Crashing again

[Sstepdad]

 After being on unemployment for a year sd has now had it cut off and is asking for money we come to find out she is 3 car payments behind, she has a current boyfriend who is housing and feeding her the only bills she had were the car and cell phone.

I want to ask what were you doing with the unemployment but I know its not worth it I do not want to bail her out I feel it is just reinforcing and enabling bad behavior she says to my wife without a car she cant get a job but for a year she never looked. I am just getting burned out, she is 25 but has the emotional maturity of a 13 year old at best but is very intelligent at manipulating others.

I hate the stress she tries to put on our marriage trying to manipulate my wife into guilt, my wife is aware of the manipulation but is getting stressed from the constant immediate save me drama, then when she gets what she wants she off again without contact for sometimes a month.

At 25 its time for her to crash or get self reliant.

I know this is a common story for a lot of you just needed to blow off some steam, thanks.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Dear Sstepdad

Your story is not new... . this seems to be a common story. I watched a video yeaterday and I wanted to suggest you read it... . it talks about manipulation... .


Video--Adolescence and Borderline Personality Disorder


I am sorry things are not going well... . what do you plan on doing? Can you think of a way to support her without money?

[pessim-optimist]

Hello Sstepdad,

I am sorry it is so stressful - even though it is common, it doesn't make it easy for you does it... .

What does your wife want to do in this situation? Are you guys on the same page, or not at this point?

[Thursday]

Hi sstepdad,

I read back and reminded myself of your story. Seems like you are still struggling. Sorry to hear your current stresses.

Since your SD doesn't live with you and she is 25, I agree, it's time to quit enabling her with money. The words about needing a car to look for a job are familiar... . exactly what my SD22 would say if she didn't have use of a car and was again unemployed. And of course that is correct- your SD will be more successful looking for a job with a vehicle at her disposal so, you are in between a rock and a hard place with this one.

I'm curious, how does she have a car with a note? I ask because right now, my SD is talking big about buying a car. She is currently doing very well, seems to have grown up a bit. She is asking her Dad's advice about buying a car ( I am step-mom) and he is telling her that she needs to save and pay cash but who knows where this will go.

She currently has full use of a car her Dad purchased for her use when she was 18. She has beat it up and fouled the interior, which is why she wants a newer car. Also, her grandmother, with whom she lives, keeps telling her what a wreck her car is, GM thinks she needs a "better" car. We have explained to GM that we think SD needs to drive the car until it won't drive any more but GM is pretty clueless and drives a fancy car and lives in a very upscale neighborhood and we are "different" in her mind. GM is not my favorite if truth be known... .

SD could get a new car loan from a car dealership as she has a pretty good job but right now, but has no down payment because she burns through her money even though she has no "bills" (she lives with her grandmother rent free and we still pay her cell phone bill and car insurance temporarily- she has been paying us back for a recent car repair and next month she will have to pick up the cell phone bill and car insurance bill) were SD to purchase a car with a note (instead of saving and buying a used car) we would let her have the consequences of not keeping up with her payments and I'm not going to borrow trouble by worrying about that until it happens.

But I will say, through a few years of understanding that our boundaries are firm, she has finally started growing up and being more responsible. AA is also a big part of her growth as her sponsor is a  grown up who gives her solid advice.

Never too late to begin establishing boundaries. If you see that your SD will soon have her car repossessed, I would sit her down and tell her that if that happens you will not bail her out and urge her to find a job before it happens. Once she has a job you can negotiate a bail-out for the back car payments with firm, (FIRM) boundaries... . so much of her paycheck each pay period goes to paying you back and so much goes to paying the current note. You need to figure out ahead of time what you will do if she tricks you in some way and she needs to know this too.

With my SD, if she believes us, we are in a better position. When I first came into her life, she didn't believe a word her Dad said to her in terms of future consequences, because she had so often manipulated him into bending his position. Once she found that she couldn't get him to bend, things got easier. This started when she entered a sober living facility and was told she could not move back in with us... . ever. Believe me, she has asked. If her GM didn't allow her to live with her, I believe she would have figured out something else and frankly, the 11 months she was unemployed and "looking hard for a job" (NOT) would have been a much shorter period because she loves to smoke and she LUVS Starbucks soo much!

