Where did the love go?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi. This is only my second post on here (I'm new). I've been with my BPDh for 9 years and we just celebrated our 5th year wedding anniversary. I knew from the beginning that things weren't what one would call normal, but what relationship is perfect? Our fights were over little things, his anger disproportionate to the situation, and lasting much longer than I thought possible. And then then there was the extreme sensitivity, the anger when I'd go on trips (really just anxiety that I was choosing to leave him to see family, friends, etc), and our sex life took a huge hit from all of this as well. Maybe the worst part is that I can't trust him with my feelings - and so I have to confide in friends, but not my own husband. All this to say that our relationship has been draining the life out of me for years, and it's finally hit the point that I have nothing left and feel like the shell of a person. I learned 6 months ago that my husband has BPD from our marriage therapist (he doesn't know he has it - he refuses to go back to therapy and I don't want to be the one to tell him... .). I felt relieved to finally understand why things were so crazy, but then I also felt hopeless when I learned more about the condition. I'm not sure I have anything left at this point. Is it possible to get past this and feel love and affection for him again, or has it been too much for too long? I don't know if anyone can answer that for me, but maybe someone has been there/done that? Oh, we also have a 3 y.o. daughter that I have to think about. Do I say an emotional shell in my marriage for her? Is that better or worse that splitting up the family? Help!

[ednapontellier]

Hi. This is only my second post on here (I'm new). I've been with my BPDh for 9 years and we just celebrated our 5th year wedding anniversary. I knew from the beginning that things weren't what one would call normal, but what relationship is perfect? Our fights were over little things, his anger disproportionate to the situation, and lasting much longer than I thought possible. And then then there was the extreme sensitivity, the anger when I'd go on trips (really just anxiety that I was choosing to leave him to see family, friends, etc), and our sex life took a huge hit from all of this as well. Maybe the worst part is that I can't trust him with my feelings - and so I have to confide in friends, but not my own husband. All this to say that our relationship has been draining the life out of me for years, and it's finally hit the point that I have nothing left and feel like the shell of a person. I learned 6 months ago that my husband has BPD from our marriage therapist (he doesn't know he has it - he refuses to go back to therapy and I don't want to be the one to tell him... .). I felt relieved to finally understand why things were so crazy, but then I also felt hopeless when I learned more about the condition. I'm not sure I have anything left at this point. Is it possible to get past this and feel love and affection for him again, or has it been too much for too long? I don't know if anyone can answer that for me, but maybe someone has been there/done that? Oh, we also have a 3 y.o. daughter that I have to think about. Do I say an emotional shell in my marriage for her? Is that better or worse that splitting up the family? Help!

[Dr.Me2]

Ednapontelli,

I share your frustration as I am going through a similar situation with my uBPDw.

I have been trying to find answers to this and through the process I come to realize that I am driven by understanding the why, the how, etc. Without trying to understand I can't function and make sense of the world around me and the world around the pwBPD my w.

I recently came across a thread that went into a deeper level of understanding of the why and how of what we are going through with the pwBPD.

I hope it helps, it is titled "answers for those who are struggling"

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=193555.new#new

[momtara]

It's hard with husbands.  Especially high functioning ones.  My husband needed lots of attention too and would resent me even if I just went to a book club meeting.  Kids do make it complicated.  I have two under 4.  So feel free to send me a private message.

My situation is more complicated because my hubby wouldn't help with our kids and could even be a little resentful at times, which made life harder.

What it comes down to for you is 1) is there any danger - like is he physically abusive?  if not, then you can take more time to think about this.  So your question becomes:  2)  How much would he have to change in order for you to be okay with staying?  Or have you lost all love?  Husbands and marriages are hard to find... .

Like you, I tried counseling.  Our counselor wasn't astute enough to recognize obvious BPD and she tried to be too diplomatic.  Things came to a head when he threatened to take our kids out of day care and some other stuff, and I had to see a lawyer.   I said that to save our marriage, we'd have to see a new counselor.

But our new counselor wasn't much help.  I was still tiptoeing.  I'd work on one behavior or incident at a time with our counselor, but not solve the bigger problems.  The truth is, a LOT of things needed to change, not just 25 percent of things.  So some behaviors got better, but things came to a head once again when he had a meltdown one weekend that was a little scary.

As you read these boards, you will learn a lot about how to deal with and understand him.  At the same time, you need to list which behaviors need to change.  Since he probably won't acknowledge or admit to them, it may take leaving or threatening to leave, and explaining why, in order to get him to see the light.  Unfortunately, my husband didn't acknowledge most of the behaviors until I actually filed for divorce.  Then he FINALLY got individual counseling and started to change.  But since he had crossed the line on ceratin things, it wasn't so simple.  I really didn't want to go to that extreme.  I didn't have the guts to suggest a separation, and really, in peaceful times, who wants to do that?  

