Ability to bare one's soul to a BPD SO

[PuzzledMate]

Hi All.  There is something that I noticed after going to a therapist.  No matter how much help my BPDw or she gets help, there is going to be something missing.

I cannot bare my soul to her.  In fact, it seem the more intimate or personal the information is that I try to confide in her, the more she uses it against me.  Either that or she takes on the problem entirely as if it is happening to her.

For example:  One of the people that works for me is having an issue that is affecting their work.  I was told by my Director to start documenting these behaviors.  Literally the next day my wife got in trouble at work.  She told them she was paranoid that they were documenting her and wanting to fire her.  She is a model employee and works hard.  She rarely stays at jobs for more than 2 years but she is good at what she does.  She made a huge ruckus at work and they wrote her up because she had a meltdown in front of patients! 

This is one of many, many examples I can give.  It has the effect kind of like reading WebMD for symptoms and you think you're dying.  If I mention any problem I am having, it suddenly happens to her.

And another thing.  I know it's a common topic here about getting no help when you are sick.  My wife takes it a step further and comes up with a sickness that is worse than what I have at the moment.  Last weekend, I had a cold.  Saturday night she started saying she was vomiting, headache and lot of other stuff going on with her.  She also said she had a fever.  I took her temperature when she was laying there using a forehead thermometer.  It read normal.  She said it must be broken.  What?

I know my experience is not unique but it is literally like living with a 3 year old.

[popeye6031]

Yes PuzzleMate, very apt that you say a 3 year old as that is certainly what it can feel like.

People suffering from BPD find it hard to empathise with what others are feeling and tend to make everything about how it affects them.

My fiancee will tell me something bad that happened to someone and within the same sentence make it all about her.  It is bizarre seeing it in action.  Or she will do something nice for someone and advertise it to the world via Facebook to make sure she gets praise.

It sounds like your wife is quite high functioning in her work life, with the occasional mishap. 

I guess you are on this board because you are unsure what your future to be.

I know I certainly do.

[PuzzledMate]

I can honestly say I feel like my wife and I have not resolved a single thing during our entire marriage.  I'm not even thinking negatively either.  I can't think of one time.  If I think we resolved something, it comes up a very short time later as if we never had discussed it before.  We start from square one and if I mention that we have already talked it through, she will get mad that she is wasting my time.     That isn't the point, I just had already moved on.  I feel like I need to take notes or make a note of when we discussed issues so I can refer back to them to get the conversation over quicker.  That is so sad to even type that sentence.

I once sat her down to tell her that I was not happy and gave very explicit details as to why I was unhappy.  70% or so of it was due to her but there were some things that were also causing my unhappiness.  She did not hear the other 30%, nor did she try to fix what I was unhappy about at all.  She crumbled and said I hated her.  I said if I hated her, I would not take the time to tell her what was bothering me.  She said I did it to manipulate her so she would (and she says this constantly) "Act, walk, talk and breathe correctly' so I wouldn't leave her.  I was flabberghasted.  She then followed up with the only reason I told her these things was to be mean to her and hurt her feelings.  Why would I do that?  Why would anyone do that?

3 year old.  It was then I realized I had very adult problems and situations I had to deal with.  All of this and trying to get the support of someone who had the rationale of a child. 

Typing all of this out makes me think I am not on the right board already.  Sad sad day.  I tried so hard to keep it together for me and for us.  But, it is only temporary it seems.   :'(

[ednapontellier]

Puzzledmate-

My marriage sounds just like yours - I have a high functioning, professionally successful husband that also changes jobs every couple of years (every boss is a jerk... .).  I finally got so discouraged recently that I told my husband things needed to change, or we would have to separate. Take a guess as to what he chose? It wasn't therapy or change unfortunately, but honestly I didn't have much hope those would work... .It's sad, but what kind of marriage is it when your spouse is the last person you can confide in? Hopefully you have better luck than I did.

[PuzzledMate]

Oh my gosh, I'm sorry to hear what his choice was.  That has to be tough.

