Chaos and the effect of chaos...

[Depression = 72% of members]

In the 45 days since the b/u and 30+ days n/c from my uBPD/NPD ex gf, I've really come to understand the effects of chaos on me and my life during the 3+ years of the r/s.  I've seen the term here "chaos manufacturer" and that a trait of PD's is addiction to chaos. 

I'll start out with me - since the end of the r/s, I've reestablished calm and serenity back in my life.  I am now energized to workout and be the positive, loving person to myself and those around me.  My T stated it the best: "chaos happens, but shouldn't be the rule".  That is so true of how I need to function healthy in my life. 

Now onto my ex: she exhibited more WAIF BPD and vulnerable NPD traits than some of the rage type BPD traits.  Believe me, there were rages though.  Her life was nothing short of chaotic and it used to drive me nuts that she'd run to me or vomit on me about all her her stress caused by the chaos.

She has three young kids (S6, S8, D10) and subscribed to "unconditional parenting" that resembled more "non parenting".  All three kids slept with her; there were virtually no rules in the house nor structure; and there were no rewards or punishments for good and poor behavior.  All three kids have anxiety and two of them have impulse/rage issues similar to their mom (3 year old meltdowns).  They especially struggle adapting to situations outside of the home and they were often times out of control when they came over to my home.  She refused to cooperate or communicate properly with the kid's dad to help create any kind of continuity between the homes.

I helped her move from her marital home prior to her divorce.  The place looked like she was a hoarder.  I mean it was so trashed and full of junk it was almost impossible to clear out. 

My ex's rental home was almost always trashed.  I mean it was dirty and a mess even with a cleaning person every other week.  It was not uncommon for soiled underpants to be laying on the front porch or in the LR.  I wouldn't often stay over at her house when the kids were at their dad's because she didn't have clean sheets on her bed (all three kids slept with her). 

She went through a "car accident" phase of about three or four accidents in about a one year period. 

She would go weeks at a time without going through her mail and was terrible at paying bills.  She still had over $100k in student loans and maxed credit cards even considering a six figure income and $3k/month in child support coming in.  She had no budget and just started a 401k with my encouragement.  She really had no savings or rainy day fund.

She was almost always horribly late for everything.  I understand having three kids is tough, but we are talking hours late at times.

While being a veterinarian, she neglected the care of her older dog due, as she stated it, the pet being from her previous marriage.  The poor dog was treated poorly for the last couple years of its life.

Even though she's an athlete and obviously well educated, she didn't take care of herself.  She went over 20 years without going to the dentist and hasn't had a gyn checkup in years. 

She would justify living like this saying that to home school the kids, work close to full time, be physically active and have time to spend with me, she consciously made the decision to neglect those other areas of her life.  When I pushed for some change and attempted to show support for change (parenting, home cleanliness, timeliness, financial responsibility, etc.), again she'd state spending time with me prevented her from doing all of those adult things.  She'd also punish me after the fact by complaining about having to do these things because of me.

Back to chaos - what is it?  Is it a state of mind when we feel things are out of control?  Do those with PD's not really feel or understand the negative effect of chaos on themselves and others?  Is chaos manufacturing a trait of BPD?  Again, I just function better with reduced chaos and I have to believe that is the trait of a healthy person.  Am I all wet here?

[Madison66]

In the 45 days since the b/u and 30+ days n/c from my uBPD/NPD ex gf, I've really come to understand the effects of chaos on me and my life during the 3+ years of the r/s.  I've seen the term here "chaos manufacturer" and that a trait of PD's is addiction to chaos. 

I'll start out with me - since the end of the r/s, I've reestablished calm and serenity back in my life.  I am now energized to workout and be the positive, loving person to myself and those around me.  My T stated it the best: "chaos happens, but shouldn't be the rule".  That is so true of how I need to function healthy in my life. 

Now onto my ex: she exhibited more WAIF BPD and vulnerable NPD traits than some of the rage type BPD traits.  Believe me, there were rages though.  Her life was nothing short of chaotic and it used to drive me nuts that she'd run to me or vomit on me about all her her stress caused by the chaos.

She has three young kids (S6, S8, D10) and subscribed to "unconditional parenting" that resembled more "non parenting".  All three kids slept with her; there were virtually no rules in the house nor structure; and there were no rewards or punishments for good and poor behavior.  All three kids have anxiety and two of them have impulse/rage issues similar to their mom (3 year old meltdowns).  They especially struggle adapting to situations outside of the home and they were often times out of control when they came over to my home.  She refused to cooperate or communicate properly with the kid's dad to help create any kind of continuity between the homes.