I know it's hard, and probably a lot harder for your wife but there really aren't a whole lot of options for you. Unless you want to be bailing her out when she is 30, 35, 40. When you and your wife aren't here anymore, who then?

Wish my unsolicited advice was cheerier... . this is hard stuff!

Whew... .

thursday

[Sstepdad]

 My wife is on board we have pretty much decided this time she is on her own the car can get repossessed if necessary.

She had been working and manged to get a loan through the dealer, a lot of places around here if you have a pulse they will give a loan out. She lost her job selling pot to a co worker and spent her time for the next year on unemployment partying.

Years ago she vandalized my work truck not realizing I put cameras up, she still denies doing it and my wife has told her before any help she needs to discuss what happened not apologize just own it, I don't think she can, one of her past relationships just told us she is hitting her up for money now. I have seen this scenario many times, in this coming week she will come to the house have a pathetic meltdown and try to bypass the issues my wife is firm not to let this happen.

We have read loving someone with BPD and Who is Pulling your strings we both have gotten a lot from them, "who is pulling your strings" I highly recommend.


The funny thing is I put the cameras up not out of concern for her but a few of the boyfriends that she had, I own a lot of tools for my business and was concerned about them disappearing

[Thursday]

Many times in the past I wished for a camera to sort things out.

But I guess that your SD denies what you can see with your eyes (assuming she now knows about the video of her vandalizing your vehicle)

My SD took out anger on my truck once. She broke out a window- claimed she did it with her fist but her fist wasn't really injured... . there were a few scratches on the side of her hand. The repair guy told me there was no way she could have broken out the window with her hand. Then he picked up, out of the bed of my truck, a big rock and said, "Here's what she used".

Knowing she picked up a rock to smash my window just seemed worse than her losing her temper and punching it and I wanted her to admit it. She never has and I've given up. I find I get along much better (not just with her but with life in general) with staying focused on how things are now instead of worrying about all of the horrible destructive things she did in the past. I hope this doesn't sound preachy, just trying to relate how I've gotten to a calmer more peaceful state with my SD. I used to be upset so much!

Best wishes... .

thursday

[Sstepdad]

 Thursday, the reason she had denied it was she was not aware of the cameras and I did not tell her about them we had other proof, and I mistakenly thought she would have the courage and integrity at the time to come clean on her own this was before we really realized she had some serious issues.

It was only a few months ago she found out I have proof she has basically admitted to her mother now, but refuses to discuss it with me I do not want an apology but she does need to take responsibility and own it. I would love to put it behind us it was just a truck but there were other issues before that this one put me over the line.

I did not want it to be a gotcha thing at the time, now I know she does not take personal responsibility for any issues in her life so we have decided to disengage until she makes some sort of effort to help herself.

[jellibeans]

dear sstepdad

I understand you need for her to take responsibily for what she did but that is something the pwBPD is not always capable of doing... . I think the shame they feel is great and to admit the wrong doing only further degrades them and decreases their self worth. Focusing who is right and who is wrong is a waste of energy and it doesn't really address the real issues.

Here are a couple of more articles for you to read... . I hope they help you.

US: Do you suffer from Compassion Fatigue?

Workshop - US: Forgiveness

US: as victims

[Sstepdad]

jellibeans thanks for the links, its not a right or wrong issue for me its accountability, I have been told on more than one occasion I am a hard ass but fair.

I served in the military and have always  had jobs that hold personal accountability to a high standard, that does color my judgment to a degree. I feel she thinks she can get away with what she feels like one of these times she will be arrested.

Fired for stealing at one job and fired for selling pot at another, she was lucky neither pressed charges it will catch up sooner or later.

[jellibeans]

Sstepdad

I can see what you are saying... . but if she stole etc... . she got her consequences for those wrong doings.

