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Author Topic: adult male child out of money wants to tap into gifted monies (prob. for drugs)  (Read 553 times)
stevielin

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« on: March 27, 2014, 12:26:32 AM »

our son has always been a great student he is  in last year of  college he has worked at his college doing an internship which earns  him credit (not cash) he has had a small debit acct for expenses over the last  3 years and college has been paid for with monies inherited from grandparents we have never pushed him to get a job  due to a full credit load and the internship. 1 year ago he  admitted himself to local hospital psych unit dx,tx bipolar Columbia univ 2nd opinion then dx BPD /comorbities bipolar social anx ocd eating dis.dx cluded due to drug use.    he has had  therapy and a gamete  of different meds since 17 yo even dbt( which he dropped out. )  He is  now in full blown denial that he may have BPD and most recently  this  past year we have been  made  aware of substance use disorder with drugs much worse h then we thought.  he has   been on/ off sick for past six month ( treated by mds bacterial infections )this hasn't  scared him enough to  want to stop using these dangerous drugs. my husband  and I have been reading all we can, valerie porr , tons of you tube video, shari manning  etc  however once again I have hit a wall... . I sat at the table  with him tonight making  eye contact,  being empathetic  even  a  validating his  feelings then  I lost all words and sat there  a complete blank!.     what he wants is   access to some of the money he inherited from his grandparents , approx... he is out of his own money .  we now realize that much of it has been spent on drugs.  he has told openly told us(he has never been a liar)  that again some of this money will also go  to drugs .He can rationalize  the use  with how careful he in  how he  tests it,  only uses minimally and how he has been able to  control it and function. and that because of his ocd  right now  not being able to have it/ get it, this is causing so much anxiety and dysreguation in him  leading to being  very depressed ( which is even more harmful. he has severely cut him self and talked of suicide in the past) he feels that he is emotionally, cognitively addicted not physically  .  my husband and I try to valid his  feelings without agreeing with the drug use.    he currently see a psych who has him on suboxone but we know that he uses something in between.   I have been trying to urge him back to  therapy which he feels made him feel worse about himself then  I present him with a local therapist who works for years with mindful mediation he would consider that he says. we talk about a part time  job and how we could help him look for one. how good it would be for  him(though we also  are aware of the extreme stress it would cause)  we would do anything for him but gosh giving him access to monies knowing it is going to drugs ... . we really  don't know how to answer him. or where to go from here the denial make it so difficult there  are many days  we  just feel like  what ever get him tomorrow he has to be alive to get help----we as parents  are also  so in need of support and direction... . thank for listening
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jellibeans
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2014, 10:53:36 AM »

Dear stevielin

I would not give him any money for drugs... . not a penny... . no matter what he says.

He needs a treatment center that can help him with his addiction and his BPD... . he has probably been self medicating and that is how he has made it through this far. I am not sure I understand what drug he is on... . have you thought of sitting down with the P? I truly believe if this P is not helping you need to find a new one. I found my dd16 a new T and it made a huge diference. Don't be afraid to change... . there is help out there. Have you looked up RTC? How old is he now? Dropped out of school? Living at home? I am not sure where he is getting the money to buy drugs?
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Kate4queen
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2014, 02:16:54 PM »

He sounds like my son. He asked for the money he would've got going to university. I offered to pay for him to finish up his AA at community college. He raged.

We arer very careful about what money we give him because of past drug use. We give him enough for food and gas and he has a roof over his head with his brother. That's it. I can't stop him spending the small amount we give him on whatever he wants, but he's not getting any more.

