Is quitting heroine easier than this?

[Awesome Jim]

It's the same old same old with me.  I'm carrying on a dysfunctional "friendship" with an uBPDexgf.  How insane is that?  And I keep allowing it to carry on - 6 years now.  It's the perfect Borderline relationship because we live an hour apart (not too far but not too close), only see each other on weekends (commitment but not committed ), aren't dating anymore but are only "friends" even though we treat each other like a married couple (close but not too close).

I blew up at her last night because I wasn't being accommodated for sleep properly when I was exhausted from doing all this heavy work for her and from going to a fall fair last night with her  Her sister is in the spare bedroom because she's living with her right now and the couch was of course occupied until 1:30 last night by her and till midnight last night by her and her son and then she decided to put a movie on at midnight.  So I got pissed off and told her I'm going home because there is nowhere to sleep.  She reacts by telling me her sister is going into the city but she's still in the house at midnight and then starts telling me that if I leave I am never welcome back and that I ruined the weekend to which I replied "you ruined my life".

It got ugly at some point because I can remember telling her I wasn't afraid of her or her bullying tactics (I can't remember cuz it all happened so fast but I'm wondering if she threatened to hit me for me to react this way) and that nobody cares what she thinks because she's so messed up.  She took my key back and kicked me out.  I sat in my car for 2 minutes and then went back to apologize for raising my voice and that I was sorry for what I said and that I am just exhausted and not thinking properly.  She still told me to leave and never come back.

I don't know why I am attracted to her but clearly I still am because why else would I get so angry with her?  I have this super hot girl from a different office but same company as I work at.  She had called Friday and said we should hang out together sometime as she had said about 2 months ago when I first bumped into her near where I live in a parking lot.  I have been hesitant with her only because of my dysfunctional relationship with my "ex who is supposed to be my friend but she's more like a wife" .

Anyway - why do I love this messed up person so much and in lieu of having a possibly normal relationship with a beautiful girl who is really nice and really seems to dig me?  Why do you think I am so attached to my ex?  Why do you think she clings to me so much and then also treats me so poorly (not all the time clearly but there really seems to be some resentment there)?

[eeyore]

Anyway - why do I love this messed up person so much and in lieu of having a possibly normal relationship with a beautiful girl who is really nice and really seems to dig me?  Why do you think I am so attached to my ex?  Why do you think she clings to me so much and then also treats me so poorly (not all the time clearly but there really seems to be some resentment there)?

Those are all great questions.  What do you get out of staying stuck?  Could it be the devil you know is better than the devil you don't? 

[Awesome Jim]

That's a very interesting question and a quote I often use, funny enough.  It says a lot though huh?  Like that saying really speaks to comfort - you know, why leave and take a chance on something potentially even more uncomfortable than the discomfort your already in?  Life is full of risk and the risk of leaving someone you love, even if they are often very unhealthy for you, is still scary.  I have a close relationship with this woman - even if we are only "friends" now, but I'm also very close with her 9 year old son, her three younger sisters, and her mom and dad (and also her dog ).

I am so angry with her that she could be so abusive towards me, not attempt to make me comfortable when I am a guest who is there to offer free labour and assistance, and then just cut me out of her life as soon as I dare utter any words of discontent.  It's just an ongoing pattern with us and it has been for six years now.  It baffles me why the two of us spend any time together anymore.  How can I be the only guy who has stuck around in any capacity for longer than anyone else?  She's 42 and there have been many men prior to me and some even after we dated.  I'm like the last man standing.  I'm probably the dumbest one.

[Aussie0zborn]

Yep, I was the dumbest one too.

Regarding your analogy, I would think it's the same as trying to quit heroin.

[Awesome Jim]

So the next day after our big fight she had texted me to forward any pictures she had asked me to take on my camera of tiles and stuff when we were out shopping for her home reno project.  I didn't respond because I didn't think it was really about the photos and I didn't see the point in getting into another potential argument. 

