"Wrong Coat Hanger"

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I'm surprised my brain hasn't had a real mental breakdown that has sent me to the hospital yet. She gets home and I apparently hung my coat on the wrong hanger. She says "Stop putting you coat on this hanger its mine." Then takes my coat off of it and throws it on the floor.  There were 5 other hangers all identical next to where i had my coat.

The topper was when we were going to bed. She says "Have fun on your vacation." I replyied where amd I going? "South Carolina to look to see if we want to move there." Cool when? She then says... . "You would go by yourself?"  I should have stopped it righ there. But my moth opened and said "Only if there were not other way for you to go"... .

Let em translat that for you. The words I said were "Only if there were not other way for you to go"  What she heard was "Yes  I get to go without my wife and I can bring any other woman I want and have agood time without my wife becasue I can't stnafd to be around her and want her to suffer."     

I was supposed to say "I'd never go wthout you. I can't function wiothout you."  She told me she was testing my responce. I failed. She got very angry. And doing so said I should be trying to get close and hold her while she is verbally ripping my head off. When I refused she went to level 10 onthe anger scale. She couldn't understand that she was making herself unaproachable. She said it doesn't matter you never ever do that to some one you love no matter how angry they are at you.   Then i listened to 20 mins of how I am the casue of her misery and that when she sees me beiing happy for no reason it makes her even more angry and depressed and wondering who I am having an affair with to be so happy.

[Cipher13]

I'm surprised my brain hasn't had a real mental breakdown that has sent me to the hospital yet. She gets home and I apparently hung my coat on the wrong hanger. She says "Stop putting you coat on this hanger its mine." Then takes my coat off of it and throws it on the floor.  There were 5 other hangers all identical next to where i had my coat.

The topper was when we were going to bed. She says "Have fun on your vacation." I replyied where amd I going? "South Carolina to look to see if we want to move there." Cool when? She then says... . "You would go by yourself?"  I should have stopped it righ there. But my moth opened and said "Only if there were not other way for you to go"... .

Let em translat that for you. The words I said were "Only if there were not other way for you to go"  What she heard was "Yes  I get to go without my wife and I can bring any other woman I want and have agood time without my wife becasue I can't stnafd to be around her and want her to suffer."     

I was supposed to say "I'd never go wthout you. I can't function wiothout you."  She told me she was testing my responce. I failed. She got very angry. And doing so said I should be trying to get close and hold her while she is verbally ripping my head off. When I refused she went to level 10 onthe anger scale. She couldn't understand that she was making herself unaproachable. She said it doesn't matter you never ever do that to some one you love no matter how angry they are at you.   Then i listened to 20 mins of how I am the casue of her misery and that when she sees me beiing happy for no reason it makes her even more angry and depressed and wondering who I am having an affair with to be so happy.

[popeye6031]

Jeez mate, it sounds like things never ease up for you.  Just a constant wave of trying to affirm your love for your wife.

Life and marriage should really not be like this.

I think you had said before that you got married fairly quickly.

Do you ever remember a time were it was not like this and it was happy?

[Wrongturn1]

Wow Cipher, that's really unreasonable behavior on your wife's part.  You know you don't have to stay in the room when she turns abusive like that.  You have a right to walk away from the abuse. 

It could go something like this:  Her - "Aha!  I was testing you and you failed... . you're the reason I'm miserable and you must be cheating on me!"  You - "I'm feeling attacked and abused right now.  I'm going downstairs to read for awhile, and I'll be back in about an hour when things are calmer."  Then hastily leave the room.  You don't have to have her permission to make your exit when she turns abusive.  Let her rage and melt down on her own... . it's really not your problem.

[Cipher13]

Do you ever remember a time were it was not like this and it was happy?

They have been rare. Not frequent enough.

Wow Cipher, that's really unreasonable behavior on your wife's part.  You know you don't have to stay in the room when she turns abusive like that.  You have a right to walk away from the abuse. 