So what is the consequence for her breaking the window? You have video? Can you go to the police and have here charged? That seems like the best way for her to held accountable for her actions.

Breaking off contact with her is not a consequence... . I think the more we can remain nonjudgemental then the better we can help our children.

I understand that you have principals and you feel strongly about what she did... . but I want to ask you how is it helping her by breaking contact? Is it that you need the rest and time to regain your strength? I can understand that completely. It can be exhausting... I just want to encourage you to find a way to support your dd without money... . have you read about the radical acceptance? I truly believe that when my dd16 know better than she will do better. I believe that she is in pain a lot of the time... . and when she is at her worst is when she is hurting the most.

Love me when I least deserve it... . because that is when I need it most

I keep this quote in my head... . it helps me put things into perspective... . key is to have boundaries and improve communication. I hope you will keep posting. I want to encourage you and give you hope... . things will get better... . realize you are the only one you can control... . I assure you if you use the validation and SET with boundaries the relationship with your dd will improve. She is young and has her whole life ahead of her... . this is only a snapshot in time... . there are better days ahead.

[pessim-optimist]

Never too late to begin establishing boundaries. If you see that your SD will soon have her car repossessed, I would sit her down and tell her that if that happens you will not bail her out and urge her to find a job before it happens. Once she has a job you can negotiate a bail-out for the back car payments with firm, (FIRM) boundaries... . so much of her paycheck each pay period goes to paying you back and so much goes to paying the current note. You need to figure out ahead of time what you will do if she tricks you in some way and she needs to know this too.

I like Thursday's suggestion - it forces your sd to look for a job FAST, it lets you help her, and it also is an opportunity for her to learn some responsibility in a positive way: 'as long as you do this, we will do this.' That works best w/ our kids w/BPD.

It was only a few months ago she found out I have proof she has basically admitted to her mother now, but refuses to discuss it with me I do not want an apology but she does need to take responsibility and own it. I would love to put it behind us it was just a truck but there were other issues before that this one put me over the line.

I did not want it to be a gotcha thing at the time, now I know she does not take personal responsibility for any issues in her life so we have decided to disengage until she makes some sort of effort to help herself.

This seems to be an important value to you Sstepdad. Our values are best upheld with boundaries. So, you established the boundary that she needs to acknowledge it in order for you to engage.

Sometimes, as jellibeans mentioned, our kids w/BPD are not able to do this. So you are at an impasse.

Perhaps this new situation might be an opportunity for you wife to coach and coax sd into the needed acknowledgement:

'I know how important having a car is and I see how stressed out you are about the possibility of having it repossessed. I would really love to help you with this honey. So, I will need a bit of help from you. Sstepdad and I are making our financial decisions together, and we both need to be able to trust you for this to happen.

It would build some needed trust between you if you could admit to vandalizing his truck, and you could both put it behind you. I know Sstepdad would be happy to put that issue to rest. Do you think you could talk to him?'

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Sstepdad]

 jellibeans I  have given the wrong impression here we are in contact, in fact she went to a job interview yesterday from a lead that her mother got she is welcome to come over and has dinner on occasion, we have drawn the line on financial support.

The damage to my vehicle was extensive 2 slashed tires and all the paint scratched up all because she moved out and the locks were changed so she would stop coming and taking things when we were not home.

The boundary I have established is a honest discussion of what happened.

[jellibeans]

I am sorry Sstepdad that I got the wrong impression... . I am glad you are still in contact with her and you are right about setting those boundaries.

I am not sure I asked but is she getting any help? from a therapist?

[Sstepdad]

 She will not go to a therapist she does not believe anything is wrong, its the other person not her.

After the truck issue we went to family mediation but she refused to go after 3 visits.

[jellibeans]

I am sorry Sstepdad that seems to be very common. We finally put dd16 into a RTC and upon her release had a set of things she needed to do to return home. Seeing a therapist and taking her meds was at the top of the list. My dd16 is also ODD so that makes it pretty hard to get her to do anything.

Maybe you could exchange some help she is asking for with her agreement to seek counseling? I hope things turn around for you all soon