Realizing that validation and acceptance do work

[qcarolr]

I finally got around to reading Shari Manning's book "Loving Someone with BPD", and it has opened my eyes to the reality that I am able to communicate with my BPDDD27 in healthier ways. I can support her without losing my own balance.

Here is a link to the book review: https://bpdfamily.com/book-reviews/loving-someone-borderline-personality-disorder

DD is over two weeks into her probation for harassment charges last summer when breaking up with her bf. She is very appreciative for our paying for a place for her to live. She is missing appointments. She may end up back in court at some point. I am daily practicing accepting this is her life. All I can do is listen and ask non-judgemental questions.

Told her I cannot have lunch with her this week, and asked her to call me. She did tonight, just to check in. She took her dog on the bus today with the service dog registration ID she got. Said it went OK. This took courage for her. She has made it to morning check-in, but said she did not go to 1pm appt. They called at 12:30 to remind her -- the staff are reaching out to try and get her to connect with program. She was nearly back to her motel -- two buses away.

I texted her what does she need to make it to her appointments. Can she ask for this from staff. Wanted to say 'you are risking ending up back in court - what are you thinking'. I said call me - luv you instead.

DD has not brought up not being allowed to see gd8 right now since last Weds. Am working with my T tomorrow on script to answer this. Gd needs to feel safe in our home and neighborhood. DD jeopardized this many times in past 2 years with her rage outbursts - trigger often about having her homeless friends here or anger at our custody of gd.

The DD's issues about gd trigger my emotions -- working on these with my T also. There are many conflicts here for me too. I get dysregulated too and it is like a volcano. This is also an area I hope the dual-dx program can eventually help Dd and I work through before visits with gd start again. Gd's T is gets all this, and is really on me to keep our limits firm about DD not being at our home AT ALL.

Shari Manning's book has such concrete ways for me to use validation and acceptance. Step by step - reinforcing with new words so many things I believe I have not been able to put into practice this year. It helps to have the physical space from DD.

Will keep working on myslef -- that is really all I can do. And then be hopeful that changes in me will continue to create opportunities for DD to respond in new ways - baby steps...

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[crazedncrazymom]

Carolqr,

That's awesome! I bet you felt so good with yourself and relieved that your conversation didn't end in a meltdown.  It really is hard not to say DANGIT!  GRRRR!  Get yourself to court!  You were so right though.  Your dd knew about the court date and chose to put herself in a position not to get there. 

I think your reaction is spot on and will lead to many more tension free conversations.  I'm going to get that book and read it.  Thanks for sharing!

-crazed

[BioAdoptMom3]

That is WONDERFUL news!  And, not only wonderful for you and your DD, but encouraging for me!  I am in the process right now of reading the same book!  I really appreciate that it is easy to read, filled with specific examples of each technique, etc.!  I think it will really be helpful because so far, and I am only up to chapter 4, it really makes sense when thinking about my own life.  Thanks for sharing and encouraging us!

[modafinilguy]

qcarolr,

You have a very impressive mind set here. I am just passing quickly but your perspective is a good, healthy one. Keep up the good work. Bye

[qcarolr]

Often, in the moment, it feels like I am very confused about what is valdating, what is supportive, what is enabling. I was really feeling mixed up the past few days. My tolerance level is down - worry over minor surgery yesterday to remove small skin cancer on my nose. Kind of ugly right now - need patience to let it heal. Gd8 says "grandma, aren't you embarassed to be seen with your nose this way?"  Kids - blunt and to the point. I think Dd felt the same way when I helped her get some groceries yesterday. Her food stamps are gone until Dec 6th when the next month posts to her benefit card.

DD called Weds night with need to see doc for a new infection. Gave her the contact info Thurs morning and she called clinic, made appointment. I met her for lunch then dropped her off before I went to pick up gd from school. DD was able to get to the free pharmacy across town for meds. and back to main intersection nearest her motel, then called again. It was a 1 mile walk up the mountain to her motel and she was hurting. I was on my way home with gd in the car - struck behind stalled dump truck for 15 minutes. So we picked her up - gd got to play with dog. It worked out OK for a quick 10 minute visit.

