Have been offered opportunity to "explain myself"

[lever.]

I previously posted about my efforts to try to re-establish contact with my DD (33) and my GC.

I found I couldn't completely ignore her birthday so sent a brief e-mail to say I was respecting her wishes not to send a card or make contact on the day because that was what she had requested and not because I didn't care. I also included a form of Valerie Porr's statement along the lines of I must have said and done so much to hurt you for us to be in this situation.

I have had a reply.

1 I may see the children as long as she doesn't have to see me.

2 A link to a thread on the internet where she describes Christmas from her perspective.

She then says "if you want to explain why you behaved like you did at Christmas and excluded me-feel free! There is also a lot about how her sister is telling lies on the thread.

I am going to write her another letter.

I know already that I need to validate her feelings as expressed in the thread, even though I dispute the facts I won't say so.

I will also totally avoid any discussion re her sister and who is telling the truth. However the whole incident started as a result of unacceptable behaviour by DD... which seriously upset her sister. When her sister said she was leaving DH decisively took her part.

I myself think that DD's behaviour was out of order.  If I do SET do I mention this at all? I am very keen to re-establish a relationship but don't want to compromise my values or validate the invalid.

Privately I am not inclined to think her sister is lying but obviously I don't know that for sure so I won't risk invalidating anyone by discussing it. This is progress and both your support and Valerie Porr's book have been very helpful.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Eclaire5]

I wouldn't mentioned it if I was you; at least not now. With our children no matter how well we explain things, or how certain we are of something, it does not matter. They see it their way, and their way only, and there is no one who can change that. If your goal for now is to maintain contact, continue to use SET, and if you do not say anything about the issue with her sister, it does not mean that you are validating the invalid. I think it is quite some progress with the fact that she is now ok for you to see the kids. You do not have to explain anything to her regarding Christmas, but you can say you are trying to understand her hurt or frustration. Sometimes the more empathic and less resistant we are, their emotional deregulation decreases. I wish you the best,  hoping that you are able to re-establish contact with her one day.

.

[lever.]

Thank-you eclair. Yes I think we are getting somewhere and this invitation to explain myself sounds like an invitation to JADE, so I will need to be very careful not to set things back. It would be difficult to explain my behaviour without invalidating her. Will need to be careful not to take the bait. Thanks

[qcarolr]

lever

Can you pause before you reply and think about what your most important need is? Maybe staying in contact with the GC?

From my experience with my DD27, trying to explain or reason when she is still expressing anger about a specific situation seems to push us farther apart, not closer together. It is extremely hard for me to truly accept, radically accept, that DD may never ever understand the what and why of many situations in our life together that she continues to feel so much pain, abandonment and betrayal about. I am trying so hard to let go of these issues inside of myself. That is all I have any control over.

It also sounds like she is still seeking for you to take sides with her against her sister. And your comments show that you still are processing hurts from Christmas too. Can you consider what benefit you are gaining reading the link to her tale about Christmas?

Validation, at least for me, can benefit both sides only when I am in a sincere place around the situation. When I am still processing my own feelings it is hard to be sincere. And I tend to end up validating the behaviors (often invalid behaviors), criticizing the behaviors, and not being able to empathize with the underlying feelings.

qcr

[Verbena]

This opportunity to explain yourself is basically an invitation to JADE which I have finally learned makes things worse.  I agree that SET is your best tactic.  I would not even get into the issue with her sister, and I would not apologize for something I didn't do either.  The twisted truth and false perceptions of pwBPD are so difficult.  We're not supposed to walk on eggshells, but isn't that what we all do to some degree? 

Good luck with your DD.  At least she is allowing you to see her children.

[lever.]

Yes, I am still hurt even though I'm doing lots of mindfulness meditation and reading and I'm trying to tell myself I'm more peaceful. In fact that feeling comes and goes. I read the thread because she asked me to and I thought I needed to understand her feelings, however to me it is a very distorted account of what actually occurred followed by lots of comments of the "they don't love you ,cut them out of your life" variety( no wonder given what she has written!)

Number one priority is to keep contact with GC which will involve a long journey and a few nights in a hotel.

I have told her that I will write to her following her invitation to explain my behaviour and now wish I hadn't. You are right qcr it is difficult to be sincerely validating when you are still processing things and it is true that she generally fails to understand the what and why or to learn from previous distressing experiences.

I will just have to keep it short and validate what I can.We haven't actually spoken, all this was by e-mail and,from the tone I think there would have been another blow-up if this had been a real conversation

[jellibeans]

Dear Lever

You might put things is her court and ask her "how you can support her better" or just basically "what is it that you can do going forward"... . I am not sure but maybe she will feel like she has some power... . i think sometimes it really comes down to power or who's right... . everyone wants to be right but sometimes there is not just one right... . try not to make your letter judgemental in any way and focus on yourself... . don't mention her sister at all.

[lever.]

I am almost regretting today that I tried to build bridges. I am relieved that I will be able to see my GC but I have had another e-mail with a very negative tone. This refers to things that happened in the past but then tells me she doesn't want to hear any more about them, just Christmas. My efforts to understand her point of view are leaving me confused and a bit depressed. I am questioning my own memory and judgement and questioning my view of my other daughter.

I am trying to remember that DD has a trail of people she has fallen out with who have no connection with me and that she has been asked to leave training courses etc.This isn't because I have a need for her to be in the wrong or that I want to be proved right, she is just making me really question myself and my own behaviour. I think she may be right and that we DO need a break. Thank-you to those who are going through much worse and have taken the trouble to reply to me. There was a time when my DD was overdosing weekly, detained under the mental health act etc. I should really be grateful that life is now much better for her.