I recommended therapy for us about 2 months ago.  She said the counselor would probably hear she had BPD and tell me to get out or run.  Or he/she wouldn't like her and be mean.

So, indirectly she chose to keep things as they are.  She isn't opposed to it but doesn't think it will work.

When she went to individual therapy, she was on Lexipro.  It actually worked wonders.  Those were the best 6 months of my marriage!  But, it stopped working and she got worse after a while.  Frequent rages and any problem that would come up she would tell me to handle it because whatever it was made her have panic attacks.  They were more like tantrums.

At that time, I set a deadline to leave her if things did not improve.  That deadline is 11/18/2013.  I have an appointment with my therapist on that day.  We are going over pros and cons of my marriage and how I feel about things overall.  Not that day, not that week but overall.  I can tell you that things don't look or feel good to me.  That scares the crap out of me.

[maxsterling]

Definitely agree. 

I started dating my girlfriend because she seemed to be realistic and have an understanding that we all have issues.  I felt she was someone I could be open with.

Little did I know, she used what I confided in her against me a few months later the first time I experienced her rage.  And it hurt - BADLY.

Since then I have been more closed off with what is going on in my life, because if she doesn't use it against me, she claims it "triggers" her.  My sister in law attempted suicide a few weeks ago.  That "triggered" her.  If I have a bad day at work, she will say I hate my job and need a new one.  If I talk about my parents being happy, that makes her sad.  So, I've kept quiet, and now she gets triggered because I am closed off.

I find myself finding other friends and family to confide in.  And sometimes, that feels wrong, like I am "emotionally cheating".  But I know I can't confide in her, or I risk a rage. 

It's a crappy, crappy feeling.

[an0ught]

Hi PuzzledMate,

this is, well puzzling. One aspect of it may be fuzzy, twisted and projecting thinking on her side that causes her to act out on things in her mind. The other aspect, the one you are probably mainly concerned is about her internalizing so strongly anything you may say. So much so that you dare not to speak your mind. This second part may well be related to enmeshment and weak boundaries on her side. There is a workshop related to this topic here: TOOLS: Dealing with Enmeshment and Codependence.

And then there is a third aspect. You wanting to bare your soul. You wanting to be very close to her. You wanting to drop your boundaries. Again, check out the workshop above. Weak boundaries allowing emotions easily moving from one person to the other are a big factor in the relationship dysfunction with a pwBPD. A pwBPD is particularly vulnerable to foreign emotional influence as they are struggling already with the basic task of keeping their own emotions in check.

Can you think of a grey area between "baring your soul" and "not sharing anything"? Could you imaging making some sharing less emotional using "SET"?

[PuzzledMate]

Thank you.

[hergestridge]

I can honestly say I feel like my wife and I have not resolved a single thing during our entire marriage.  I'm not even thinking negatively either.  I can't think of one time.  If I think we resolved something, it comes up a very short time later as if we never had discussed it before.  We start from square one and if I mention that we have already talked it through, she will get mad that she is wasting my time.     That isn't the point, I just had already moved on.  I feel like I need to take notes or make a note of when we discussed issues so I can refer back to them to get the conversation over quicker.  That is so sad to even type that sentence.

Been there. My wive does exactly the same thing. 20 years and I'm still not sure if she actually forgets or if she brings up things again and again as part of a "campaign". She doesn't seem to understand what an agreement means. Once her feelings change she just brings up the (already resovled) question again.

I once sat her down to tell her that I was not happy and gave very explicit details as to why I was unhappy.  70% or so of it was due to her but there were some things that were also causing my unhappiness.  She did not hear the other 30%, nor did she try to fix what I was unhappy about at all.  She crumbled and said I hated her.  I said if I hated her, I would not take the time to tell her what was bothering me.  She said I did it to manipulate her so she would (and she says this constantly) "Act, walk, talk and breathe correctly' so I wouldn't leave her.  I was flabberghasted.  She then followed up with the only reason I told her these things was to be mean to her and hurt her feelings.  Why would I do that?  Why would anyone do that?

Been there too. Had that exact conversation many times.

