I need space: How to avoid getting pulled back in when I'm on the pedestal

[HopefulDad]

I've decided I need some space to figure things out.  I'm still in the house, sleeping on the couch, to primarily keep a closer tab on my BPDw interaction with the kids which can be unreasonably contentious.  My wife and I are not talking as it is mutual right now.  But based on past history, I know what will come within the next few weeks:

Wife will come to me, offer a big hug, say something like, "No matter what our differences are, we can work through them.  I love you and all I want to do is make you happy."  Then we'll have a talk about better communication, she'll acknowledge she "needs to work on her anger", we'll make resolutions to follow some "plan" or "script" when we hit rough spots and suddenly all is well again... .

... .for about a week until the next disagreement triggers her and we're back in hell.

Since I need my space, I don't need that.  So I hope I have the strength when she comes to me like that to just say, "I'm very glad you've come to me to reconcile.  I would also like to reconcile.  Yet, I need some personal space right now.  I need to focus on making myself happy right now and time alone will help best with that."  I'm sure she'll turn that against me and try to guilt me back in with statements like, "You're quitting on us," or "Well, seems like *I'm* the only one trying here," blah blah blah, but I just want to find the resolve to withstand that.

Anyone have good success stories to share on this?

[lockedout]

All I can say is that the prognosis isn't good. Mine was the one who suggested I do what I need to do to make me happy, but she would still complain about how unhappy I made her. She would usually back off for a while then when she saw that I was getting the least bit of my bearings and feeling better, the next assault would begin. It was a push-pull dynamic that went right to the end. Every fallout was worse than the last. She was OK with the "alone time" because she was the one suggesting it. Mine was spent readin self-improvement books on how to be that elusive "good husband". She would stop by for a drink after work and show up at home at around 3am on weeknights. It's too hard to predict what yours might say, but she won't be agreeable to it (passive-aggressive is a likely reaction) because it's not her idea.

I know that you want to work it out and I don't know your situation enough to call it one way or the other. But you sleeping on the couch and you and the wife not speaking are not the impression of marriage that you want your kids to have. The older they get and the longer this goes on, the harder it will be on them when the other shoe does finally drop.

[HopefulDad]

All I can say is that the prognosis isn't good. Mine was the one who suggested I do what I need to do to make me happy, but she would still complain about how unhappy I made her. She would usually back off for a while then when she saw that I was getting the least bit of my bearings and feeling better, the next assault would begin. It was a push-pull dynamic that went right to the end. Every fallout was worse than the last. She was OK with the "alone time" because she was the one suggesting it. Mine was spent readin self-improvement books on how to be that elusive "good husband". She would stop by for a drink after work and show up at home at around 3am on weeknights. It's too hard to predict what yours might say, but she won't be agreeable to it (passive-aggressive is a likely reaction) because it's not her idea.

I know that you want to work it out and I don't know your situation enough to call it one way or the other. But you sleeping on the couch and you and the wife not speaking are not the impression of marriage that you want your kids to have. The older they get and the longer this goes on, the harder it will be on them when the other shoe does finally drop.

Thanks for sharing your story.  So as expected, my wife did come around to "make up" on Saturday morning so it was then I issued my request for personal space.  And then the crap hit the fan... .as expected.  She deregulated like crazy and I of course left the abuse.  Every time I returned, she would start in again.  So I left again.

Finally, on Monday we had a good email exchange and came to a truce.  My wife sent me links to the idea of a "controlled separation" and after reading them, they put into words exactly what I wanted.  Since a respected website put this idea out there, my wife was more accomodating to it.  Like you, I have concerns about how the kids view our arrangement and even the websites advise physically separating so we'll see how it goes.

In parallel, my wife made an appointment with our thereapist for herself and without any prompting by me.  I view this very positively.

[lockedout]

Some good could come out of it; the best thing is that you didn't buy right into the truce. A therapist can be good or bad. BPDers are notorious for alienating their therapists unless they're right in their corner. As soon as they find out there's more to the therapy (introspect, seeing the situation from another's point of view, compromising, committing to change, etc)than simply showing up and talk to someone who will empathize with every little thing, no matter how cognitively distorted, they seem to not get around to making another appointment.

Another thing to look out for is that they'll take one little thing that the therapist says about you (simply based on what she says) and she'll use it against you as the basis for all of her problems. At least that's what I grew accustomed to.

