She had me convinced...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I'm not pretty sure my marriage is over... .

The FOG is lifting as I see my therapist weekly and I'm on Celexa.  It seems to help me not get caught up in the 'emergencies', imagined or not.  Any perceived slight is met by text messages about how she is crying all day and I know how to fix things but I choose not to do so.  I honestly have no idea what she is referring to most of the time.

Over the past 2.5 years, it has gotten worse.  She has tried to and sometimes has convinced me of the following:

-I am not following through on my promise to have multiple children with her.  I told her I wanted to have kids when we got back together after a brief separation.  I was completely crazy at the time and in heavy FOG.  I have since changed my mind but she isn't accepting of that.  She bought ovulation tests and leaves them on the bathroom counter. 

-We should move to get away from my parents who live less than a half mile away.  My parents love our child and stop by with dinner or to just visit once a week.  She is furious about this. this is in contrast to her family who visits maybe every 6 weeks and lives almost as close.  Most of the time my parents call before coming over.  If they don't, she texts me when they are there saying she is anxious and they are rude.  It isn't like they interrupt anything.  I think it's because she can't be waited on hand and foot by me in front of them.  She feels like she has to put on a happy face, according to her, and 'do stuff so they don't see that she is fat and lazy'.  sheesh.

-I needed a new car, my other was on its last leg.  I bought a newish car that is good on gas.  She turned around the next week and bought a car with as slightly lesser payment.  Her reason:  it will benefit our family.  She had a perfectly good SUV that fit everyone in our family in it fine.  but her new, smaller car is better for the family and she bought it without my help or even consulting me.  I was up front and honest about everything on my purchase.  She was at the dealership and knew every step involved in the process!

-She is convinced that everyone spends at least one night a week going over one another's phone bill.  She asks who I text and call during the days.  I use my phone for my job and get compensated for it.  Of course she doesn't recognize some of the numbers!  Who does this?  Sometimes she answers my texts if I don't hear my phone or I leave it in the room with her.  I have nothing to hide but I think it is rude to answer people as if it was me texting them.

-She feels I am a bad person to have her work for a living.  She feels she should be able to stay home with our child because she is 'missing out'.  I said most people work and have kids.  She said most of the people she knows do not have jobs and their husbands do.  This is a complete lie.  She tries to say I hate her and I am mean for sending her to a job where she is treated poorly.  She doesn't get along with one person (who doesn't get along with anyone btw) and that is who she concentrates on.  If she quit her job we would be in dire straits.  I proved that to her on paper, even with a budget, and she raged about it for 2 days.

I am not falling for it.  She has Fridays off and complains that she has to do everything alone.  I work 50 hours a week, I can't be with her but she seems to overlook the fact that I can't be 2 places at once.  I used to leave early to appease her but no more.  I just can't and don't see the point.  I end up taking care of our son and her without relaxing the whole time.

My big issue is that she manipulates constantly.  She says I am a bad person and don't try hard enough to help her with her BPD.  I tell her I tried before and realized I'm in over my head.  She says I should leave then.  Push pull push pull.  I'm on some sick psycho carousel. 

My therapist said it sounds as if my marriage is in its death throws.  I think I agree.  I'm thinking about signing a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) on my next go around with my wBPD.  I'm exhausted.  I believe the Universe has something much better in store for me.  I need to get out while I can still walk out under my own power.

[PuzzledMate]

I'm not pretty sure my marriage is over... .

The FOG is lifting as I see my therapist weekly and I'm on Celexa.  It seems to help me not get caught up in the 'emergencies', imagined or not.  Any perceived slight is met by text messages about how she is crying all day and I know how to fix things but I choose not to do so.  I honestly have no idea what she is referring to most of the time.

Over the past 2.5 years, it has gotten worse.  She has tried to and sometimes has convinced me of the following:

-I am not following through on my promise to have multiple children with her.  I told her I wanted to have kids when we got back together after a brief separation.  I was completely crazy at the time and in heavy FOG.  I have since changed my mind but she isn't accepting of that.  She bought ovulation tests and leaves them on the bathroom counter. 