She can admit to me that she crosses my boundaries every day because she can't control her feelings. She admit that she say mean things and that she won't say she's sorry. But if I point out the obvious - how it makes me feel - then she's all suicidal.

She's like a child. She wants me to love her unconditionally and she wants me to be there for her just in case she needs me. It's like parent-child relationship. The parent keeps a mask on for the child and doesn't share his innermost feelings. The child can't bear that burden, and I think it's the same thing with the borderline person.

When I have occasionally "bared my soul" regarding matters not related to my wife and her BPD the results have been disasterous. As some else said, she actaully used things against me. Not in a manipulative way, but it's like she's disturbed, pained or just annoyed by the things I tell her about myself and demand that I immediately "fix" things. And the things I bring up are of course those few things I can't "fix", otherwise I would have done that to begin with. If I tell her about fears, she uses them to outweigh her own BPD ("... .who are you too judge? You have problems too!) even if the comparison is totally irrelevant. If I tell her about hopes and dreams, she feels preassured and excluded. And she keeps bringing up the stuff I tell her again and again. She can't just listen, understand and then go on with her own life. At worst she wants me to "seek help" and start insinuating that I am mentally ill, which is far from the truth.

I have to explain to her again and again that ordinary people have problems, worries and fears too. Sometimes stuff that never goes away, that they live with their entire lives. She really has this black/white thinking when it comes to mental health issues too. It's "us and them", "the sick and the well".

[maxen]

I feel like I need to take notes or make a note of when we discussed issues so I can refer back to them to get the conversation over quicker.  That is so sad to even type that sentence.

hi puzzledmate. in my experience, bringing evidence to bear on something we already discussed resulted in accusations of "remembering things" and "being argumentative". these were cited as two of the reasons she left. how is it possible to develop a deep relationship with someone if that person can't, for whatever reason (including the overwhelming immediacy of BPD emotions), accept the sincerity of what we've said?

I once sat her down to tell her that I was not happy and gave very explicit details as to why I was unhappy.

this would be the mature and honest thing to do. unfortunately my w solved our problems not by telling me how she felt but by starting a relationship behind my back and leaving.

i know you have a big day coming up monday. i wish you all the strength. (i've sent a pm about it.)

[PuzzledMate]

I can honestly say I feel like my wife and I have not resolved a single thing during our entire marriage.  I'm not even thinking negatively either.  I can't think of one time.  If I think we resolved something, it comes up a very short time later as if we never had discussed it before.  We start from square one and if I mention that we have already talked it through, she will get mad that she is wasting my time.     That isn't the point, I just had already moved on.  I feel like I need to take notes or make a note of when we discussed issues so I can refer back to them to get the conversation over quicker.  That is so sad to even type that sentence.

Been there. My wive does exactly the same thing. 20 years and I'm still not sure if she actually forgets or if she brings up things again and again as part of a "campaign". She doesn't seem to understand what an agreement means. Once her feelings change she just brings up the (already resovled) question again.

I once sat her down to tell her that I was not happy and gave very explicit details as to why I was unhappy.  70% or so of it was due to her but there were some things that were also causing my unhappiness.  She did not hear the other 30%, nor did she try to fix what I was unhappy about at all.  She crumbled and said I hated her.  I said if I hated her, I would not take the time to tell her what was bothering me.  She said I did it to manipulate her so she would (and she says this constantly) "Act, walk, talk and breathe correctly' so I wouldn't leave her.  I was flabberghasted.  She then followed up with the only reason I told her these things was to be mean to her and hurt her feelings.  Why would I do that?  Why would anyone do that?

Been there too. Had that exact conversation many times.

She can admit to me that she crosses my boundaries every day because she can't control her feelings. She admit that she say mean things and that she won't say she's sorry. But if I point out the obvious - how it makes me feel - then she's all suicidal.

She's like a child. She wants me to love her unconditionally and she wants me to be there for her just in case she needs me. It's like parent-child relationship. The parent keeps a mask on for the child and doesn't share his innermost feelings. The child can't bear that burden, and I think it's the same thing with the borderline person.

