using the phone for control

[momtara]

Hubby's new thing is to call the children at the same time every night, so I have to scramble to get them ready.  They are young so I have to hold the phone for them.  I can't complain, because he has very little custody.  I guess it's better this way.  But is it normal for him to demand to speak to kids that young on the phone every night?  I would rather be in my position than his, so as I said, I guess I shouldn't complain.  But it means I have to have some contact with him every night too, and that's a bit frustrating.

[DreamGirl]

Hubby's new thing is to call the children at the same time every night, so I have to scramble to get them ready.  They are young so I have to hold the phone for them.  I can't complain, because he has very little custody.  I guess it's better this way.  But is it normal for him to demand to speak to kids that young on the phone every night?  I would rather be in my position than his, so as I said, I guess I shouldn't complain.  But it means I have to have some contact with him every night too, and that's a bit frustrating.

Any chance at giving him the benefit of the doubt? Take it at face value in that he wants to talk to the kids?

A compromise?

Pick at time that works for you - and have the kids call him?

Do the kids like being able to talk to their Dad everyday?

[momtara]

The thing is, they are toddlers.  They're too young to call him on their own or talk on their own.  I have to stand there and hold the phone, and keep encouraging them to stay on and talk to daddy, because they're little kids and they wander.  I guess I shouldn't complain.

He does seem to like talking to them, and they do like talking to him.  I don't mind that.   But it's just intrusive because then he sends me emails claiming I interfered in the calls and stuff.  If they don't get on, he will blame me.  I'm trying to make sure they talk to him!

Just frustrating. 

[DreamGirl]

Just frustrating. 

It certainly can be frustrating.   

I actually would be frustrated talking to toddlers everyday on the phone.  The topic of a toddler is pretty limited along with their attention span.

How long do the calls last?

[scraps66]

At the beginning, and knowing there was already years of PAS going on, I insisted on calling every night to maintain contact.  I endured issues with phone contact, still do, convenient distractiosn like the vacuum, having them on speaker phone and hearing ex in the background.  I call around the same time very evening - that should eliminate the issue of makign arrangements.  My exuBPD/NPD used to make those excuses for not answering, "they... .or 'we' were busy... .why don't you let me call you every night."  On the rare instance when ex calls, I put the kids in a quiet spot, put the phone on speaker, and walk away giving them the same amount of privacy that all people expect when on the phone.

I wouldn't fret too much.  I'm sure your order states there is phone contact?  most do unless real bad abuse.

[momtara]

He keeps sending me emails saying I'm interfering in the calls.  But I have to hold the phone for the kids!  I am worried he may be trying to make a case to say I've been alienating them or withholding them.  He has made such a false charge in the past.

[DreamGirl]

He keeps sending me emails saying I'm interfering in the calls.  But I have to hold the phone for the kids!  I am worried he may be trying to make a case to say I've been alienating them or withholding them.  He has made such a false charge in the past.

You can't really control what he does though. And just because he says it, doesn't make it true.

Do you feel you are interfering?

Are you allowing reasonable access?

Is the court order time specific?

I'm more of a "let Dad's time be his time", but that's just me. My husband talks to his kids everyday. I think it's an OK thing to do. It's especially valuable in those first months of separation while everyone is getting used to not spending every single day together anymore.

[momtara]

I am going out of my way to make sure they talk to them.  Being toddlers, I have to keep getting them to get back on the phone.  I am bending over backwards.  I am just frustrated by his emails saying I am interfering, withholding, etc etc.  I am just always afraid he'll go to court and tell a judge I'm interfering, and the judge will give him more parenting time.  Quite the opposite is true, but I spend hours each week documenting every little thing I do.  So the phone adds a new wrinkle.  Now he has new things to complain to me about.

Once I can get the kids to stay on the phone and not be distracted, they have njice conversations with him.

[DreamGirl]

I am going out of my way to make sure they talk to them.  Being toddlers, I have to keep getting them to get back on the phone.  I am bending over backwards.  I am just frustrated by his emails saying I am interfering, withholding, etc etc.  I am just always afraid he'll go to court and tell a judge I'm interfering, and the judge will give him more parenting time.  Quite the opposite is true, but I spend hours each week documenting every little thing I do.  So the phone adds a new wrinkle.  Now he has new things to complain to me about.

You can't live your life in fear, momtara.

I also don't really think that his version of "interfering" is a viable reason for a Judge to allow more parenting time. So, I don't know that your fear is valid. 

You're letting a Dad talk to his kids. Every day. You're supporting their relationship.

I'd stick to that.

He gets to complain. You get to not respond if you've already addressed it before.  

[GaGrl]

I think the suggestion of a speaker phone in a quiet place is a good solution.  Set them up on the speaker phone, then announce that you are leaving the room or area and the children can hang up when finished talking to Daddy, or come get you to hang up.  Then he can't say you are interfering.