I thougth about it. Then she left the room. But I didn't know I was supposed to go after her and consol her. I was ok and fine with how I handled and responded to her until she came back. I don't know how she does it. I went from confident in my words and actions to then sitting there feeling like a 5 year old that is being scoled for breaking a window or something. I felt so helpless. All the wind was taken from my sails. All the confidence squashed. I literally felt like a child again.

[Love Is Not Enough]

But I didn't know I was supposed to go after her and consol her.

That is part of her game and the FOG she has put you in. You will feel insignificant until you get your head above it. You do not need to console her, she verbally attacked you! As soon as she starts in on you and you see that it will go nowhere, then do what Wrongturn1 said. Just get yourself out of the line of fire. Hang onto your confidence and follow through. It will be hard the first few times you do it, but you will see positive results. Then your confidence will soar and the FOG will lift. Do not wait until she leaves. Take control by leaving first. Do not engage in their sick games.

[Wrongturn1]

It's tough, Cipher, dealing with someone with BPD, and I get what you mean about turning into a 5-year-old.  

We as "nons" have our own dysfunctions that kick in when the BPD dysregulation starts.  I sometimes get panic attacks, with high blood pressure and trembling/shaking, when my uBPDw starts in.  Pushing through our own dysfunctions and using the tools here and elsewhere is what we have to do to create healthier situations for ourselves.

[Cipher13]

I'm so so sick of this. I'm done trying. This statement from her has put me in such a depressed state of mind I can't function at all today.   Her "Why are you keeping me with you?  So you can continue to torture me with your ignorance and hurtful behavior?

I'm so numb to the world I could careless about anything right now. I'm not going to do these tools. I'm done with learning to use tools to deal with her. I am worn right down to the burning pit in my stomach. I just want it to stop. Just stop already!

[maxsterling]

Wow.  This incident just illustrates the complete illogic of the pwBPD thinking.  I'm truly sorry you are dealing with this.  It's completely unfair for her to put this back on you, as if you are FORCING her to be with you.  Mine does similar, but not quite that direct.  Instead she will complain about us not having any money, and how this or that needs to be done, as if I am forcing her to live this way, when she CHOSE to live with me, she CHOSE to not have a job, she CHOSE to give up her previous job to move her, she CHOSE to overspend, etc.  I had nothing to do with any of it.  pwBPD do not understand that they are in control over their own lives, and their choices can affect the way their lives go. 

And I'm with you, at some point there is just no point in even using the tools.  Just be true to yourself, and if she dysregulates, you did not cause that.

[lauren50]

It amazes me how the behavior is so similar with pwBPD. My husband "tests" me all the time and when I fail, because there's never a way for me to win, I feel the same helpless feeling you feel. I got asked today why I'm with him. Like there's a right answer to THAT question. I *could* say because I love him, but then I'm just lying, you know   Hugs to you Cipher.

[Surnia]

Hi Cipher

What about just being assertive? "Stop this! I don't want to hear this again."

This is no tool, it is your reality. You are sick about it. I would be too. What about just telling her this with all your energy left? If you feel sick about it, the only person who can do something against the sickness is you.

[Cipher13]

Ever since I have first found and tried every tool associates with BPD I have found that I have changed to some degree for the better. Sometimes I have not seen it within myslef. However my wife has seen this and it ticks her off to no end. She constantly asks my why I have changed and why i am not as loving and fall over her hand and foot. "What has happend to you? What is wrong with you? Why have you changed?"  These are all the questiosn I get.

I want to tell her the absolute truth... Because I had to you need help you need therapy. I am this way becasue of you. I had to change becasue of you. You have an illness. But I know it will be  waste of words with no possibulity of anythign possitive.  So I tak the verbal tongue lashing. Any effort I make to say soemthing is cut down or interupted. So I just sit and listen and nod my head.

She is expecting a sincere and moving apology when she gets home tonight. 

