Kids of pwBPD

[State85]

I wonder how children of pwBPD are affected. My uBPDexgf has two boys both 7 years old. She is divorced. When we were in a r/s, I witnessed some pretty chaotic and loud exchanges between her and the kids. One episode got so loud that I went to see what was going on, she was yelling and cussing at one of them as he was crying and scared on her bed. I tried to get between her and him, and she hit me to get to him….she ultimately had him, what appeared to be, pinned to the floor. I pulled her off. All this over something that should not have warranted this type of behavior. Later, she showed no remorse. You would think she would be embarrassed, but no. She started in on me.

Her kids are a handful, as I have witnessed. They do not behave, and have been known to throw fits if they don’t get what they want. Even hitting and throwing things at her.

It is sad, but I wonder how they will end up.

[Turkish]

I wonder how children of pwBPD are affected. My uBPDexgf has two boys both 7 years old. She is divorced. When we were in a r/s, I witnessed some pretty chaotic and loud exchanges between her and the kids. One episode got so loud that I went to see what was going on, she was yelling and cussing at one of them as he was crying and scared on her bed. I tried to get between her and him, and she hit me to get to him….she ultimately had him, what appeared to be, pinned to the floor. I pulled her off. All this over something that should not have warranted this type of behavior. Later, she showed no remorse. You would think she would be embarrassed, but no. She started in on me.

Her kids are a handful, as I have witnessed. They do not behave, and have been known to throw fits if they don’t get what they want. Even hitting and throwing things at her.

It is sad, but I wonder how they will end up.

Likely disordered. I fear for my son, since his mother has core feelings of distrust and devaluation of men (due to her father). I've already seen a few signs... .but at least my X now tells me to call her out if I see or hear something she is doing.  This post might be more appropriate to the parenting board, as members there are likely going through something similar. Here is an article:

How a Mother with Borderline Personality Disorder Affects Her Children

I already see signs of ADD with our S. Not sure if it is genetic, or due to this mom's behavior. She is very loving to him most of the time, but I am so caught up in the FOG now, I am probably not seeing things clearly. My mom showed me BPD traits as I grew up (push-pull, anger, black/white thinking). People who have known me since my teenage years (I'm in my early 40s) are pretty surprised I'm as well adjusted as I am. So I am, sometimes... .and now this drama *sigh*

[nevaeh]

I have stayed with uBPDh for 18 years.  I have D16, S12, and S9.  Kids have all been impacted differently. 

D16 has watched me put up with H's ridiculous behavior for so many years that I now think it is impacting her "desire" to get into any kind of relationship whatsoever.  There are a couple of boys her age who want to go out with her but she says she is very tormented "in her head" about whether she should go out with them or not.  She is a beautiful, smart, mature, and independent young lady.  I know she absolutely will not put up with anything from a boy.  Unfortunately, so much so, that I'm lately afraid that she is going to have a hard time finding anyone unless they are perfect (which we all know doesn't exist).  D16 has been asking me to leave H for the past 3-4 years.  She knows of my plans to divorce in the next month or so.

S12 has suffered the most.  H has literally zero patience for S12.  S12 is my "high maintenance" child.  He sounds like your ex's boys.  Very unruly, unreasonable, defiant, you name it.  He is not easy, and I admit that.  However, starting at about the age of two, H would yell and scream at our middle son.  He would make him cry so hard that he would vomit. Also over stupid things like refusing to brush his teeth, not getting off the computer, forgetting to turn a light off, talking back, or teasing his little brother (among other things).  S12 is the scape goat for all that goes wrong in our house.  If something is wrong, S12 is blamed.  H has hit S12 before and has destroyed things in front of him (H once flattened a football helmet in front of S12 when he was mad at him - imagine the strength needed to do that - scary).  S12 doesn't respect H at all.  He talks back to him.  He isn't afraid of him.  I know that as S12 grows, he will become less afraid and I am afraid that at some point there is going to be a literal fight between the two of them.  H sometimes looks at S12 with so much hatred you can almost feel it.  It used to make me sad, now it just makes me angry.