I helped her move from her marital home prior to her divorce.  The place looked like she was a hoarder.  I mean it was so trashed and full of junk it was almost impossible to clear out. 

My ex's rental home was almost always trashed.  I mean it was dirty and a mess even with a cleaning person every other week.  It was not uncommon for soiled underpants to be laying on the front porch or in the LR.  I wouldn't often stay over at her house when the kids were at their dad's because she didn't have clean sheets on her bed (all three kids slept with her). 

She went through a "car accident" phase of about three or four accidents in about a one year period. 

She would go weeks at a time without going through her mail and was terrible at paying bills.  She still had over $100k in student loans and maxed credit cards even considering a six figure income and $3k/month in child support coming in.  She had no budget and just started a 401k with my encouragement.  She really had no savings or rainy day fund.

She was almost always horribly late for everything.  I understand having three kids is tough, but we are talking hours late at times.

While being a veterinarian, she neglected the care of her older dog due, as she stated it, the pet being from her previous marriage.  The poor dog was treated poorly for the last couple years of its life.

Even though she's an athlete and obviously well educated, she didn't take care of herself.  She went over 20 years without going to the dentist and hasn't had a gyn checkup in years. 

She would justify living like this saying that to home school the kids, work close to full time, be physically active and have time to spend with me, she consciously made the decision to neglect those other areas of her life.  When I pushed for some change and attempted to show support for change (parenting, home cleanliness, timeliness, financial responsibility, etc.), again she'd state spending time with me prevented her from doing all of those adult things.  She'd also punish me after the fact by complaining about having to do these things because of me.

Back to chaos - what is it?  Is it a state of mind when we feel things are out of control?  Do those with PD's not really feel or understand the negative effect of chaos on themselves and others?  Is chaos manufacturing a trait of BPD?  Again, I just function better with reduced chaos and I have to believe that is the trait of a healthy person.  Am I all wet here?

[seeking balance]

Back to chaos - what is it?  Is it a state of mind when we feel things are out of control? 

Chaos for a pwBPD is a result of living based in emotions that are overpowering - survival even in the chaos is the goal.

Do those with PD's not really feel or understand the negative effect of chaos on themselves and others? 

They are surviving - chaos is more normal to them than to you, so they do it better than you.

Is chaos manufacturing a trait of BPD? 

chaos is a result of living in emotional responses rather than discipline and logic - mature responses.

Again, I just function better with reduced chaos and I have to believe that is the trait of a healthy person.  Am I all wet here?

Emotionally mature people tend to make decisions based in a wise mind - actually Scott Peck talks about this in Road Less Traveled.

So, the million dollar question for you - why did you go into 3 years of chaos?  What purpose did it serve for you?

[Madison66]

Great question, SB.  We had kid free weekends every other week and those times were generally good.  Once she got back with the kids (70% of the time) things would get crazy.  I can say that I lived for the free time together and struggled mightily with the balance.  Then I tried to keep the chaos at arms length, but that didn't work.  So, being in the r/s with all the chaos did not serve me well and I'm understanding that now.  My r/s decisions in the future will not look like this.  I need to be with a mature minded person who sees life similar to how I do.  I still shake my head at how someone would want all the chaos in their life other than probably being addicted to it.

[seeking balance]

  My r/s decisions in the future will not look like this.  I need to be with a mature minded person who sees life similar to how I do. 

I still shake my head at how someone would want all the chaos in their life other than probably being addicted to it.

Madison - I want to challenge your thinking here... . this is a site devoted to a very real mental illness - BPD

Do you think someone chooses to be mentally ill?

[Madison66]

Point taken, SB.  My non mind still has trouble getting my arms around it... .

[seeking balance]

Point taken, SB.  My non mind still has trouble getting my arms around it... .

This is truly the sad part - one can only hope that with enough "chaos", they do look in the mirror.  But this disorder tends to exist just to deny itself, honestly.

We cannot save them, the best we can do is not add to the pain... . which is really, really hard when we are in our own pain.

For me to accept it (it was a process and I was kicking and screaming to) I kinda surrendered to the facts and started looking at the pwBPD patterns of behavior and tried to fit them into the criteria of the disorder - like a puzzle.

When I was able to do this, my ability to totally let go and grieve really amplified.