fire in the hole

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

well, i pretty much napalmed my childs mom. i have a daughter with her. she's 4 and a half. as of recently my childs mom, we'll call her angel was evicted from her apartment because she was running an illegal daycare at her apartment. angel after a long time of NC even at exchanges, confided in me this and I gave her some support. she asked if I would help her move and I said maybe. so i asked her if she wanted to be friends and she brought up a bunch of stuff. I made her take a DNA test, I was abusive, and a host of just crummy things. I bit my tongue and was like, well, f u.

so obviously i didn't help her with the move, but she progressively started talking trash through our daughter and i feel like over the past month our daughter has had a lot of negativity towards me during our visits which is a huge change and not from her, but from angel. so tonight was my night to pick up our daughter. i asked if our daughter could spend the night and she said, "she doesn't want to". obviously im thinking she's 4 and a half and she always wants to spend the night. so i say well i say she is because i don't want to bring her back at 8pm she doesn't even go to preschool (moms choice). i'll bring her back at 8am. her mom says no she wants to be with her mom in her new place.

i get to the place and its a disaster. things everywhere piled up and just disorganized. im thinking get this stuff cleaned up take a night and get organized. so i walk away with our daughter and she is in a very foul mood. but it wasn't a foul mood where she was foul for no reason. it was a mixture of crumminess. from being in the house to being manipulated so i try to smooth things over. we go to starbucks and things are fine, but she throws this HUGE tantrum screaming you're mean, you're so mean to me. and i lose it. I'm thinking this is not our daughter this is what angel is telling her. this is not right. so i abruptly take our daughter back to her moms home as she's screaming she wants to go back home. so i just call angel and say i have an emergency i need to drop off our daughter.

so i get there and i'm so pissed because i can't even look at angel. another thing is. this past weekend i got a slot for our daughter to do swim lessons. our daughter warmed up late in the lesson it was at the last minute and she was excited about it, but apparently when our daughter was with her mom our daughter suddenly hated the swim lesson, which further agitated me because that was not what I saw. so angel also said she didn't like the swim lesson and she doesn't want to go back. and i'm thinking really? you're going to let her do that? what the heck?

i just needed to get away from the situation. but i couldn't keep my composure so of course i sent her a text saying if you're going to talk hit talk it to my face. what the heck is wrong with you? then i get a text back saying, "well she's not a baby anymore she can see you're an ass. i can't hide it from her forever". I lose my hit. I say a lot of nasty things. Now I just made the situation worse, a million times worse because I said hit about her being on welfare, borderline, and her child molesting dad who's in prison for molesting kids who she took our daughter to see.

I'm at a loss here.

[Justadude]

well, i pretty much napalmed my childs mom. i have a daughter with her. she's 4 and a half. as of recently my childs mom, we'll call her angel was evicted from her apartment because she was running an illegal daycare at her apartment. angel after a long time of NC even at exchanges, confided in me this and I gave her some support. she asked if I would help her move and I said maybe. so i asked her if she wanted to be friends and she brought up a bunch of stuff. I made her take a DNA test, I was abusive, and a host of just crummy things. I bit my tongue and was like, well, f u.

so obviously i didn't help her with the move, but she progressively started talking trash through our daughter and i feel like over the past month our daughter has had a lot of negativity towards me during our visits which is a huge change and not from her, but from angel. so tonight was my night to pick up our daughter. i asked if our daughter could spend the night and she said, "she doesn't want to". obviously im thinking she's 4 and a half and she always wants to spend the night. so i say well i say she is because i don't want to bring her back at 8pm she doesn't even go to preschool (moms choice). i'll bring her back at 8am. her mom says no she wants to be with her mom in her new place.

i get to the place and its a disaster. things everywhere piled up and just disorganized. im thinking get this stuff cleaned up take a night and get organized. so i walk away with our daughter and she is in a very foul mood. but it wasn't a foul mood where she was foul for no reason. it was a mixture of crumminess. from being in the house to being manipulated so i try to smooth things over. we go to starbucks and things are fine, but she throws this HUGE tantrum screaming you're mean, you're so mean to me. and i lose it. I'm thinking this is not our daughter this is what angel is telling her. this is not right. so i abruptly take our daughter back to her moms home as she's screaming she wants to go back home. so i just call angel and say i have an emergency i need to drop off our daughter.

so i get there and i'm so pissed because i can't even look at angel. another thing is. this past weekend i got a slot for our daughter to do swim lessons. our daughter warmed up late in the lesson it was at the last minute and she was excited about it, but apparently when our daughter was with her mom our daughter suddenly hated the swim lesson, which further agitated me because that was not what I saw. so angel also said she didn't like the swim lesson and she doesn't want to go back. and i'm thinking really? you're going to let her do that? what the heck?

i just needed to get away from the situation. but i couldn't keep my composure so of course i sent her a text saying if you're going to talk hit talk it to my face. what the heck is wrong with you? then i get a text back saying, "well she's not a baby anymore she can see you're an ass. i can't hide it from her forever". I lose my hit. I say a lot of nasty things. Now I just made the situation worse, a million times worse because I said hit about her being on welfare, borderline, and her child molesting dad who's in prison for molesting kids who she took our daughter to see.