S9 is the most sensitive of my kids.  He is always there to give me a hug.  He tries to keep the peace.  He behaves and does what he is told.  He doesn't dislike his dad, but I know that his dad stresses him out.  H is fairly nice to S9 so there aren't a lot of issues between the two of them, but unfortunately S9 has seen many episodes of H's craziness and I'm sure he has formed some lasting opinions.

I am going to file for divorce in January.  D16 will be ecstatic to be away from her dad.  S12 will have a hard time dealing with change in general (we will likely be moving out of our house into my sister's house), but will also be ecstatic to not be around his dad.  S9 will adjust fine to being apart from dad but will have some sadness due to leaving his best friend who is our current next door neighbor.  I am concerned about custody/visitation arrangements.  D16 will spend minimal time with her dad and she is old enough that there isn't a lot that can be forced.  S12 will not WANT to spend any time with his dad.  He isn't quite old enough to vote with his feet so I have concerns.  The lawyer I spoke with told me that they would have S12 talk to a counselor to figure out what is best for S12 in regards to visitation.  I have deep concerns about S12 spending any significant amount of time with H.  S9 will be fine.  He will spend time with his dad and unless there are issues that I hear about, I don't really have issues with S9 spending a bit more time with H. 

I stayed for a LONG time because I wanted to protect my kids.  I felt that if I stayed, that at least they would never HAVE To be alone with him.  It made sense at the time, but now that I see they are each developing their own issues, I worry that I made the wrong decision to stay.  I worry that I was selfish and that I just was too cowardly to make the right decision because of how it would affect me and H.  I have a lot of work to do with my kids to help rid them of the issues they have inherited from their BPD dad and "abused" mom.

It is really sad.  I feel bad for you ex's sons.  I think it is worse when the mom has BPD, because moms seem to get preference with visitation and people tend to make the assumption that kids are always better off with mom.  I hope her boys are doing OK.   :'(

[nevaeh]

I forgot to mention that my S12 was diagnosed with ADD, anxiety and depression at age 8.

Counselor told me that the depression and anxiety was probably a result of the ADD.  I told her I disagreed, that I thought the ADD was a result of the depression and anxiety, and the the depression and anxiety were a result of living with his dad's crazy behavior.  The original intent of that testing was to see if he had Asperger's Syndrome, which fit most of the "high maintenance" behaviors he started exhibiting at a very young age (like starting at age 1-2).  His symptoms were at their height between the ages of 3 and 6.  By the time he was tested at age 8 he was just outside the numeric limits for having AS.  The counselor told me that if we had him tested when he was 5 he likely would have tested within the AS range.  AS is hard because it is a version of autism, but the child is highly functioning so it appears at times that their behaviors are "on purpose" specifically for the purpose of defying parents.  I had him tested because I wanted to be able to show H something "on paper" proving that our son was not doing things on purpose.

I plan on getting S12 and D16 into counseling once divorce proceedings have started.  I am broken too and there is only so much I can help them with, sadly.

[strikeforce]

Mine spent time in a mental hospital after apparently wanting to smother her son.

Always claimed he was too 'clingy' and she would shout all the time.

[State85]

nevaeh

So sorry to hear of your situation, sounds terrible. Fortunately, I will not have to witness any of my uBPDexgf's behavior toward them. I honestly do not think they will be o.k. In the past I have been on the phone with her and listened to the way they acted, and how she reacted... .not pretty at all.

She has also told me, why I don't know, that they have tried to push her down the stair, and cussed at her, etc. Why she was telling me, I don't know. Along with the BPD symptoms from her, her kids behavior is just another reason to get away. I do believe the bigger they get, one of two things will happen 1) she could possibly physically abuse them, or 2) vice-versa.

Tragic... .

[livednlearned]

I forgot to mention that my S12 was diagnosed with ADD, anxiety and depression at age 8.

