Why put up with this?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I've been feeling down.  I look to three directions for help in dealing with my relationship.  I look here, and for information relating to BPD or other mental illnesses.  I look to information relating to substance abuse (al-anon and nar-anon).  I also look to information about abusive relationships.  I see crossover in all three.  Most of the people I meet through Al-anon or Nar-anon are dealing with people diagnosed with mental illness or strongly suspected of having a mental illness, and most of them are also dealing with abusive (often violent) relationships.  And it seems like those of us who post here are often also dealing with substance abuse and abusive relationships.  And most of the people I read about who are trying to escape an abusive relationship also point to substance abuse and behavior that sounds an awful lot like a personality disorder. 

A few months ago in couples counseling, I mentioned to the T that all I care about is that she is happy, and everything else would fall in place from there.  I said that I don't care about the mental illness, only her ability to recognize it and work on improving.  T asked if I found out she had diabetes, would that change my view.  I said no.  And that is the way I felt about it then, that she has an illness that she didn't sign up for, and I won't hold that against her so long as she is willing to fight it.

Now, maybe my attitude is changing.  The "symptoms" of this illness are abuse.   I can learn to cope with it, to recognize it as projection, to not take it personally and to avoid some of it, but I can't stop it.  It will always be there.  With diabetes, cancer, or other illnesses, the "symptoms" aren't things that are hurtful to me.  I still wish for her to be happy, either with or without me.  Just happy and able to enjoy the sun coming up every morning and other beauties of life as I do.  And I will always show her respect, and not think negatively about her because of her illness.

I'm just thinking out loud, that maybe I should put more focus on how this is making me feel, and what I want and need from a relationship.  I need to treat it as any other relationship - are my needs being met?  Am I happier in the relationship or out of the relationship?  I feel I make excuses for her.  I excuse her abuse and her bad moods and put my life on hold.  I manage and cope for now, and I have reached a point of what I call "dynamic stability" - meaning I know what it is and know what to expect and how to respond and how to cope, but I am just having a hard time moving forward or backward.  It's like an old car that has issues, but I know how to fix it and keep it on the road, yet am not sure whether a new car is a good option now, but I still think it is better than no car. 

I'm just questioning myself - why do I put up with this?  It's abuse.  I have an option of ending it.  If it were a friend of mine, I'd say "leave, you deserve better."  And that is what all my friends say.  Even the ones that know she has a mental illness say the same thing, illness or not she's still abusive.  My T says the same thing.

[maxsterling]

I've been feeling down.  I look to three directions for help in dealing with my relationship.  I look here, and for information relating to BPD or other mental illnesses.  I look to information relating to substance abuse (al-anon and nar-anon).  I also look to information about abusive relationships.  I see crossover in all three.  Most of the people I meet through Al-anon or Nar-anon are dealing with people diagnosed with mental illness or strongly suspected of having a mental illness, and most of them are also dealing with abusive (often violent) relationships.  And it seems like those of us who post here are often also dealing with substance abuse and abusive relationships.  And most of the people I read about who are trying to escape an abusive relationship also point to substance abuse and behavior that sounds an awful lot like a personality disorder. 

A few months ago in couples counseling, I mentioned to the T that all I care about is that she is happy, and everything else would fall in place from there.  I said that I don't care about the mental illness, only her ability to recognize it and work on improving.  T asked if I found out she had diabetes, would that change my view.  I said no.  And that is the way I felt about it then, that she has an illness that she didn't sign up for, and I won't hold that against her so long as she is willing to fight it.

Now, maybe my attitude is changing.  The "symptoms" of this illness are abuse.   I can learn to cope with it, to recognize it as projection, to not take it personally and to avoid some of it, but I can't stop it.  It will always be there.  With diabetes, cancer, or other illnesses, the "symptoms" aren't things that are hurtful to me.  I still wish for her to be happy, either with or without me.  Just happy and able to enjoy the sun coming up every morning and other beauties of life as I do.  And I will always show her respect, and not think negatively about her because of her illness.

