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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Common courtesy  (Read 814 times)
FigureIt
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« on: May 13, 2014, 07:45:42 AM »

Why is it that a BPD has no common courtesy, yet they expect it from you?  It is very infuriating to me that I am expected to let my uBPDbf know my plans, where I'm going etc., yet he can just decide to do something and not even tell me.  Also, the tone of voice he uses sometimes is just rude and for no reason.  And again if I am short in tone or he interprets my tone as unacceptable then he ignores me.

They are like children and I'm sorry but by the time you are in your late 40's you should know courtesy, especially if you are in a relationship.
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antjs
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2014, 04:45:28 PM »

you dont have to have courtesy when your emotions have ceased to develop when you were 5 or 6. you do not have to have courtesy when you feel that all people in your life sooner or later will leave or abandon you. you do not have to feel courtesy when life becomes a game and people are just objects to suck up them. read about BPD more and then you will know.
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AimingforMastery
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2014, 05:18:08 PM »

Antony & OP,

This is a real them that drains me. Jeez, the O/p nailed it; no courtesy!

I understand some of the reasons for it, but forgive me whining but it is just another reason why it is almost always a one way street.

Care to expand a bit Antony on the reasons why?

Many thanks,

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antjs
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2014, 09:21:21 PM »

Antony & OP,

This is a real them that drains me. Jeez, the O/p nailed it; no courtesy!

I understand some of the reasons for it, but forgive me whining but it is just another reason why it is almost always a one way street.

Care to expand a bit Antony on the reasons why?

Many thanks,

if BPD would be expressed in one expression that would be fear of abandonment. it originates from childhood. all BPDs were either sexually, physically, emotionally abused or neglected by one of their parents. The other parent is always too helpless and miserable to even stand up for the child. Imagine a baby growing up thinking that mommy and daddy are bad people and they have left me (mostly emotionally) and they could not take care of me. what would be the perception of the world to the BPD ? the world is a very dangerous place of course. if mommy and daddy left me then strangers will actually be worse and however good they are in the beginning they are gonna leave me sooner or later.
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waverider
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2014, 06:45:12 AM »

They see the world through their eyes only. Lack of empathy skills means they cannot see it through yours, so they do not see their lack of courtesy.

They can mirror courtesy and play the role when it suits them. Unfortunately the core values we have which is behind courtesy is lacking. If we are not considerate, we feel bad. They do not feel this, as the courtesy is only a facade. I do not mean that in a nasty manipulative way, only that they have no real them, so most of their "faces" are just the facade that suits the mood of the moment.

We are just collateral damage. It is often not as personal as it sounds.
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FigureIt
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2014, 11:22:48 AM »

I can grasp that it is a facade and to not take it personally, although much easier said then done.  My issue is the expectation on his part for me, yet he does not either by choice or not do the same, unless it suits him.

A small example that just happened we were cleaning our basement up the other night (due to water coming in) at some point he decides he's done and goes up to shower & go to bed.  At no point did he come over to me and say "I'm done for tonight & going to bed."   But, if I do this then he has a problem... . heck he has a problem if I go to bed before him & don't stay up.

Yet claims he did and I didn't hear him - but this happens constantly recently and blames me I can't hear.  But, I know he doesn't say things.  Example: He didn't say "Happy Mother's Day" to me, when I asked he stated "he whispered it, I just didn't hear it."

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waverider
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2014, 12:42:48 AM »

I can grasp that it is a facade and to not take it personally, although much easier said then done.  My issue is the expectation on his part for me, yet he does not either by choice or not do the same, unless it suits him.

A small example that just happened we were cleaning our basement up the other night (due to water coming in) at some point he decides he's done and goes up to shower & go to bed.  At no point did he come over to me and say "I'm done for tonight & going to bed."   But, if I do this then he has a problem... . heck he has a problem if I go to bed before him & don't stay up.

Yet claims he did and I didn't hear him - but this happens constantly recently and blames me I can't hear.  But, I know he doesn't say things.  Example: He didn't say "Happy Mother's Day" to me, when I asked he stated "he whispered it, I just didn't hear it."

That is the disorder, his mind is all wrapped up in what he is thinking or doing. Impulse and neediness. Lack of empathy leads to lack of obligation and responsibility. So he does what he feels in the moment without consideration. Then later goes into defensive cover up mode to avoid responsibility.

There is no fairness. Forget about striving for fairness. All you can do is have specific boundary actions around important issues and just accept that is the way it is around the rest. There is no point getting yourself worked up over things you are unlikely to change.

He can probably make more appropriate responses when his mind is not wrapped up in what he needs or wants. ie when its convenient.
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froggy
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2014, 02:05:40 AM »

I had to finally put my foot down and demand he say please to me. He can manage to say it to everyone else but me.

He claimed it was begging. For almost 6 months he would rather go without what he wanted or do it himself than say please.

