Painting me black to the attorneys AGAIN

[thisyoungdad]

Not sure if this is the right board for this or not but I was hoping for some feedback. Sorry it is kind of long.

Due to a kind of complicated living situation/arrangement the ex has a few of my things in her garage and I have many of her more expensive things at my house. I have the room in my house but no garage and she has a garage so she has things like a huge stack of expensive firewood, various other shop things etc.

So I have been asking since probably June to come get the firewood, and a few other things. I didn't push it too hard, my attorney told her attorney I wanted my things and it never happened but it was put out there. So the weather is turning and the divorce is almost final and frankly I just want my stuff back. I will keep storing hers if that is what she wants but I want my stuff. So we made a plan, via email thank goodness, for me to come over tonight at 5:15 and she would let me into the detached garage. Well she "forgot" which maybe she did. So she called me to say she was sorry 2 hours later and when I tried to make a new plan to get my things soon she got upset because she accidentally let slip something about her breaking the parenting agreement and she got caught and when I inquired she got mad. That though is a separate subject. Anyway so I asked about it, very politely after taking a few deep breathes and she hung up on me. While sitting there in front of my daughter. So I texted and asked her to please call me back. Waited a few then called her back. So since the last thing she said before revealing the info she didn't want to was that I could come over tonight and get it, now in the dark and now also a freaking downpour if I wanted to. Mind you now it is almost 730 not 515 and I was eating dinner and getting ready for work tomorrow. None the less though here is what happened... .

Anyway here is my half of the text messages... .but I am at home catching up on some emails to people when I see this email come through roughly around 930 tonight, to my attorney, her attorney, me, the family advocate (child advocate)... .and this is a direct copy.

From her to everyone:

This evening after I declined to discuss a non-urgent issue on the phone when I was with XXXX, "He" (took my name out) sent these texts to me:

(after she hung up after she called me)

Call me back or I am coming right now to get MY stuff

***at least a 5 minute gap between the two***

Ok on my way right now

And Now it is f-*ng down pouring when it had been dry all evening! This is BS



***I knocked once politely like I would at anyone's house then I sent this***

I want my stuff and I will knock until I get it

***I knocked 3 or maybe 4 times, calmly like I do at a friends house when they don't hear it the first time, didn't ring the bell, didn't yell, I stood there honestly very serene***

He then came over to my house and repeatedly knocked loudly on my door and rang the bell, scaring XXXX until I answered.



This behavior is not acceptable.

She didn't even sign it.

Since I was on my account I emailed back, to everyone, a polite but none the less set the record straight response about how SHE called me, after SHE broke the agreement, that SHE hung up on me and basically both sides of what happened.

I am angry too because we have not had to talk to the lawyers in along time about stuff like this and not to the family advocate since July. In fact we have had no escalated interactions in weeks now. So what the heck is this and since my attorney is out of town until the 7th of October I feel like I am now open season for whatever her attorney feels like throwing my way on this.

I am just so infuriated that she makes it look so one sided and like she is the victim. When I was at her house, she slammed the door in my face while my daughter was trying to say goodnight. This was after she shut the lights off and ushered my daughter quietly into the other room creating a fear that was not there. Finally after knocking 4 times and just about to go home and email my lawyer, she opened the door briefly to slam it in my face again.

It was like 2 minutes after she slammed the door that then they opened the door again to let the cat back in and I was still there by chance emailing my attorney and since it was down pouring I was standing on her porch.  Then she let my daughter give me a hug and say good night and was cordial like nothing happened. Then an hour later this email.

I would love to hear that sane rational people will be able to see right through her email. I am sick of being portrayed as a perp. with her and her the victim because inevitably I will get "in trouble" and have to apologize like I always do but she will get the sympathy card or at least the pretend one--I am sure without a doubt the family advocate knows what I am dealing with, she pretty much said so to me but I don't know what her attorney thinks and mine will flip a lid for sure but to keep the peace they make me appease her. I am still astounded though for some reason that she would twist it so much. I have not felt so helpless and manipulated by her in at least a month or probably even 2 months now and it is so nice. We are for all purposes divorced even though final papers aren't signed or filed including a parenting plan/agreement.

Thoughts? Am I crazy or just dealing with crazy? Whether or not I stepped over the line or not... .and feel free to tell me that I want to learn how to deal better.

[ForeverDad]

Firstly, most if not all people want to look good.  Your ex has a triple dose of that.  She wants to look good, vindicated, targeted, etc even if she has to use her 'truths' and exclude the rest.  It's disinformation and distortion of the facts.  Not much you can do about that except to double check what you say or do every step of the way.  Documentation is crucial too.

Secondly, most or nearly all of us here in peer support are generally fair-minded people.  We're perplexed when someone isn't reasonable.  That can even set us up to look bad when we're virtually framed for misconduct as our actions are taken out of context.

• Expect little or no cooperation, at least not consistently.



• Expect little or no reciprocity, ex's niceness only lasts until the next trigger, feelings or mood change.



• Try to minimize conflict with improved communication skills and techniques (SET, DEARMAN, etc) even though they will have limited effect.



• You can't reason with unreason, logic doesn't work with someone who has extreme and inconsistent emotions or moods.



• Events and settings can ramp up the disordered behavior.  You standing at her door somewhat uninvited may feel to her like her home turf is being invaded.  The imminent end of the divorce might be stirring up her fears.  Who knows what else?

Now that you know she will predictably pick and choose bits and pieces of truth to make you look bad, do try to choose your words and actions carefully while also documenting things so you have proof that you really weren't abusive, threatening or dangerous.  (I generally have a voice recorder handy whenever I'm in contact with my ex, I never know when she might start ranting and raging or worse.  It has saved me from many potential allegations.)

