Me going on a holiday= abandonment?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi again all...

I 'd like to get more insights into BPDs abandonment fears.

Everything was going along ok with my (assumed) BPD ex lover. Although her emotions were volatile, she was very into me and we spoke throughout the day, every day. She even told her family all about me. It seemed she was into me.

And she knew I had an upcoming holiday to Europe planned (approx 2 months after we met). And I remember whenever I spoke about it, she would go quiet... she seemed sad.

I once joked too and said "the politics in this country are driving me crazy! Maybe I won't come back from Europe!"   and she went super quiet and said "... you won't come back?"

And I remember that she even said "I'm going to have to find myself another hot woman!  you're leaving "

And I said "Huh? I am going on a holiday... not leaving!" but she kept referring to it as leaving.    And she said that I would probably find lots of 'hot women' in Europe.

I remember we had a fight and she then avoided me completely. Kept saying she was busy at work (and I know she was hanging out with friends).

Throughout my holiday, I tried to talk to her and she was friendly but then flakey.  BUT... when I returned from my holiday... she told me she misses me!

Is it possible... .that she may have sabotaged us before I went on holidays deliberately to avoid the possibility I may have rejected her while I was away on holiday?

And when I returned home... it was obvious I hadn't rejected her as I was still contacting her. So THEN she told me she misses me!

[Diana82]

Hi again all...

I 'd like to get more insights into BPDs abandonment fears.

Everything was going along ok with my (assumed) BPD ex lover. Although her emotions were volatile, she was very into me and we spoke throughout the day, every day. She even told her family all about me. It seemed she was into me.

And she knew I had an upcoming holiday to Europe planned (approx 2 months after we met). And I remember whenever I spoke about it, she would go quiet... she seemed sad.

I once joked too and said "the politics in this country are driving me crazy! Maybe I won't come back from Europe!"   and she went super quiet and said "... you won't come back?"

And I remember that she even said "I'm going to have to find myself another hot woman!  you're leaving "

And I said "Huh? I am going on a holiday... not leaving!" but she kept referring to it as leaving.    And she said that I would probably find lots of 'hot women' in Europe.

I remember we had a fight and she then avoided me completely. Kept saying she was busy at work (and I know she was hanging out with friends).

Throughout my holiday, I tried to talk to her and she was friendly but then flakey.  BUT... when I returned from my holiday... she told me she misses me!

Is it possible... .that she may have sabotaged us before I went on holidays deliberately to avoid the possibility I may have rejected her while I was away on holiday?

And when I returned home... it was obvious I hadn't rejected her as I was still contacting her. So THEN she told me she misses me!

[Diana82]

I should add... that while I was in Europe, we got into a facebook chat and she asked "so... any new romances? met any hotties over there?  Sorry I am always be nosey"

I remember thinking... why does she want to know if I have any new romances!  I had only been in Europe for 1.5 weeks.

[Cloudy Days]

Is it possible... .that she may have sabotaged us before I went on holidays deliberately to avoid the possibility I may have rejected her while I was away on holiday?

Yes, I think it is something they do. For me it's anytime I am leaving my husband alone for an extended period of time, could be as little as 2 hours. He has a pattern of starting a fight before I leave for pretty much anything. I think it makes them feel like they are the ones pushing you away as their choice. Because the thought of you being away from them and being happy is too hard to deal with for them.

[Diana82]

Hi cloudydays...

interesting. It would explain why she got so defensive when I asked her why she avoided me for weeks!

Surely if you were mad at someone, you'd just say "Hey, I'm sorry you think this. But I was upset at you... ."  instead she lashed out

I kept trying to tell her before I left that it was a holiday. But she was trying to say that I should "enjoy the women and food" in Europe. We were not exclusive, but it was weird how she went from being sad I was 'leaving' to encouraging me to find other women.

[Grey Kitty]

I think you nailed it--going away feels like abandonment and triggers fears... .and the fears lead into bad reactions.

You probably won't be able to predict how it will unfold, but you may discover patterns that are consistent, like Cloudy Days's H starting a fight before she leaves.

Sometimes being clear about when you will return before you leave can help those fears. For example, if you need to take a two-hour timeout, it is a nice bonus to say you will be back in two hours. If you do, make sure you follow through on it. I'd also recommend against saying you will be back "soon" or "later" as you and your pwBPD are likely to have unspoken conflicting definitions for those words.

Are there any lingering problems after you returned from your trip to Europe?

[Diana82]

Hi Greykitty

we had a huge fallout last week.  :'(

Given she had been flakey before and during my holiday, I concluded she was no longer interested in me and it was her coward's way of telling me so.

