court hearing yesterday

[kyoko]

Hi everyone. 

Just had court hearing yesterday and I'm so shocked and sad about what was ordered.  The judge dismissed all recommendations of mediation.  (Although I was not happy with mediators report either.  She minimized stbx's hx of physical violence, threats and stbx's behavior during mediation).  The mediator recommended that stbxh get only sat nights until sunday evening and two after school visits until stbxh go to coparenting.  After coparenting she recommended he get additional overnight on wed. 

The judge ordered that stbx get four consecutive overnights every other week, every other mon. nights and thurs after school visit on my four day weekend.  Just so upset and shocked that there was no thought or discussion about his PA and lies to my two daughters.  My youngest daughter told the mediator that she had heard "bad things about grandparents and about mom popping pills, crazy and does not really love them (just a minute amount of what they really hear), but she doesn't want to talk about it.  My oldest daughter has been almost fully brainwashed by stbxh and denys and will not talk about anything to anyone about stbx behavior.  My oldest D also implicated at mediation interview that I was the cause of his yelling and saying awful things.  The mediator said that she feels there is a family value of not discussing family issues.  Also, the mediator saw stbxh's demeanor and behavior during mediation and said in the report that his behavior was concerning.

The judge was also told of the incident that happened just the night before court that he was yelling and telling d's that I'm taking pills, I'm evil for taking them away from him, I don't really love them, ect. AND physically shoving me out of the house and trying to slam the door on me when picking them up.  However, most of the time spent with the judge was talking about me being a stay at home mom, working a little though, and stbxh having the burden of paying for everything when I lived with him.  Hardly anything about what his behavior is like and how it can affect the girls.  My lawyer did try to discuss the mediation report but I just can't understand what happened.  Why it was so easily dismissed.

My youngest daughter asked me last night "how did daddy get so much more time with us."  This is because he has been telling them all these lies

that I'm on drugs, "I" have lied to the court so daddy might not get much time with you, ect. ect.  Now I feel they might be getting the impression that all these lies he's telling them are true.  I know that stbxh will be brainwashing them about that.  I just hope that them not living in that enviroment 100% of time will be enough for them.  And maybe since I was stbx's target he won't get triggered and hopefully neither of them will become his target.  I feel helpless not knowing what will be going on or being said during their time with him and sad that I will get so much less time with them

It's so true, as you all know, how hard it is to describe how horrible it is to live with someone with a PD.  And how damaging it can be for children.

Sorry for all the rambling.  I'm so glad to have this site where I can read, get advise, and vent from people who understand.

[david]

As I have been told numerous times on this site, "This is not a race but a marathon." Document, document, document.

My xBPDw ran away in 2007. I was originally given EOW and Monday. Today I have 45% overnights during school year and 50/50 during the summer. I am currently seeking more time during the school year since I do 90% of all school work.

Staying focused on the kids needs and learning how to listen so you can figure out what they are telling you goes a long way. Because of all the bs I have become a much better parent. I have stepsons (her kids from first marriage). One is total NC with his mom. I have a great relationship with him. Another sees his mom for the major hiolidays and little more. I have a great relationship with him. Another has a serious substance abuse issue and doesn't talk to me or his brothers. His mom enables him and there is not much I can do at this time. I am sure he knows I would help if he truely wanted help. Stay focused on the kids. Read Divorce Poison by Bill Eddy.

[ForeverDad]

For you and the separation/divorce process:

Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Bill Eddy & Randi Kreger

For your parenting:

Divorce Poison

Richard Warshak

Plus many other resources of course.

[david]

Yes, you need to separate the divorce and the kids. Divorce and custody are court games. You need to learn the rules and how to play the game. The better I got at learning the rules the better I got in court. It wasn't just me but the attorney I picked, what I needed to give to the attorney, and also what I wanted the attorney to accompliosh. Clear goals and a plan that works with the rules is how you win.

Learning how to parent when one parent is unable, has a mental health issue, is constantly fighting battles that have nothing to do with the kids, etc. is also a learning process. I parallel parent because co parenting is not possible in my situation. However, I also learned that giving the right circumstances I can help our kids by guiding ex to do the right thing. The trick for me is to make her believe it is her idea. That isn't always easy. In 2007 when the s*** hit the fan I couldn't have done anything like this at all. Over the last six years I learned. It was slow in the beggining but it did get better. I now have confidence that our kids will get through this much better than I thought in the beginning.

In 2007, ex dropped the boys off once. They walked in the door and said in unison, "We hate you and want to live with mom. We never want to see you again."    Today, our oldest (15) sees mom for what she is. Our youngest (10) has opened up and talks to me about everything on his mind. They both trust me that I will listen, take their concerns seriously, try to help them work things out. They tell their mom practically nothing in order to protect themselves. They have learned that telling mom something may trigger her and they will pay the price.I don't like that but I accept it as the way it is. Most of the things are normal kid stuff but their mom doesn't like anything that challenges her view of how things should be or are.