[Surnia]

Ever since I have first found and tried every tool associates with BPD I have found that I have changed to some degree for the better.

This is interesting. Perhaps you can tell a bit more wich tool worked for you and what exactly was better for some degrees?

[Wrongturn1]

She is expecting a sincere and moving apology when she gets home tonight. 

Well obviously you are not satisfied with how things are going, so I would encourage you to experiment with breaking the status quo tonight. 

If she asks for an apology when you get home tonight, why not refuse?  You could tell her you have already apologized for the things you need to apologize for and that you won't be apologizing again since it's not healthy for either of you.  What's more, you could tell her that her statement today was rude and unacceptable and that you won't continue to subject yourself to that kind of treatment.  Then stand firm and leave the situation when she starts to go bonkers. 

Think about how much better you would feel about yourself if you start to stand up to her and refuse to let her abuse you.  This could be a turning point for you. 

[Wrongturn1]

Hey Cipher, any updates on how things went the other day?  Hoping everything is OK over there.

[Cipher13]

I'm not sure what is going on. Based on last night she was pretty much ready to be done with the marriage. She suggested I might want to surprize her with soemthing at work. So I order something to be sent there. Last night she says I don't wan tot get introuble cancel it. I said but you told me you wanted me to. Some how that was the wrong thing to say. "So I made you send me soemthing. Nice. Jerk!"  I said I ment that she gave me the suggestion. But the damage was done. Then it escalated into everything I said that she took out of context or felt that was preceived as mean or cruel.


Today she seems ok. The back and forth is driving me crazy. If I drank I would be an alcholic by now.  I mentioned I wanted to a guitar and lean to play. I had one when I was in middle scholl but didn't learn to really play it. I asked to maybe start up learnign to play and use soem tax retunr money for one. No it should be used for other things. I know what she ment. She ment when she quits or gets fired we have some moeny to pay bills.

[Waddams]

She's doing these things on purpose.  It's the standard push/pull dynamic.  She's purposely trying to confuse you so she can get you to go back to the way you were, and be more easily controlled.  The best way is to deal with this is not play the game.  Understand there's a possibility she's going to change her mind about something she says again.  So when she initially approaches you about the next thing, it's okay to decline to participate then.  Politely tell her you don't feel comfortable doing it.  If she asks why, be honest.  Tell her because of the recent history of these things being turned suddenly and you don't want it to happen again.

She'll get angry anyway, might as well set a boundary that you won't tolerate the push/pull from her.

And if she states she's done with the marriage again... . call the bluff.  Tell her okay and ask her since she wants out, ask her what her plans for leaving are and say that if her mind is made up, you'll want to make it as collaborative and stress free process for you both as you can.

Also, have you considered that since BPD's are big projectionists of what they themselves are doing, perhaps a lot of her accusations towards you are really her guilty conscious as she's actually doing them?  Such as the constant accusation of infidelity?

[Cipher13]

Also, have you considered that since BPD's are big projectionists of what they themselves are doing, perhaps a lot of her accusations towards you are really her guilty conscious as she's actually doing them?  Such as the constant accusation of infidelity?

I have. However I can see alot if here accusations towrads me within her. Except for the granddady the infidelity.   There was 1 time in our relationship that she cheated. It was early in our engagement. At first she tried to play it off as a possible rape but quickly changed her story when I was going to involve athorities and things didn't match.  Never 1 single time can I recall anything that would lead me to beleive she would cheat. Maybe because I am not a person who's mind always goes there.

We had a pretty good weekend. A few things came out that bothered me. I have noticed that when I make a comment that she does not like she can twist it to be that I am being cruel and hurtful to her feelings.