[Eclaire5]

If you feel that no-contact for now would be healthier for both of you then do that. There is nothing wrong with us setting some distance when we need to keep our sanity. You might want to do it in a very kind way by telling her something like: "It seems like you have been quite upset with this brief contact we have had, and the last thing I want is for this to put more stress in your life. Maybe you are not ready to re-connect again, and that is fine. Take your time and just know that I love you very much. Once you are ready please let me know; it would make me very happy to be in your life and to have a relationship with my grandchild". Something like this would put the ball on her side and it would be up to her to decide if she wants to have a relationship with you or not. Of course it would hurt you to not see your grandchild, but it would also save you a lot of pain because she is in the attacking mode right now.

[six]

Lever

your post brings back so many memories of times I tried to explain my behavior only to go round and round in circles with my DSBPD26.  His twisted "logic" always carried the day and he never saw things from my perspective even one tiny bit. 

My other children are a huge trigger for him when he beleives that I (or dh) are protecting one of the other kids from him.  If your dd is sensing that you are taking sides with her sister, the rage will probably continue no matter what you say in your "defense."  Also, Valerie states that other kids in the family might have certain BPD traits, even if they are not actually BPD.  so at times it can get confusing when the kids are at odds with each other because one of the siblings might start behaving as badly as the pwBPD.

as far as doubting your own perception, when my ds goes thru a period of relative calm i start to doubt whether he even has BPD.  Inevitably, he reminds me  that he does.

wishing you success

6

[lever.]

Thank-you, thank-you eclair, I will practically copy that- it couldn't be more helpful.

Thank-you also six. My other daughter certainly doesn't have BPD. She is a qualified teacher in full time employment and has a lot of stable friendships. However she definitely has problems with emotional regulation when upset,- around her sister she goes up like a rocket, shouting and crying. I was feeling upset today, like I had failed as a mum but I know I have to stay strong and continue to try to be a positive, stable influence. My most difficult situations are when I am caught between my DDs, anything directed at myself or DH is much easier to deal with. DD1 certainly gives DD2 plenty to disregulate about but I also wish DD2 would be more open to talking to me about managing her sister more constructively.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Kate4queen]

It's not really a question of her wanting you to 'explain yourself' we've been there so many times. Once you get on that roundabout with them your head will be spinning, black will become white and you'll begin to think you're the one who is completely in the wrong again.

She wants to tell you that you are wrong so that she can tell you that she is right because that is how BPD works=in order for her to justify her world view, you have to be totally in the wrong.

I hate to say this, but don't get on that roundabout.  Ask an open question, put the ball back in her court as to how she would like things to proceed and refuse to get drawn into long pointless spiraling arguments about the past.

[Verbena]

It's not really a question of her wanting you to 'explain yourself' we've been there so many times. Once you get on that roundabout with them your head will be spinning, black will become white and you'll begin to think you're the one who is completely in the wrong again.

She wants to tell you that you are wrong so that she can tell you that she is right because that is how BPD works=in order for her to justify her world view, you have to be totally in the wrong.I hate to say this, but don't get on that roundabout.  Ask an open question, put the ball back in her court as to how she would like things to proceed and refuse to get drawn into long pointless spiraling arguments about the past.

I could not agree more with this.  I just went through a similar situation this past year with my daughter.  She fought tooth and nail for me to take back not just what I said about her behavior, but what I THOUGHT about it.  She could not/would not take any responsibility.  She had to be right and blameless.  We were only able to move forward when we made it clear that we would no longer discuss the situation.  We were done dealing with, it was over, we had said all we could, and that was it.  She made several more attempts after that to draw me in, put words in my mouth, and twist the truth, but I wouldn't go back down that road with her.  She finally let it go.  The jabs and comments have become less frequent, but she is still very much a victim to all that happened. 

[qcarolr]

It's not really a question of her wanting you to 'explain yourself' we've been there so many times. Once you get on that roundabout with them your head will be spinning, black will become white and you'll begin to think you're the one who is completely in the wrong again.

She wants to tell you that you are wrong so that she can tell you that she is right because that is how BPD works=in order for her to justify her world view, you have to be totally in the wrong.I hate to say this, but don't get on that roundabout.  Ask an open question, put the ball back in her court as to how she would like things to proceed and refuse to get drawn into long pointless spiraling arguments about the past.

I could not agree more with this.  I just went through a similar situation this past year with my daughter.  She fought tooth and nail for me to take back not just what I said about her behavior, but what I THOUGHT about it.  She could not/would not take any responsibility.  She had to be right and blameless.  We were only able to move forward when we made it clear that we would no longer discuss the situation.  We were done dealing with, it was over, we had said all we could, and that was it.  She made several more attempts after that to draw me in, put words in my mouth, and twist the truth, but I wouldn't go back down that road with her.  She finally let it go.  The jabs and comments have become less frequent, but she is still very much a victim to all that happened. 

This is just what i needed to read today.

qcr

[lever.]

Thank-you. Yes, I was beginning to think up was down and black was white. I have read a lot about BPD and I know rationally that I didn't cause this but there is so much "pop" psychology blaming parents that I am very prone to guilt and looking for my mistakes. DD on the other hand is prone to feeling shame and avoiding responsibility ~not a good combination. I will take everyone's advice and not get onto this roundabout. You are correct, this is not a genuine desire to hear my point of view ~it will drag us back into pointless upsetting arguments that will hurt both of us.