I am divorced but I still go through the same stuff

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My divorce was final Oct 23rd. In the divorce papers I am supposed to see my child 50/50. In the divorce papers my ex-wife was supposed to cancel my daughters dance lessons because they were too expensive. The after divorce results: I do not get to see my daughter 50/50 my ex-wife finds excuses all the time, regarding dance my ex-wife did not cancel the dance lessons like she was supposed to instead she is demanding that I pay 50% of her over due dance lessons and 50% of her cell phone plan which I never agreed to. If I do not agree to her demands she is threatening to take me back to court or turn me into DCF for child abuse under false allegations. I pay what is required in my divorce papers I do not pay anything above that. Why? Because I do not have any extra money what so ever. My wife on the other hand has not worked since August but still has managed to pay her car payment, satellite TV service and internet service. (The alimony I pay covers the mortgage and the electric) I on the other hand cannot afford internet service, or a car payment (I have a used truck with 150,000 miles on it) and I need a cap on my tooth that causes pain and will cost about $900.00 which I don't have. I am sick and tired of the threats and false accusations if I don't do what she wants. She expects me to get a second job and she doesn't work so I am supposed to pay for my daughter's cell phone and dance lessons.

I was married to that BPD woman for 28 years she got the house and $13,000 from a our bank account I had to move in new place with no furniture and hardly have any half way decent clothes. Sometimes it seems worse than when I was married to her.

I don't know what I am asking here except maybe encouragement and advice.

[Jnah2004]

My divorce was final Oct 23rd. In the divorce papers I am supposed to see my child 50/50. In the divorce papers my ex-wife was supposed to cancel my daughters dance lessons because they were too expensive. The after divorce results: I do not get to see my daughter 50/50 my ex-wife finds excuses all the time, regarding dance my ex-wife did not cancel the dance lessons like she was supposed to instead she is demanding that I pay 50% of her over due dance lessons and 50% of her cell phone plan which I never agreed to. If I do not agree to her demands she is threatening to take me back to court or turn me into DCF for child abuse under false allegations. I pay what is required in my divorce papers I do not pay anything above that. Why? Because I do not have any extra money what so ever. My wife on the other hand has not worked since August but still has managed to pay her car payment, satellite TV service and internet service. (The alimony I pay covers the mortgage and the electric) I on the other hand cannot afford internet service, or a car payment (I have a used truck with 150,000 miles on it) and I need a cap on my tooth that causes pain and will cost about $900.00 which I don't have. I am sick and tired of the threats and false accusations if I don't do what she wants. She expects me to get a second job and she doesn't work so I am supposed to pay for my daughter's cell phone and dance lessons.

I was married to that BPD woman for 28 years she got the house and $13,000 from a our bank account I had to move in new place with no furniture and hardly have any half way decent clothes. Sometimes it seems worse than when I was married to her.

I don't know what I am asking here except maybe encouragement and advice.

[Waddams]

Can you document her threats to make false allegations?  Did she text or email it?  If you have an android phone, it's easy to have an app that will record her making these threats verbally as well.

As for the expenses, pay what the court orders say to.  Let her worry about paying for the items the court orders say for her to pay for.  Let her rage and threaten and document it all.  If she is interfering with your visitation time, document that as well.  Even if you don't have resources to hire a L and file contempt, keep documenting.  At some point the worm will turn and you'll be able to do something about it.

Keep your distance, engage her as little as possible otherwise and keep showing up for your parenting time.

[papawapa]

Tell her to pound sand on the paying for things not covered in the divorce decree.

Start documenting her refusal to honor the parenting time agreement. Get her on tape threatening to make false allegations.

In time you can take her back to court and have the custody arrangement adjusted.

[momtara]

While there are certain things we have to put up with involving our exes and co parenting, you do NOT have to put up with threats or withholding visitation.  Judges take withholding seriously, and tend to take away parenting time from the parent doing the withholding.  But you have to prove it.  It can't just be one or two times.

If you can keep your communication with her to text and email, then you will have documentation of the threats.  She is threatening to lie etc., and courts don't like that either.  They don't want people abusing the system.

Tape record every conversation with her even if it's short or you think she's in a good mood.  But it's easier to give texts and emails to court.

