in behaviors that I don't like or believe are not in her best interest. Right now we're beginning to discuss what it might look like were she to come home, and I'm trying to do the same thing: Identify my trigger points and be up front about them. Not blame her, not blame me, but clarify what DH and I can live with and what will likely trigger emotional backsliding on our parts. And, simultaneously, keep on with the challenge of radical acceptance.

If I can truly accept my limitations, I'll be able to set boundaries that help me stay sane. If I can accept her limitations, I won't have unreasonable expectations. I'll also be able to avoid taking on responsibility for her feelings, actions, or situation. Tough road, but worth it.   

[LittleThings]

Actually, her psychiatrist recommended she sign the release, but she "forgot" to.

After we caught her skipping regular therapy to run off to GF's house an hour away, we put down the limits about using the car only if making and keeping a weekly appointment, and asked her to repay us the tire damage from that trip... .she went off to the psych and told her we were treating her like a child. She came home to tell me that her psych said we shouldn't treat her like that.      

She had been smoking pot here in the house and when I found out I said "no way do we accept this behavior in this house". She stopped pretty quickly, but she'd said, "My therapist says it's no big deal".   

I think it's so difficult to figure out what she is truly capable of. We feel manipulated when we see her take off for the day or the weekend on a romantic outing, then come home to sit in bed the next day watching shows and proceed to rage (and threaten to cut) when we ask her to take some responsibility for engaging in other, healthier activities that would truly benefit her.

Logic has me thinking that of course she can do more while she figures out the sexuality thing, but that is not happening at this point... .and we are losing tolerance.

That seems like BPD, not Bipolar, but nothing seems crystal clear at this point.

[sunshineplease]

Hey, again, LittleThings,

I have to say, again, that your daughter's situation sounds so similar to mine it's scary.

In my opinion (and it is only that), this really isn't a sexuality issue. Having gone through this ourselves, I have do say the sexuality piece of the puzzle can easily become a distraction for all involved. For the parents, it's something we tell ourselves can be "dealt with" or understood and accepted/settled/worked through -- then everything will be better! For the kids, it's a great flashpoint for blame: "You just don't understand/want to control me/hate the fact that I'm gay/hate my girlfriend/hate my friends/hate me."

In this way, the sexuality, not the behavior, becomes the identified issue, allowing your daughter to avoid facing the fact that she's not functioning and needs help.

In our case, the better we've all gotten at talking about the real issues (trauma, school avoidance, self-esteem, poor communication, practical considerations around anxiety), the less sexuality has mattered -- to all of us.

Does that make sense?

[LittleThings]

Yes, that makes total sense, sunshine! Thanks for sharing that.

We are trying very hard not to be distracted by the sexuality piece, have presented it that way to her, and are careful to phrase our communication about it in non-judgmental terms. The longer we do that, hopefully, the more she will be able to move on from her own internal struggle, put the piece in the puzzle, and start seeing the bigger picture.

We now refuse to be drawn into any/another relationship drama... .or any other drama for that matter... .and there has always been plenty of that. This seems to have taken her by surprise.

In the past, she has drawn us into her relationship ups and downs, and in a sense, we've let that happen. Instead of using the proper validation tools, we've often tried to "help" her feel better. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[sunshineplease]

I hear you (oh, do I hear you!) and wish you the best. Progress is slow, in our case, but there is upward momentum, and better communication/connection. I savor it!

[vivekananda]

Hi there,

I just wanted to say I was struck by a tv show recently (in Aust). It was a discussion dedicated to the issue of gender identity and a young woman who must be so brave spoke quite strongly about it. This young woman had had undergone hormone treatment etc so she could 'feel like a man', she had been diagnosed with gender dysphoria by a psychiatrist when she was 18. When she spoke she had begun to transition back to being female and was quite vehement with her scathing assessment of the P who initially diagnosed her.

She had since been diagnosed with BPD (and you could see it in the poor love) and as she put it, people with BPD have identity issues, they try to find an identity because they have an emptiness inside - except she was much more eloquent than I am.

The point was made that whatever the sexuality is expressed, it doesn't matter, what matters is the person that they are. I am sure your girl is a beautiful person - but the BPD does so interfere with them and their lives.

Have you read the book:

"Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend

I am told it is excellent!


Vivek    

[LittleThings]

Thank you for your post, Vivek !

I am sure my DD is searching, searching... .and it's a really tough thing to be this young in such a state. Quite concerning that a medical professional can diagnose gender dysphoria and perhaps miss the other disorder that contributed to the identity issues.

Our DD is a wonderful person with a good heart, but so, so sensitive.

We will pick up that book!

[vivekananda]

Quite concerning that a medical professional can diagnose gender dysphoria and perhaps miss the other disorder that contributed to the identity issues.

People with BPD can be quite persuasive, can't they? 

Here is a link you may not have come across. I found it helpful for me when I was working on my boundaries. This is a gap filler until you get the book. It made so much sense to me when I started to clarify the values behind what I was trying to achieve with my boundaries.

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

Let us know how you go, ok?


Vivek