Interfering with visitation?

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Can someone please give me some guidance?

My DH's BiPDexWife comes to the kids activities on our time. (Specifically I am talking about non-school activities such as soccer and piano practice.). In fact, we think she purposely signs the kids up for activities on our days so that she can see them on our time and prevent us from bonding with them.  (The kids flock to her when she is there because they know that she rules the roost and want to make sure she's happy.). My husband goes to activities (the few there are) on her time when he can but he travels for work and therefore isn't able to most of the time. And I think he only goes on her days because she goes on his. In other words, he would be okay not going on her days but thinks he needs to when he can to fight fire with fire so to speak.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because we are going to court soon and it is very possible the kids could end up spending time with me when their dad is out of town.  (This currently happens 1 to sometimes 2 nights a month.). Last month we had an incident where she almost didn't leave the kids with me since their dad was not yet home from work.  She said the kids were upset being with me when their dad isn't home which is ridiculous as they have known me for 5+ years and I've been married to their dad for 3 of them.  So... . I'm wondering... . does anyone know how this is supposed to work?  Can we have her prevented from going to the kids non-school activities on our days or do I need to get a metal backbone as LivedandLearned always says?  Admittedly, I am a wimp and hate conflict. I get sick to my stomach when I know I will see her by myself with the kids and I know she will make it awful for them too just like she did last month. She got them all upset about staying with me which is very sad. 20 seconds after she left, they were fine of course but I hate for them to go through the agony she puts them through because she can't handle them spending a little time with me.  It's just so unfair to them. 

Is it okay (legally) for her to come to activities on our days?  Am I being a pathetic wimp?  Does anyone have any advice or info they can share?

[DoxieLover]

Can someone please give me some guidance?

My DH's BiPDexWife comes to the kids activities on our time. (Specifically I am talking about non-school activities such as soccer and piano practice.). In fact, we think she purposely signs the kids up for activities on our days so that she can see them on our time and prevent us from bonding with them.  (The kids flock to her when she is there because they know that she rules the roost and want to make sure she's happy.). My husband goes to activities (the few there are) on her time when he can but he travels for work and therefore isn't able to most of the time. And I think he only goes on her days because she goes on his. In other words, he would be okay not going on her days but thinks he needs to when he can to fight fire with fire so to speak.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because we are going to court soon and it is very possible the kids could end up spending time with me when their dad is out of town.  (This currently happens 1 to sometimes 2 nights a month.). Last month we had an incident where she almost didn't leave the kids with me since their dad was not yet home from work.  She said the kids were upset being with me when their dad isn't home which is ridiculous as they have known me for 5+ years and I've been married to their dad for 3 of them.  So... . I'm wondering... . does anyone know how this is supposed to work?  Can we have her prevented from going to the kids non-school activities on our days or do I need to get a metal backbone as LivedandLearned always says?  Admittedly, I am a wimp and hate conflict. I get sick to my stomach when I know I will see her by myself with the kids and I know she will make it awful for them too just like she did last month. She got them all upset about staying with me which is very sad. 20 seconds after she left, they were fine of course but I hate for them to go through the agony she puts them through because she can't handle them spending a little time with me.  It's just so unfair to them. 

Is it okay (legally) for her to come to activities on our days?  Am I being a pathetic wimp?  Does anyone have any advice or info they can share?

[Ishenuts]

My NexH and I share 50/50 custody, split 2/3/5/4 - I am the 2 and 5. Messed up, I know! We've been divorced 2 years.

I can't really reply to the 'step-parent when parent isn't there' issue. We haven't had to deal with that yet. I'd be very curious about others experiences/rulings on that.