-We should move to get away from my parents who live less than a half mile away.  My parents love our child and stop by with dinner or to just visit once a week.  She is furious about this. this is in contrast to her family who visits maybe every 6 weeks and lives almost as close.  Most of the time my parents call before coming over.  If they don't, she texts me when they are there saying she is anxious and they are rude.  It isn't like they interrupt anything.  I think it's because she can't be waited on hand and foot by me in front of them.  She feels like she has to put on a happy face, according to her, and 'do stuff so they don't see that she is fat and lazy'.  sheesh.

-I needed a new car, my other was on its last leg.  I bought a newish car that is good on gas.  She turned around the next week and bought a car with as slightly lesser payment.  Her reason:  it will benefit our family.  She had a perfectly good SUV that fit everyone in our family in it fine.  but her new, smaller car is better for the family and she bought it without my help or even consulting me.  I was up front and honest about everything on my purchase.  She was at the dealership and knew every step involved in the process!

-She is convinced that everyone spends at least one night a week going over one another's phone bill.  She asks who I text and call during the days.  I use my phone for my job and get compensated for it.  Of course she doesn't recognize some of the numbers!  Who does this?  Sometimes she answers my texts if I don't hear my phone or I leave it in the room with her.  I have nothing to hide but I think it is rude to answer people as if it was me texting them.

-She feels I am a bad person to have her work for a living.  She feels she should be able to stay home with our child because she is 'missing out'.  I said most people work and have kids.  She said most of the people she knows do not have jobs and their husbands do.  This is a complete lie.  She tries to say I hate her and I am mean for sending her to a job where she is treated poorly.  She doesn't get along with one person (who doesn't get along with anyone btw) and that is who she concentrates on.  If she quit her job we would be in dire straits.  I proved that to her on paper, even with a budget, and she raged about it for 2 days.

I am not falling for it.  She has Fridays off and complains that she has to do everything alone.  I work 50 hours a week, I can't be with her but she seems to overlook the fact that I can't be 2 places at once.  I used to leave early to appease her but no more.  I just can't and don't see the point.  I end up taking care of our son and her without relaxing the whole time.

My big issue is that she manipulates constantly.  She says I am a bad person and don't try hard enough to help her with her BPD.  I tell her I tried before and realized I'm in over my head.  She says I should leave then.  Push pull push pull.  I'm on some sick psycho carousel. 

My therapist said it sounds as if my marriage is in its death throws.  I think I agree.  I'm thinking about signing a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) on my next go around with my wBPD.  I'm exhausted.  I believe the Universe has something much better in store for me.  I need to get out while I can still walk out under my own power.

[arn131arn]

Pm,

Sorry to hear about your frustration. It is so hard to leave these relationships, I was on one for 14 years.

I understand about the 2 incomes. I went to school everyday and busted my butt behind a bar at night every night because she had me convinced early when our son (8) was born that a woman should be there for our kids. She didn't work at all and I began to resent her deeply by putting all the financial stress on me and me missing time with them as a family.

I sacrificed myself, I lost myself in that relationship. I believe I can forgive myself for that but it hurts me to the core missing all that time with my son.

It sounds like you are strong enough and have come to the realization that it is not healthy for you to stay. What is stopping you from leaving? The top 10 things that keep us stuck is on the right and one of them is the belief that you can save, rescue, or help them. Unfortunately that belief system is the one that was hardest for me to realize.

Arn

[DiamondSW]

Arn is spot on.

My exBPDgf (gf thankfully) had no intention of working... .   sure she'd 'take' a bit of work here and there informally if it gave her some pocket money, but she never had any intention of 'contributing' to anything big... . such as a home, car, bills, savings, raising children etc.

It was all a 'man's responsibility' (she didn't know the meaning of the word)

I'm afraid someone had always paid for her up to 30yrs old (her mum) and now that tap was dripping rather than flowing, it had to be replaced with a man.

Her view/reality on life was never going to change.

She'd never work.  She'd get pregnant, then expect the man to pay for everything.  She'd never go back to work.  In the end my T stated 'she's not made any effort up to 30 to get a career'... .   so your expectations and hers are totally different.  The pressure's on you!