I'm just thinking out loud, that maybe I should put more focus on how this is making me feel, and what I want and need from a relationship.  I need to treat it as any other relationship - are my needs being met?  Am I happier in the relationship or out of the relationship?  I feel I make excuses for her.  I excuse her abuse and her bad moods and put my life on hold.  I manage and cope for now, and I have reached a point of what I call "dynamic stability" - meaning I know what it is and know what to expect and how to respond and how to cope, but I am just having a hard time moving forward or backward.  It's like an old car that has issues, but I know how to fix it and keep it on the road, yet am not sure whether a new car is a good option now, but I still think it is better than no car. 

I'm just questioning myself - why do I put up with this?  It's abuse.  I have an option of ending it.  If it were a friend of mine, I'd say "leave, you deserve better."  And that is what all my friends say.  Even the ones that know she has a mental illness say the same thing, illness or not she's still abusive.  My T says the same thing.

[Vindi]

how long have you been with your gf?

and have things been better or worse since you met her?

I truly know the feeling, i have my ups and downs with my bf... . and soo many codependency issues, and alot of self esteem issues... . thats why I think i stay, "he" always tries to make things better after we have fights, or he has outbursts, and i wear my  heart on my sleeve and forgave him soo many times.

To this day, I am still working on myself, and if there ever comes a time when I have to leave, I will do just that... . I have set alot of firm boundaries and they help so much.

Have you tried setting boundaries, any dealbreakers?

Please keep posting and know you are not alone!

[danadane]

Wow you just eloquently explained  my entire thoughts for today. I am married is the only difference. Very good luck to us huh. Rock and a hard place imo.

[maxsterling]

Thanks everyone.

[Seneca]

max, i think you are starting to see the light here. so much of what we think and do and learn is about them. but every once in a while when you step back to look at reality and results, what you are left with is that, regardless of the reason, you are being abused. you will always be abused. you are being unfulfilled. you will always be unfulfilled. you do not have peace and contentment and safety in this life. you will not ever have those things. IF YOU CHOOSE TO SPEND THE REST OF YOUR LIFE WITH THIS PERSON.

or you could have all those things, or some of those things, or at least more of those things, without her. no, she doesn't deserve to be sick. yes, it would be tragic if another rs ended and she sank further into despair. but that doesn't mean it HAS to be your problem. i know you FEEL like you are the one keeping her alive or afloat or close to sane right now. but you're not. you aren't special. if it weren't you it'd be someone else. there is no ", Savior" after your name.

here is a vision i had the other day: my SO and i, miles from shore, in deep water. we were drowning. he wasn't strong enough to swim to shore, and would die there. i wasn't strong enough to haul him in. so i had two choices - i could waste my life treading water beside him, waiting for death. or i could swim like hell towards shore, and save my own life. GIVING UP MY LIFE FOR HIS, isn't an option. If I lay down my life, he will die either way. So what do I do? Waste two lives because I feel guilty or sad or helpless? Or do I lay those feelings down and save my own neck? Believe me, if I could trade my life for his... . if I knew that giving up my own happiness, peace and safety, would relieve him - make him a whole and happy person, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I been here 13 years Max. And I know, in my core, that it's not possible. The choices are two lives wasted or one. I know what choice I am making. What about you?

[SweetCharlotte]

It's not that simple. I don't think Max feels he can give her up because he doesn't enjoy being intimate with women who don't have serious psychological issues. Something about being with a woman whose sanity is questionable allows him to feel superior and enjoy being physical with her. Take that away and "the thrill is gone."

I sympathize because I also sought out men with problems and did not enjoy the company of any man who could be considered mentally healthy. After a disastrous first marriage (a husband I had no choice but to divorce) and many years of single motherhood, I found a man who was functional but with just enough craziness to keep me interested. That is my current uBPDh.