[momtara]

Yeah, he said no to the speaker phone because I might record the conversations.  I actually have recorded HIS harassment of me, so that's why he's saying it.

I know - I have to stop fearing him and ignore all of his threats, because that's largely what they are.  Still, it's very frustrating.

I feel like it would be hard to prove in court that I let him talk to them.  How do you prove such a thing?  I am marking it on a calendar I have. 

[Ishenuts]

Momtera - can you use Skype? The kids might be more involved if they can look at him? And he could see how difficult it is for you to keep them on the phone.

And I know what you are going to say - he wouldn't go for it because you could hear his conversations. But holding the phone for them you can probably hear his conversation anyway! Why is he so afraid that you'll hear what he says to them? That's a bit suspicious, too.

Don't worry about his accusations. Anyone who has children knows how difficult it is to get them to use the phone, especially toddlers. My uNPDexH used threats and manipulation to scare me, too. Don't let him! You are doing a great job! We're just dealing with sick people.

[momtara]

Very true.

Oh God, Skype would just make it worse.  Then he could claim the room is too messy!

So tonight he complained because our son asked for juice in the middle of the conversation.  He said I should have "prepared" him better for the call and that I should do so for tomorrow's call.

It's the same walking on eggshells as I did when I was married.  I have to worry now that my son will ask for juice while talking to daddy!  I know, I just have to ignore his nonsense.

 

He is really going downhill because of the divorce.  I feel bad but I can't stop it. 

[david]

My xBPDw purchased a cell phone for our 4 year old when she left. I was told that I was not allowed to touch it and it belonged to our son. I said nothing but did think it wasn't the brightest idea to give a 4 year old a cell phone. The phone book had "mom" in it so he didn't have to remember the number. He broke, lost, etc 7 phones before ex realized it wasn't a good idea.

I have learned, when dealing with ex, when she makes a demand that doesn't make sense I sometimes go along because I can guess what the natural outcome will be. I do the same for our youngest one. It helps them learn consequences and thinking things through. Our youngest is 10 now and he is emotionally more mature than his mom.

[yawp419]

Momtara, that sounds so hard and awful. I don't know if you do this already, but I've started keeping a journal, just recording things/conversations particularly contentious ones. I know it might not necessarily be admissible in court if/when things come to that but at least now I can remember and not feel like I'm going crazy when my husband insists a conversation didn't happen! It helps me to feel like I have some control.

All you can do is go along with what's manageable and not too hard to pull off - hold the phone for your kids, know you aren't interfering and if he still says you're interfering at least you will know you're doing everything you possibly can. I tried to go on a hike with my husband and kids last weekend (just a short one, they are also toddlers!) - my husband said I was interfering and literally told me to walk behind him and the kids and not talk, basically. I was furious but just did what he said to avoid drama while fuming to myself - but then also reminding myself that at least I could go home now to my own peaceful space and not take his b.s. anymore. I knew that I was just trying to help and act normal - he was feeling insecure and unstable and took it out on me. All you can do is the best you can - and at the end of the day you know the truth. I'm so sorry for the drama you're dealing with and can definitely empathize. Hang in there!

[Nope]

Yes. He is absolutely setting you up. Those emails are for a reason and will play a roll in court because they will be admissible as direct evidence.

You need to follow the exact letter of the parenting plan. Does it specify that he needs to be able to speak to them daily? Look at the wording and let it guide your actions.

Also, for anything not specifically addressed in the plan, don't feel like you have to just give him what he wants. I.E. Does it say in the parenting plan that speaker phone isn't to be used? If not, too bad for him because you are under no obligation to stand there holding a phone to a toddeler's ear. Just tell him too bad.

Feel perfectly free to stay in the room and record the conversations. I don't know the rules where you live but if the calls arent on speaker then his communication with the kids probably becomes inadmissable. Doing this will cut down on how much writing you have to do. Then if he does drag you back to court be honest with the judge and say that you didn't want to be found in contempt for something you weren't doing.

[silvo99]

I have older kids (8,9 and 10) and have successfully managed accusations of interfering with communications.  My parenting coordinator explained to me that the best way to manage my xBPDw and her need to call at potentially bad times is for me to have the kids call her.  Based on our settlement she is only allowed to call between 8-8:30pm.  This is something I put in since she was abusive with the phone.  Now that does not keep me from having the kids call her at 4pm.  The idea is to take control of the phone situation.  By having the kids call her her after school I'm able to have a far more relaxing evening knowing she's not going to call at bedtime.  Plus it thwarts ill-tempered accusations that don't benefit anyone including the kids in the long run.

Don't wait for the call.  Take control and have the kids call him when it's best for you.