Didn't feel like a 'partnership'... .   between 2 loving people.  Sounded like 1880's Victorian England with me called Archibald and her called Annabel... .  

I tried to pay half her costs of becoming a teacher (she instigated this idea btw as 'she loved children' and suggested her mother pays the other half.  £6000 for me ... . and we weren't married, nothing.  Offered it as a 'gift'... . was told also I was 'manipulative'...

Give up

The world's moved on.  You have to move on to.  She's lazy.  If you are doing 50hrs/wk you are doing enough. 

[PuzzledMate]

Pm,

Sorry to hear about your frustration. It is so hard to leave these relationships, I was on one for 14 years.

I understand about the 2 incomes. I went to school everyday and busted my butt behind a bar at night every night because she had me convinced early when our son (8) was born that a woman should be there for our kids. She didn't work at all and I began to resent her deeply by putting all the financial stress on me and me missing time with them as a family.

I sacrificed myself, I lost myself in that relationship. I believe I can forgive myself for that but it hurts me to the core missing all that time with my son.

It sounds like you are strong enough and have come to the realization that it is not healthy for you to stay. What is stopping you from leaving? The top 10 things that keep us stuck is on the right and one of them is the belief that you can save, rescue, or help them. Unfortunately that belief system is the one that was hardest for me to realize.

Arn

Arn and DSW, thanks for the replies.

You are both absolutely correct.  There is no 'partnership' and I have no reason to stay.  No good reason anyway.  She spends money constantly with the reasoning that she works also so she should be able to spend it.  She is just trying to negate her working.

The thing that keeps me engaged is my need to take care of her.  It is a strong urge.  My parents have been married 55 years now and they have a very strong, loving and happy marriage.  They take care of one another unconditionally.  It is what I strive for but my T says it has blinded me to the fact that not all relationships are that way.  She says sometimes relationships are 70/30 or even 80/20 but the balance or average should be 50/50.

I have lost myself by saving her over and over again.  I put myself, my family at times and my health on the back burner.  All for what?  I used to say I don't know.  Now I know:  to preserve the peace.  Why do I keep her around if it is nothing but chaos or the calm before the storm?  I don't store a hornets nest in my house for decoration.  That would be insane.  I have justified this very thing... . over time and slowly. 

My 2 older sons adore their little brother.  but, they are only allowed to interact with him on her rules.  I see her killing their spirit. 

My very recent realization is that I am choosing this pain.  I am choosing this life.  For what?  So it doesn't hurt to leave and go through what a lot of us go through leaving someone with BPD?  How long can fear rule my world?  I want so desperately to replace it with peace and happiness.  I can't seem to hang onto this desire when she is raging or wanting to be rescued.

[DiamondSW]

I think it's easy to blame yourself... . "I am choosing the pain"... . but really?

I don't think anyone chooses pain, it's often what is hoisted upon us by others, bad luck, or life!  Yes, you can walk away... .   but again, to make that decision you need time away from her, some peace, the ability to think rationally yourself, and perhaps a good friend to talk to... . certainly a therapist.

I think you are reaching the end of the line, but the decision you make next and how you go about it, will affect dramatically how much 'healing time' you need.  BPD's LOVE chaos, they thrive on it -so think carefully about an exit plan.

You've done really well to recognise that this can't continue. 

You have also done really well not to 100% overwhelm yourself with work -which will lead to a breakdown when both your home and work life fall apart due to exhaustion/depression.

Now I suggest you think about the next step and how you walk away in the healthiest way for you.  Before you do anything though, pre-emp her moves.  Know what she will say (so it doesn't destroy you beforehand), expect the BPD behaviours and protect your life (I mean the people and things important in your life).

Your parents relationship sounds blessed and rare;  it will be awful for you to finally recognise that yours is not this and there's nothing that you can do about it.  Fear is a horrible thing;  I split from my exBPDgf 6mths ago and my life since then has been wrecked by the fears that she instilled in me about her sexual abuse, arranged marriages, just ridiculous, ridiculous things... . she did it on purpose and she won (for 6mths)... . but I saw her 5 days ago and she's still afraid and going nowhere.  Her 'power' over me has finally gone... . and therefore i'm not really in fear any more.