[kyoko]

Thank you for all the great advise.  It is true, I not knowing how the court system works with these kinds of people, I think I didn't disclose to my lawyer a thorough account of the stbx's behavior.  I held back in some instances because of the brainwashing he has done on me to think that I was being "evil" for exposing him and my "dysfunction?" of not wanting to feel that I'm hurting someone or "ruining their life."  As I write this I feel so ashamed of myself for my kids sake when he was willing to say and do anything to win.  Thank you Foreverdad and David for the advice and will get these books and use the advice.

[sanemom]

I would advise that you find a therapist who has experience dealing with parental alienation... . even if it is a court ordered therapist.  Put it in the guise of helping your kids deal with the divorce.  Make sure the therapist talks with both you and their dad (so not considered biased by the courts).  Have the therapist help them process what they are hearing.  The therapist may be helpful for court one day, but he/she will definitely be helpful in helping you work with your kids.

[livednlearned]

You might be able to find a reunification therapist who helps deal with alienation more specifically. I'm willing to bet that most reunification therapists are familiar with PDs.

[david]

I found a therapist for myself. It took several tries before I found one that worked for me. In order to help my kids I needed to get my head straight. My ex had me doubting myself about a lot of things including my parenting ability. Once I figured out what held me back I was able to go forward. Ex doesn't faze me anymore when she makes false, crazy, twisted claims. I save them all. I only communicate through email to protect myself from false allegations of verbal abuse.

[Soulsisters]

Kyoko,

The kid thing is just plain awful.  They become the true victims.  Their little brains don't see the world as we do, they are only capable of thinking about what they need or want.  I just got off the phone with my kids therapist and she reinforced this thought to me once again.  The kids love both parents and the worst thing is to put them in the middle.

Just keep talking to your kids about what they need and keep them out of the drama.  Try really hard to do this for them.  My 17 year old hasn't spoke a word to me in months because his dad placed him in the middle.  She said he can't deal with me yet because he is having such a hard time just holding it together being 17,senior year, college, and his little brother.  It sucks. So I sit and wait until he is ready.  Hurts like hell

It didn't have to be that way.  Protect the kids from as much as you can.  You can only be responsible for what you say, don't think about what the x says. 

I'm sorry, hang in there.

[kyoko]

Hi Soulsister and david,

Thank you for your replies.  I'm so sorry Soulsister to hear of your situation with your oldest.  Yes it's heartbreaking to have your kids push you away and hoping that they will see what is really going on.  Your oldest soon will be out of high school and hopefully will have, less pressure and less influence from his dad. 

David thanks again for your advise.  Im happy to hear that therapy has helped you deal with your situation.  I also have found a therapist that has really helped me in trying to deal with ex.  My next step now is to find a good therapist for the girls since it was court ordered. 

This morning has been so hard for me.  My d's just left with their dad for the next 4 days.  It's the first time I will be away from them for more than a day.  It's also scary for me to see how my oldest will be acting when she comes back.  I feel like maybe I should fight and get a custody evaluator involved but seems that from my case the court has no interest as to what's best for children or I guess things have to be exteme physically before anything is done.  I'm still seething over what the court ordered without any thought or care as to what the mediators recommendation was. She was the one who saw firsthand what he was like.  At the court hearing, ex did not utter a word. 

I'm hoping for the best for my girls just like everyone else on this board.

[livednlearned]

kyoko,

I know it seems like small solace right after you are reeling from the court decision, but there are a lot of people here who do turn things around. It isn't easy, and it takes a while, and it can feel hopeless at times, but it is possible to turn the ship around. My ex had every other week + one overnight when we started and eventually I ended up with full custody. I thought the judge was very wise, but even so, the process takes a long time and there are all kinds of ways an antagonistic BPD sufferer can make sure it takes an even longer time.

The PD traits that you know so well are still there and they will begin to appear, so keep documenting. Use email to communicate. I can't say enough about how important it is to keep documenting. I look at the custody hearing when I got full custody and 3/4 of the time we were reading emails out loud. The rest was testimony from a third-party professional (PC). And then N/BPDx himself talking to the judge, not even aware how triggered he sounded, or how convoluted his lies were. My case is different than yours, and no two cases are alike, but there are some things that will help sway things in your favor and documenting what happens is one of the most important.

I hope you're doing ok with the kids not being there -- it's hard. Transitions are hard even in divorces where there is no BPD, and you're wise to anticipate that there will be problems when the comes back to be with you. Read as much as you can about the best way to handle that transition because it will make a big difference in how your kids start to see who you really are (instead of who your ex says you are). We often recommend Divorce Poison and Power of Validation here, but it helps to read "regular" books too. How to help your kids adjust to two homes.

I cried the first holiday S12 spent away from me and had a wonderful friend fly out who knew it was going to be hard on me. We ended up having a lovely time and I'll always be grateful to her for being there for me. I hope you have someone who can be there for you. And of course, we're here for you too  

LnL