I don't see Max working it out with this particular person and I think he should let her go so that she can get on with her life, but that could be because of my own experiences.

[maxsterling]

I certainly thank all those who took time to respond.  All advice is useful. 

I think some of you are coming from a different viewpoint of having been in their relationship longer.  I certainly take that advice to heart.  But right now, I'm not in that place.  I was feeling at least a little optimistic until a few weeks ago.  It's only been the last few weeks where I have started to feel things as more hopeless, and I'm having a real struggle coming to grips with that because it seems to disagree with my emotions and upbringing.  this is probably the most difficult thing I have faced in my life, and I feel weak, powerless, and completely confused. 

SweetCharlotte - I certainly understand your viewpoint, and have spent countless hours thinking about things from that angle.  I've been going to 12-step meetings, and many people there describe themselves as "fixers" or "co-dependents", and after months, I realize that's not a very good description of me.  Many of the people in those meetings describe feeling empty and feeling better when they have someone to "fix" or "rescue", while I absolutely HATE being in that role.  I don't mind being the inspiration for someone to make positive changes, but I don't ever feel comfortable being the reason or the motivating factor.  I am attracted to people who are unique in some way, a little weird, creative, or shun some of the social norms.  I am probably attracted to that type of person because I am that type of person, and I feel I would be more accepted.  But I am certainly not attracted to those who have problems they need help with.  With my current girlfriend, I knew she had problems in her past.  But I thought they were in her past, and I was attracted to her strength in overcoming those problems.  In other words, I was attracted to what I thought was her independence and openness with her emotions, and admission of past failures.  She seemed complete and stable and whole.  two months later, I started figuring out that She's been "searching" her whole life, and the "independence" was really the instability of not knowing her own identity.  If I could go back in time and have ended it then, I certainly would. 

But that's all hindsight - and wound up developing feelings, and started trying to be supportive for what I thought were small and temporary problems.  I had NO idea what BPD was.  And then came the night where she said she would kill herself in my living room if I left, and when I came back I would find her dead body and it would be my fault.  Up to that point in my life, I hadn't ever been around anyone that made statements about suicide.  It's scary.  And at that point, things got woven deeper, and I dot more confused emotionally, and am now just trying to keep my head above water long enough for me to think about things.  If there was an easy way out right now, I would probably take it.  I've considered that my being with her is hurting her, and if she wanted to leave and get on with her life, I would certainly not stand in her way.  But she doesn't want to leave - in fact she often tells me that I am the only thing keeping her going, making it almost impossible for me to force her out.  She's attempted suicide before after breakups - so emotionally, I'm terrified, and really need to work more on detachment.

If there is anything from my upbringing or personality that is contributing, it's not the desire to fix, not the fear of myself (I love myself and was perfectly happy being single), but the fear of hurting someone else.  Even as a child, I would feel tremendous pain if I thought I had hurt someone else's feelings or let someone down.  I know I need to work on that and trust that I have a good heart.  I also feel panicked in conflict situations, and my thoughts get confused and clouded, and my reactions slow.  That's something else I am trying to work on.  If she was acting or making statements like she was unsure about this relationship, I wouldn't fight to hard to keep it together. 

[SweetCharlotte]

Thank you for explaining your situation with such sophistication. It is a very complex relationship. I would have to say that it is the most complicated and difficult to "tip" one way or the other of all the ones I've read about on these boards.

I have to confess that I find your situation fascinating not only because I am involved with someone who either has BPD or many of its symptoms, and because I have been involved with more seriously disturbed guys in the past (including my first husband, who has some sort of undiagnosed autistic disorder), but also because I have been in protracted relationships with more normal men who would neither make a commitment to me nor let me go. Hence, I feel for both you and your SO. To add to the commonality, I was also raised Catholic and had two relationships (none leading to marriage) with Jewish men.