I think you're going to have to be strong and keep saying no.
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stevielin

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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2014, 02:51:06 PM »

You are right kate4queen like you we give him a roof food gas for the car he and siblings use family cars he is an a student and very near a completing s ba degree as i said he interns in a lab that gives him 3 credits/semester that translates into approx 1400$/year we never. Pushed him to get a part time job being education and internship where primary focus.    in the past i would always keep a small balance  aprox. 300$of his own (money from grandparent )in his debit account this he used for lunch at college coffee etc however i recently became aware. That much of this $ has been used for drugs this is his own money i control the larger bulk which basically  means only i can  go online and refill his small debit acct. so even though it is his own. Money i do feel like iam just handing him it!about five month ago i had a phone session with valerie porr herself we talk about my son for one and half hours it is amazing the insight she has i seemed she knew him  intimately. After hearing our story she was fulled convinced that a rehab facility for him could be detrimental so at present because he is animately in denial about dx of BPD we as parents are trying to work on ourselves(did i mention that he is a senior class psychology major at a very highly rated university with a voracious appetite for all new reacher!which complicates thing a bit! Again thanks for input and listening
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2014, 02:57:23 PM »

Hello, stevielin... .

First thing, I'm very sorry for the pain and stress you are under; when we have a child (even an adult child) who not only has BPD, but also substance addiction issues, it is terrifying to watch him self-destruct right before our eyes. We also want so much to believe that he is trying to get off the drugs, that things aren't as bad as we fear, that he can handle it eventually himself. It's a tornado of emotions and stress, and you wonder how long you can withstand it... .

If your son has a Psychiatrist who has him in a Suboxone program, then the addiction problem is opiates; quite possibly (or probably) Heroin. Suboxone in the state I live in is very, very controlled. The Doctors who are certified to prescribe it can only have a limited number of patients at a time, there is usually a waiting list for a patient to get into the program, and it is a very fine science. They will not prescribe more than a certain amount to the patient, they want that patient to eventually taper off of it, and if there is any hint of the patient selling the Suboxone on the street (it is very valuable, actually, and fetches probably as much--or more--than actual Heroin does), that patient is dropped cold and blacklisted from re-admittance to the program.

Suboxone is formulated to not only take the place of the opiates the user is addicted to, but also to make it very painfully uncomfortable for the user to use both at the same time. If your son is taking his Suboxone as prescribed, he shouldn't be also taking something else between prescriptions; if he is doing that, then he's likely overtaking the Suboxone, or selling it or (less likely) sharing it (maybe for money). I'm surprised that his Dr. is still keeping him in the program; to be in that program there are generally many drug tests to make sure he is taking the proper dosage, and not over or under taking it.

I do believe his mention to you "how careful he in  how he  tests it,  only uses minimally and how he has been able to  control it and function. and that because of his ocd  right now  not being able to have it/ get it, this is causing so much anxiety and dysreguation in him  leading to being  very depressed ( which is even more harmful. he has severely cut him self and talked of suicide in the past)", but not "that he is emotionally, cognitively addicted not physically". I'm sure he believes that he isn't physically addicted, but his actions with the Suboxone makes that unlikely. Very unlikely.

I know this information because my own son (37) was like yours. In every way, except for the college attendance. He was like yours, up until a year ago when he was admitted to an Intensive 21-day Inpatient Dual Diagnosis Program, where his BPD was finally diagnosed and he was treated for it with DBT, and other therapies. He had planned suicides many times in his life, had very self-destructive behaviors, was depressed, and had a multi-year Heroin addiction. If you want to read his story, click on this link: My Son's Dual Dx Pgm & NFT Story.

Now? He has been clean and sober (of any drugs or alcohol) for a little more than a year, is still in Therapy (he sees an Outpatient Therapist, Psychiatrist and is in Neurofeedback Therapy), and is recovering in a slow and steady, healthy way. His BPD symptoms and behaviors are practically gone (he's still an underachiever with Social Anxiety, but he's making headway with those things). The Dual Diagnosis Program is what changed his life, helped him "see the light" and drop his self-destructive and addictive behaviors.

I agree with jellibeans:

I would not give him any money for drugs... . not a penny... . no matter what he says.

He needs a treatment center that can help him with his addiction and his BPD... . he has probably been self medicating and that is how he has made it through this far... . I truly believe if this P is not helping you need to find a new one... . Don't be afraid to change... . there is help out there. Have you looked up RTC?