Counselor told me that the depression and anxiety was probably a result of the ADD.  I told her I disagreed, that I thought the ADD was a result of the depression and anxiety, and the the depression and anxiety were a result of living with his dad's crazy behavior.  The original intent of that testing was to see if he had Asperger's Syndrome, which fit most of the "high maintenance" behaviors he started exhibiting at a very young age (like starting at age 1-2).  His symptoms were at their height between the ages of 3 and 6.  By the time he was tested at age 8 he was just outside the numeric limits for having AS.  The counselor told me that if we had him tested when he was 5 he likely would have tested within the AS range.  AS is hard because it is a version of autism, but the child is highly functioning so it appears at times that their behaviors are "on purpose" specifically for the purpose of defying parents.  I had him tested because I wanted to be able to show H something "on paper" proving that our son was not doing things on purpose.

I plan on getting S12 and D16 into counseling once divorce proceedings have started.  I am broken too and there is only so much I can help them with, sadly.

My son sounds like a combination of yours -- S12 was dx'd ADHD/ADD combined type, with depression and anxiety, plus ODD (which the therapist dismissed since the testing occurred within a month of leaving N/BPDx). But S12 is actually very sensitive, not at all high-maintenance. Like you, I think the ADD, depression, and anxiety is a result of living with his dad, who would blow up if S12 moved the food around his plate too much at dinner.

I was able to get him into counseling, but honestly, I think the most helpful thing I did was to learn how to really, really validate S12. I can't get over how different he is now that we're out of that environment. It took a while, but he handles frustration and disappointment like a champ these days. He still has some coping mechanisms that he'll be dealing with his whole life, but in general, he's well on his way to being a normal, healthy kid. When he was 8, he had constant stomachaches, cried easily, would crawl under his desk at school, did impulsive aggressive things to other kids when he was mad, and the worst was repeatedly telling me he wanted to die  :'(

All of that is gone. I read the Power of Validation cover to cover, and back again. Up one side and down the other, until it came as natural as breathing. Validation, and then firm boundaries with clear, consistent consequences.

[nevaeh]

I forgot to mention that my S12 was diagnosed with ADD, anxiety and depression at age 8.

Counselor told me that the depression and anxiety was probably a result of the ADD.  I told her I disagreed, that I thought the ADD was a result of the depression and anxiety, and the the depression and anxiety were a result of living with his dad's crazy behavior.  The original intent of that testing was to see if he had Asperger's Syndrome, which fit most of the "high maintenance" behaviors he started exhibiting at a very young age (like starting at age 1-2).  His symptoms were at their height between the ages of 3 and 6.  By the time he was tested at age 8 he was just outside the numeric limits for having AS.  The counselor told me that if we had him tested when he was 5 he likely would have tested within the AS range.  AS is hard because it is a version of autism, but the child is highly functioning so it appears at times that their behaviors are "on purpose" specifically for the purpose of defying parents.  I had him tested because I wanted to be able to show H something "on paper" proving that our son was not doing things on purpose.

I plan on getting S12 and D16 into counseling once divorce proceedings have started.  I am broken too and there is only so much I can help them with, sadly.

My son sounds like a combination of yours -- S12 was dx'd ADHD/ADD combined type, with depression and anxiety, plus ODD (which the therapist dismissed since the testing occurred within a month of leaving N/BPDx). But S12 is actually very sensitive, not at all high-maintenance. Like you, I think the ADD, depression, and anxiety is a result of living with his dad, who would blow up if S12 moved the food around his plate too much at dinner.

I was able to get him into counseling, but honestly, I think the most helpful thing I did was to learn how to really, really validate S12. I can't get over how different he is now that we're out of that environment. It took a while, but he handles frustration and disappointment like a champ these days. He still has some coping mechanisms that he'll be dealing with his whole life, but in general, he's well on his way to being a normal, healthy kid. When he was 8, he had constant stomachaches, cried easily, would crawl under his desk at school, did impulsive aggressive things to other kids when he was mad, and the worst was repeatedly telling me he wanted to die  :'(

All of that is gone. I read the Power of Validation cover to cover, and back again. Up one side and down the other, until it came as natural as breathing. Validation, and then firm boundaries with clear, consistent consequences.

Yes, my son started telling me he was going to kill himself probably when he was about 7 or 8.  It scared the crud out of me and I was afraid to leave him alone.  He and I had lots of conversations about what it meant when he said that, and making sure he understood that he should never act on it... .knowing that if he were to do something like that he would need to understand that he wouldn't come back and that I would be so incredibly heartbroken if he did it.  I wasn't sure at that age if he really knew what that meant and I was afraid he would do something because he didn't really understand. 