So I gave it a few days and called her at work on Wednesday and no answer but she finally got back that she's at a conference.  I left it alone but she called me first thing in the morning and was driving back to her office from the hotel she stayed at after being up till 3:00 am the night before (interesting hours she's keeping lately huh?).  Anyway she was pleasant enough and everything but there was an obvious quietness between us as is usually the case after we've fought.  I was on my way to my mechanics to get my brakes done and she even said "well hopefully your brakes don't cost too much".  Anyway she was pleasant enough and everything and then later I remember to send her the pics she asked for.  I even sent her some pics of her and her dog (in his Halloween bug costume ) that I thought she would think are cute.  So she said thank you but then the next day she said thank you again and then "take care of yourself" - as in very final sounding.  So I called her at work and said "hey you know you don't have to be so final about everything" or whatever but of course that precipitated the same broken record I've heard a thousand times before and now she's "afraid of me" and I "should be embarrassed" at my behaviour etc. and round and round we go.  As is usual with her she told me she had another call coming in when I tried to hold her to account for her actions - just one of many convenient means of avoiding responsibility for her bad behaviours and acting out.

Anyway I hung up on her once she started flipping out and claiming to have another call coming in and I don't think I even hung up the phone before I called this new girl about hanging this past weekend.   She was excited about getting together and asked for my number.  She was busy at work and so I guess forgot my number at work and so didn't text me till this morning and apologized for forgetting.  So anyway I am hoping to get together with this new girl and see where things go and if they go alright to also take my time earning trust etc.

I've been down all weekend though and I hope I'm not moving on too fast.

[bewildered2]

but do you want to quit or do you want to keep taking the drug?

b2

[bauers220]

I wonder if quitting heroin would be easier... .(insert sarcasm here)... .But I digress - since I always seem to respond to her when she does try to come back.  I am trying once again to quit - and I smoke ... .I tell you this feels the same... .trying to quit smoking - I am fine for a couple days... .then I start to crave it... .then it feels impossible.

I am having a BAD day... .I want to take back all I said to her... .then I remembered how she ignored me for 6 days... .not anything new to me... .but this time I said - ENOUGH and walked away.  She didn't go after me... .she has said not a word.  That reinforces the silence she was giving me - she just does not care how I feel... .only how SHE feels.  And yet I miss her... .I'm a fool.

[hopealways]

It's probably the same: both are addictions. We are addicted to the highs experienced during the idealization phase of the relationship and during the inevitable devaluation phase we keep seeking that high which we never get.  We allow ourselves to be recycled in hopes that we will experience the same high - we won't. They have a mental illness. It is called BPD.  There is no medication or cure for it.

I have been 6 weeks NC.  I am better now, but of course there are dark sad moments especially since during these 6 weeks I have realized that my mother is BPD, always has been, always will be, and the reason I was ever attracted to this empty, selfish, loveless BPDex is because she reminded me of my mom, and I thought this could be a different outcome, that someone would finally show love to me.

Love comes from within.  During my healing process I have learned to enjoy time with myself. I want to appreciate myself. Because we can love others, but in the end we can only count on ourselves.

Thank you for sharing.

[Century2012]

Not that this is funny for those of us in pain. But heroin is the exact word/analogy I used. I have not tried it. But I hear that it is an impossible to resist high. I think of how painful the withdrawal from the relationship has been for me. But I also think about how he is the one who is really hooked. Getting his next fix.

[Awesome Jim]

It definitely is an addiction.  It's also a cycle.  I can predict almost every time we have a fight what si going to come out of her mouth next and how I will again attempt to get her to take some kind of responsibility for her actions.  I can even predict the feeling down for several days after a fight (even though we "aren't dating"... .rolls eyes).  I can predict my anger and resentment coming down after a few days and my feeling guilty for losing my temper.  It's a repeated cycle of dysfunction.

I told my therapist that I think I feel guilty because I know I scare the hell out of people when I lose my temper.  I always have unfortunately and had problems communicating in my marriage many years ago (I yelled a lot instead of dealing with things before they got to a boiling point) but I have worked very hard and grown quite a lot since then.  My therapist about this and why I think I feel guilty when I get angry.  In actuality I was standing up for myself after being physically threatened and also threatened with abandonment.  As my therapist pointed out, she escalated the tension the entire day - from the subtle barbs, to the persistent accusations of me being moody (when I was just tired from being kept up late the night before by her and given nowhere to sleep - reason I was reluctant to go out there in the first place on Friday night), to the threat of never seeing her or her son again if I left, to outright saying she would like to punch me in the face (my memory eventually put together what she had said and why I said "go ahead and do it then, I'm NOT afraid of you".