He needs a Dual Diagnosis Program, Inpatient (because obviously the combination of Outpatient and his Psychiatrist isn't working), and time to get clean and sober. He is not interested in losing this addiction, and his Psych should be aware of that. His BPD will not be regulated if he is addicted to opiates, and he probably can't get off of them on his own--he can't even get off of them with the Suboxone. Believe me, I saw my son try for more than 4 years to kick Heroin; he attended 2 separate "normal" Rehabs over a 3 year period. He was even being treated with Suboxone for a few months. Nothing helped. Nothing. (Valerie Porr was right about a conventional Rehab program.) Not using his own scientific formulas or techniques, not regular Rehabs, not Suboxone. Nothing until he got real help at that Dual Diagnosis Center.

Excerpt
we would do anything for him but gosh giving him access to monies knowing it is going to drugs ... . we really  don't know how to answer him. or where to go from here the denial make it so difficult there  are many days  we  just feel like  what ever get him tomorrow he has to be alive to get help----we as parents  are also  so in need of support and direction... . thank for listening

I've been there, stevielin, and know the way my mind got cock-eyed with fear, angst, empathy and love for my son. I want to support you, and give you direction, as does everyone else on this site... . Keep telling us your story, and asking your questions. We are listening  
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stevielin

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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2014, 03:28:27 PM »

You are right kate4queen like you we give him a roof food gas for the car he and siblings use family cars he is an a student and very near a completing s ba degree as i said he interns in a lab that gives him 3 credits/semester that translates into approx 1400$/year we never. Pushed him to get a part time job being education and internship where primary focus.    in the past i would always keep a small balance  aprox. 300$of his own (money from grandparent )in his debit account this he used for lunch at college coffee etc however i recently became aware. That much of this $ has been used for drugs this is his own money i control the larger bulk which basically  means only i can  go online and refill his small debit acct. so even though it is his own. Money i do feel like iam just handing him it!about five month ago i had a phone session with valerie porr herself we talk about my son for one and half hours it is amazing the insight she has i seemed she knew him  intimately. After hearing our story she was fulled convinced that a rehab facility for him could be detrimental so at present because he is animately in denial about dx of BPD we as parents are trying to work on ourselves(did i mention that he is a senior class psychology major at a very highly rated university with a voracious appetite for all new reacher!which complicates thing a bit! Again thanks for input and listening
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jellibeans
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2014, 03:32:20 PM »

Dear stevielin

I am not sure I understood your last post... . I assume you are using your phone to post... .

Can you tell us what Valerie Porr recommended for your son? I am hoping she gave you some advise?
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stevielin

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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2014, 04:28:57 PM »

sorry you are  right using I phone  too difficult  I re posted! a the time  we hadn't even read her book she really wanted us to read it  then attend  classes  at tara that was  approx. 5months ago since then we have been reading reading  reading
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stevielin

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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2014, 04:48:53 PM »

rapt reader  your story was one of the first I read on this board and it has given me  hope. our son has been open with us  yes opiates, heroin ,derivatives (this is so hard to type) have been the drug of choice the illness he  has been suffering  has been a bacterial abcess in his shoulder. the biggest issues are he doesn't feel  his drug problem is a problem and doesn't  feel  the dx of BPD fits him... . he  doesn't  want help it seems all we can due is work with whatever we  are learning from this site  and books and continue  trying to urge him to a  life  of sobriety and worth  living   as with your son the social anxieties have gotten in the  way so many times he has very few friends and no female relationships ( except  unfort one that was with a girl from dbt group it was all on the computer and txt that didn't work out andhe was heart broken and only really was in dbt for 3 mos  he dropped out) leaving a bad taste for dbt!

he is  a senior  psychology major at a highly rated college so  he  has much knowledge do  we have been trying to" raise the floor"  for him. he has never stole from us always been honest but without money now and an addiction not sure  where that might lead  the shame is nearly palpable when he asks us for money even for lunch now, it breaks our heart  how do  we  urge him back to therapy  and towards sobriety when he himself doesn't want or thinks he needs it without further shaming him... . the one + thing this week is that he said he'd be open to learning/practicing mindful med with a psychologist I know
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jellibeans
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2014, 05:49:46 PM »

Did you attend the classes? Check out the articles here... . they really helped me a great deal. What I think is very important is that you have boundaries with you ds... . only he can get help but if he is open to your new meditation T then jump on that... . I would think his feild of study would help him recognize his illness... .
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2014, 05:58:26 PM »

Thanks for filling in some blanks, stevielin. When my son went to the Dual Diagnosis Program, it wasn't for BPD; the DDx Program is where that diagnosis actually came from, which led to his treatments and recovery process. So, don't pressure your son to accept that diagnosis in order to get help, or to go to that type of program.