It's sad that it may take something drastic to change him.  And of course, you have to decide if you still love him and would prefer to work with him than just walking away.  It's your right to walk away if you want.

The question of what's better for your daughter, well, consider that he probably will get some share of the custody, even if he has problems.  So you will be apart from your child at times.  That's what many of us have found out here.  If you can handle that, then ok... .Studies show that a kid with two happy divorced parents may be better off than a kid with two dysfunctional parents who make each other miserable.  If you can't function because you're afraid of him or his rants, that's a problem.

I really didn't want to give up a marriage - but I lost trust for my husband.  I don't know what the worst things are that your husband has done, besides being controlling.  I think you have to figure out what you're willing to take and what you're not willing to take.  It's a shame that separation may sometimes be what's required (and really being firm about your needs).  A better counselor might also help, but he probably won't go.

I still doubt my decision to divorce, and my husband did some things that were really cruel.  There is that nice side of him that sucks me back in.  There is a lot to weigh, but you are in a good place now because you can weigh it quietly before doing anything.

[ednapontellier]

Thank you for the responses 

[draptemp]

hello, I too, am new to the boards and also endure through a very very similar situation with my dBPDso of 2.5 years.

At the beginning, I had to really stop and think; "is this real?" becasue it was almost too ideal to be true, now that I have been reading these messages and just sort of sitting back to gain info; i realized this was the "SEDUCER" STAGE.  He did and said everything perfectly and portrayed himself as the victim of a terrible childhood relationship with his father.  Being the tenderhearted person that I am, I fell for the lure hook line and sinker and attributed to the early outburst of anger and insecurity to fact of how bad his home life growing up was.  I assumed that finally finding someone who accepted him and loved and cared for him would replace those feelings... .WRONG!

Most of the outburst were over such simple things and him feeling like i was abandoning him over the choice to associate with my own family and work associates and spiritual involvment in my church. Each time i attempted to reassure him that was not the case and I would not abandon him ever, however, the length of those outburst lasted far longer than they should have in my opinion.

to make a long extended story shorter, it has drained the complete life out of me and no matter what efforts i put forth to comfort, reassure, validate or encourage him; made no difference except for a short period of time when we were together exclusively and I would have no other interactions with anyone from my sphere of acquaintances or family.

I suggested we see a therapist and so we did.  He diagnosed BPD early on and as soon as he did, and we began working on some cognitive distortions; he refused to go back even though i had agreed to pay for the therapist although the therapist never told him what the diagnosis was, I knew. the therapist asked me then if i felt i was up to the challgenge and that it would take unimaginable strenght and ednurance to remain in a relationship.  I agreed i would becasue I truly do love him and feel that was adequate reason to remain and not abandon him in his need.

Needless to say over a period of 2.5 years the intinsity of the illness has increased tremdously.  Its his  thought that, "i hate you ''don't leave me".

there was some relief realizing it was a mental illness and that it was not my loved one hurling the vile, vicious, mean spirited venom on me, but the illness.

I can not answer your question if it is possible to get past this and feel love for them again; but i can tell you that at this poiont, understanding the illness or beginning to understand has helpted me to realized all the attacks were not my loved one, it was the night marish face of the illness. so for now i am choosing to stay and try to work through it as best i can with the personal philosphy that i can help him work through the illness and get some releif from the torment it casues him from splitting and projection. 

You are the only one who can decide to stay or leave based on your own personal circumstances and situation.  Id welcome your comments and discussion  because talkkiing with others like this is very theraputic. 

[ednapontellier]

I'm wondering if it's selfish to decide that I don't want to put in all the extra work to keep my marriage? Marriage is so much work, even when there are no mentally ill people, but this seems to require an overwhelming amount of effort on the part of the nonBPD. I'm not sure if it seems so overwhelming because I'm just so worn down and need to get a break/get my energy back,  or if I just can't do it anymore. I'm trying to make a list of the reasons to stay and the reasons to separate. My husband is high functioning so he's a good provider, has some solid friendships, and we have all our routines after building a life together. I can rely on him for some things - more tangible type stuff, but not really for emotional support, which is super important to me. He's also blown past all my boundaries (my fault, I know... .). Can I get my energy back and figure out who I am again while still with him? Can I be a good mother to my daughter when I can barely function as an individual - especially after yet another fight or failed boundary? Won't my daughter eventually realize that I'm just the shell of a person? Oh how I wish I had a crystal ball to tell me what the answer is. I love my husband, I love my family, but I'm not sure if I'm strong enough to keep us together. Whew. 

[Samuel S.]