But when I returned home, she started to be less flakey. She also started liking all my Facebook posts... and then told me she misses me!

At this point, I think I was just really confused and thought she was messing with my head. So over Facebook, I said: "Hey... I'm going to be direct here. Why did you randomly tell me you miss me after you avoided and flaked on me for weeks before I went away? I am confused and this feels like a head game"

She immediately got on the defensive and said "when did I avoid you?" and then started to say I was being 'melodramatic' and that "it's perfectly normal to miss someone if you haven't seen them for ages."  She also added "I do miss you... I miss going to dinners/theatre and films with you and our conversations. But you jump to so many conclusions and say things that cut!"

she also added that I apparently want "all or nothing" and "you can be friends and not see each other everyday"

None of it made sense. Because we were never 'friends'... we had dated and I hadn't seen her for 2 months! I never asked to see her everyday... I only wanted to see her before I went on holidays.

[Grey Kitty]

Sorry to hear that.   

What do you want with her? You say you had dated... .do you want to resume dating? Do you want to be friends?

As for why did she randomly tell you that she missed you after avoiding you for weeks and flaking out? Here's my take:

Sounds like 'normal' BPD behavior, given that they tend to view the world such that their feelings define reality. She feels abandoned by you, so in her mind you are intentionally abandoning her, and what she's doing is a reasonable defense. A bit later, she starts to miss you, and so she acts completely differently. This 180 degree shift with no explanation is a common thing with this disorder. And most likely you will understand it better than she does!

Have you been reading the lessons here? (over in the sidebar ----->> >> There is lots of great material on how this disorder works, and what you can do to better cope with it.

[Diana82]

i was trying to be on peaceful terms with her. I still had feelings for her when I returned home and her "miss you" although it made me confused, made me feel good as well. :/

But now I am not sure it's possible to be friends.

After this terrible convo about her avoiding me, I left it for a week and then called her to apologise for our angry messaging and also clear up I never called her a "Bipolar junkie". That was important to me to do that!

She immediately lashed out on text telling me I regularly insult her and my apology was nasty. She said my words and tone make her feel terrible and then she said "I don't need this. Good bye".

I then asked her what the? and she proceeded to tell me we have nothing in common and I keep insulting her... she can't protect herself from my tone etc. It was so weird!

then she said "I'm, f8cked. Good bye"  and deleted me off facebook. It was dramatic!

the next day after her lash out... she said she was 'devastated" she'd upset me. And she kept apologizing and saying she didn't mean to react but I have a 'knack' for finding her insecurities. She also went onto say I "make her" act defensively and she is "not herself" around me.

Blame game...

I told her we should leave things be for a while as I didn't want to say anything else that might unintentionally hurt her.

Truth is... I am scared!

[Diana82]

I responded to her recent text telling me I make her feel defensive etc by saying "I don't really know what to say. But I did think of you last night when I went to the circus. You should check it out" something friendly like that.

I didn't want to get into more heavy discussions about her issues over text.

[montanesa]

My husband would do this when we were dating and I went back to the US to visit my family.

It stinks, I'm sorry!

[Diana82]

I guess he is your husband though... this was a woman I was only dating for 2 months!

it's interesting that when I come back home... she then misses me! I initially thought this was her playing games... but now I'm thinking that she actually thought I was leaving her and would find someone else - so she avoided me first. But then when it was obvious I didn't and hadn't found anyone else... she says she misses me.

[Grey Kitty]

i was trying to be on peaceful terms with her. I still had feelings for her when I returned home and her "miss you" although it made me confused, made me feel good as well. :/

But now I am not sure it's possible to be friends.

Being friends with a pwBPD is a challenge. Of course, being in a r/s with one is a challenge too.

We have a great workshop on What you need in order to stay with a pwBPD and I recommend you read it. (Along with lots of other good stuff in the lessons.)

If your friendship is a notch or two lower than a romantic r/s, it makes things a little bit lighter for you, but only a little.

There are several people here on this board who have tried to stay in a friendship with a pwBPD. Most of them had broken up, perhaps one or two had never been romantic. Some are now happy with the relationship. Others struggle more, or gave up.

What I've seen in all of them is that the pwBPD pulls them in and pushes them out at levels that aren't normal, healthy, or appropriate for a non-romantic r/s. Actually it is very similar to what a pwBPD does in a romantic r/s.

You can't stop her from doing this stuff. What you can do is get far better at coping with it, recognizing what is her stuff, and letting her deal with it, and not letting it tie you up in knots. No, it isn't easy to do, but it is very worthwhile--These skills will help you in many other parts of your life, no matter what happens with this friendship.

 Hang in there!

