Re: R/S advice, BPD style (continued)

[maxsterling]

Hopefully "give me some time" means "give me some time to deal with my issues" not "give me some time to process how you hurt me."  I've got a feeling that she means the former, because if it was the latter, why even bother telling you that?

And if that is the case - that's a very good thing.  That means she is backing away from the situation with you (and your replacement) to take a look at herself.  I can tell you that is something my girlfriend talks about doing, but is completely incapable.  If she were to say to me one day, "I need a week by myself to clear my head", sure I may be a little worried, but logically I think that is what she needs to do to actually work on herself.  If your ex is like my GF, she's probably not had more than a few days alone in her whole adult life.  I bet she has pretty much gone from one dating partner to the next, and if somehow she has done more than a few weeks, finds the next available guy.  Am I right?  Never time to sit and think of what she actually wants in a r/s.  Hell, my GF has a hard time just having lunch by herself.  So your ex taking time to think could be a very good thing.  Of course, the end result could be an answer that leaves you without her, and you have to be okay with that.

[Pecator]

Hate to be a buzz-kill, but isn't it cruise time?

Hope taking time isn't her opening up to the cruse.

[In_n_Out]

Max, yes, that is correct.  Guy, after guy, after guy and she's talked openly about that and she has also very recently said that she just needs to find a way to spend the time alone to learn to love herself.  She's talked about how the thought of doing that makes her anxious and fearful but she knows that would be best.  Perhaps that is what she means.  She said so just the other night when she said "I need to be alone... . just me".

I don't know the dates of the cruise; it hurts to even bring it up to her but she did say months ago that it was in April.  That doesn't leave a lot of time.  She's at work today.  Maybe it got pushed back?  Maybe that was a lie?  Maybe she canceled and just didn't tell me because she didn't want me to think that would mean that she's ready to come back to me?  She did say the other day that she had bought some hats for the cruise so I don't know.  She's also said that she is looking forward to the cruise itself but not the circumstances (company).  She's also commented that she just wants to get through this cruise so that she can "take care of things"; that she can't back out because it would be too hurtful to them (can't get a refund) and just too hard of thing for her to do (too stressful a situation to deal with - just go on the cruise, fake a smile when around him and his family and try and have fun.  I know that's her thought process).

Text this morning - I kept NC overnight - "I love you".  I replied that it was comforting to hear that.  That I'm feeling down today; feeling like crap about the stupid thing that I texted and also down because I hit the big "50" tomorrow and life just isn't quite where I was hoping it would be at the half-century mark.  But I'm very grateful for those wonderful things that I do have and that I'm ok.  She replied "I'm here... . you're not alone".

I told her how much that I do appreciate her; and I really do.  I really love this woman and I know that both her and I have some issues so I don't know if we could work in a longterm r/s but I sure would love to have the chance to just date her again.

[In_n_Out]

Quick update and I need advice from the panel.

Yesterday was my birthday.  The ex snuck over to my place in the middle of the night and decorated the front porch and my car with balloons and streamers and left a nice card saying how proud of me that she was and how much she loves me and always will.  She also said that she would meet me at the place that we had our first date four years prior tomorrow night (that would be tonight, 4/25).  So we have that "date" set up.  

She didn't join me for birthday dinner with my son.  I invited and she declined.  She later sent an email saying how tempted that she was but that she has plans for our "date" tonight and that "I will understand".  

She's been very "bonding" lately; much more talk of a future together, that type of stuff.  It really had my hopes on the rise.  I told her that all that I want right now is the opportunity to "date" her.  That we never dated.  She said that is what she always wanted with me.  Hopes on the rise and then this in this mornings email:

I pray for healing and lasting change.  The moments when you succumb to hurtful gestures or words out of insecurity/frustration/hurt really are difficult for me... . and a BIG part of my hesitation to want to share my life with you.  Those moments are what cemented my choice to go.  It was just too much in the end.  And, we were disconnected.  I hope you understand.

More than just a little deflating.  I know her and I know the BPD in her has negative thoughts creep in *constantly*.  The negativity causes drama in an otherwise joyous moment.  I also know that this is her "justification" for leaving me and going right to a replacement.

So my question; best to just blow off these types of comments?  Easy enough in an email but what if tonight she gets negative and this same thing comes up?  Best way to react with validation?  SET - the "truth" part... . do I mention how her negativity hurts me as well or that being negative about things in the past jeopardizes a future?  Any suggestions here welcomed.

[In_n_Out]

So I'm thinking that at some point tonight I'm thinking of letting her know that I almost canceled the date tonight (which isn't a lie).  That I understand how I've said things to her that have hurt or upset her but that I too am hurt by her words and am concerned about her being negative and the "finger pointing"; that her email put 100% blame for the break up on me and that I too am hurt with words such as that.

Again, I know her reasons; she feels herself "caving" and so fears of engulfment creep in and so she goes negative.  How do I let her know how concerning to me that is without a dysregulation meltdown?  Or do I just ignore the moments of negativity and ride the positive waves (which the ration is up to 80-20 positive to negative at this point)?

[maxsterling]

I/O -  GRRRR!  I hate this aspect of BPD.  They do all this crap that hurts you, and you let it slide, say nothing, and radically accept, and they get all bent up over a little thing that you said out of frustration, making you out to be the biggest son of a gun on the planet.  Mine has hit me, been negative and depressed for 10 months, criticizes, invalidates, and complains, yet if I am 10 minutes later coming home from work and forgot to text message her, I'm an inconsiderate jerk who doesn't love or care about her.  And it's not just with me, I watch her do this with friends, doctors, and co-workers.  I watch people try and try and bend over backwards, but the minute someone is late or messes something up, they are incompetent fools that hate her.  