I'm at a loss here.

[DreamGirl]

Oh justadude, this stuff is so hard.  

First, let it be known, statistically speaking, that all these kids really, really struggle at transition time. I remember my 8yo stepdaughter throwing herself on the ground in dramatic glory sobbing on a drop off (over I don't even remember what). My husband's lawyer actually pointed out that many kids of divorce struggle on transition days. I started to notice that there really was a pattern of this kind of "stress relief" for her on transition days. She just didn't handle it very well. She actually would make herself sick over it.  

A pwBPD really can make these already hard situations... .monumentally worse.

There are tools to help your little one, justadude. Your already helping her by providing your stable presence when she has a mama who will probably continue to live her life in the same way she is living it now. Lots of moving. Lots of messiness. Lots of chaos. Kids don't do well in chaos.

You lost your cool.  You blew up. You unloaded on her. It happens. I've personally done it myself.

How do you feel about it? Good? Bad? Vindicated?

Where do you want to go from here?

[Waddams]

It took group and individual therapy for over a year to develop the patience needed to not let both barrels of the metaphorical double barrel shotgun at uPDxw when she pulls her crap, and there are times that I can still barely contain myself.  I also think she ratchets up her crap just for me when I'm around her and she knows I'll look like an ass if take the bait.

An example is she was openly flirting with yet another woman's husband, blatantly, in front of said woman, while we were all at my son's birthday party this past summer.  I mean, it was horrible.  And she kept looking back at me after every "oh he's so hot" comment.  In her looks at me, she didn't see the eye daggers being launched at her by the guy's wife.  I believe she remained totally clueless to the reactions of every other person (especially the other kid's moms).  There were so many things coming to my mind, and it was hard to keep my mouth shut.  I just got up and went over to where my son was playing with the kids and engrossed myself.

Another of the adults did say something later when we were out of earshot, and I just responded that I'd spent too much energy on other similar situations when we were married and I just plain was gonna stay out of it.  The lady just smiled, nodded, and went on her way.

Anyway, the point is don't beat yourself up if you loose it occasionally.  You need an outlet for those emotions, and it takes time to develop new ways to deal with the stress that these people bring to our lives.

As for your D4.5, just love her, take your time, tell her mother your parenting time is not optional, and show your D4.5 that her mom's version of you is not true via your actions.  D4.5 will figure it out.  If things escalate, involve some T's, etc. and get help with the situation.  You have the power to address the alienation, and also strengthen your relationship with D4.5 at the same time.

[Justadude]

@DreamGirl - You're right transitions are hard for kids in general. If I put myself in kids shoes I wouldn't want to transition, it would be annoying and disruptive. I get it. Our daughter has been very good up until this past month when our daughter has expressed more communication to stay more and more at my home on several occasions. This didn't sit well with the "ex". I think she feels threatened anytime we get closer or things move at an excelled positive pace. There is always some negative dagger. Thanks for the uplifting response.

@Waddams - That sounds difficult. I like your approach take the bait. It's just she get sso negative and angry and the silent treatment. I'm like what the heck is your deal. I don't like it. Definitely a hassle. Thanks for the response.

[ForeverDad]

but i couldn't keep my composure so of course i sent her a text saying if you're going to talk hit talk it to my face. what the heck is wrong with you? then i get a text back saying, "well she's not a baby anymore she can see you're an ass. i can't hide it from her forever". I lose my hit. I say a lot of nasty things. Now I just made the situation worse, a million times worse because I said hit about her being on welfare, borderline, and her child molesting dad who's in prison for molesting kids who she took our daughter to see.

She is blaming and blame-shifting.  You told her bluntly what you felt and knew and the only effect was she threw it back at you.  Not productive.  Understandable what you did but still unproductive.

• Do you have Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak?  It really helps you to handle the predictable blaming and alienation tactics better.



• Also, the recommendations mentioned above to get a counselor for your daughter would also be helpful.  That may be hard if her mother obstructs or uses child counseling as another way to allege you are the perp (as my ex did for over a year).



• Your daughter will be in kindergarten soon, try to get the school counselors there informed and involved.

We currently have a vague court order. Very minimal nothing specific. I see our daughter several times a week and because she's so little it makes sense. She's going to be 4 this year ... .I know I have to go to court this year. I'm dreading the stress of it. The woman scares the heck out of me and drives me crazy. Point blank drives me insane.

If there is no specific exchange schedule, then why can't you keep your daughter overnight?  Does the current vague order state that mother decides which overnights you get?  Without a detailed schedule stating otherwise, then you bring your daughter back when you feel it is appropriate.