It doesn't seem like you feel like you can let her go, for the reasons you explained. You would like to see her make some progress before you make a lifelong commitment and have a baby with her. Yet that progress is never clear and unambiguous. I can certainly appreciate better now the complexity of your situation.

[OutsidetheHermitWalls]

Hi!

i have never knew a relationship that is so equipped to have us ask questions without answers; these relationships put us up against some basic facts if life; it's uncertain and it can't be controlled or managed.  Less destructive relationships at least let us have the delusion that we are in control, that are partner is predictable; that is until they die of cancer, or lose a parent, or child.  So in our situation it's all right there.  We expect a person who has an illness where their moods fluctuate on a dime to see themselves.  Which self?  they have fears will project uppn us; who will shatter if we demonstrate any threat. both real or imagined.  We want them to realize they hurt us.  Would we empathize with someone who attacks us while they are threatening us?  i would not, and they can't their heads tell them we we are some type of threat.  There is no answer.  figure out what you want, be honest of what you can take; get quiet and listen to your truth good luck

[maxsterling]

I just feel "stuck".  There reality is - I love her.  I care very deeply about her.  I enjoy her companionship (well, on days where she is stable).  I'd like to have a life with her.  But I also feel the "love" is turning into more of a friendship love, or a family type of love.  I'm not as sexually attracted to her as I used to be, and I think it has to do with my reaction to her being sad all the time, and just not feeling comfort in anything long term anymore do to her lifelong instability.  Deep down, I know this is 99% unlikely to last.  I just can't ignore the feelings of how much I have lost of myself.  If you asked me two years ago what type of person would be bad for me to deal with, I would have basically described her.  And I tried so hard to avoid dating a person with these characteristics, but she hid them soo well.  Not intentionally, of course, it's just that since I knew nothing of BPD, this type of behavioral pattern didn't even come across as a possibility.  I'm a self sufficient person with many hobbies and am happy doing things on my own.  I expected her to be the same.  She sounded like she had friends and interests and hobbies and from what I could tell was capable of reflection, knowing right from wrong, working on herself, growing, and taking care of her own needs.  Of course, that's never been the case for her, but I didn't know it at the time.

Sometimes I feel it would be easier if she would rage at me one more time, or hit me again, so that I could use that as a means to break it off.  But the "I hate you don't leave me" is definitely true here.  She really does need me, and tells me this all the time.  I have no doubt she would spiral down to nothing if this ended.  She has no other friends or family.  nobody else she knows in this city.  For her to find stability and support, she would have to have the strength to go elsewhere. 

It's not just that that keeps me in the relationship - there is the emotional component - the love that somehow still wants things to work out.  And at times when I feel I am at my end with her behavior and strong enough to make a change, she has a melt down.  The melt down lads to her expressing how much she needs me, and statements about how messed up she is, and how much she is trying. 

And I am just so confused and drained, it's just so hard to think and make a decision.  It's not fair for me, or fair for her.  When she is in an bad mood and draining the life out of me, I want to leave the relationship, but I feel because I care about her I want her to be more stable and capable of meeting her own needs before that happens.  But, if she gets to the point where she is happy and less needy, I no longer want to leave.   

[seeking balance]

And I am just so confused and drained, it's just so hard to think and make a decision.  It's not fair for me, or fair for her.  When she is in an bad mood and draining the life out of me, I want to leave the relationship, but I feel because I care about her I want her to be more stable and capable of meeting her own needs before that happens.  But, if she gets to the point where she is happy and less needy, I no longer want to leave.   

Max,

Of course you are exhausted - nothing about this process is easy and by the time we get to the point of couples therapy and these boards we are on our last bit of energy.

Look to the right - Choosing a Path - step 2 Take a Step Backwards... . how can you do this for yourself right now so that you can get a bit of clarity?

This is a lot like the oxygen mask on an airplane - you have GOT to put yours on first or there is honestly nothing left of you.

Peace,

SB