The reality?  It's not about me, or you, or anyone else.  Your ex is using those little things you said or did as excuses for her natural emotions or bad behavior.  So, she feels rage, she feels hurt, and she wants justification for why she feels that way.  But the truth is, we can't all be 100% validating all the time. Eventually, they will find something in our words or actions to justify their emotions, even if it is something they misinterpret or mostly make up. Thus, you can be perfect in every way, yet say "thank you" to a female waitress, and next thing you know, you are being accused of lusting after that waitress!  That's just a justification for her abandonment fears.  I suspect your ex being upset now really has to do with her not feeling ready to break it off with your replacement, not ready to be enmeshed with you again, not ready for change, and finding an excuse to stall and blame her "not ready" emotions on you.  

Should you blow it off?  Well, what she said was pretty invalidating to *you* because she is implying that your hurt doesn't matter.  But, I think this is just par for the course with BPD, and I think we have to blow off most these comments slide if we are to have a r/s with a BPD, especially when they seem to be in a stage of instability.  Just know it isn't about you.  There's no problem in trying to get her to understand that you were hurt, too, but make sure you validate the hell out of her feelings first, and if she doesn't fully grasp that she was hurtful, don't press it.  In my experience, it does soak in.  There are times when I have mentioned to her things she did that were hurtful and got frustrated that she chose not to apologize.  Yet days later, she would bring it up, usually asking if she still does those things or asking if I still feel hurt.  

As for mentioning the negativity - yikes. The first time I brought this up to my GF, it turned into a 2-day rage that included self-harm behavior, threats of suicide, and the police being called.  Your ex probably already knows she is too negative.  I'm sure dozens of friends, family, and exes have told her that before.  I'm learning that rather than saying "you are too negative and that hurts me" (to which she hears as me blaming her for my emotions = rage).  So, it would do you no good to tell her something she already knows.  I'm learning it is better to simply encourage her to be more positive rather than bring up that she is too negative.  So, if she talks about how life sucks, how much she hates herself, how much Jane Q Public pissed her off, I will respond, "I'm sorry you are frustrated.  Life stinks sometimes.  What can help you feel more happy about things?"  Challenge her to look for positives - try and re-direct her thoughts.  For example, yesterday she was texting me on and on about how worthless she feels and how much she hates herself and how she hasn't done anything all day.  So I replied, "I'm sorry you are so down.  You have a lot to deal with right now.  Have you played with the guinea pig yet today?"  And what did she do?  took the guinea pig out, then started messaging me about how cute the guinea pig is.

[maxsterling]

Just saw your update - am I reading correctly 80% positive, 20% negative?  WOW!  I'd take that in a heartbeat!  I deal with 70% negative, 20% neutral, and 10% obsessive (positive, but not healthy positive - "you are the only thing that makes me happy", etc)

[In_n_Out]

Well it might of just flipped 20/80 and it may be all she wrote.  She sent a text asking if we could move the date back to 8:00.  I said "Sure, 8:00 is fine.  Busy day?"  She replied:

Cleaning right now.  House is full of dust.  Then out and about to find a pair of water shoes (uh, for her cruise).  No fishing.  No insecurities today.  Please... . please.  I'll see you at 8:00.  I love you very much.  I'm meeting you because I love you. OK?'

I stewed on it but didn't reply.  Invalidated again.

She then sent a text:

I/O?  I feel it coming... . I can't do this.

I couldn't hold back:

"I'm going to be there at 7:00.  My original intent was to go and reflect on the happiness of our first meeting and I'm going to do that.  I too have been hurt by things said and done and feel a lack of validation for my feelings of what I've been through too.  It hurts to be solely blamed for the breakup.  I wasn't "fishing".  That is invalidating as well.  I was so happy this morning and then your email.  Why?"

No replies.  I've dysregulated.  She's no doubt dysregulated.  We can't get through 2 days without an episode.  You know the routine Max, you just outlined it.  I have some emotions because... . well, let's see, I was left for another guy and she's about to go on a cruise with him... . and then I'm blamed for the break up and for being insecure and causing the problems.

Like she just said... . "I can't do this".

[maxsterling]

Oh man... . sounds like you just reached your limit.  I'm sorry.  I feel bad for you.  And I feel bad for her.  Keep in mind, you haven't done anything wrong.  There's nothing wrong with telling her that you are hurt.  You weren't mean about it, you weren't invalidating.  You were hurt, and rightly so. 

I feel myself running into the same roadblock when moving forward.  I just don't feel right unless she starts recognizing or accepting that her behavior is really hurtful to me at times.  I don't expect the behavior to stop, but for her to just accept that I've been deeply hurt by things is something that would help with trust - trust that she actually does love me and not just say she loves me.

take good care of yourself today.  My bet?  She will show up at 7.  But who knows.

[In_n_Out]

She's trying hard - and so am I.  I'm quite proud of the exchange that we just had.  In a nutshell, she said that she didn't mean to be invalidating; that she was simply trying to convey why this has been so hard for her and to convey her emotions "but apparently not very well".  That we have to be able to communicate without hurting one another and that she has been looking forward to tonight very much... . "sharing it with you". That she loves me and "I'm sorry.  So very sorry about everything". 

I validated and told her how much I'm looking forward to tonight as well.  That I'll be there at 7:00 as originally planned but will just simply wait until she gets there.  That I love her too and that we can get through these challenges, we have every time.

Max: I'll send you a PM.  Since we are in common situations and have been leaning on each other here on the forum, maybe we could communicate offline (email, IM, texting, whatever) to support one another?