As far as activities on the other parents time - plenty of experience with that! Our parenting plan clearly states that we are both allowed to attend all of the children's activities, regardless of whose parenting time it is. Well, my exH convinces my DS11 that he should be involved in a lot of sports, sometimes 3 at a time - 6 to 7 days a week! Although I legally have an equal say (hahaha), my DS holds it against me if I say "no", which the NexH just loves (conflict between my DS and me) And the ex is front and center at all of them, even tries to coach! So I have to see this man, whom I truly can't stand, almost every day of the week! If I don't attend, also, I hear from the DS, "you don't support me. You don't want me to play sports!" (I have to insert here that DS is one of the premier athletes in our town so he is recruited by coaches) And to make matters worse, the ex then offers to do the transporting if I choose to stay home with our other child who doesn't want to spend all of her time at her brother's activities! So not only is my time with my DS reduced by the time he's at practices and games, the ex expects to be with my DS during the commuting time (usually 1/2 hour each way!)

Where I am conflicted is whether it will appear that I am not allowing "free access and unhampered contact and fostering a feeling of affection between the children and the parties" as the parenting plan states. You know he's going to claim that if I have my son's coach transport him, or other parents. Of course, in true Narcissist fashion, he will forget that he consistently asks others to take our children to activities, when he can't attend, even when I will be there.  It is so frustrating!

We will start family therapy shortly. This issue is a big deal to me, especially with how my DS is manipulate by the NexH to think badly about me because of this.

[marbleloser]

"Is it okay (legally) for her to come to activities on our days?"

Yes,it's perfectly ok and legal as long as it's on public property. I attend our kids events and my stbx sometimes does too.

What's wrong with the other parent cheering and encouraging the kiddos? A parent should "want" to spend as much time with the kids as possible.

My question would be,why does your H do it just because she does? Why doesn't he want to be there for his kids?

This is just petty and doesn't serve the best interest of the kids.

As far as the kids being with you on your H's time,there's nothing she can do about,since you're married. You are an intrusted adult.

If you weren't married,she'd have legal right to remove the kids from you,without the H there,as you would just be a third party.

[DoxieLover]

Thank you both for replying. 

Ishenuts - oh my!  Your situation sounds exactly like ours.  DH's ex will offer to transport the kids for us as well which gives her time with them on our time.  My DH used to let her do this every now and then when he knew she was on the verge of an abandonment breakdown but now realizes it's enabling her and giving up on his own time to bond with the kids.  So he doesn't do it anymore.

Marbleloser - I guess I didn't say it well when I said that my husband only goes to the kids events on her time as "payback" so to speak for her doing it on our time.  He loves his kids VERY much and is a wonderful father. I frequently have friends tell me that they are so impressed with how good of a dad he is.  And he does enjoy seeing the kids at their activities.  That said, he doesn't think they need to do activities 6 days a week.  The reason for that is precisely BECAUSE he wants to spend family time with them so that we can do things together as a family.  Not that sports and other activities aren't good for the kids, they are.  But he also thinks it's important for the kids to do things with myself and him as a family. Does that make sense? Also, I meant more that he doesn't want to deal with her when he goes to the kids events on her time.  She says something crappy to him pretty much every time he sees her. So as you can imagine, that gets old after awhile once you've gotten out of that environment and regained some self esteem.

I will give my husband a lot of credit though. Over the years he's gotten very good at shaking things off that she says or does that are rude, inappropriate, "crazy," etc.  Unfortunately, I'm not very good at it.  And the worst for me is when I'm in a situation where it's just me, her, and the kids.  She always says something crappy to me which bothers me but even worse is that she works on the kids.  She says crappy things to them to make them think there is something wrong with being with me when their dad isn't around. Of course they agree with her because they know they will get her rage if they don't.  It's just very uncomfortable and very unfair to the kids (and me for that matter).  Okay I'll stop my pity party now.  Lol. Thanks for listening and chiming in. 

[GaGrl]

To protest Family Time, can you designate one day every week or even two weeks as No Electronics Day? Don't call it Family Day or the PD will freak. Make it about board games or an outdoor activity... . no electronics means she can't interrupt it. And what judge/therapist/GAL could object to No Electronics Day?

[PinkieV]

Hi Doxie,

I just wanted to reach out and let you know about StepMomMag.com.  A friend on there referred me here.  It is a really caring community where you can post about problems and successes and get valuable input. I know it's really hard to be a stepmom with a BPD BM, as I have one too!  Sometimes it's hard to tell whether it's a BPD problem, stepmom problem, both, or neither. I like to get as much information as possible to help me handle it all.

