advice about DS not speaking to me but speaking to my DH

[six]

in a nutshell, my DS26 who has been making certain improvements in his behavior over the past 6 months got angry about a comment I made regarding how he needs to treat his sibs when he comes home (he doesn't come home very often).  he swore at me, and refused to discuss this issue, saying to me "remind me not to come here (home) anymore, bec I don't want to see your face"

the next morning when he came downstairs he made a point of saying a warm hello to my dh and ignoring me.  I am curious as to how to approach his not speaking to me.  should I not speak back to him? or should I say good morning to him even tho he does not respond?  what do the veterans advise?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

six

my dd is only 16 so my situation is different from yours but she has ignored me at times. I do acknowledge her and be kind and respectful but I don't go over board or try and get her to respond to me. I really ignore bad behavior like this.

Have you tried to address the issue with him straight out?

I guess it would be helpful to know what you said to him exactly... . seems to me it might seem like you are taking your other childrens side and his feeling might be hurt by this.

Maybe the more important message would be how everyone in your home should be treated with respect... . have you tried the SET approach?

[PaulaJeanne]

I try to always treat my DBPDD(20) the way I want to be treated. My husband doesn't quite get why I don't take anything personally, but I just don't. I'm trying to role model. I can't tell you if it will ever pay off, but my relationship with her is pretty good. Her war is mostly waged against herself, not me.

[Kate4queen]

It's the classic 'splitting'

My son did this to us for years, we were either the favorite or the most hated, and to be honest, we let it happen sometimes because only one of us had the energy to engage with him.

I'd be polite to him but only because it's what you want to do, not because he is making you behave that way.

And then if he continues I'd form a united front with my husband and using a nice SET technique I'd remind him that in your home, he has to be respectful of you both or…and the consequences of that have to be what works for you. Personally, i'd say (and have done so to my son with regards to screaming abusive emails) that unless he does as you ask, he isn't welcome in your house.

Please do not go running after him trying to fix this. He'll just pull you into another hopeless spiraling argument which allows him to get angry and justify himself and for you to feel worse about what you 'supposedly did'. Don't play the game. You deserve to be respected in your own house.

[pessim-optimist]

the next morning when he came downstairs he made a point of saying a warm hello to my dh and ignoring me.  I am curious as to how to approach his not speaking to me.  should I not speak back to him? or should I say good morning to him even tho he does not respond?  what do the veterans advise?

I have two questions six:

1. Has it happened before? How have you handled it in the past (what does your son expect to be your reaction)?

2. How is your dh's connection w/ your son and how are his SET skills?

[six]

here is basically what happened

he has not spoken to his two younger sisters (22 and 24) for a few months

he comes into the house (rarely) and leaves immediately bec it is too hard to be around them.

their crime? breathing

last weekend he asked if he and his GF could come over and spend some time in the house.  he does this bec it is convenient for him, not bec he wants to spend time with us

my dd22 had just come home from a date and she was not in a very good mood

DSBPD26 started taunting her from across the room about the date and Ds and GF sort of sat on the couch laughing at dd22.  I could see she was getting upset.  so I quietly said the unacceptable sentence, "when you come into the house, you need to treat everyone here with respect.  "  I might have wanted to say more but he cut me off with a swearing party and then told me to remind him not to come home, he does not want to see my face blah blah

I agree with K4Q that he is trying to split me and dh.  generally dh takes a hands off approach with him.  I am the one who usually engages and tries to work things out with him.  As I have mentioned, things have been improving.  he definitely reacts to any attempt on my part to protect the other kids from him, bec he feels that he was never protected by me, blah blah

has it happened before? yes, usually I will try to speak with him and iron things out but I am not inclined to do it this time.  just getting tired of this game

[jellibeans]

dear six

I think I remember a post a few months back that you were going to try to meet at his house rather than he come to your place... . his hurt is deep when it comes to his siblings... . I thought recently you had had a very good outing with him and his gf... . don't forget those bad times. Your daughter are old enough to fight their own battles. I just keep wondering if there was a better way to difuse the situation? maybe making a general statement to all your children that you wanted the conversation to end... . period. Is there a way for your daughters to take a more active role? What stopped your daughter from removing herself from the conversation? Maybe it is your daughter that need help dealing with their brother? By you stepping in you are robbing them of the opportunity to learn... .

My older daughter 19 often has problems with her younger sister... . she trys to help me etc... . I am very firm with her that this doesn't concern her and she need to bud out... . how can your daughters improve their relationship with their brother?

[Kate4queen]

dear six

I think I remember a post a few months back that you were going to try to meet at his house rather than he come to your place... . his hurt is deep when it comes to his siblings... . I thought recently you had had a very good outing with him and his gf... . don't forget those bad times. Your daughter are old enough to fight their own battles. I just keep wondering if there was a better way to difuse the situation? maybe making a general statement to all your children that you wanted the conversation to end... . period. Is there a way for your daughters to take a more active role? What stopped your daughter from removing herself from the conversation? Maybe it is your daughter that need help dealing with their brother? By you stepping in you are robbing them of the opportunity to learn... .

My older daughter 19 often has problems with her younger sister... . she trys to help me etc... . I am very firm with her that this doesn't concern her and she need to bud out... . how can your daughters improve their relationship with their brother?