I have tried like crazy to be there for him.  To always be the voice of reason after his dad does something to drag him down.  S12 does not handle "negative" reinforcement well.  He hates being punished and I know this is a result of living with his dad.  H asserts that the ONLY way to parent S12 is to have S12 FEAR him.  H says I "coddle" S12, which makes me so angry.  H doesn't understand that S12 doesn't respect him and because of that will never really "listen" to what H tells him.  He just doesn't get it.  I will have so much work to do with S12 after the separation.  He and I are already pretty close and he talks to me about things fairly easily.  However, I do have issues with him bullying his younger brother (S9) and he tends to be defiant about things... .he doesn't like to be told what to do and thinks he "knows best" about everything.  Partly a typical pre-teen/teenager, but there are some things we need to work on.

I have told several of my counselors that part of the problem I have always had with S12 is that in our current family dynamic (with uBPDh there), S12 tends to get away with more than he should.  When H is around I try not to have any drama whatsoever with S12 - which includes telling H that I am mad or frustrated with S12.  If I tell him I am frustrated that S12 won't do his homework, for example, H will hunt him down and yell at him and belittle him until he does his homework.  H doesn't realize (or care) that when he starts yelling and swearing that it flusters S12 and makes it even harder for him to focus on what he is supposed to be doing.  The worst is when there are times that I catch S12 being mean to his little brother (provoked or not) I can't really say or do anything if H is around because if he finds out that S12 touched little brother in any way H will GO OFF and it is not pretty.  I fear for S12's safety if that happens.  So, I find it hard in that situation to protect S9 and correct S12 because it will cause bigger problems.  It is so frustrating. 

We have tried implementing an allowance for the kids, which would be a GREAT way particularly for S12 to have some responsibility and get a positive reinforcement for doing it.  But... .the first time S12 "decides" he isn't going to do one of his chores, H goes off the deep end, calls S12 lazy and ungrateful (among other things) and completely pulls the allowance idea altogether stating that S12 is worthless and it just won't work.  I have suggested that we assign amounts to different tasks and only pay for what he does.  Then S12 has control over what he does or doesn't do and, essentially, control over his own destiny.  He does help with things now without getting "paid" so it's not like he sits around and does nothing. 

S12 gets basically straight As or high Bs in school.  He is a high ability student without really having to try very hard and he takes great pride in his grades.  He is also well behaved and respectful at school.  Last school year (6th grade) was rough because he decided he didn't need to take his ADD meds and it was a fight every night to try and get him to take his pill.  He and I talked about it and I agreed to let him make that decision but told him that if his school work was suffering that we would have to start taking it.  The first semester of 6th grade was awful.  He was getting low Bs and Cs and even a D.  He had tons of late assignments and was having a hard time paying attention at school.  He came home one day and approached me in tears... .saying that he felt stupid and that he thought he should probably start taking his medication.  I told him I was so proud of him for making that decision on his own.  That situation really proved to me that S12 needs to be able to make his own decisions (when practical/or safe) and that he has that mental/emotional capacity to see that maybe he needs to take a different path.  H would give S12 NO credit for something like this.  He would focus on the bad grades and say that S12 was just lazy and didn't try.  I would say that S12 tried it his way and came to the eventual (right) conclusion that maybe his way wasn't the best after all. 

I am going to find the book that you mentioned.  I think I already do a LOT of validating of S12.  He needs a lot of positive reinforcement and seems to react pretty well to it.  I think it will be easier when H is no longer living with us. 

[livednlearned]

Yes, my son started telling me he was going to kill himself probably when he was about 7 or 8.  It scared the crud out of me and I was afraid to leave him alone.  He and I had lots of conversations about what it meant when he said that, and making sure he understood that he should never act on it... .knowing that if he were to do something like that he would need to understand that he wouldn't come back and that I would be so incredibly heartbroken if he did it.