I stuck to my guns with it and finally he will say please... . still have to nudge him once in awhile though.
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AimingforMastery
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2014, 02:07:56 AM »



I am sorry you have to put up with this, truly.
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going places
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2014, 07:31:14 AM »

Why is it that a BPD has no common courtesy, yet they expect it from you?  It is very infuriating to me that I am expected to let my uBPDbf know my plans, where I'm going etc., yet he can just decide to do something and not even tell me.  Also, the tone of voice he uses sometimes is just rude and for no reason.  And again if I am short in tone or he interprets my tone as unacceptable then he ignores me.

They are like children and I'm sorry but by the time you are in your late 40's you should know courtesy, especially if you are in a relationship.

The other side of that coin could be that he wants to know where you are at all times, so he does not get caught doing something he should not be doing... .

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hergestridge
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« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2014, 08:30:25 AM »

I had to finally put my foot down and demand he say please to me. He can manage to say it to everyone else but me.

He claimed it was begging. For almost 6 months he would rather go without what he wanted or do it himself than say please.

I stuck to my guns with it and finally he will say please... . still have to nudge him once in awhile though.

This is the key to so much trouble in a BPD relationship. Fear of rejection. My wife has in the most destructive manner eliminated all forms of "please" from our daily life. She never asks me to do anything. She either says it's my turn to do it or that it has to be done.

She's even said it openly, that it's easier for her to be b___y and bossy instead of asking people to do things, because that makes her feel vulnerable.

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ugghh
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« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2014, 08:32:42 AM »

Ohh I can so relate to this post.  My uBPDw was perpetually unable to be on time to anything and yet somehow it was everyone else's fault and we were unrealistic to expect her to arrive on time.  Wave rider hit it on the head when he said its not personal it's just who they are.

When my oldest son was a high school freshman my stbx was a teacher at the middle school that was a mile up the road.  It seemed logical that she should drop him to school as this was about 20 minutes out of the way from my work.  Of course there are several errors in that assumption.

First that the uBPDw understands that the basic laws of physics work and that if it takes 30 minutes for the rest of the world to make the trip that it would take her 30 minutes and therefore one cannot leave a mere 20 minutes before school starts and expect to be on time.  Second that the uBPDw would ever deem to alter her morning routine to accommodate the needs of her son.  For example if she wakes up late that she could consider foregoing the time it takes to brew her morning coffee to enable them to leave on time.  Nope.  50 plus tardies that year.  Try to explain that to his teachers when his mother is a teacher!  

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waverider
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« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2014, 07:54:40 PM »

She's even said it openly, that it's easier for her to be b___y and bossy instead of asking people to do things, because that makes her feel vulnerable.

this a good point and highlights it as a personal defensive mechanism and nothing to do with their attitude to anyone else, apart from not being empathetic as to how it makes others feel
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waverider
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« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2014, 08:01:54 PM »

Ohh I can so relate to this post.  My uBPDw was perpetually unable to be on time to anything and yet somehow it was everyone else's fault and we were unrealistic to expect her to arrive on time.  Wave rider hit it on the head when he said its not personal it's just who they are.

When my oldest son was a high school freshman my stbx was a teacher at the middle school that was a mile up the road.  It seemed logical that she should drop him to school as this was about 20 minutes out of the way from my work.  Of course there are several errors in that assumption.

First that the uBPDw understands that the basic laws of physics work and that if it takes 30 minutes for the rest of the world to make the trip that it would take her 30 minutes and therefore one cannot leave a mere 20 minutes before school starts and expect to be on time.  Second that the uBPDw would ever deem to alter her morning routine to accommodate the needs of her son.  For example if she wakes up late that she could consider foregoing the time it takes to brew her morning coffee to enable them to leave on time.  Nope.  50 plus tardies that year.  Try to explain that to his teachers when his mother is a teacher!  

I get this to. My partner doesn't do anything all day so has no excuse for being late for anything. No matter how important the appointment we do not set off for it until the actual appointment time, even if its 30mins away through rush hour traffic. Before getting in the car she has to sit down and have a smoke, even though already late. Then on arrival she has to wait outside and have another smoke before going in.

Of course it is never her fault we are late.

It has taken a long time to accept that this is the way it is, otherwise it invariable resulted in me stressing and a conflict as I try to hurry her.

If I am doing anything important for me I simply don't take her as I will be late.
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AimingforMastery
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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2014, 10:25:28 PM »



These are sad but true posts.

Tonight I may have finally broken up with my BPD gf. All I was trying to say was I need common courtesy, I need her to treat me the way she treats her boss - as in she bites her tongue and does not lash out. Please try to find a different way to express it, I can hear you are upset, irritable, etc etc... but just don't say things like "you disgust me" etc etc...

It went OK, until she latched on to one event where I did my best but it was not perfect - and she exploded and told me I would never ___in' hear from her again. She rang back later to tell me she meant it.

I simply said I wasn't prepared to talk to her unless she was civil and nice and so politely said I still stand in love and calmly got off the phone.

They can't hear that they need to be civil, nice. It's like they need a punch bag and it has to be the SO.

If she doesn't ever call again will I be relieved or sad? Both are true but you can't make a relationship with one hand clapping... .
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