Ednapontelller, I empathize with you so very much, even though I am a non BPD with a BPDw. Indeed, under normal circumstances of marriage, it is so much work, but much, much more with a BPD. My BPDw also is a highly functioning individual, but she is extremely selfish, self-serving, self-righteous, and degrading. All I can say is that you have a child who needs role models. If your BPD is unable to be a role model due to his issues, then, it is important for yourself and for your child for you to become the role model. You will feel happier, even if he gives you a lot of jealousy talk. You are showing your child that you can balance your personal life without giving up your child. If your BPD doesn't like what you are doing, oh well. My BPDw is jealous and very rarely will share joy with me. In fact, the last time she did was 3 years ago with a party, but even then, it was all about her and not what I had accomplished, and this was stated by some friends that we both have. As far as staying or not staying in your marriage, that is a tough question to answer. If there is physical abuse and even if your BPD apologizes, once is too much. It is then time to move out and move on with your life with your child. If there is emotional abuse of any kind, then, it really means deciding how much you are going to overlook, how much you are going to take, or if you need to leave, because you can't take it anymore. I've had my tremendous share of degradation over the years, and she then stops. It is hard to determine if she is going to resume doing it again. That is why it is difficult for me to trust her. The best of luck to you. I guess besides asking where did the love go, it is best to ask yourself how much more can you handle? 

[momtara]

I have mentioned crystal balls often too, and I have a high functioning BPD husband also.  I think the circumstances are unique for high functioning bpD husbands.  Husbands are hard to find, and many of us don't want to leave, but find ourselves drained and afraid and used to walking on eggshells.

You can always try to do a legal separation for a few months. 

Or you can make a list of things he needs to change, and tell him you are leaving if he does not.

Or if you are really drained and want to leave him even if he tries to change (which will take years and work), then it is your prerogrative.  People have certainly left marriages over much less!

[ednapontellier]

Well, it looks like we might be separating. Ouch. It just feels like there is no win no matter what happens. I asked him to go to counseling (over 6 months ago our couples therapist told him that's what we need to save the marriage along with telling him he has some issues with anger, too high expectations, and more emotional need than I can possibly satisfy), but he said no. He said he would rather separate than do something he doesn't believe will help. Yet he's not offered any other solution either. So now I'm upset even though after all my reading I knew this was going to happen. He can be so 'normal' that when BPD stuff happens I'm always shocked - the problem is that it happens often... .I think I've been trying to convince myself that I don't want to stay in my marriage bc I knew that ultimately he wouldn't agree to therapy. However, he doesn't even know he has BPD - should I give one final effort and tell him? Then he would be able to decide what to do knowing all the facts. I can't even imagine what this will do to our 3yo daughter who is already very needy(we adopted her from China almost two years ago). Does separation ever fix anything or are we just easing into divorce? I would love to put my head in the sand, preferably on a deserted tropical island.  :'(

Thank you everyone for your comments so far. This has been so comforting.

[connect]

Hi Ednapontelller,

Sorry you are having a hard time - you are in the right place here 

You said that your husband has busted through your boundaries. What sort of boundaries have been busted?

It sounds like you have a lot going on today. When these situations flare up I know they can feel all consuming - do try to take some time to slow it down if you can for your sake and so that you can think more clearly. It is difficult I know.

[draptemp]

Ednaponteller:  As I read your post and the respones, i feel like you are living my life vicariously.  The decision to go or stay is not an easy one to resolve or answer.  You are courgeous for your efforts and desires and i think that reflects geninue love for your husband (as well as myself with my SO) many of my decisions are faith based on spiritual beliefs and for myself that carries an important consideration, while at the same time trying to set boundries, validating and supporting with continious violations by the dBPDso.  It becomes an increasinly difficult tast when a loved one does not even know or acknowledge they are BPD.  my therapist had repeatedly asked if i were up for the challenge the short few months we did go to therapy.

I had an especially difficult week end filled with attacks, vicious accusations, rage and anger directed at me for all of his problems through projection, over a very simple request.  he brought up elements that are totally specutative and no basis in fact in the slightest and off to the races we went, most of attacks are wht the BPD percieves as fact.  the verbal attacks are just unbeleiveable, vicious and demeaning and that is when it is extremely difficult to muster the strenght to keep perspective of the illness and person hurling those things.  I removed myself for a short period of time, about 6 hours with no communication after the fray and then late at night he apologizes for being such an "ass" and grants the request that percipitated the conflict to begin with. also included was a plea not to abandon him and that the "demons" as he calls it, had a hold of him and took control of his heart.  Stating he'd rather "die" than allow them to attack me like he does.  I have practiced responses as suggested when these types of situations come up, but i have to tell you that in heat of the moment it becomes extremely difficult (to put it mildly) to understand it is the illness attacking me and not the person that i love.  this may not offer any consolation to you  but i admire you for your dedicated effort to stay and work out the relationship for the sake of your daughter and your love for your husband...   that has been a driving force for myslef as well.  my faith has kept me going for a long period of endurance with my SO but like you, there are times when i ask myself; "is this worth it and are my efforts in vain and how long can i continue" 

you are NOT selfish, you are realistic in your qeust to know weather to stay or leave.  after all we are not the sick ones