GK

[an0ught]

Hi Diana82,

first - good that you stuck to your initial plan and visited us here in Europe! Time apart can be a stabilizing factor in a BPD relationship as it helps to maintain a sense of self. Yes, abandonment kicks in but giving into that means not learning to deal with it.

And she knew I had an upcoming holiday to Europe planned (approx 2 months after we met). And I remember whenever I spoke about it, she would go quiet... she seemed sad.

I once joked too and said "the politics in this country are driving me crazy! Maybe I won't come back from Europe!" and she went super quiet and said "... you won't come back?"

And I remember that she even said "I'm going to have to find myself another hot woman!  you're leaving "

It is good that she is expressing her fear so clearly so it can be dealt with... .

... .dealt with by her.

And I said "Huh? I am going on a holiday... not leaving!" but she kept referring to it as leaving.    And she said that I would probably find lots of 'hot women' in Europe.

It may be useful to review the material in the LESSONS on validation and invalidation. While you understandably simply focus on the facts in your initial reaction on the emotional side our reaction is invalidating. And being invalidated she gets deeper into her fear. Letting her explain and active listening for what ("what" never "why" at why puts her on the defensive!) causes her to feel that way may have been one strategy to deal with the situation. SET would have been another good strategy to deal with her in that moment.

I remember we had a fight and she then avoided me completely. Kept saying she was busy at work (and I know she was hanging out with friends).

Throughout my holiday, I tried to talk to her and she was friendly but then flakey.  BUT... when I returned from my holiday... she told me she misses me!

Is it possible... .that she may have sabotaged us before I went on holidays deliberately to avoid the possibility I may have rejected her while I was away on holiday?

And when I returned home... it was obvious I hadn't rejected her as I was still contacting her. So THEN she told me she misses me!

It is good that you both were able to keep talking. When traveling you see all the new stuff and are busy. The one at home has more time to dwell and be sad. Of course she misses you.

[Diana82]

Hi there

Thank for your comments.

I guess at the time, I had no idea she could be BPD so didn't know about validation. I thought my saying that I'm only going on holiday and won't be off with other women would be enough.

My issue now is that I asked her why she had avoided me and now misses me. I had been upset and confused over it. And perhaps I came across as very direct in my question

And this set her of. She lashed out and accused me of being nasty and insulting her- when all I asked is why she avoided me.  

Is it possible, that she was THAT defensive because she doesn't like to be pulled up on her abandonment fears or tendencies to avoid people?

So to defend herself, she had to make this a drama and lash out at me for asking her this question?

She made herself the victim. When actually- she had avoided me and hurt me!

[Ckb66]

Last January when my other half was in a confident and inclusive mood we agreed to go to Blackpool for a week with my family.  We paid for it etc, talked about it.  However, when it got closer she said she couldn't go.  My sisters boyfriend wanted to play cards one night ( on a different holiday) he didn't agree on her rules so she ran off.  Just like that.  I had to go, leaving them wondering what the heck was going on.  As blackpoll approached she cancelled the dog sitter and stayed at home.  I got 3miles away and she rang, missing me, wanting me to stay.  I find it almost impossible to break promises and so I stuck my ground.  I was needed, i had made a commitment... .well we had actually.  For the whole week my hone seemed to be glued to my ear.  She wouldn't get up.  I think she drank most days.  She rang at ungodly hours, she thought I was out looking for her replacement.  When I got home she acknowledged how jealous she had been of my family, especially my younger sister.  This year she is coming to Blackpool.  I know she could do the same again, but this time she knows what it is like to be without me.  Apart from that week we have never before or since been apart by choice.  Going to work is a strain every day for her because I am going too.  I know exactly what it feels like, but I did find that her texting was way better than a phone call.  It is short, you can do something else and you can easily consider your reply.  To be honest I hate mobiles as they allow her to stay on the phone so long, then I alway feel bad saying I need to go. Text is much better.

[Diana82]

it's all very interesting stuff... .

I had every intention of staying in touch with her while I was away in Europe. I had no intention of hooking up with other women.

I was going to even call her once and regularly text her even though she wasn't my girlfriend.

I wish she had known that... . 

instead it does seem she thought I wouldn't come back or would find some 'hottie' in Europe and leave her.

This is why I think she went away with her ex and then also got a new casual lady while I was in Europe (I found out).

[Ckb66]

What is the state of play now if she has her other ex and a casual new woman?  Surely the needs and demands on you have been transferred to someone else.  I am not sure if you want or can have a friendship with this ex though.  My partner has a history of blocking out people who abandon her, whether real or perceived.  Not sure if that is part of it all or just her.