I haven't heard other parents who have kids of BPD share that before -- for some reason, knowing that you and your son dealt with this at the same age choked me right up. It's hard for people to believe a child could feel that awful at such a young age. My T told me to say, "You must feel so sad to say that. Is there something that happened today that made you feel so bad?" Basically, to validate his feelings. It still rips my heart to pieces when I think about how he looked, the expression on his face, and the tone of his voice, when he would say that. It was almost matter-of-fact  :'( 

He doesn't say it anymore. And I also learned to point out when he handles negative feelings well, or when he manages a situation in a way that shows he is developing healthy coping mechanisms. In the past year or so, when weird things happen with his dad, I will say things like, "I felt awkward when your dad showed up at the pageant, but I like how I handled it. I checked in with you to say hi, and then I told you were I was going to be sitting in case you wanted to find me during the show. Then I realized that taking big, deep breaths and closing my eyes made me feel relaxed."

He has some real codependent tendencies, and I want him to know that I am the grown, can take care of my own feelings, and that I have them, and here are ways I manage them.

I will have so much work to do with S12 after the separation.  He and I are already pretty close and he talks to me about things fairly easily.  However, I do have issues with him bullying his younger brother (S9) and he tends to be defiant about things... .he doesn't like to be told what to do and thinks he "knows best" about everything.  Partly a typical pre-teen/teenager, but there are some things we need to work on.

It's great that you have a good relationship with him.    That says a lot about you, parenting him under difficult circumstances. I think you're right that things will be really different when you leave. Amazing things happened to S12 when I left (he had just turned 9). Some of it took a while, but seeing me stand up to a bully, and then watching how I managed myself (moderate behavior, managed emotions, flexible thinking, which is from Bill Eddy's books) gave him something solid to pull from.

Back to the original post -- I think if we use as many tools as possible that are on this site, and apply them to our kids, it does offset some of the emotional struggles they face when there's a BPD parent. But there are so many variables -- whether or not they are the "good" child or the "bad" child, and how the other parent (us) deals with the conflict and asserts boundaries.

[Free One]

At the time of my divorce, son (then 6) showed symptoms of ADD/ADHD. Since the divorce, he has had depression and anxiety. We are two years out. He just turned 9, and when his time with his dad is limited, his symptoms are greatly reduced. I really think it is more PTSD than any of the others. Partly due to how much conflict existed prior and during the divorce. I had major fleas and was greatly triggered with PTSD as well. It was a lot to deal with. Now I am in a much better place, and able to help son cope and deal better with new skills.

[Nope]

There is a support board here for adult children of pwBPD. Reading their experiences has taught me a lot. Unfortunately just the fact that those grown children of pwBPD found this site suggests that they are at least aware enough about what they've been through to come looking for support. So it's probably safe to say that as hard as it sometimes is to read their stories they are the "success stories". Terrifies me to think of all those shattered adults out there who never found knowledge and support.

[KE151]

As some of you may know I've been in a r/s with two different BPD's.

The queen type BPD has a daughter who was 4 when the r/s started. I last saw her when she was 7, last year. She was a complete handful. When I wanted to hug her or show affection, she'd yell, scream and violently scratch me with her fingernails. I still have scars on my forehead from that. When I ignored her, she'd jump right up to my lap and hug me... .She was a bad sleeper and had to wear a diaper until the age of 6. She ate way too much and was terribly overweight. Her mom had suffered from bulimia and had very strong push pull tendencies, so I'd say she follows her mom's footsteps into cluster B behavior.

The waif type BPD has two kids S and D. Aged 5 and 8 at the time when we met. Son is extremely fearful and doesn't trust people in general. Afraid of the dark and has certain quirks about clothing which I'd classify as obsessive. After a while we got really close and he started to open up too. A nice little man. The daughter was really troubled though. Often verbally raging towards her mom and younger brother, VERY bad sleeper, afraid of the dark, difficulty making and keeping friends, up n down temper and clear OCD behaviors. She had been violent from very early age. At age 3 she kept pushing her 1 yo kid brother down the stairs on purpose. Very talented in music and good at school. But she felt "fake" somehow, as she was putting on a show of sorts the whole time. She wanted to sit in my lap and just talk about herself all the time. She is in weekly psychotherapy since age 9. I hope it helps and she gets better.

Sigh.