The reason he was admitted to that DDx Center was for a combination of:

Suicidal Ideations

Drug Addiction

Depression

ADD

Social Anxiety

You actually only need one mental health issue (and if he's been suicidal in the past, that counts, along with the drug addiction) coupled with any of the things mentioned above--and there are other issues that could qualify for admission, but those above are what my son was diagnosed with before they added the BPD at the Center itself. Maybe there would be a way to find something your son would agree with in your talking to him about it, that would help him agree to go? I can't recommend this type of treatment facility enough; my son's life was saved by it.

Your son sounds so much like mine; I knew the great guy he was, the sensitive, intuitive, loving soul he could be. And it broke my heart also, to see him at his worst: detoxing from heroin, strung out and hurting, ashamed to be so. And also still wanting to find money somehow (and he never stole anything from us, either; he did favors for "friends"--like driving them places--in order to make money for drugs, or to trade for drugs), and ashamed about that. It breaks my heart now remembering it, and that ended the last weekend of February 2013.

I don't know how you can convince him to go; my son went because of a convergence of traumatic events that culminated with him getting arrested for possession, almost committing suicide the following day (and he was only at the police station for a few hours and then let go), and ending up in the Psych Ward of our local hospital that night. They let him out after 4 days, only with his promise to go to the DDx Program when a bed became available, and he got one 2.5 weeks after being discharged from the Psych Ward. Without all of that, my hunch is that he never would have gone to it... . Sad, but true 

Here's are some Articles that should help you:

Helping a loved one with BPD seek treatment

Supporting a Loved-one with Borderline Personality Disorder

Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder [New]

Have you had the chance to check out all of the LINKS to the right-hand side of this page? THE LESSONS would be especially helpful to you, if you haven't read them yet. I hope with all my heart and soul that is some way for your son to get to the place where he realizes he needs help, wants to change his life and get clean and sober, and then accepts the help to do that. I can assure you that the day my son signed the release form to go to the DDx Program, he was unsure of it, and not interested--really--in giving up heroin (though he'd been almost 3 weeks clean on the day he entered it). It's an insidious drug, with fingers that clench in every direction in an addict's mind and body... .

I, also, had a hard time even writing the words "heroin addict" in relation to my son. It has taken me a very long time to accept it and be able to talk about it or write about without discomfort. I know how you feel, and hope that somehow we can be of assistance in getting your son some help, stevielin 

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Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
stevielin

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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2014, 07:01:41 PM »

Dear jellibeans no we havent attended tara support group learned about tara started digesting the book in nov it resonated with me husband started reading it in december i have also been using this board a lot the reason we both havent gone to her class in the city is we have to other children our daughter a recovering from depression and sevre eating disorder 18 yo presently away a school snd stable and our middle son 20 yo would  moved home after 2 years of college into our house with our oldest son and his sufferings by dec our middle sin is in a sevre depression talks of suicde ideation unable to complete final exams he is also now under psych meds and therapy and seems to be improving. But is very effected by his brothers problem he feels helpless hopeless.  and angry. So as you see yes my husbsnd and i have been overwhelmed and both need a support therapist and valerie class but leaving the home for sny long periods of time together really worries me.  Hsve you been to the tara classes or weekend seminars
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stevielin

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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2014, 07:06:37 PM »

Also we have been on the list with family connection there maybe a local group meeting however it seem like the best would be to find a therapist for us husband and  i.  Someone who is really skilled esp with BPD. we are a loving family who so want to help him it seems unbelievable this is all happening
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