If Six's situation is anything like my BPD son with his siblings, you can't win. If I let my son eviscerate his siblings (and he does) I risked them feeling they weren't important to me and caused friction. If I tried to make the situation 'general' I ended up offending everyone. If I asked my BPD son not to speak to his siblings like that I ended up getting a mouthful of abuse and rage.

But sometimes I had to intervene. For example, it's not okay for a 20 yr old to rage and criticize and bully an 11 year old sister. She doesn't have to learn 'how to deal with her brother', she needs to be protected from him

I'm all for accommodating the needs of my son with BPD, but I don't think at this point it is his siblings responsibility to make things better for him when he has significantly damaged them over the years. Maybe when they are older, have received counseling and can gain some distance and empathy for their brother, sure. Unfortunately, when you are living in the middle of the situation there's a point where one has to set a boundary, and Six asking her son to respect her (and her daughter who lives there when her son doesn't) sounds like a perfectly reasonable request to me.

[lever.]

The difficulty is that siblings often don't have the same commitment to "deal with" BPD behaviour that parents do and relationships can quickly break down leaving the parent in a difficult position. I don't think you made an unreasonable request but  your son probably heard it differently. I would just be civil if he gives you the opportunity, as a model of appropriate behaviour.

Would your daughter be open to you talking to her when she is not upset and telling her that it tends to make things worse if you intervene, then in future it may be easier for you to let things run their natural course.

[jellibeans]

I certainly understand helping a 11 year child deal with a sibling... . but people in their 20's do need to decide if they want a relationship with their brother or not... . if they do they will need to change the way they interact... . removing themselves from an abusive conversation is a good start... . taking the respnsibility away from the mother I think would very much defuse the conflict and stress put upon her. It isn't her job to fix everything... . adult children need to take an active role with their relationship with their brother.

I think six boundary of respect is a good one... . but I do think there is room for improvement on how to do that. No matter what age the sibling is I think it is good to help siblings realize that they can always walk away... . they don't have to stay in the same room with someone that is being unkind. I realize everyday that I have only have control over myself... . I can't control others especially those with BPD... . changing how I interact with them will improve the relationship and hopefully in time make our whole family stronger.

[pessim-optimist]

Hm, I agree with jellibeans that adult siblings should be able to stand up for themselves, or walk away.

At the same time, I also understand your concern that you have a boundary for your house that everyone needs to treat everyone with respect. That's a good thing.

So, it is a balancing act of what is dd22's responsibility for her own welfare and your responsibility for the peace in your home.

when you come into the house, you need to treat everyone here with respect. (emphasis mine)

Do you see how this sentence would be triggering to a pwBPD? How it would be all of you united against him in his mind?

What would be a better sentence to use next time?

As far as the fallout of the situation that has already happened I would try to use SET. You could also try using DEARMAN.

has it happened before? yes, usually I will try to speak with him and iron things out but I am not inclined to do it this time.  just getting tired of this game

How is dh feeling about possibly trying to talk to your son? Would he be up to it? How are his skills?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[six]

whew

you have all given me a lot to think about

on the one hand, I agree that a 22 yr old can learn to take care of herself.  in fact, this particular daughter is quite good at taking care of herself and also has tried very hard over the years to have a working relationship with her brother.  she does not need my protection. 

I think that my response is actually about my own feelings of inadequacy at not having been able to provide a safe place for my other children to grow up.  the years that they were kids and he was a raging teenager and young adult were damaging to all of us, and I guess I still want to play the role of the mama bear and protect my babies. 

I agree with Pess-opt that my boundary setting could have been worded better.  I guess part of my feeling is that no matter how much I do right, there will always be a moment when I do not word things appropriately and then all heck will break loose. basically, even when things are going great, we are always a moment away from an explosion.  there is no credit built up for weeks of good interactions, caring, concern etc.  it all blows up in a minute bec I worded the boundary the wrong way.

in that sense, K4Q's situation sounds similar to mine.  as far as my dh being able to speak to him, he certainly could and would be wiling to try. but what is the message?  we have already set a boundary with him that there is no swearing in our home and that everyone needs to be treated with respect in our house.  he never keeps these boundaries as long as it doe not suit him.  so what is the point of my DH speaking with him?

thanks for sharing your wisdom and your concern.  really helps

6

[pessim-optimist]

I guess part of my feeling is that no matter how much I do right, there will always be a moment when I do not word things appropriately and then all heck will break loose. basically, even when things are going great, we are always a moment away from an explosion.  there is no credit built up for weeks of good interactions, caring, concern etc.  it all blows up in a minute bec I worded the boundary the wrong way.

Oh, six   that is so true... . We are only human and we will not be perfect. And the moment we are not, it blows up in our face. Please pat yourself on the back for all the times you said things right.

The point of this kind of brainstorming after the fact is understanding all the ins and outs of what happened from all angles, and getting us better prepared for future events... .

I read somewhere that winning trust with a pwBPD is like having to win a hundred atta-boys in a row, and if you make one little misstep, you start over. 

As far as my dh being able to speak to him, he certainly could and would be wiling to try. but what is the message? 

My thought was to help him re-connect again - to reach out. By now, the imminent crisis has probably blown over... .

In case of your son still simmering, you/or dh could try to communicate what happened and what would be expected and how it would be peaceful and positive for the whole family (in SET & DEARMAN setting). = restating your boundary while helping him cooperatively move toward future.