My therapist also asked me "how many people have you lost your temper to this degree since you've worked on your anger issues".  I said "well I get irritated with people still a fair bit" and she said "I'm not talking about that - that's normal for anyone.  I mean how many people have you completely lost it with?" and before I could answer she said "One!".  That really put things in perspective because it's true and it also made me realize I really don't have much to feel guilty for if I was standing up to a bully and if it's only one person who I am losing my temper with it says a lot more about that particular relationship and that particular person than it does about me as an individual.

Anyway - I am feeling pretty good lately.  Moving on and staying on course so far.

[rosannadanna]

Hey awesome jim,

You are having regular, consistent, intimate contact with her, so you are officially currently a stayer.  You are very attached to her and her family, so you are a stayer.  Have you scoured the staying board, read all the articles and are practicing the communication tools?  :)o you know about radical acceptance?

You are staying b/c it is more comfortable.  Well, duh.  But why is it more comfortable?  You have done some work in the area of anger management, but you are comfortable being in a dynamic where your newly aquired anger management skills are being challenged by someone who knows how to push some buttons that are deep within you.  I suspect this pattern is from FOO.  Are you and your therapist doing any work with FOO issues?  That might be productive.

Take care  and keep us posted.  

[Awesome Jim]

FOO?  Like Foo Fighters?  Sorry - I don't understand the acronym and have never heard of it before.

Yes I have been in regular consistent contact with her but I'm not "official currently" anything nor am a I "stayer" or any other presumptuous label for that matter.  I'm a person who exists right here, right now and I am capable of change.  This recent argument where I stood up for myself feels very permanent.  I am starting to feel much better about myself and it certainly isn't because someone jumped to conclusions by labelling me or made assumptions about my "anger management skills" or my level of "intimacy" in my relationship (we haven't been intimate in five years).

Here's what I'm gonna do though.  I'm going to continue to live my life independently where I meet and date women that interest me, where maybe I'll meet one for the long term and maybe I won't, and I'm not going to lose any sleep over the loss of an abusive ass in my life.  I'll continue to work on living well and do my very best to remind myself that people that are hited up will almost always remain hited up indefinitely and that ultimately no matter how much you care for them or have cared for them, the aren't worth having in your life, no matter if even on some level you feel sorry for them because you know deep down that they are truly pathetic people and that no one in their life truly sees and understands that.

That's what I know.  I didn't spend time with her over the last few years because I was still "in love" with her, I did it mostly out of a sense of obligation toward someone I cared about who is so messed that she barely has any friends left in her life anymore and is so ego distorted she can't even see this truth.

And now?  It doesn't even matter to me anymore.  My sanity and emotional health mean far more to me than her emotionally destructive world could ever mean.

[eeyore]

FOO = family of origin

Many of the communication technique lessons work with all people and would benefit you not just with BPD but throughout your life.

Since you aren't No Contact it might be a good idea to learn those communication lessons and try using them with her.  The when you need them with other people in difficult situations it will be easy. 

It's important to look at your FOO issue to identify how your temperament and your communication style was developed.  We all could do better and recognizing that different people require different communication than what we are accustomed to from our FOO will help you in the future to be in a healthy relationship with good communication or maybe better communication than what you currently have is a better way of putting it. 

[Awesome Jim]

So I decided to write some stuff in a Word document while I was stewing today on things she's said and done recently and in the past.  My head is clearing up again.  I've been in this position many times.  I know she's abusive.  I know she's manipulative and only cares about herself.  I know she plays the victim if anyone dares to stand up to her pathetic bullying and/or banishes/punishes them.  I'm done.  I can't do it anymore.  I really really can't. As much as it hurts to say goodbye to her son, her dog, her family, everyone, it just has to be.  I cannot do this anymore and allow someone to use and abuse me.  I guess I have been in semi-denial for many years.  I am no longer.  She is an abusive, childish, manipulative, sadist who loves chaos and drama.  My therapist pointed this out.  She says "do want to know why?" when I tell her I get most worried when she's in a good mood (I mean it's because it seems she is most abusive when she's in this state more so than any other - i.e. when she's hypomanic or whatever but my therapist pointed something even more poignant out).  My therapist then tells me "it's because she thrives on chaos.  She feels far more comfortable with chaos than when things are predictable and steady".  This really hit me over the head because it is so obviously true - hence why she sabotages her own happiness and every otherwise healthy relationship she has ever had.

