Money Matters

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My fiancé gives his BPDexw a significant amount of money for child support. However, she doesn't make much and has a child from another relationship with an ex boyfriend who doesn't work. To our knowledge she has never tried to get child support from him. As you can guess, only some small portion of the money that she gets for child support actually goes to D10 and S9. Then the kid's mom calls my fiance and asks him to "help out" by buying clothes to send the kids home with the few times a year we see them.

She does things like call before his six week summer parenting time and ask to send the list of required school supplies with the kids so that my fiance will buy them. My fiance pointed out to her that even though he will have the kids for a month and a half she will still be collecting child support and should use that. She became enraged. In the end she got her grandmother to pay for the school supplies and spent the summer working only part time and living off the child support, which had been the real reason she wanted us paying for school supplies in the first place.

So what do you do? Accept that "child support" is really another way of saying "alimony" and take care of the children's expenses or do you put your foot down?

[Nope]

My fiancé gives his BPDexw a significant amount of money for child support. However, she doesn't make much and has a child from another relationship with an ex boyfriend who doesn't work. To our knowledge she has never tried to get child support from him. As you can guess, only some small portion of the money that she gets for child support actually goes to D10 and S9. Then the kid's mom calls my fiance and asks him to "help out" by buying clothes to send the kids home with the few times a year we see them.

She does things like call before his six week summer parenting time and ask to send the list of required school supplies with the kids so that my fiance will buy them. My fiance pointed out to her that even though he will have the kids for a month and a half she will still be collecting child support and should use that. She became enraged. In the end she got her grandmother to pay for the school supplies and spent the summer working only part time and living off the child support, which had been the real reason she wanted us paying for school supplies in the first place.

So what do you do? Accept that "child support" is really another way of saying "alimony" and take care of the children's expenses or do you put your foot down?

[Gidget]

First let me say that it is great he pays child support. I will give you another way of looking at this from a Single parents point of view.

I got divorced from my ex husband when my daughter was 2years old and remarried at her being 14years old. I got very little if any child support until I got very ill and the support laws changed that was in 1992. I started getting regular child support. My support at the time was 55.00 per week crazy to be able to raise a child on that. At times he stated I bought her stuff for school to a judge to justify no support.

Child Support is to put a roof and food in your childs mouth. Cloths,school supplies sport cost music lessons are all extras. I worked 2 jobs to give it all to my child.

I say what about the child. If parents put their differences aside for the good of the child and give realizing it is for the child not the ex it would make a much loving household.

What if he buys extra clothes or supplies isn't about his child. Isn't it about the person he helped make what about just giving and not keeping track it is for the children when you remove the ex from the equation you are looking at what is best for the child.

If he can't afford to give those things that is understandable ask yourself this is it really about the cloths the school supplies or is it about the Ex.

I would have given anything for my ex husband to not only be there for my daughter emotionally but to help out financially. I didn't ask for Alimony he owed me nothing but he owed the child he help to create.

Put the child first and everything else will work out

[Gidget]

First let me say that it is great he pays child support. I will give you another way of looking at this from a Single parents point of view.

I got divorced from my ex husband when my daughter was 2years old and remarried at her being 14years old. I got very little if any child support until I got very ill and the support laws changed that was in 1992. I started getting regular child support. My support at the time was 55.00 per week crazy to be able to raise a child on that. At times he stated I bought her stuff for school to a judge to justify no support.

Child Support is to put a roof and food in your childs mouth. Cloths,school supplies sport cost music lessons are all extras. I worked 2 jobs to give it all to my child.

I say what about the child. If parents put their differences aside for the good of the child and give realizing it is for the child not the ex it would make a much loving household.

What if he buys extra clothes or supplies isn't about his child. Isn't it about the person he helped make what about just giving and not keeping track it is for the children when you remove the ex from the equation you are looking at what is best for the child.

If he can't afford to give those things that is understandable ask yourself this is it really about the cloths the school supplies or is it about the Ex.

I would have given anything for my ex husband to not only be there for my daughter emotionally but to help out financially. I didn't ask for Alimony he owed me nothing but he owed the child he help to create.

Put the child first and everything else will work out

adult child with 3 grandkids

[Nope]

I would agree about the food and shelter, but she has the state paying for them to have both breakfast and lunch at school every school day and she is living in a two bedroom shack. One room for her, one room for D10, S9 and half sister age 4. Since she would need two bedrooms for herself and her other child anyway, she isn't using the child support to provide extra rooms or space. The place also has no air conditioning and heated with space heaters. Again, she is getting a decent amount of support. There is just no way we can force her to use it correctly. (The fact that we are going for custody goes in a separate thread on the other board.)

The desperate question about if the money is there to get more things for the kids... .well... .that depends on how you look at it and maybe that is what makes this my problem. There is more money in general since my fiance and I moved in together. We are trying to fix up our house and plan our wedding. Since the kids live out of state it is easily $1000 every time we go visit for a long weekend which he is entitled to do once a month. I guess I just don't know if I'm enforcing personal boundaries when I say that "our" money is spoken for or if I'm being too harsh.