[Nope]

Sometimes it's hard to tell whether it's a BPD problem, stepmom problem, both, or neither. I like to get as much information as possible to help me handle it all.

.

That is very true! The BPD bio mom is very often reacting badly to my presence in the lives of her kids and her ex. But under all of those behaviors I am sure there is a nugget of normal insecurity, jealousy, etc.

Doxie,

It is quite possible that she is showing up to these things on your H's time as a way to maintain control of the situation.

Why does she have the power to set the schedule on your time? If you and your H are going to be responsible for transporting the kids to these activities shouldn't you get some say in the scheduling? Maybe the answer is to figure out what you and he are okay with (knowing full well that she will be there every time) and what you are not. But first you have to be honest with yourselves and figure out if this is just annoying or if it is really a bonding issue.

[DoxieLover]

Gagrl - good idea about no electronics days. We've done those a few times on vacation but have kind of forgotten about them when back at home.  We'll definitely give those a try!

PinkieV - that sounds like a great site!  I'm going to check it out as soon as I log off of here.  Before I got serious with someone who had kids, I always foolishly thought the challenges would center around getting the kids to accept me.  Now I realize how naive I was back then. Lol

Nope - you make some great points. I do think that there is normal jealousy, insecurity, etc.  unfortunately, I think the illness amplifies those feelings and causes them to say and do inappropriate things which make the rest of us uncomfortable to say the least.  Sigh.  And yes, I agree, it is definitely so that she can have some control.  As for her scheduling on our time, well I'm sure you've experienced how that game is played.  For example, she will ask/decide that the kids need to do soccer lessons on Tuesdays (our days) so that she can see them. If we say no then the next thing we know, the kids say, ":)addy, we really want to play soccer but mommy says you won't let us." Or some other similar garbage. In other words, we become the bad guy if we say no.  Does that make sense and have you faced these types of situations?  If so, how did you handle it?  And finally, yes, another good point about this being a bonding issue.  I guess it's probably more of an annoyance for my husband rather than a bonding issue most of the time.  For me, I think it is a little bit of a bonding issue but then, since I'm "just" the stepmom, it's hard to say for sure.  I know for absolutely certain that it's a huge cause of anxiety for me though - especially if I am taking the kids somewhere that she is going to be and their dad isn't with me.  I just hate conflict and therefor have no backbone around her.  Pathetic, huh?

[DreamGirl]

My first piece of advice that might help you in part of your frustration. Try not to use terms like "our time" and "her time" - experts recommend using "the kids time spent with Dad" or "the kids time spent with Mom".

They are the owners here. Mom interfering on "your time" might be seen differently by the children. Soccer practices and games attended by mom and dad can help them feel supported. Statistically speaking, children of divorce state that what they want most is to be able to love both parents free from all of the conflict. They don't want to worry about who they are "supposed" to say hi to first, who they are supposed to be sitting with. Something that won't help them cope is to have the thought running through their head - "Is it Monday? That means mom can't be here today."      

My husband was on the other end of what you are experiencing.

Before he obtained 50/50, he was an every other weekend dad.

So signing kids up for sports was a wonderful way that he could see his girls during the week/weekends they weren't with him. Was it a grand manipulation on his part to interject himself on the time the girls were with their mom? Nah. He just wanted to see his girls.

I do think there are mitigating circumstances when the parents can't get along where the court would intervene that each parent can't be present on the other parent's time at the kiddos' activities. Most court orders encourage both parents participation however.

As far as your taking the kiddos when your husband is out of town - she could actually probably prevail legally with her thoughts about the kids be with her and not you. If she gets a First Right of Refusal written into the custody agreement - meaning that if Dad or Mom isn't available for parenting time, then the other parent gets first choice whether to take the kiddos.

And I think he only goes on her days because she goes on his. In other words, he would be okay not going on her days but thinks he needs to when he can to fight fire with fire so to speak.

 

We're all going to have different values in this.