Frankly, if you have your daughter only for a few hours at a time, then she really doesn't have enough time to transition and enjoy the more stable home you can provide.  Do you know what the 'standard' schedule is?  It varies from place to place but if you think you're going to end up as the minority time parent then you should get at least this:  alternate weekends of 2-3 overnights and an additional evening or overnight in between.  That's at least 3-4 overnights every two weeks?  Do you get that much?

Don't sell yourself short.  Virtually ALL minority time parents can get at least that much from family court in typical orders.  The only reason to get less is if the court sees (1) you've faded away and are not involved in your child's life or (2) there is real risk you are abusive, neglectful or potentially dangerous.  In my case, after I separated my ex started alleging I was perverted and the worst sort of child abuser.  It was totally unsubstantiated, CPS stepped up and said they had "no concerns" about me and despite her efforts I got 'standard' alternate weekends with 3 overnights and and evening in between.

I do understand you're getting frequent short visits but your child also needs relaxed, calm and peaceful extended periods with you too.  (And don't forget about vacations.  Yes, you get vacations with your child too!)

Now, I'm not saying you should create an incident demanding more parenting time.  I don't want you to risk getting jailed just because you want to parent more than ex allows and an incident occurs, but do try to figure out - here in peer support is an excellent place - how to secure more time with your daughter, how to minimize the parental conflict, how to defuse the alienation, etc.

Repeat:  Your daughter is not too young for overnights and weekends with you!  Actually, this is a crucial time, she is developing her personality foundation and framework right now on which she will base the rest of her life, she needs you, your stability, your consistent and peaceful life.  Now as well as when she's older.

[Justadude]

Thanks for the info and the book recommendation.

Recently my ex will say our daughter doesn't want to spend the night, but it's baloney cause when she's here she asks if she can spend the night and hang out in the morning.

So today I did what my ex has recently started to do. I said our daughter said she wants to spend the night. The response was nope. I was like ok see you in the morning. Sure enough she called the cops. Really not a big deal and legally I knew it.

Our agreement is from 3 years ago and my ex seems to be very angry with me about something. It's unclear to me what the deal is, but she's taking it out on ours daughter and I's relationship.

Her major trump card is abuse, which gets me rattled cause it's so absurd.

Thankfully I have an appointment tomorrow with an attorney.

[ForeverDad]

Recently my ex will say our daughter doesn't want to spend the night, but it's baloney cause when she's here she asks if she can spend the night and hang out in the morning.

So today I did what my ex has recently started to do. I said our daughter said she wants to spend the night. The response was nope. I was like ok see you in the morning. Sure enough she called the cops. Really not a big deal and legally I knew it.

Our agreement is from 3 years ago and my ex seems to be very angry with me about something. It's unclear to me what the deal is, but she's taking it out on ours daughter and I's relationship.

Her major trump card is abuse, which gets me rattled cause it's so absurd.

Ponder the impact of (1) false allegations and intense pressuring and (2) long term pressuring.

First, my ex regularly made allegations of child abuse, often just before a court event.  I told my lawyer it was so that she could walk into court waving papers saying, "See!"  But son never confirmed her claims to CPS, doctors or hospitals.  Until she lost the pediatrician.  She raged at the staff and the pediatrician sent her a letter (she was custodial parent in the temp order) that their practice was withdrawing their services.  Surprise, surprise, within a week she managed to get him to say to the hospital staff that I had raged at him and beat him on his shins in a fit of rage and got CPS involved even though the staff records noted his lower leg bruises appeared normal for an active boy his age.  Oh, so what might have caused the bruises, besides normal active kid stuff?  He later told me he was at the park playing on the monkey bars during her parenting time!  CPS interviewed him at school and later closed the case as unsubstantiated.

I think she felt forced to immediately make me look 'worse' than her.  That was the first and so far only time I know that she got him to lie.  I wonder what she did.  (Son was in kindergarten tehn but since he didn't realize what a lie was I bought him an out-of-print Clifford the Big Red Dog book, "T-Bone Tells the Truth".  He liked it and seemed to get the point.)

Second, the long term pressuring affected my child as well.  From the very beginning my son wanted more time with me.  Even when I got equal time 5 years ago, he asked for more time.  However, when I sought custody and a GAL was assigned, he greeted me on the next exchange with the words, "I want to keep 50% time."  Not his words, so what changed?  I'm sure she pressured him and he's avoided it by saying "I am okay with the schedule the way it is."

Even now, some 3 years later and he still says that... .while still asking for extended visits with me.  I'm sure he's hoping I will do the dirty work and call ex to ask for son to stay longer.  Several times he's said, I was with my mother last weekend so I'm with you this weekend." when I know that isn't so.  Trying to slip one over on me (and her).  Gotta love that kid!

So don't listen to or believe ex when she claims and blames.  View anything she says as posturing, disinformation and/or distortions, if not outright lies, unless you can substantiate it in some way.  Interestingly, court won't call out a parent as a liar, it's hard enough to get them to state a person is "not credible".  I call it court-speak for liar.