[HopefulDad]

Her therapist doubles as our marriage counselor who is a CBT and trained in DBT.  He's the one who diagnosed her as BPD (to me only, not to her... .yet) and has gotten her to look at herself, her childhood, why she rages and the like.  He makes no bones about her behavior being "emotionally violent" and she accepts that... .until it doesn't suit her.  But at least he can crack through her reluctant shell from time to time.  I've seen him use emotional validation with her, but try to separate feelings from thoughts (CBT) and it is this point she struggles with.

When we were in therapy together, she responded very well to him.  When she decided to stop because she felt "she learned enough", that's when things started going downhill.  I hope she chooses continued therapy one-on-one with him.

[lockedout]

You have a better therapist than I had. When I looked into BPD the first time; before I left, I fired off an e-mail to him and snuck in to our joint meeting a little early to confide in what I sent him. Not only did he never look at the e-mail, he denied any possibility that she could have BPD. He said [when he pulled out his DSM-IV textbook]that because she held a steady job, wasn't addicted to alcohol or drugs, and didn't jump from one partner to another [he found out after the separation that this was her second marriage and I met her right after the divorce and she vilified the guy] that she didn't meet any criteria. Several more months of hell and a separation later, he simply told me not to dwell on that and work on healing myself.

BPD is usually marginalized because of its volatile nature and diagnosis is withheld because treatment is not covered by any insurance. Not to mention therapists need to make money and that doesn't happen by losing patients. If you have a therapist who is willing to sink his teeth into it (or wasn't a flipping idiot like mine; nice guy though), your marriage may have a chance. Just keep her going. I tried to get mine back in, but she said the women in her abuse group said that's a form of abuse, so that idea was out.

[HopefulDad]

Considering how many therapists will *not* work with BPD patients, don't know how to diagnose it or even don't believe there is such a thing as BPD, I know I'm lucky to have found my therapist.

That being said, my wife informed me yesterday that while she's meeting with him next week, it's for one session only to discuss the controlled separation I've requested.  After that, she wants to find a new therapist "who will be a better fit".  My fear is that she'll find one who is clueless to pick up cues on BPD and we're back to square one.  Out of my hands, though.

[lockedout]

The "better fit" for her will be one that drinks her Kool-Aid. She'll seek out one who will empathize with everything she says, no matter how distorted. For her, any suggestion that there are things she needs to change is grounds for quickly terminating the relationship with that therapists. In the black-and-white world of BPD there is no compromise. There is either "good" (whatever that is, BPD or no BPD) and "bad". There is no such thing as changing something for another person; especially a "bad" person who put them in the turmoil they're in from all their cognitive distortions. There's definitely NEVER any admission that they could be doing something wrong: this would make them a "bad" and "unlovable" person.  Because someone in the relationship has to be "bad" and it can't be her... .and "bad" people can never be "good"... .you can only guess who the "bad" person is.

to tell you the truth, I'll be surprised if she even makes it to that appointment; ie some urgent matter comes up and she cancels with the "intent to reschedule". She knows therapists don't like to hear that you are only going to talk about one minor aspect of a much larger picture.

[HopefulDad]

We did talk about her intent to find another therapist as "not looking for a cheerleader" and she said of course not, but we'll see.

And indeed the excuses for pushing out appointments or cancelling them have come in the past, so I agree it may not be shocking if she does it again.

However, her fear of abandonment may push her to keep such appointments.  We're currently separated and although I made it clear that even if she seeks help, that is no guarantee I'm coming back, she may figure that going to therapy is a show of good will that may cause me to reconsider.

[lockedout]

She'll do it to say that she's going to therapy and "working on change" but you're still the same. I'm sur eI also don't have to tell you that you probably don't want to be with someone simply out of their fear of abandonment.

[HopefulDad]

I don't want to stay with someone who only will be nice to pull me back in out of fear of abandonment.  This is why I've separated.  But if this fear of abandonment can at least work towards getting her to stick to therapy, I consider it baby steps towards potential progress.

[lockedout]

What are you doing for therapy? The dysfunction is mostly in the BPDer, but not entirely. Before you met her, you had an identity. You were you and had no shame or guilt for it, even when you messed up. There was nobody to crucify you for their perceived hurt: mostly things that if you were observing as a single man back in the day would say "that b***h would be out the door without a second thought. You lost your identity and dropped your boundaries.

You now know that how she treats you is wrong and that she shows little to no accountability (actually better than I was doing up until separation). You also know that she has to change and that this change has to be sustained to keep the marriage going. But you also need to work on getting your sense of "self'" (you-ness) back because regardless of the outcome, you are going to need you mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual strength to get through it. Use the separation time to build it up. I can't predict your outcome but I can guarantee that it's not an easy process.