[draptemp]

i would suggest that all those who are struggling with "where did the love go" syndrome read the article link posted by Dr Me2  phenominal

[momtara]

It doesn't always lead to divorce.  He may realize how much he needs you.  You could do a therapeutic separation (or have we discussed that already?)  Try lookin it up here - it might give you both distance and perspective. 

[draptemp]

momtara, thank you for the suggestion.  We are not married, he is my SO

the major issue at the moment is isolation.  Non communication, ignoring me, and totaly isolation except to provoke another confrontration with attorney like arguments to suppo his acertion of how terrible a person i am and how much it is totally my fault and that i have ruined his life.  the cruelty of words is indescribable at times.  His rage can ignite in a moment's time. His weapon of choice is his tongue. 

then out of the clear blue and totally unexpected, he will speak a kindness and express a need and regret for the horrible way he treats me.  i never know where i stand anymore. 

i have no other means by which to vent my frustrations and feelings except here and it is a comfort to know there are so many others who experience the same identical rollar coaster rides that I do. 

I am choosing to seperate myself from the fray as often as I can when he explodes.  i just have to keep telling myself that it is not my loved one hurling such venon and caustic words at me, but the illness.  I think about it in terms of a physical aliment, if he had cancer or even blindness, I would not become angry with him becasue he could not see to drive or navigate the stairs etc.  emotional and mental illness would be more understandable, so to speak,   if it were a visible disease manifesting itself the routine way of other physical illness.

I hold out hope

[ednapontellier]

It doesn't always lead to divorce.  He may realize how much he needs you.  You could do a therapeutic separation (or have we discussed that already?)  Try lookin it up here - it might give you both distance and perspective. 

Thanks so much for the advice. I'm hoping that our separation doesn't lead to divorce. I'm not sure what a therapeutic separation is, but it sounds like what I would prefer. I'm going to research it now. I think distance and perspective are exactly what is needed.  The decision to separate happened so fast that my head is spinning - and even though it was my idea I'm still not prepared. I keep thinking if only he would go to counseling... .but I know I can't push him into it (even though if I'm going to be honest I have to say I'm still trying to... .).

[connect]

Just spotted that my post to you made no sense! I was answering two threads and got them confused 

Glad the boards are helping you. Seems as though you have been doing well by removing yourself from rages. How far apart are his disregulated periods? 

[draptemp]

, no worries... .i just appreicate the interaction.  to answer your question, the dysregulations were farther apart earlier on... it was only ocassionally that fhe raged and they took me totally by surprise.  I did not know what was happening and tried to evaluate what i had actually done to provoke them. that was before we started seeing the therapist and he was diagnosed with BPD.  after a few sessions, he seemed to try and regulate them but of late, i'd say in the last 7 months there have been few days that there has not been some sort of outburst, accusation, accusal and isolation of some sort not to mention verbally abusive language to demean me and blame me for all of his negative actions. 

as of today, 11-14-13, it has been two days since he verbally communicated with me as punishment for his perceived conclusion that i choose everything else over him and everybody else, including my family and friends. i have attempted to carry on a stable and consistent routine, but the isolation is very difficult becasue i am a social person who enjoys interaction. 

there seems to be a pattern of this kind of behavior when there is either a holiday or special ocassion approaching.  there are two coming up: thanksgiving and my birthday. 

being able to post and respond and read and realize others face these stame struggles is truly a life saver...

[connect]

Hey draptemp,

Dysregulation before holidays and events is pretty standard on here! I can vouch for that one. Spotting the pattern is good as at least you can be prepared. And as for silent treatment - that's hard and I have been on the receiving end of it lots too. Have you checked out the lessons? There is a workshop on silent treatment. Type it in the search bar  

[draptemp]

hello connect, yes, I have read several things regarding "silent treatment" and will continue to do so.  I have been reading a lot this morning on the tread by DrMe2.  it really is phenominal and has given men some insight into my ownself regarding the longely child.  New revelations and quite honestly puts some more perspective on things.  I am acknowledging for the first time, I am a rescurer/fixer. 

reading about it helps but the intensity of the pain is overwhelming  becasue apart from any realizations about myself, i love this man sincerely and from the depths of my soul. 

I am bout to come to terms with the fact i may have to go to therapy alone in order to get better and not feel so annilated.