Does she have legit concerns for not letting you have visitation?  Is she geniuinely afraid?  If so, that's one thing.  If she's just being mean, controlling, selfish, that's another thing. 

Try to make sure this isn't personal, with each of you trying to win.  It sounds to me like this isn't something she did once or twice, and she keeps doing that.  If that's the case, you can compile the evidence and take it to court.

Threats are a type of harassment too, but I think a restraining order will just cause problems and probably isnt' appropriate when you have to co-parent.  But she should follow the court order.  That's why it's there.

You can also post this on avvo.com for free so lawyers can answer.

[ForeverDad]

While there are certain things we have to put up with involving our exes and co parenting, you do NOT have to put up with threats or withholding visitation.  Judges take withholding seriously, and tend to take away parenting time from the parent doing the withholding.  But you have to prove it.  It can't just be one or two times.

If you can keep your communication with her to text and email, then you will have documentation of the threats.  She is threatening to lie etc., and courts don't like that either.  They don't want people abusing the system.

Tape record every conversation with her even if it's short or you think she's in a good mood.  But it's easier to give texts and emails to court.

Does she have legit concerns for not letting you have visitation?  Is she genuinely afraid?  If so, that's one thing.  If she's just being mean, controlling, selfish, that's another thing. 

Try to make sure this isn't personal, with each of you trying to win.  It sounds to me like this isn't something she did once or twice, and she keeps doing that.  If that's the case, you can compile the evidence and take it to court.

... .But she should follow the court order.  That's why it's there.

She is blocking and demanding because she can.  At least that's how she sees it.  And she will keep doing violating your boundaries until stopped.  You can't force her to behave better.  And you, of course, are no authority whatsoever in her eyes.  It's tough, how do you deal with someone who won't listen to you?  In a few words, back to court.  Court is the only real authority.  Yes, court would rather that a back seat and not call out the misbehaving parent, it may take more than one motion before the court starts getting really peeved with her.

It sounds like you can't afford a lawyer?  If so, rather than paying a large retainer by hiring a lawyer, could you get some legal consultations for focused assistance?  For example, go to court, get the forms for Contempt of Court, fill them out with specific incidents of blocking and demands and attach your documentation.  Don't write "She always... ."  Court will ignore vague statements that don't have specific documentation.  Courts need dates, locations, paperwork or witnesses if any, etc.  Then get a simple legal consultation at an hourly rate and see what you might have left out, worded incorrectly or should not have put in.  Then file it with the court and you'll be back in court in a couple months and hopefully the judge will not be pleased that the order is being reinterpreted so quickly and liberally by your ex.

My lawyer told me that during a divorce case courts are not inclined to take Contempt of Court motions very seriously, they expect raw emotions and some conflict during a divorce.  But once the decree is final they expect that the parents accept What Is and Move On with their lives.  If issues arise post-divorce, the court is more likely to take subsequent conflict or noncompliance with the order very seriously.  The fact that she is ignoring the order so soon does not surprise anyone here but the judge will not learn about it until you file and get the court involved again.

[Musiccitymess]

Can only say good luck, hold on. If your BPD is like my outgoing one, engaging is the one thing that keeps them going. Not engaging works about as well as anything can. Meaning, you owe 50% of dance lessons. "no, i am not going to pay the 1/2 of the lessons that the MDA agreed to stop. End of topic". I have begun using that line, "end of topic", or "I consider this matter closed". EVERYTHING goes in writing or gets recorded.

Best of luck

[livednlearned]

I know it's hard to hang in there -- but just know that her worst behavior is your best friend in court.

If you're tight on money, the best thing to do is document each instance that she blocks you. Try to get her threats in text or email. That means no more face-to-face conversations. If you do have face-to-face conversations, make sure you record those conversations (check first that it's legal to do so in your state). Collect all these conversations and file them as multiple motions for contempt at once. Best to do it within 6 months of whatever incident you want to record.

Your ex will goof up at some point -- she can't help herself. You need to take her behavior and use it against her so that you aren't on the defensive.

In terms of her threat to file child abuse charges against you: take her seriously. My experience is that pwBPD tell you exactly what they plan to do.