That's OK. The key to success doesn't usually involve justifying our own [bad] behavior based on another person's [bad] behavior. If he thinks that each parent should not attend activities on the other parent's time because it effects the bonding experience, then he needs to uphold that value for himself before he's ever to request that she not partake in activities that fall on the kids time with their dad.

For my husband, he encourages her participation - but discourages what makes the situations stressful. He doesn't take part in arguments, he doesn't take part in making them choose either parent (he encourages the kids to say hi to their mom), and he doesn't take part in disparagement of the other parent. She does all of those things, because that's part of her suffering from BPD, but he won't change his values based on hers.

You'll find that fighting fire with fire when it comes to the court system usually results in equal distribution of the blame of who is causing the issues. It very rarely helps your case.      

[Nope]

I know for absolutely certain that it's a huge cause of anxiety for me though - especially if I am taking the kids somewhere that she is going to be and their dad isn't with me.  I just hate conflict and therefor have no backbone around her.  Pathetic, huh?

I don't think it is pathetic to not want to feed into someone else's need for control and conflict. In my case the BPD mom would be like a shark smelling blood in the water if I ever gave her any sign that I was in any way avoiding her or uncomfortable around her. I am not the first step mom these kids have had and BPD mom played a pretty big part in killing my fiance's last marriage. As a result, I made sure I began by showing her absolutely nothing she might mistake for fear. I have been there standing right next to him for pick ups and drop offs. I know that if she ever shows up at an activity we are at for the kids that I will do everything in my power to act as natural as possible and even talk to the other parents with kids on the same team. So far I've found that if I act like nothing phases me she will just ignore my existence. The few times I have spoken to her it has been with the same polite detachment I would have for a stranger who is asking me for the time. Yes, her attitude and her attacks on me to the kids does feel personal but it really isn't. The only thing she really wants me to do is go away. No matter what she says or does, she doesn't actually know me enough to hate me and all her made up reasons are just excuses for her to behave the only way she knows how.

[DoxieLover]

DreamGirl - thanks for the tip about not saying "our time" and "her time."  I'll try to remember that. 

My husband and I agree about the kids not having to worry about which parent to say hi to first when they come off the stage so to speak. We always sit with her and her family at the kids events so things will be good for the kids.  And I guess the more I read everyone's comments and the more I think about things, I'm really the one with the problem.  I just hate conflict and hearing all the crappy things she says.  But as you guys say, I need to learn that it's not personal.  She is sick and lashes out because she doesn't know how to self soothe or any other way to handle herself.  And I can understand that it would be hard to see your kids with a step parent. I just wish she could relax and realize that she is their mom and will always be their favorite.  I'm just the stepmom. 

Also, to clarify, when I said my husband would be okay not seeing the kids when they are with her, I didn't mean that he doesn't love them or doesn't want to see them as much as possible.  I just meant that he can respect that she needs time to be with them saying and doing whatever she wants to without him there. You know what I mean?

My DH and his ex did have a right of first refusal in their original divorce decree.  However, we are living under a temp order right now after her second suicide attempt so that's not in play.  Because of the suicide attempts, we don't think it's in the kids best interest to have going forward. The reason is that if she attempts suicide again at some point while my husband is out of town for work, she will most likely not be in a healthy mental state right afterwards to be able to take care of them in a healthy way.  That said, the kids are rarely with me when DH is out of town. When it does happen, it's usually for 12 hours or less with the one exception being holidays.  Sometimes, I will have them for 24-36 hours at the holidays without him but I always take them to visit their grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins and he meets us there as soon as he can. So they are spending the time with their blood family, not just with me.

Nope - yes, I think you are right. I think she is probably more uncomfortable around me than I am her. Unfortunately the only way she knows how to handle it is to pick on everything I say and do.  So yes, I think you are right that if I stand firm and don't show fear, she will back off. Perhaps I need to look into some ways to reduce my anxiety around her.  Thank you for the affirmation that I'm not pathetic to not want to be around who sucks the air of the room.  It's refreshing to know that I'm not alone.