I brought Dd's laundry home on Thursday before the doctor appt. DD wanted to come do it herself on the weekend. We had an intense talk about why she cannot be at our house. I absolutely hate having to deal with this whole issue. I want to avoid it -- AVOID IT. But there we were together in the car, getting louder and louder. We were in a parking lot, so I got out to take a breather. I accepted that part of the responsibility for our angry exchanges is mine - part of it is hers. We trigger each other, we each get louder, and then the volcano erupts. Gd cannot be exposed to this anymore. GD knows this, and can tell me this, and she can tell her T about this. I have to put this ahead of my own issues. My own PTSD stuff, my over-involvement with DD's life. It is so hard to know what DD can do for herself and what she really needs help with. And now to figure out what she needs to ask for help at the probation/treatment team and what is OK for me to help her with. I am just so confused.

My little brain is not understanding all the info coming in. I keep having to ask others to give more details when they talk to me. I cannot seem to read between the lines at all. It puts me very far away from being attuned to the other person. And now I have a 1/2 inch line of stiches up the side of my nostril - wonder if there will be a big dent there when the stiches are removed in two weeks.

Newest thing:  DD wants to do yoga. THis would be so very awesome for her. There was a volunteer in jail that did yoga in her dorm. She offers free classes to ex-inmate women. Dd had asked me to find out when these classes were - I had the woman's card from talking with her once in the jail lobby. I found the card, the website, and the class is tomorrow afternnon. So text this to DD. And her reply was that I was being very abrupt and rude! AUGHHHH!  So I took a break and got my calm back a bit. Then text aplogoy for sounding abrupt, I am tired and grumpy today. Her reply ' maybe tomorrow will be better'.

What I really WANT to do is take gd tomorrow and meet DD and her dog for lunch near her motel, then drop her at the yoga place with $2 for bus fare back to her motel. Gd is thinking about this idea - needs a promise from her mom of "no yelling". How do I relay that message to DD without setting off triggers?

I know how hard it is for me to try something new, in a especially in anew location. And I have the benefit of a car. DD gets very stressed on the bus, then to find the place, then to go in and meet new people. I want her to be able to do this. SHe already knows the instructor. Maybe she will know some of the other women too. And this is a place to connect with others that are not part of her homeless community - ie. more supportive of her goals with probation and treatment. This yoga group's focus is on empowering women to stay out of jail.

So, do I take risk of having DD and gd in the car together to drive DD to yoga class tomorrow? How do I prepare myself for this to keep the peace? How do I protect gd if things start to unwind? Yikes - I am so tired of being in between my girls!

qcr

[lbjnltx]

qcarolr... .can you solve problems one at a time?  think of options? 

Maybe gd8 can stay with a playmate during the time you take DD to yoga?  Maybe drop gd8 at husbands work for a lunch date and then come back for her after you drop DD off at yoga?  Maybe have dh pu DD and drop her at yoga on his lunch hour?  If there are no other options for gd8 than to stay with you then maybe all of you meet at the bus stop and ride there together on the bus... .can help DD feel secure and be confident in getting herself there on the bus next time while being around others and giving gd8 a new experience of riding a city bus... .?

If none of these options will work for your family then there is the last option... .don't go.  Remember your priorities regarding your and gd8's physical, mental and emotional safety.

Having options can relieve our anxiety and worry... .move us into problem solving mode which is empowering.  When we are empowered we are not operating in victim mode... .we are proactive and not reactive which further empowers us.

lbjnltx

[qcarolr]

Gd says she wants to see her mom and Chloe (dog) today.

Neighbors do not accept my leaving gd on playdate and being away from home, esp if I am doing something with dd. feels very harsh and judgemental -- that is the way it is.

It is hard for me to reach out and connect with other mom's in gd's school for out of neighborhood playdates - I reach out, get "ok that sounds good", then never hear again.

Dh has gained resistence to adjusting his work around family needs - he has done this several times in past couple months. He is there alone today in his department.

