Can I expect my daughter to ever hold down a job

[tightropewalker]

My teenager daughter has had 4 voluntary work positions and has lost them all due to not showing up or showing up late, she currently does 2 days at a charity shop which is virtually on our doorstep and they have given her afternoon hours so that she doesnt need to get up early, but still she thinks she can arrive any time she pleases and lets them down by not showing up, I am always the one to phone in and make some silly excuse as to why she wont be turning in that day, well today I have refused to do so, but I am the one worrying whilst she lies in bed.  Am I wrong in thinking she needs a little structure, a reason to get up,interaction with other people (she has no friends due to her temper and unreasonable behavior) Or do I just let it go? 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[modafinilguy]

Age is critical.

Theoretically I will guess assume the age of 16.

At 16, yeah she is still very teenage, definitely strong potential she will learn more responsibility and skills.

This is BPD forum, so if she has BPD, she is assumed to have serious problems.

I will suggest consider applying solid pressure, UNLESS you anticipate the significant likelihood of a massive emotional crisis.

Most concerning would be if such pressure drove in the direction of self harm.

Rage or threatening behavior (assault, breaking stuff) call the police. Not to get her likely serious imprisoned or anything, but they should cause enough of a hassle for her, if she like is physical assaulting or breaking stuff or direct threats of violence- police is good. She will have to back down in front of you and them or they are going to wrestle her to the ground, make an idiot out of her and cart her off for a few hours (most likely that's about all, unless they witness serious personal assault).

Would be helpful if you could explain how far she goes when she has "tempers" , and how unreasonable exactly is her unreasonable behavior?

If she does not have such serious emotional problem that she actually can't cope with the pressure of employment, but is basically simply being overly entitled, and irresponsible. Well even in some quite severely out of control youth, they often do sometimes need a bit of a solid SHOVE.

You say voluntary work positions, why would she be motivated to do this? She does not get paid? Is this your idea or hers? What is the goal? Your daughter does not sound like the sort that wishes to offer society her good virtues at this point in her existence!

More info! We will try and formulate an insightful plan!

It is strange though NO friends? Most teenagers social issues are VERY important. Also even BPD youth tend to seek reflection. How low is her self esteem?

[tightropewalker]

My daughter is 19 and was diagnosed with BPD about a month ago and the voluntary work was an idea we put to her which she seemed to embrace and does actually when she makes the effort to go.

I will give you some background. Firstly she was being bullied at school about her weight then  She dropped out of school 3 years ago after being diagnosed with post viral syndrome after a serious lung infection, she would spend 16 hours out of 24 sleeping and hardly eating, she hid away from the world for 18 months but then decided to go to college last year, after 6 weeks she dropped out saying she couldnt cope, I went into see her tutor and he told a different story, said that she was rude and out spoken and had been causing arguments with other students.  We supported her decision to leave college, she went on to make some friends through hanging about at a local spot where teenagers hang out, but one by one she has alienated every friend she has made.  When I say unreasonable behaviour I mean sleeping with her friends boyfriends, owing money and putting nasty posts on face book, thats just what I know of, we have ourselves been forced to put a lock on our bedroom door as she would fly into rages and be kicking our door and throwing objects at it (not recently thankfully) also stealing alcohol, which is now locked away.  I have and do love and support her and constantly try to understand her and help her, she is always so sorry after an outburst.

I am sorry if I have ranted but it feels good just to get it out.  We are hoping for a referral to adult mental health on Monday as the young peoples mental health have just discharged her when she turned 19.

[griz]

tightropewalker:  Sorry you are having such a hard time with your daughter holding a job.  I don't know if this will help or even if the scenario fits but without a job (paid or not) how does she purchase things she wants?  My DD had small jobs when she was younger but at 15 when her illness began we made the mistake of giving her anything she wanted just to keep the peace.  We set a bad pattern in place and she had no motivation to work.  My dh and I finally decided we needed to set a boundary here:  We will not give you money for things you WANT, you will need to take care of that yourself.  We continued to take care of her needs but anything above that was her responsiblity.  We did assist her in finding a part time job which was volunteer and the motivation to do this was that we supplemented her income by giving her a weekly allowance.  Once she was doing well at this we then helped her find a part time job.  She now works about 10-14 hours a week in addition to going to college.  She is still responsible for buying her wants, but we don't mind helping her out for something special once in a while. 

I would not jump to think she does not want to offer something to society.  Is there something she has a particular interest in.  During the time that my DD was in her worst depression she volunteered for a LGBT group.  The beginning was difficult getting her to go but she met people and felt like she was making a difference.  This definetly lifted her spirits.  She felt a part of something, she was accepted and she saw that she was capable.  Another thing that she did that she actually enjoyed was vounteering a local animal shelter.  Maybe working with animals that actually need someone might make her feel needed as well. 

Griz

[tightropewalker]

Hi Griz, thanks for your reply, my DD is claiming job seekers allowance, although she shows no interest in looking for a job. She uses this money to buy what she needs, I have offered to top up her money if she could help with a few chores in the house, no luck there though.  We suggested the voluntary work as it was only a couple of days a week and thought she would be more able to cope with this, it seems not though.  I do worry that as she gets older she will have no experiance or references for a potential employer, I guess I have to try and stop looking too far ahead.

She does have an interest in dancing and we have suggested a night class at our local college, thinking it could be good therapy also as it makes her feel good.

