Is she staying because of love, or out of necessity and fear?

[Border_Lover]

How do you know? How can you tell? Has it always been out of necessity and fear? I've read how pwBPD can truly hate you, but still stay because of fear. She realizes she has a problem, and is starting therapy. I want to give it a chance if she truly wants to be with me. Is there any way to tell?   Any insight would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

[HopefulDad]

I asked a similar question (":)id she truly love me?" in a separate thread.  I don't think there is a straight answer as it's clear from reading all of the stories here that there are different degrees of BPD.  At least your pwBPD is seeking help.  That's so huge.  If I were in your shoes, I would be supporting this fully, but at no point would I make it conditional that "seeing a therapist = you've won me back".  Otherwise the seeing a therapist is just a tool to avoid the fear of abandonment and not an earnest attempt at change.

[Border_Lover]

I asked a similar question (":)id she truly love me?" in a separate thread.  I don't think there is a straight answer as it's clear from reading all of the stories here that there are different degrees of BPD.  At least your pwBPD is seeking help.  That's so huge.  If I were in your shoes, I would be supporting this fully, but at no point would I make it conditional that "seeing a therapist = you've won me back".  Otherwise the seeing a therapist is just a tool to avoid the fear of abandonment and not an earnest attempt at change.

Thank you very much for the insight. In this case I am currently still in a r/s with her, but we are living apart. I'm also a large financial support in her life. I really hope it isn't just a tool to avoid abandonment. She bought a DBT workbook on her own, and has spent some time in it, and I have actually noticed some changes. She fully realizes she has BPD, if she is just using it as a tool to avoid abandonment, and she is improving, isn't that a positive thing? Or is it likely she will just drop it all immediately upon us breaking up? I'm having a difficult day, full of confusion, and I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

[hergestridge]

For many BPD people it seems leaving is not an option. My BPD wife has threatened to leave but then it was af if she couldn't pull it through, or as if it was just a bluff. You never know what goes on inside her head, but it's obvious she goes through periods of really disliking me. This of course causes me great pain, of course. Sometimes I wish she would leave, but instead she stays and starts to view me as the problem.

About her seeing a therapist:

Most therapists rely on their clients description of the situation. My wife went through a really terrible phase a few years back when she gave me the silent treatment for months and refused to cooperate in all possible ways. She then went to a therapist and managed to convice the T that I was somehow ruining her life. The T suggested a separation. My wife didn't see the logic at all. But she painted me black to an extent that the T thought she was in an abusive relationship. The reality was that I was tiptoeing round her, avoiding at any cost to make her upset.

Bpd people are extremely manipulative and they don't even know it. Don't be surprised if the therapy soon ends up with her coming home telling you you're the sick one. "Truth" is a very hazy concept to BPD people. I find myself asking my wife the question "Did you tell it like it is? The whole story?". She hates that question now, because she can't seem to retell things as they were without changing and omitting a few (often essential) details here and there to fit her purpose.

I don't know if my wife loves me, but she seems to be in a love-hate relationship with everyone who is close to her (basically me and her parents). If she doesn't love me then I'm convinced she would stay with me anyway.

As i see it, the natural thing to do if you don't like someone's behavior is to leave (not that I practice what I preach, mind you!) or suggest a solution. My wife has a "call the cops" attitude which is very dysfunctional. She thinks she's entitled to a nice and loving relationship with her significant others, and if she doesn't get loved enough (she never does!) then she's been abused and complains. Our coversations is like the that between a dad and a rebellious kid. And just like a kid, she stays with me because she depends on me, not neceserily because she loves me.

[PuzzledMate]

Your post struck me this weekend.  We argued about so many things then she said 'I can't leave, I have nowhere to go' and 'I can't afford to move out' and finally 'I'm too in love with you to leave so I guess I deserve to be abused if I have someone to love'.

Wow. 

And by the way, disagreeing with her, even respectfully, is considered abuse in her book.  She often states 'I can't even defend myself because it causes a fight'.   

You may get a lot of responses but your gut feeling about who she stays is what? 

[hergestridge]

Your post struck me this weekend.  We argued about so many things then she said 'I can't leave, I have nowhere to go' and 'I can't afford to move out' and finally 'I'm too in love with you to leave so I guess I deserve to be abused if I have someone to love'. 

I've had that too. My wife has done unacceptable things and basically said "You can throw me out if you want to, but I can't see how that would work out. What she actually means is "no way you're throwing me out mother___er". She hasn't thought the reaity of a separation through at all, even though it's been an imminent threat for years. Not preparing herself has been her way of making it impossible.

And by the way, disagreeing with her, even respectfully, is considered abuse in her book.  She often states 'I can't even defend myself because it causes a fight'.   

Oh god yes. I have told her that defending oneself is an inadequate reaction unless

a/ one has been attacked and

b/ one is in the right

A lot of the time this is not the case.

For the borderline person defence is just a way of not losing face. It's a war over nothing.

[hergestridge]

It's basically very simple. Most BPD people destroy their relationships. Many people ruin their own relationships, but ithe odd thing about BPD people is that when they've made their relationships totally unlivable, then they stay in them for years on end. And the odd things about oss "nons" is that we put up with it.

It amazes me every day that my BPD wife can stand living in the mess she's made out of our relationship (I can say without flinching she did it singlehandedly). Leaving would be the obvious option because it MUST mean less suffering on her part. But it's like she can't see realistically on the situation. The fears she hold for a separation are not actuall fears (as in concerns). It's more like a phobia.

So what about me? I think I could live without her, but I seriously fear what she would do without me and I'm afraid she wouldn't do very well. She would insist on having my daughter half time but I don't know how well she would handle it. She's got "bad" periods with fits of anger and instability and she only admits them after they  are over - admitting that she "shouldn't" have had care of her daughter those particular days. I think my fears for a separation are well founded.

On the other hand, I have no idea how much of her illness is a theatre act set up to tie me to her. And I'm not if she knows anymore either. And I fear she would start doing things that she knows will hurt me to keep me in control after a separation. Some of these things makes staying sound like the easy option.