6 mths -a  long time.  But I like myself now.  I HATED myself when I was in the relationship with her.  I REALLY REALLY HATED me.  Which is ridiculous... . as that's what subconsciously she wanted me to feel... .   she equated me with her sexual abuser cousin. 

She was punishing the wrong man! 

I hope you take care and think about your partners past... . research BPD and put all the pieces together to make the right decision.  I wish I could buy you a beer and say good luck to your face, tough times... .

[In_n_Out]

It must be a female pwBPD thing... . my ex desperately wanted to get pregnant and she would talk about how she's not made to work; oh, she loves meeting new people that walk in to the office but all of her male bosses are "chauvinists" and all the other girls in the office just want to gossip and only *she* gets in trouble when she engages in the conversation.  That and they are all jealous of her.  So, she job hops one after the other but her ultimate goal, as she expressed many times, was to be a stay at home mom.  And since my income wouldn't of allowed that, plus as I started to approach 50, my desire for more kids disappeared (thank God) so on hindsight I am convinced that she figured she would never get that lifestyle with me so she became more and more difficult and emotionally dysregulated to the point that we were hardly speaking (this after she had me move out of our home).  Next thing I know, she's hooked up with my replacement.

I'm sorry that you're going through this.  I only got a peek at what it would of been like had I gotten fully sucked in to marriage and kids with her.  Be grateful though that you are blessed with a child.  Your child and yourself *must* be your #1 priorities.  As the movie says "go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all booked up here". 

[GreenMango]

It's not a female BPD thing only.  I spent a long time with a man with BPD where these exact things where going on repeatedly.  These insecurities and fears and the way it manifests in behavior is a BPD or BPD traits thing.  IT also could be a very insecure and immature person thing too.  But I prefer to address behavior because the label really doesn't do much good unless you are a professional and looking for treatment plans.

Hi Puzzled

You are in a tough spot with your marriage.  These things can be really complicated too especially with kids and finances.

It does sound like your wife struggles with some insecurity issues.  You asked who looks over the phone bill and runs an inquisition on every number.  Someone who's very afraid of being cheated on even when evidence points to the contrary.

You listed four very common issues members bring up as having causing major problems.  The having a baby issue, the extended family conflict, financial choices, and work issues.  While I can't tell you whether to stay or go I recommend looking at the Choosing path Lessons for the undecided board since you guys are still under the same roof. 

It sounds like if your marriage wasn't in the death throws you may want to stay married.  A couple of questions that may help guide you in this decision:

-How familiar are you with the clinical aspects of BPD or BPD traits?

-Have you checked out the books or staying board lessons on the specific communication styles, like SET validation DEARMAN, and developing boundaries?

-Have you talked with an attorney about divorce and how that may play out for your family?

It's not easy being where you are now it's an exhausting place and can seem pretty hopeless.  Take your time getting your feet (emotion) under you so you can make decisions you can live with long term.

[maxsterling]

Wow.  That's rough.  Sorry to hear you are dealing with this.  unfortunately, I can relate.  My GF has many of the same attitudes.  She wants marriage and kids.  But when pressed further, it seems what she really wants is some sort of guarantee about what she will have in her future.  She once told me that she wanted to have a child so that she would always have someone in her life that loved her.  I told her early on I wanted kids too, but after seeing her complete nervous breakdown over the past year, I don't even want to think about the subject.  yet, she still tries to manipulate and guilt trip, claiming I am breaking my promise and changing my mind.  She really just doesn't understand what a healthy relationship is. 

she treats the job/money thing the same way as your wife.  She hasn't worked in months.  I barely get the household expenses paid.  And yet, she's on my case for not getting a higher paying job.  My fault that we are poor, despite that she earns zero.  She can't hold down a job for more than a few months - ever in her life.  And when she has a job, she complains about it endlessly. 

I think both of these issues boil down to her complete lack of identity.  She doesn't know who she is, what makes her happy, or what gives her value.  Probably the same for your wife.  She hates herself, looks for validation externally, and when you fail to give her the impossible, she blames you. 

It's rough, and I feel for you.  I'm glad you are seeing a T and attempting to work on yourself.