[scraps66]

In terms of the "extra" money you give and she is requesting, I think you do have to put your foot down.  Child support is designed and calculated to allow children to be taken care of when in the support receiving parent's care.  If your ex needs more money even with the child support, then she needs to get a better paying job or reduce spending.

In terms of what she is using the child support for, that is something that you really don't have a say in - other than resisting giving her money beyond the child support. 

I have had my own issues of ex doing things that are just unfair when it comes to child support and daycare expenses.  Like jsut about all here on the boards, money is just one more vehicle that your BP SO can use to get at you and impart some discomfort or abuse.   

[Gidget]

It is hard when they live elsewhere and you just don't know where the money is going. It is also hard since you two are getting married and feel that it should also be about you. My husband felt a lot that my daughter came first in our marriage. Though she lived with us. He was an extremely generous man. Wished her father was that way.

What to me seems to be the biggest problem just from over the years hearing about divorce and money with children is so many make it about money. WHAT IT NEEDS TO BE IS COMMUNICATION ABOUT THE CHILD PUTTING OUR OWN NEEDS ASIDE AND BEING THE ADULT AND COMMUNICATING. It's hard when there are hard feelings. My ex husband was horrible yet for the first time in my daughters life at the age of 37 she learned those horrible things about him. I never once and I could truly say with honesty did I e ver destroy her father to her yet he did not do the same to me.

It is very hard wish both the Dad and Mother hear could speak about the needs honestly and being willing to help where help is needed for the childs sake.

[livednlearned]

Your SO was good at setting a boundary about the school supplies, and it worked out.  

Is the subject of money (or things) ever mentioned directly with the kids? Do they complain about going without?

[Nope]

Your SO was good at setting a boundary about the school supplies, and it worked out.  

Is the subject of money (or things) ever mentioned directly with the kids? Do they complain about going without?

I think the kids have sort of accepted that thing are the way they are at their mom's. They have always lived with her so they don't know a) that they aren't getting proper care and b) that there is money that it supposed to be available for such things. What they do know is that the second they are back with daddy they can ask for things. Example: S9 asked for a haircut the second he got in the car. He clearly hadn't had one in months. D10 said her eyes were burning and she was getting headaches when she read. Turned out my fiancé is the only one who brings the kids to the eye Dr. ever. I get the sense that they don't really try to get their needs met or advocate for themselves with their mom. Obviously that is a hard thing for anyone to do when the words fall on the ears of a pwBPD.

[livednlearned]

Your SO was good at setting a boundary about the school supplies, and it worked out.  

Is the subject of money (or things) ever mentioned directly with the kids? Do they complain about going without?

I think the kids have sort of accepted that thing are the way they are at their mom's. They have always lived with her so they don't know a) that they aren't getting proper care and b) that there is money that it supposed to be available for such things. What they do know is that the second they are back with daddy they can ask for things. Example: S9 asked for a haircut the second he got in the car. He clearly hadn't had one in months. D10 said her eyes were burning and she was getting headaches when she read. Turned out my fiancé is the only one who brings the kids to the eye Dr. ever. I get the sense that they don't really try to get their needs met or advocate for themselves with their mom. Obviously that is a hard thing for anyone to do when the words fall on the ears of a pwBPD.

Ugh. That's gotta be tough, Nope.

It's good that the kids feel like they can ask your SO for what they need, but so sad it's basic stuff like eyeglasses and hair cuts.

Not sure there's a way you can reasonably do anything about how their mom spends her money (other than changing custody, which I know you're working on). How has it been with the kids when the topic of money or buying them things comes up? It's such a fine line to let them know that you care, but don't want to become the ATM machine.

I am on the opposite side of what you are going through -- my ex wanted me to provide monthly accounting for how I spent child support. I could tell that he was somehow undermining me to S12 because of things S12 said. So I addressed it directly. I told S12 that his dad gave me a certain amount of money to pay for things like housing and food, and also told him I budgeted to live somewhere that we could afford to live even if I didn't get money from his dad. Which is true, except that I didn't anticipate the legal bills I would have to pay. I was hoping to put child support in savings, but they basically go straight to my lawyer  :'(

I took a page from Divorce Poison and decided that the money thing was creating anxiety in S12, and did some very subtle SET with him (support, empathy, truth). "You asked me if we have enough money to buy these groceries. That must make you feel anxious and worried, to think that there isn't enough money. I have a full-time job, so there is enough money to support us. Your dad gives me a little extra to help pay for things, like home and food. That money is temporary, and I learned to budget so that we can get by even without it."

I hope that let him know that I'm able to take care of us, but that, yes, his dad does give us money. It's not that much, and it's temporary. I did that because I think his dad wanted him to believe I was using the money to buy things for myself, or was in some way being reckless.

Maybe something similar would work with your kids -- so they know that you are stable, have boundaries, and are doing things to care for them, even if it isn't exactly money in their pockets.

It feels like walking a tightrope -- trying to put them first, trying to make them feel secure, without being bullied or exploited by the other parent. Not easy, not for anyone.

S12 is way too anxious about money for a kid his age, imo.