I can't believe I got sucked in again.  I knew not to get involved too much and I have been limiting my time around her recently.  Because I've been doing this she has accused me recently during our fight that I "have become unreliable".  No I've become aware of what a complete threat to my mental and emotional health she is.  I have come to realize that limiting my time is just as dangerous as committing more time however.  She will make me feel guilty for not being around, for being late, for not "being reliable" etc. no matter what anyway. She just tries even harder to suck me in when I pull away - silent treatment, pushing away punishment, demanding I come out and on her schedule and on time etc.  It's like watching a mini-Hitler run her pathetic little kingdom of which I have shamefully been a part.

Today is for me from now on.  No remorse.

[rosannadanna]

Hey awesome jim,

It seems like my post upset you.  I am sorry about that.  Even though my intent was to be helpful, it looked like presumption and labeling.  I know I don't like it when I feel like people are doing that to me

P.S.  I love the FooFighters!

[Awesome Jim]

No worries Rosannadanna. I have to apologize for being overly sensitive lately. I realize you didn't mean it the way I interpreted. Besides anyone whose bpdfamily.com name is likely derived from an SNL character is alright with me (wasn't that Gilda Radner's character from the Bronx or something and her name was Rosanna Rosannadanna?).

My head is getting clearer each day - familiar territory for me and the more this has happened over the past 6 years the more I've come to realize she must somehow get inside my head and brainwash me or something - me the guy I think the least likely to "drink the Koolaide".  It's hard to see the effect of guilting and shaming when you care about someone though. I firmly believe for that reason it's key to stop caring.

I'm talking a lot to this girl in one of my company's nearby offices though. We've met a few times in person through work and once accidentally socially. She has indicated she would really like to get together with me but she's been a bit hard to pin down lately - just busy with her friend's wedding and stuff plus she now lives a distance away (she used to live very close to me but because I was entwined with my BPD ex I didn't act when I wanted to back in the spring and she ended up moving closer to her office because she broke up with her bf prior to that).

Anyway life is getting better. I still wake up and my ex is still on my mind. I'm not missing her really though, I'm just angry and still processing some of the nonsense she said to me during our fight and also just going over some of the ridiculous things done and said to me over the years. I'm just still in disbelief that she is this way and even more so why I continued to subject myself to it. My therapist asked me recently which parent she reminds me of and I had an immediate answer because I've pondered this many times. She is narcissistic and critical of me like my father and angry and randomly rageful like my mother. Familiarity is often what keeps us entangled with people who are unhealthy for us.

[rosannadanna]

Familiarity is often what keeps us entangled with people who are unhealthy for us.

Amen, Awesome Jim.

My SO feels like "home" more than any other man I have been involved with.  It's very compelling and complex.  When we were at our worst (before I started using the tools on this site and was still very attached to controlling the outcome of our "fantasy relationship" we were recreating the crappy stuff between my parents. I was playing out conflict between my parents and I was simultaneously experiencing it from my mother's point-of-view and my point-of-view as a little girl witnessing crap between her parents.  Does that make sense?

Have you read any of the Pia Mellody books?  You might like her stuff:  "Facing Codependence", "Facing Love Addiction", and "The Intimacy Factor".  She is a psychologist and a recovering codependent, so her stuff is clincial but so practical!  She talks a lot about parental emotional abuse and really gets you thinking about your childhood in a different way.  She doesn't want you to villianize your parents, just to think about the impact they had on you b/c of their dysfunction.

David Richo also has a book: "How to Be an Adult in a Relationship".  I havent read this one, but he talks about adult romantic relationships being a corrective experience from our childhoods.  I did read his ":)aring to Trust", which is fantastic.

It sounds like you are making progress in your emotional detachment from this woman, especially b/c of the therapy, thinking of the possibility of dating others, and the physical distance you have with her.  These factors will strengthen your ability to think of this situation in a different way, which is hugely empowering and motivating towards acting in a different way.

Take care.

P.S.  I did pick my username b/c I admire Gilda Radner.  She was funny, intelligent, and seemed to accept her cancer dx with grace.  She and Gene Wilder seemed to have a strong relationship, too, and I had a huge crush on Willie Wonka as a kid!  So she had to be awesome to land him