Example: She is studying for an exam that is rather difficult. She didn't pass the first time. I have helped her in the past with studying. I don't mind helping but don't like that it feels like a requiement. She has asked a couple times if I will help. That means I read a bunch of stuff from her notes and she gives me the answer. I said no couldn't you just read it right now. I don't want to right now. That was mean an insesative of me. I can not tell her no. That exactly what she said.  If she is asking me in a polite manner to do soemthign for her I am not to say no. Then she says that works both ways. So I tried this. I asked if I could not help today and maybe another time. She did say yes but wasn't happy abou tit and said then I had to every day then.


We will see hw this goes. She also said she wants to adopt a child and said I have to start being nicer to her so we can do this.

[Wrongturn1]

We will see hw this goes. She also said she wants to adopt a child and said I have to start being nicer to her so we can do this.

I'm sure you understand this already, but having a BPD mom would be a bad thing for the adopted child.  It wouldn't help your wife either as she would still be miserable because she has a severe mental illness. 

I got a vasectomy 3 years before I found out about BPD in large part because, as far as I could tell, my wife did not like or appreciate the 2 kids we have already (she mostly just complained about them; usually did not say anything good about them).  Now that I understand BPD, I would never consider having the vasectomy reversed or adopting more kids.  It would be unfair to the adopted child to bring him/her into a home with my uBPDw.

[Cipher13]

I'm sure you understand this already, but having a BPD mom would be a bad thing for the adopted child.  It wouldn't help your wife either as she would still be miserable because she has a severe mental illness. 

I totally understand and this is the reason I have not brought a child into this relationship. We have 3 dogs and I can see just from that how if they do not do exactly what she had wanted them to she more or less ignores them. Well thats not totally true. She is jjst that way for the middle dog. It was supposed to be a small lap dog that would cuddle with her. It is some what independent but friendly. The 3rd dog is the lap dog she wanted but it is some what mean to the middle dog.  So I see how she treats the dogs and she thinks they are either the best or they just ignor her and she says "whatever".

Last night was the first time in a while I can officially say to myself 100% confidently that I did nothing wrong to hurt her feelings and she still claimed I did.  This time I was ready and spent a lot of time making sure there was not confusion on my part.  It snowed alot yesterday intot the evening. So I said I need to shovel the driveway or I will not be able to get out in the morning. She said she would do it... . I asked if she wanted my heavy winter clothes and I would get them. So I did and I also began to put my stuff on to help. Afterwords she said I hurt her feelings making her go out to shovel. I reminded her that she said she would do it and I was right out there behind her. She said but you just let me and told me you would bundle me up. Then said things she normally does in a mocking tone "you said get out there and shovel bhit". Knowing 100% those words never came out of my mouth. I said you know thats not what happpened at all. She wanted to fight but couldn't. Nothing was there for her to grasp on to not a sliver of anything. Not even when she said she did most of the work. (Knowing she didn't) I just said yup and rubbed her shoulders.

[Wrongturn1]

Cipher: nicely done - glad to hear you stood your ground when she started trying to re-write history.  That's a step in the right direction!   

[Cipher13]

Thanks. Now fo rthe new one. Well is nto new but its turned up again. She blames my job for out issues. Because I have told here I can't email and text like she wants and that we have a sercurity level that won't allow people witout id badge sin the building that is a problem and she hates my job. The fact I enjoy what I do pushes her over the edge. She said she wants me out of my job. I said I'd try to find soemthing but I like it. I was supposed to say yes I'll do what ever it takes make you happy.  So question... . what about my happiness? Does that count? Not in her mind. My happiness is when she is happy. Thats what it seems like. I have said that to her before. I only want her to be happy. I do but the cost is killing me.

[Waddams]

It's okay to politely tell her you enjoy your job and don't want to leave it.  Jobs you enjoy are not as commons as jobs you do but don't necessarily enjoy.  Hold on to it for as long as you can!

When she dysregulates, egress the area.  What I used to do, when i could, was leave, then explain LATER what I wouldn't tolerate when she wasn't dysregulated.  Once they're in a rage, no point in talking at all.  They won't listen, they won't even hear.