[griz]

tightrope:  I think the dance class sounds like a great idea.  It is a start and dance could be very therapeutic for her.  We enrolled my DD when she was 15 in an Art class.  She loves to draw and it was very therapeutic for her. It was once small step toward helping her.  I am not sure if it is like this with all BPD but I have found that in order to move forward we have to do things in small baby steps as not to overwhelm my daughter.  If she becomes overwhelmed than anything we are doing goes back to square one.

Also, don't discount the bullying in school.  My daughter was also bullied in school.  Being a  teen is such a hard time to begin with and when you are faced with being bullied on top it can be devastating.  After my DD was bullied I found that she was always on the defense with people.  She saw everyone as the enemy and thought everyone was out to hurt her, thus she used her defensive attitude to protect herself.  She didn't see that this was impeding her ability to keep friends.  Do you think maybe your daughter might be doing the same? 

Sorry to be jumping around here but another thought I had was, If she takes a dance class could you maybe privately speak to the instructor. When my dd took her first class Art class. I spoke to the professor through email privately.  I explained what DD's issues were and what we were trying to accomplish by having her take a class.  The instructor was so understanding. She showed DD alot of attention at first and applauded her accomplishments and encouraged her to work on her Art.  I don;t believe DD made one friend in that class but she did learn to trust her professor and began looking forward to going to class.  Once the class semester was over she asked to enroll in Part 2 of the class. The professor and I stayed in touch and we decided that the goal would be for her to continue her art but also to interact with some other kids.  She did this slowly by asking DD to do something with another student in the class.  The first time she paired her up with another girl and asked them to walk to Starbucks together to get coffee for the class.  She also asked DD to help other students which was tremendously empowering.  By the end of the second semester she was routinely going to Starbucks after class with some "friends".  For most people this would be a natural progression but it took my DD 24 weeks to get here.  Yes,  you are right... .don't think to far ahead.  It takes our wonderful children much longer to get where they need to go, but I have learned that time and persistence pays off.  It doesn't matter how fast they get there as long as they are on the road.



Griz

[tightropewalker]

Griz you are so right about my DD being on the defensive with everyone and yes I am sure the bullying played a huge part in this.  It sounds like your DD had a wonderful tutor and I will certainly take your advice should my girl decide to enrol on a course. I can imagine your delight at her going to Starbucks with friends  such a small thing for the average person but a massive step for your girl  It seems that everything is just too much effort for my DD though  so I don't hold any real hope of her being tempted to go on a course, though we will continue to encourage her.  I am pinning my hopes on the doctor referring her to adult mental health tomorrow. Has your DD received the dbt therapy? Had my DD been diagnosed sooner then she would of  been receiving the dbt by now but she was discharged just after diagnosis because she turned 19 

[griz]

tightrope:  Yes my daughter and I have been through the DBT program.  The first 6 month cycle was abismal at best.  She hated it and was not very cooperative in individual therapy.  We continued to go to both individual and group even though she complained the entire time but I knew I was getting something out of it.  I was learning the tools I needed to help her.  After the first cycle she decided she did not want to go back to neither group or individual.  I continued to use my skills and also learned a lot from people right here on the board.  She finally, about 6 months later, asked if we could go back.  The second six month cycle she was ready to do the work and I also started seeing an indivdual DBT therapist myself (haha it was actually DD's idea) and it was a great idea.  She was able to help me work on my skills for not only myself but to be a better help to DD.  She also was able to help me set goals for having boundaries and learning how to stick with them.  This was something I was not very good at.  I would set a boundary and DD would break it and I would never really follow through.  This was setting up a bad pattern.  By learning to stick to my boundaries and not give in I was able to help DD better.  Here is a good example:  DD enrolled in 5 classes in her second semester, we talked about it and I thought it was to much but she insisted.  About two weeks into school she started to feel overwhelmed and was thinking about dropping a class. I told her I was fine with it and told her to drop it right away so we would not have to pay for it.  I reminded her a few times and she said she would and I told her that she needed to do it right away and if she didn't she would be responsible for paying for the class if I got charged.  Well, she waited to long and when she dropped it there was no refund.  So I didn't do the whole I told you so bit or get angry I just told her we would have to make arrangements for her to repay the $500.  First she got very angry with me and tried all kinds of excuses. I validated her feelings but restated that it was her responsiblity to take care of it.  She decided she would give me money from her parttime job each week.  Every time she got a check I cashed it for her and I took $25.  When we were down to about $200 she asked if she could do some jobs at home to work off the balance.  I gave her a list of jobs she could do and I would reduce her debt by $25 per week if she got them done.  Each week she moaned a little but I knew I had to stick to my boundaries and make sure she knew there were consequences for her actions.  By the end there was no moaning, she just did what she had to do and I told her how proud I was of her. 

I am not sure where you live but you can look up DBT centers.  I like this better than individual therapists who are trained in DBT and the centers generally have groups which was also so helpful for my Daughter.

Also, don't lose hope just because everything seems to be too much of an effort for your daughter right now.  I can remember when getting out of bed AT ALL was too much of an effort for my daughter.  Is there something that maybe you can do together that she would like?  It doesn't even have to be outside of the house. Anything that brings enjoyment to both of you.It could be cooking or baking or a project or even a puzzle.

Please let us know how things go tomorrow. 

Griz