[Nope]

LnL - I have huge concerns about the ATM issue. The kid's BPD mom and the father of her youngest child either wouldn't have jobs or would have very low paying jobs. My S.O. once heard the guy in the background of a phone conversation he was having with D10 (then 7) coaching her to ask him to pay for something because "he has money". We also know that kids model what they see and their mom has no qualms about calling and asking for money right in front of the kids. Of course, my fiance refuses to engage when he knows they are there.

Thanks for pointing out the other side. I know there ate good reasons why the court won't compel the support receiving party to show how support is spent.

It's just hard when I hear from D10 that her mother has a new Fossil watch or see online that she is going to concerts and has a paid Match.com account when she claims she has no money for anything for the kids and screams at my S.O. for "never helping". Of course, she screams that at him even when he does send them back with clothes. So it's also important to remember that if she *feels* that he hasn't helped that is going to be her reality no matter what he does.

I guess in the end all we can do is stay focused on the kids and figure out between us what our boundary should be. Once we do that maybe a frank discussion with the kids is in order.

[broken3]

Nope and Gidget,

$55.00 per week in child support is crazy to be able to expect to raise a child on that!

We had 3 kids together. And I have custody.

I get nothing. Zero. Nada. Zip. I actually have to pay her APL for near $550.00 per month. Plus the bills, lawyer fees, mortgage,all the kids school supplies, clothes etc.

If the kids go over there for a night. I am told to give money for special acne soap or tampons!

Its is extremely hard. But I am very proud to say to the kids. "we don't have much. But we will always get by."

It has also shown them to be very wise about the money they spend. No $60.00 jeans. No UGG boots. No King crab legs, and filet mignon etc. When Wranglers, Walmart boots, and ground beef is what is needed.

"Needs" trump "wants" every day.

I only have a GED. Yet my STBXW has a degree. But because she only works part time. And because I worked a full time job and ran a small business from the home. I was told to pay.

How's that for an eye opener!

Am I the ATM?... .Hell yes!

[livednlearned]

LnL - I have huge concerns about the ATM issue. The kid's BPD mom and the father of her youngest child either wouldn't have jobs or would have very low paying jobs. My S.O. once heard the guy in the background of a phone conversation he was having with D10 (then 7) coaching her to ask him to pay for something because "he has money". We also know that kids model what they see and their mom has no qualms about calling and asking for money right in front of the kids. Of course, my fiance refuses to engage when he knows they are there.

Thanks for pointing out the other side. I know there ate good reasons why the court won't compel the support receiving party to show how support is spent.

It's just hard when I hear from D10 that her mother has a new Fossil watch or see online that she is going to concerts and has a paid Match.com account when she claims she has no money for anything for the kids and screams at my S.O. for "never helping". Of course, she screams that at him even when he does send them back with clothes. So it's also important to remember that if she *feels* that he hasn't helped that is going to be her reality no matter what he does.

I guess in the end all we can do is stay focused on the kids and figure out between us what our boundary should be. Once we do that maybe a frank discussion with the kids is in order.

Other than dealing with custody, this is the hardest issue there is, in my opinion. It's a double whammy because it's "don't put kids in the middle" as well as protecting yourself financially.

Just thinking out loud here -- you guys are doing the most important thing, which is to modify custody. When the kids are with you, and they have needs (as opposed to wants), you are helping them. When their mom asks for money, your SO says no. That's a really solid foundation. You're handling this well.

So the other part is, how do you support the kids, knowing you can't control their mom and what she does with the money? And also helping them learn how to earn money, instead of mooching, or being wasteful. You can control this kind of stuff with the kids, so maybe that's the place to focus.

Instead of focusing on their mom and how she manages money, maybe you focus on their resourcefulness? "We send money to your mom every month so that you kids can get hair cuts and glasses. She may not be managing her money very well, so let's think of a way you can earn money, and we'll help you manage it so you learn good money management."

Can you give them a goal to work toward? Like grades, or joining a team, or reading a certain number of books? Some behavior you would like them to develop so they learn how to manage money, and not treat you like an ATM machine?

[Nope]

So the other part is, how do you support the kids, knowing you can't control their mom and what she does with the money? And also helping them learn how to earn money, instead of mooching, or being wasteful. You can control this kind of stuff with the kids, so maybe that's the place to focus.

Can you give them a goal to work toward? Like grades, or joining a team, or reading a certain number of books? Some behavior you would like them to develop so they learn how to manage money, and not treat you like an ATM machine?

I'll talk to their dad about maybe setting up little bank accounts for them. It's a tough situation when we only see them a handful of times per year. We don't dare send them home with money as it will "go missing" like other things of value we've sent them back with have in the past. But maybe if we set them up accounts and they get good grades and help around the house during six weeks of summer when they are here maybe that would work. I bought a highly recommended book on teaching children about money management. It's just really hard to get all the learning in when they come to us needing haircuts, medical care, not knowing basic things like tying their shoes (S9) and summer homework that they need done to set them up for the next school year which we know she won't help them with when they go back. So, all that, plus any amount of fun and family building needs to be accomplished in six weeks, every other spring break, every other Christmas and the occassional long weekend when we fly out and stay in a hotel to see them. But thanks for the input as addressing the money issue does give us a place to start.