[waverider]

One of the issues you will have with this arrangement is a pwBPDs lack of consistency, fear of lack of control, and intrinsic desire for all or nothing. You being there, but not completely there, will run counter to their order of things. Whatever has been agreed will not be upheld due to lack of consistency. The fact that this is your choice will trigger her lack of control buttons.

It is hard to see it lasting for any length of time.

Once you are past this it is likely to be thrown back at you in a twisted way.

[HopefulDad]

What are you doing for therapy? The dysfunction is mostly in the BPDer, but not entirely. Before you met her, you had an identity. You were you and had no shame or guilt for it, even when you messed up. There was nobody to crucify you for their perceived hurt: mostly things that if you were observing as a single man back in the day would say "that b***h would be out the door without a second thought. You lost your identity and dropped your boundaries.

You now know that how she treats you is wrong and that she shows little to no accountability (actually better than I was doing up until separation). You also know that she has to change and that this change has to be sustained to keep the marriage going. But you also need to work on getting your sense of "self'" (you-ness) back because regardless of the outcome, you are going to need you mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual strength to get through it. Use the separation time to build it up. I can't predict your outcome but I can guarantee that it's not an easy process.

Indeed I've been seeing my own therapist.  I've taken a long hard look in the mirror in my role in how things got to this point and why I overlooked signs from the get-go.  And I'm definitely taking this time apart to find myself.  We all make sacrifices for our spouses and our family, but taking it several steps too far is something that I have to own and fix.  I'm sure it will take a long time to get myself back to the person I want to be.

[HopefulDad]

One of the issues you will have with this arrangement is a pwBPDs lack of consistency, fear of lack of control, and intrinsic desire for all or nothing. You being there, but not completely there, will run counter to their order of things. Whatever has been agreed will not be upheld due to lack of consistency. The fact that this is your choice will trigger her lack of control buttons.

It is hard to see it lasting for any length of time.

Once you are past this it is likely to be thrown back at you in a twisted way.

Oh, I agree.  I've been playing out this scenario in my mind ever since I thought about this arrangement.  The issue even came up yesterday as my wife is confused by the mixed messages and I suggested a clean break to clear things up.  I suspect more such talk as well.

[HopefulDad]

One of the issues you will have with this arrangement is a pwBPDs lack of consistency, fear of lack of control, and intrinsic desire for all or nothing. You being there, but not completely there, will run counter to their order of things. Whatever has been agreed will not be upheld due to lack of consistency. The fact that this is your choice will trigger her lack of control buttons.

It is hard to see it lasting for any length of time.

Once you are past this it is likely to be thrown back at you in a twisted way.

Oh, I agree.  I've been playing out this scenario in my mind ever since I thought about this arrangement.  The issue even came up yesterday as my wife is confused by the mixed messages and I suggested a clean break to clear things up.  I suspect more such talk as well.

Well... .that took long 

I'm looking to move out.  My wife continues to play "20 questions" with my desire for a "healing separation" or "controlled separation".  She just parses every word out of my mouth, looking for a "gotcha!" moment to pounce on and question my committment to our marriage, even though I've made it clear in a dozen different ways that I think space is best for us to work on ourselves before we can work on the marriage.  I'm just tired of it.

And as was said ealier: One could see this coming.

[HopefulDad]

to tell you the truth, I'll be surprised if she even makes it to that appointment; ie some urgent matter comes up and she cancels with the "intent to reschedule". She knows therapists don't like to hear that you are only going to talk about one minor aspect of a much larger picture.

And yes, she did cancel the appointment.  She looked up a negative yelp review of the therapist and sent it to me to validate why she doesn't want to see him anymore ("I feel I could have written this same review".  And as far as looking for others?  "Nobody is taking new clients around the holidays.  Plus, I'm busy."

Shocker, I know.

[waverider]

The frustrating part is the futility of it all is just too predictable.

A pwBPD's desire to do absolutely nothing constructive to improve their lot is just infuriating at times.

This is why focus on us, as we are the only ones we can make do anything...

[HopefulDad]

The frustrating part is the futility of it all is just too predictable.

A pwBPD's desire to do absolutely nothing constructive to improve their lot is just infuriating at times.

This is why focus on us, as we are the only ones we can make do anything...

At this point I'm just laughing to myself at the whole thing.

I'm also chuckling to myself at her smugness... ."I'm waiting you to join me in working out our problems together.  When you're done making this about you, then we can make this about us."  Pot, meet kettle.

[waverider]

You need to keep a black sense of humour