When I have occasionally "bared my soul" regarding matters not related to my wife and her BPD the results have been disasterous. As some else said, she actaully used things against me. Not in a manipulative way, but it's like she's disturbed, pained or just annoyed by the things I tell her about myself and demand that I immediately "fix" things. And the things I bring up are of course those few things I can't "fix", otherwise I would have done that to begin with. If I tell her about fears, she uses them to outweigh her own BPD ("... .who are you too judge? You have problems too!) even if the comparison is totally irrelevant. If I tell her about hopes and dreams, she feels preassured and excluded. And she keeps bringing up the stuff I tell her again and again. She can't just listen, understand and then go on with her own life. At worst she wants me to "seek help" and start insinuating that I am mentally ill, which is far from the truth.

I have to explain to her again and again that ordinary people have problems, worries and fears too. Sometimes stuff that never goes away, that they live with their entire lives. She really has this black/white thinking when it comes to mental health issues too. It's "us and them", "the sick and the well".

Incredible.  It's like you have bugged my house and know what goes on here too.  So much commonality.  It gives me the chills.

So, if you bring up past mistakes or situations with her does it go like this?

Her bad thing is brought up by you but not in a malicious way:  you are 'throwing it in her face'!

She brings up something bad about you in the past:  She is just reminding you that you are not perfect.

Sound familiar to anyone?  I can't seem to get past this conversation.  I can't bring anything up that has happened unless it involved something bad about me.

[hergestridge]

Actually, there is no nice enough way to bring something up. And it's like pulling a tooth everytime. She goes "Why are you doing this to me?", but I'm just compensating for her lack of repair work in our relationship.

She almost never brings up things that I have done in the past because she doesn't remember what I've done.

When she has bad stuff to say about me it's one of these two situations:

1. She is hurt by something I've said and goes "... .you're no better" and then bring up something most irrelevant (clutching at straws type stuff).

2. She is dysregulating and projecting on me. She's confrontative and basically out pick a fight. The makes a big affair out of some minor issue or some perceived injustice in the relationship. But it's never really about me. After a while of going on about having to do 53% of the dishes the past week, she ends up going on about her not having enough room, not enough time or something like that. Or about her not feeling supported by me, not feeling loved by me, our relationship not being as good as everyone elses. Many hurtful things are said. None of the things said are taken back, and in a day or two she's fine and dandy again and has forgotten everything she said.

My real faults and flaws (and I know them!) she hasn't noticed at all. It's heartbreaking to realize how self-contained she is.

But as you have noticed: reciprocity doesn't exist in BPD-land. One set of rules for her, one set of rules for you.

Incredible.  It's like you have bugged my house and know what goes on here too.  So much commonality.  It gives me the chills.

So, if you bring up past mistakes or situations with her does it go like this?

Her bad thing is brought up by you but not in a malicious way:  you are 'throwing it in her face'!

She brings up something bad about you in the past:  She is just reminding you that you are not perfect.

Sound familiar to anyone?  I can't seem to get past this conversation.  I can't bring anything up that has happened unless it involved something bad about me.

[maxen]

When she has bad stuff to say about me it's one of these two situations:

1. She is hurt by something I've said and goes "... .you're no better" and then bring up something most irrelevant (clutching at straws type stuff).

2. She is dysregulating and projecting on me. She's confrontative and basically out pick a fight. The makes a big affair out of some minor issue or some perceived injustice in the relationship. But it's never really about me. After a while of going on about having to do 53% of the dishes the past week, she ends up going on about her not having enough room, not enough time or something like that. Or about her not feeling supported by me, not feeling loved by me, our relationship not being as good as everyone elses. Many hurtful things are said. None of the things said are taken back, and in a day or two she's fine and dandy again and has forgotten everything she said.

My real faults and flaws (and I know them!) she hasn't noticed at all. It's heartbreaking to realize how self-contained she is.

that sums up pretty well what my w's approach to me was like. the bit in bold is more or less a quote. she never noticed my real faults either, and it made me feel like i wasn't being paid attention to. frankly, if she loved me she'd have been critical in a more substantial way.