Thinking we can take lunch with us and walk to park near dd's motel. I will give her some bus passes and a grocery gift card. Then she can manage what she wants to do. It really is up to her to get to where she needs to go in town, and her infection is better. This is a new idea, and maybe it will work.

qcr

[pessim-optimist]

I really like what lbj says - solving problems one at a time.

Also - if you are not sure, what DD can do for herself, and what she needs from you - can you call her dual diagnosis team and ask if they want dd to do this for herself, or if they would like you to do it?

[qcarolr]

I am pondering asking if they can give me an update.

Did visit DD briefly today with gd. She sat on her bed the whole time. Asking me for stuff she needs to do for herself or that costs money I am not willing to provide. Gd and I walked out when her emotions started to rev up.

She is asking and asking for me to somehow get her an apartment. She cannot hear me repeat - ask PACE or help with this. They are ones to help.

There are some issues with her friend staying there, and with dog off leash and being aggressive with other dogs. she is an anxious dog. she can come back to our house if needed - dd knows this.

Suggested she and V ask office to put him on room if this would solve that issue. Ask him to chip in on rent. She said they will check this out. He needs to get a job. Well yes - that would be a good thing!

She has been sick with infection - on antibiotics and pain meds. Suggested to her that this may contribute to her more intense emotions and fatigue. This will get better.

Taking lots of moments today to pull myself back into a more mindful place - willingness to let go of DD solutions and outcomes, accepting she is doing the best she can today and tomorrow can be better. This has helped with my anxiousness.

Dh has suggested that we speak about our family issues in front of gd, in appropriate ways, so she can experience our problem -solving and empathy. I tend to try to keep it all quiet - but she is aware and overhears. This transparency is helping her - she contributes her ideas and asks questions. Have to be very aware of her stomach aches and headaches signs of holding stress. She settled OK for be tonight.

I did good today.

qcr

[pessim-optimist]

Did visit DD briefly today with gd. She sat on her bed the whole time. Asking me for stuff she needs to do for herself or that costs money I am not willing to provide. Gd and I walked out when her emotions started to rev up.

She is asking and asking for me to somehow get her an apartment. She cannot hear me repeat - ask PACE or help with this. They are ones to help.

Is one of the goals that PACE has for dd to cut the unhealthy dependence your dd has on you, and then work with her to start looking for solutions elsewhere (= cooperating with the program)?

If so, perhaps you can ask them how you can help in this... .

Dh has suggested that we speak about our family issues in front of gd, in appropriate ways, so she can experience our problem -solving and empathy. I tend to try to keep it all quiet - but she is aware and overhears. This transparency is helping her - she contributes her ideas and asks questions. Have to be very aware of her stomach aches and headaches signs of holding stress. She settled OK for be tonight.

Honesty, healthy problem solving, and respect for your gd's feelings/concerns might decrease her anxiety over the issues.

[qcarolr]

The PACE field specialist that I can have spoken with does not share any info related to DD treatment. I can share with her, and she can give my info to treatment team. This is OK as DD needs to build trust. I understand this.

They really want DD to solve her own problems and rely on them to help with this. DD still reaches out to me. Do I have to be very intentional in what help I give. I did leave message today asking for general info on housing. We are paying for this, and need to keep looking for a more long term solution. Even if in another county. Asked how that would look - and what transportation via bus they would provide.

I am really concerned about the narcotic pain meds they gave DD for her infection. I do know the pain is high with the location and depth of the cystic infection. She has had these for several years and stress really contributes. I am so glad she went to her specialist doc instead of going to urgent care. This is the second time she has done this, and the first time she did it alone. I was truly not available to go with her even though she asked all day long. I had to be with gd at time of her appt.

After so many years of intervening with DD, this has been a hard transistion for me. I am till working on defining  my role in her life. Maybe they will return my call from today.