Odds are that this will blow over.  However, there is a risk she may choose to seek a restraining or protection order.  It's a smaller risk if she hasn't tried that tactic before now.  My ex did it(1) to block my parenting and (2) to try to make me seem as bad as or worse than her.

Beware of apologizing.  Besides being an appeasement tactic that really doesn't work long term, it could be construed as an admission of guilt, that you really did what she alleged.  However, it might be okay to say something to smooth things over as long as you don't admit guilt, though at this point it may not help anyway, ask your lawyer for legal guidance.

I'm thinking it's time to let the lawyers know it's time for you both to exchange the other's property.  If the divorce will be complete soon, then you don't want it left unresolved.  For now, you might just have to let go the concept of getting back your things anytime soon.  On the other hand, her expensive items in your care should not be returned until your items, they are your only 'leverage' to get your items back.  Think of it as a prisoner exchange in a DMZ manner.

Here's an example of what I did this year.  In prior years I would always give an insurance card for my son to my ex.  Every year.  I never once got a copy of a card from here where she had secondary medicaid insurance on him.  Not once.  So this year at the first doctor visit and in front of the staff, I offered my card and said, "Can we exchange cards now?"  Ex replied, "No, it has confidential information and I don't want you to know my confidential information" and then turned to the staff, "You can make a copy but I don't want him (the custodial parent) to get a copy."   End result, I still didn't get a copy of her card but this year she didn't get a copy of mine and I'll be sure to tell my lawyer to bring up her refusal to cooperate when we're in court next month.

[catnap]

My take on it is that as long as she has your property it makes her feel more in control. . .she doesn't want to give up that control.  The "oops" on the parenting plan played into it--she had to try and make you look worse than her. 

"Thanks, but it is dark and raining, what other day and time this week would work for you?"  She may or may have not responded, but you are gathering evidence that she is not being cooperative and you are trying to be reasonable.  By letting your emotions get in the way you are giving her the "evidence" that can be skewed. 

When your attorney returns ask him/her what can be done about getting a date and time (in writing) set to exchange personal property and would a civil standby be a good idea given her behavior.  A civil standby is done by most police departments by  having an officer standby to ensure that the peace is kept. You can speak to the local police department to see what their procedures are for this.  Or take a third party (non-relative) adult with you as a witness.  In your shoes, I would try to give her property to her the same time to avoid other issues later. 

[thisyoungdad]

I did ask her that exact question. I said it was dark and raining now and gave her the days that I could come over and she hung up. But before she had hung up she had offered, and I have this in the text exchange, where she offered me to come over that night and get the stuff... .so when she hung up I decided I would take her up on her offer only of course she went back on that offer.

I have had my AA sponsor, who also knows the ex, be a stand by witness before. He did this for us when we moved out after selling our house last year. He would probably come again and my ex knows that he is well known in the small town AA community and respected and she is in AA as well so she wouldn't pull anything with him there.

She has not tried the restraining order. She threatened once to call the police and made it appear she did but she was just lying. Her attorney is so reasonable that she would drop the ex in a heartbeat if she got a restraining order and that is part of their contract that no aggressive legal moves be made or the contract is broken. Basically don't do anything crazy or I am gone. I appreciate her attorney for the most part.

[catnap]

Sounds like something then can be worked out between the attorneys to exchange property and you have a good witness to take with you. 

We are for all purposes divorced even though final papers aren't signed or filed including a parenting plan/agreement.

The odds are high that she will do something similar again down the road.  I suggest that you look into Our Family Wizard (OFW) for communication.  www.ourfamilywizard.com/ofw/  If you think it would benefit you and your daughter, please ask your attorney about including the use of OFW. 

Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak is a good resource to help you spot and counter parental alienation.  I am suggesting this because of the shenanigans she pulled trying to make your daughter fearful the night you came over. 

[livednlearned]

She just gave you a warning shot that she's capable of making false allegations.  

Divorce, especially with BPD involved, turns people into cornered animals. Every time you communicate with your ex about something, you expose yourself to risk. Since your emotions are still running super high, be especially careful about your judgement. Check in here with friends first before you send something to her, or show up at her house.  

My L advised me to stop texting. No phone conversations. Email only, no longer than 3 sentences, only about S12. Since recording is not legal in your state, avoid ever being in the same place with her alone.  One of the advantages you have over her is your ability to regulate your emotions, be consistent, and check your impulses. If you can't do that during a custody battle, then you end up leveling the playing field, and you don't want that.

Judges don't care why you did something, not really. They want to know why you made the choices you made.

[thisyoungdad]

I recently got Divorce Poison and have just started to read it. I am not too far into it.

Yes my ex will be "good" for a while like she has been for a month or something then out of no where turn into that cornered animal again.

I talked to my attorneys assistant today and she said my attorney had noted the "interesting" fact that no one had weighed in on the emails. I said to her, because I have a good relationship with her and she has seen the ex's craziness, that I didn't care if anyone did because I thought it was B.S she sent it to start with. The assistant just sighed and was like... .yeah I know... .in her very sympathetic tone. We did hear back from the family advocate (child advocate) who emailed us both and although not directly addressing the email was frank with my ex that if we had an arrangement for me to get my things, and I had repeatedly requested them, that there was no reason that it should not be dealt with reasonably soon and with reasonably little trouble. She did however suggest that if we felt we could not handle being around each other either the ex could find a way to leave me access to the items in question or we could have a witness etc. We made a plan for thursday for me to get my things, she is going to leave her garage open for me and I can get my stuff and then lock it and she will be gone for the evening. When she says that she does tend to mean it and I never see her so I feel like that should work. If I get there and that is not the case I will call one of many friends who lives close by to come over.

Just so damn sad... .