[Cipher13]

Had a couseling with wife lastnight that went pretty good... . for me it seemed pretty good. A couple items that were addressed were handling arguments when needing to find a way to calm down.

The example used was the time she was angry and yelling and I made the attemt to leave the house for walk to calm down. She blocked the bedroom door and the only way out was to physically remove her from the doorway. So I backed off and sat on the bed. Thats not how I wanted to calm down and she wasn't calm either. She wanted to calm em down adn her method was to isolate me. T said it woudl be good to have our own methods not the methods of the other to help calm down. My wife when we got home said thats not happening. You will never walk away or out of the house when you are angry. I will calm you down.

The second item was that T addressed my wife as needing to try ot also remeber that when she is upset over a comment that she not then solely focus on all the negative aspects without tryin gto bring in a few positive ones. Trying to prevent tunnel vision of all things are bad when she is upset. T suggested to her to write down some fond memories and store them in a book and go back to them from time to time especially if upset or feelings are hurt.  Of course my wife was not for this and why shoudl she have to do anything its not her fault I am mean to her. She did nothing wrong. Then my wife while at home says flat out she isn't doing it and that its dumb. She began to argue that I shouldn't be so up beat over talking about the same crap in therapy that both of us talk about every day. Just because T says same thing its mor eimportant now than when your wife said it. I explained it wasn't those things that I got a boost from it was all of the other things and those combined. Seems like you are argueing about soemthign that is positive and not wanting to move forward  with positive.  I felt good. She felt horrible.

[Waddams]

Little kids have tantrums when they don't get their way too.

Her blocking you from leaving is actually an arrestable offense.  Maybe the T needs to remind her of that.  Sometimes BPD's just don't respect anything other the proverbial gun to their head.

[Love Is Not Enough]

T said it woudl be good to have our own methods not the methods of the other to help calm down. My wife when we got home said thats not happening. You will never walk away or out of the house when you are angry. I will calm you down.

T suggested to her to write down some fond memories and store them in a book and go back to them from time to time especially if upset or feelings are hurt.  Of course my wife was not for this and why shoudl she have to do anything its not her fault I am mean to her. She did nothing wrong. Then my wife while at home says flat out she isn't doing it and that its dumb.

She obviously does not care what anyone has to say and is not open to any suggestions. I personally do not believe in couples counseling until a pwBPD has progressed (or matured) to a point where you can have a semi-reasonable conversation with them about uncomfortable subjects. That has been my experience so far. I do not foresee anymore couples counseling in my RS anytime soon, but maybe someday.

I agree with Waddams. Drastic situations take drastic measures sometimes. Next time she won't let you leave just calmly call the police and tell them you are being held against your will. Stop engaging her and wait for them to show up. They will get you out of there.

[Cipher13]

I didn't have a lot of expectations with couples therapy either but my thought here was that she has respect for T and had made a lot of progress with her anxiety disorders with this T. There is a level of trust there I thought might help.

Her mom contacted me out of the blue this morning to see how things are going. I laid it right there for her. It was a very good converstion. She said that I have been to much of a push over and let her get away with too much. I agree. The situation becomes mor ehostile when I point that out to my wife. I told her this to. Then she told me she acts and reacts to things just like her sister does. Isolates herself and family like her sister does. Fights with the same rage as her sister it sounds like.  And most of all has to be right and is not at fault or wrong.

I feel like I am getting closer and closer to that good place in my life mentally. These conversations help a great deal. If I choose to leve this realtionship I will have given myslef the knowledge I have tried everything I could and be comfortable in my decision.

[Grey Kitty]

  Good job handling it.

Some perspective on what she's doing: Her feelings are hurt. She doesn't have the emotional capacity to own that. So she "invents" a way to make you responsible for it. My wife did it a LOT.

Hold tight to your own reality. You know what you were trying to do. Don't doubt yourself just because she makes up a bogus story. You already know that trying to correct her bogus story is a losing proposition.