She also sounds like someone who will use parental alienation against you. Filling your daughter's head with the idea that you molested her or abused her is very possible. It's an excellent idea to read Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak if you haven't already. You need tools and techniques to offset the damaging stuff your ex is going to tell your daughter about you.

So sorry you're experiencing this. It's pretty common for many of us here. You're definitely not alone.

[Jnah2004]

First of all thank you everybody for your input and advice. A few things that frustrate me is; one I know my ex-wife is telling my daughter "your selfish father is not paying for your dance class so I have to take you out its not my choice blame your father" and two every time I don't cave in to my ex-wife's demands I get the threats of reporting me for child abuse or taking me to court accompany with a mile long text of how sick and perverted I am. I have done nothing abusive or immoral at any time and I put with this crap for nearly three decades and I am still being emotional and verbally abused. I keep hoping she will get hooked up with someone else and leave me the heck alone.

[livednlearned]

First of all thank you everybody for your input and advice. A few things that frustrate me is; one I know my ex-wife is telling my daughter "your selfish father is not paying for your dance class so I have to take you out its not my choice blame your father" and two every time I don't cave in to my ex-wife's demands I get the threats of reporting me for child abuse or taking me to court accompany with a mile long text of how sick and perverted I am. I have done nothing abusive or immoral at any time and I put with this crap for nearly three decades and I am still being emotional and verbally abused. I keep hoping she will get hooked up with someone else and leave me the heck alone.

Unfortunately, some of this is on you -- detaching from it. My T suggested putting up a windshield, and letting things hit the windshield so I'm not covered in it. It's tricky with kids, because they don't know who to believe. That's why Divorce Poison is important to read. And validate your daughter -- that's how you help her trust herself, so she doesn't have to trust her mom. You have to get in front of this stuff.

Fortunately, you aren't married anymore.

[Jnah2004]

Thanks livednlearned,

I have bought Divorce Poison and I am reading it. Detaching when it involves my daughter is the hard part. If it wasn't for my daughter I would have probably moved, changed my number, changed my name and separating myself as much as possible.

[david]

My ex ran away in 2007. Chaos ensued. A few months after we had a temp custody order. Ex dropped the kids off and as they walked into the house they said in unison, " We hate you. We want to live with mom and never see you again." I didn't react and just said to them that I loved them. They were 4.5 and 8.5 at the time. They used to tell me I was a monster. I didn't react. Then I had an idea and became the evil daddy monster. I walked like Frankenstein and chased them around. They loved it. Eventually they began to see that mom wasn't telling them what they were actually observing. Today I have a great relationship with both boys. I also have stepsons. (her kids from her first marriage) I have a great relationship with two. The other has a substance abuse problem and only talks to his mom. The other boys don't talk to him at all.

If you told me things would work out 6 years ago I wouldn't have been able to see it at all. I stayed focused on the kids and learned to ignore what ex was doing. I only communicate through email and that helps a lot. It does get better.

[Changingman]

Amazing advice everyone, I can only add... .No contact bores them to find someone else to bother, just say no and end conversation. Provoke pro eek provoke seems to be their mantra. Once you stop becoming a part of their inner life they grow tired of winding you up. I talked to my ex wife causally and she phoned me to tell me once the kids were 18 she would never have to deal with me again (raging). I have not had much contact for 8 years and she has a new serious partner who she abuses exactly like she used to abuse me and still crazy making, worse as she is older.

[david]

As I learned how to detach I noticed that ex was going through the same stuff but I no longer was doing the same dysfunctional dance. It took me a while to get to that point. My ex is now just something I have to deal with from time to time just like other stuff out in the world. I still get emails in which I am abusive, I'm a poor parent, I caused her to divorce me, I need therapy, she has moved on and I need to get over her, etc... .I don't respond unless there is something in the email that pertains to our kids and I only respond to that. The rest is just a bunch of noise. Of course, I save all those emails in case I need them at some point.

[ForeverDad]

The disorder, perceptions and behaviors are the same.  Likely you are still seen as having and deserving no authority.   The difference post-divorce is that you hopefully have a framework where the only authority (even that is iffy in the pwBPD's mindset) is the court which has issued court orders.  Hopefully that has put at least some limits to the chaos and consternation.

Many of us have had to go back to court to fine tune the orders since the courts seldom get it right the first time ... .or the first few times... .or... .