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

Good visit with DD tonight at her motel. Were some issues with her having too many homeless visitors. Today was the end of her month, and the owner said she was expected to check out today. She called mein a panic. I had left a message last week about renewing, never got a call back. So called and got the owner (his son manages the motel). Son out of town. So he let me pay for another month. DD has cleaned things up in past week and actually was alone for a couple days, with only one visitor the other days. The motel has had bad experiences with homeless visitors in past. Nothing bad happened in DD's room.

Was able to discuss all of my concerns with her tonight. Asked questions about treatment plan, appointments, what things she is doing. She is confused about them asking her to go back to previous places for her DWAI classes and UA's. These are very very inconvenient from where she is staying now - no longer at our home in next town! And she has not heard from case coordinator about meeting with both of us about housing. DD had me go in with her last Friday to ask - she was to call DD that afternoon.

We talked about what DD's goals are, her strengths in accomplishing these goals, and the areas she needs support and what she could manage this to look like. I have her permission to talk to the director of this program. We need to know what to expect. DD needs to know who is on her 'team'. DD wants them to know what her big goals are - no one has asked about these yet. She just met with her therapist the first time last week. How they assess goals is very confusing to both DD and I.

DD wants DBT or CBT to manage her emotions and choices; job support with a job coach; help to get long term housing that is priced sustainable; and with success in these she can get a car. Making connections on the bus adds 3 times the amount of time to get anywhere.

DD also wants to do a free womens yoga class on Sundays. But hard to get motivated to make the hour+ trek on the bus, be tired and sweaty and dysregulated by the time she gets there, and then face the 1 mile up the hill back to motel after. It takes 5 minutes to get there in a car. I cannot go with her on Sunday - home with gd as dh works Sundays. It would be good for me to go too, though I might interfere with her making friends with other women. I really want her to go - she wants to go. She needs new friends. The instructor is great - into empowering women ex-inmates to stay out of jail.

Seems to be slow start - and DD is continuing to try. Hope to get a better idea of ways family can be supportive of her program without interfering.

qcr

[Thursday]

qcarolr-

Just read through this thread. Applause for your continued work to find a way to be engaged with your DD. It sounds

positive

exhausting

fraught with danger to replapse into old patterns

like this helps you feel better about yourself

Good for your dh to understand that your gd can become more aware of what is going on around her. In my BPDSD's case, when her Mom was ill, there was so much whispering and overheard conversations that she didn't really understand. That she interpreted in ways nobody could imagine. Definitely, tailor things to her tender ears but don't keep her out of the loop.

Would your DD be amenable to riding a bike? I know in your area at least for part of the year the snow would be a hindrance but maybe a bike (if you don't have one to give her, I find bikes all the time at Goodwill for 20.00 or less) would give her a sense of more control over her movements. I think the bus is a great tool but sometimes to get from point A to point B the bus is a big waste of time.

I agree, so long as you are at yoga class with her she won't have a need to interact with anyone else. Expanding her circle of friends to NOT include the homeless folks could really be a positive change in her life. Although, if this is all released inmates, hmmmm... .

Just morning ponderings since I'm late to the thread... .

Thursday

[crumblingdad]

Sounds like some relatively positive progress!  So happy to see things headed in the right direction despite some of the ongoing concerns.  Have the two of you discussed the confusion on how they assess the goals that both of you are feeling?  Certainly tough to achieve them when they aren't clear to both of you, but particularly your DD.

Yoga seems to be such a beneficial program - is their anyone within the PACE program or any of the social support networks that could help her with transportation.  It's good to see you are setting the boundaries of taking care of yourself and gd first and not trying to turn your schedule upside down to accomodate.

How are you feeling about everything?  DD is so fortunate to have such tremendous loving support from you.

[qcarolr]

If I could drop her off for first time, it is likely she will know some of the women there and maybe can get a ride in future. The women in her jail dorm were very supportive for her, very caring. Dd said they all cried when she was released - they cared and would miss her. She said this was a new experience for her and she got tearful with me.

She is in such a vulnerable place. Yet she has guys visiting her, and they shield her from some pain that she needs to feel to keep motivated with her  treatment. i know she struggles to make it to her appointments. And then the team tends to withdraw instead of finding ways to make for her success.

She needs to live closer. She needs a mentor. She needs a life coach - this is role I have played and her friends have done since about 5th grade. When she is alone, she is lost. Some of this is the mental health/BPD. Some is her severe non verbal learning disability dx: organic brain disorder, NOS when she was 6. Professionals don't seem to understand how complex this makes DD's situation. That she is not being defiant, resistant or anything else intentional. She needs extra support. THey have made some accommodations with her check-in schedule.

I suggested to DD that she make a pact with herself to arrive 1/2 hour early for all her appointments. We will see how things go this week. I am having supper with her tomorrow night. Dh can be home with gd.

I am very hard on myself. Always have been, even as a young child. Am getting some good help in therapy for myself with this. Though T can trigger so much pain. I understand why DD avoids this and she has so many fewer tools and skills.

The judge specifically ordered DBT for her. And the program does offer both CBTR and DBT. THey hold this away from DD until she can 'prove' that she can get to her other appointments. SHe needs the DBT skills first, then she can do the other things better. How to help DD convince them of this need.

They need to get knowledge of a regulation based approach instead of a behavior based approach. So many of the programs here work in this way. SET, validation, DEARMAN.  Geez - you would think they would get this already.

I am very frustrated. DD is trying her best.

Also, DD was to be out of her motel room. They were upset wtih the homeless visitors she was having, her anxious dog, incense burning in the window. They younger son managing the motel and/or his wife spoke to her about this a week ago. DD did not get that they wanted her to leave at the end of her prepaid month. So yesterday the older gentlman that owns the motel stopped by to ask why she had not checked out. She was freaking out when she called.

I called the office. The son/DIL had left town for holiday and he was managing. They had told him to get DD out, they did not want her there. I explained her situation, he shared about his own grown kid troubles, and took my money for another month. Kind of in a defiant way too - he was the owner after all. Great relief for DD. And I see changes in response to their requests starting a week ago after they talked to her. So glad she gets another chance.

Gotta get gd off to bed.

qcr

[peaceplease]

qcr,

I thought I posted a reply here last night.  I was having problems with my computer, and I guess it didn't post.  So, here is a re-post - I am happy that it seems that things have progressed upward for your dd.  I am glad that you were able to get the owner to agree to allow her to stay for another month.  Seeing your posts gives me hope.  I know that you have been through a lot with dd, and I am so happy to see that she is moving forward, seems motivated. 

I was wondering if someone from your dd's team could provide her with transportation to yoga? 

Take care.

peaceplease

[qcarolr]

Yesterday DD invited me to come with her to meet with her probation officer. A neighbor watched gd so I could go. This invitation was a gift that DD gave to me - and I thanked her. It gave me a chance to share all that I wrote below with the one person that can do something about it. JS, the probation officer, seemed to get what I was saying about DD needing to be coached. I shared very briefly her history since age 6 and how the various issues have impacted her as an adult. DD shared what she understood the program expected from her. JS gave me a good idea of the comprehensive, step by step, program for DD to move toward greater and greater independence. We talked about work and what DD wants - and how this could be a volunteer into work opportunity. And she could meet the community service hours ordered on one of her 4 cases. We talked about her SSI hearing, housing, and who on the team would be there for her when she is struggling in ANY WAY.

It was clear that JS truly cares about DD's well-being and success. DD got this too, and was somewhat in awe of this. "Mom, I have never had anyone in the probation department really care before."  JS was going to a team meeting in the afternoon and would share our meeting. She was setting up with DD to meet daily with case coordinator - they would call the UA line together and then DD would be expected to get the bus directly to the center to have this monitoring done. (they do it at a different location)  She stopped and made an appointment with her T on the way out, and is to see her weekly.

Now it is up to DD to show up. She has to get out of bed everyday - mon to fri - and check in. What she needs is here for her -- I have done all I can now.

Feel like I am rambling. Will read back here tomorrow to see if this makes sense.

qcr

[pessim-optimist]

  That sounds encouraging.