Afraid to have my own children

[G.J.]

I'm wondering if anyone else has felt this way?

My mother is uBPD (Queen/Witch) and I believe a closet alcoholic.  My sister has been diagnosed with BPD and is a raging alcoholic.  My paternal grandparents and my maternal grandmother were alcoholics.  My maternal grandfather had some sort of mental illness.  And a paternal first cousin is also an alcoholic... .   No question, my family is a hot mess.

For many years, I couldn't answer the question, ":)o you want children?"  I think deep down I wanted my own family, but I was living in terror that I'd turn out like my mother.  The notion that I could end up treating my children the way my mother treated me and my sister, was too much for me to bear.  I also felt like, "If that was my model for a mother, and my model for a family, I'm sure to screw it up."

Finally, I've come to realize that I am NOT my mother, and I would never treat my own children (much less anyone) like she did.  I'm confident that I'd actually be a very good mother, and I can finally admit to myself that I want my own family more than anything.

But in the process of trying to understand my childhood and family members, I've come to learn that mental illness and alcoholism have both been linked to genes, and are often passed on from generation to generation.  (Go to an AA or Al-Anon Meeting and you'll see the validity in this immediately.)  This information has presented me with a new fear.

I can't help but wonder if it would even be fair to a child, to take the risk of passing on these genes to them, and if it might not be better if I just adopted instead?  Beyond that, I'm doing everything I can to get away from this kind of dysfunctional behavior.  As absolutely horrible as this is to say, the thought of raising a child with BPD and/or addictions brings me to tears.  While I know you can never ensure the health of any child -- now that I know that my genes are predisposed to this sort of stuff, it really gives me pause.

My sister hasn't (and probably won't) have any children, and neither will my cousin.  I'm almost wondering if it might not be better to just end my family's genetic mutations here and call it good?

Has anyone ever felt this way, or have any thoughts on the subject?  Thanks.

PS -- This is in NO WAY meant to pass any judgment on those who have had children.  This is utterly a product of my own neurosis, I am sure.  For those who have had children, I envy your courage and self-confidence. 

[Gerda]

This is a thing I struggle with as well. My mother and sister both have BPD. My mother's father sexually abused her, which is probably what made her so crazy. My mother's brother and sister never had kids because they knew they couldn't be good parents, but my mom thought she could do a better job than her parents. And, to her credit, she did do better than her parents, though that's fairly low bar.

I want to have at least ONE kid, but I'm really afraid of messing it up too. On the other hand, my husband and I aren't getting any younger, and we're at the age where hesitating much longer will run a genetic risk just from that. What really scares me are all these new studies saying older fathers have a much bigger effect than they used to think, and my husband is a bit older than me.

On the other hand, I've talked this over with my therapist, and he thinks it would be fine for us to have a kid. When I first brought it up, afraid that I would turn out like my own mother, he bluntly said, "Why? You aren't borderline." He thinks we would be good parents, mainly because we're aware of the risks. We're aren't going into this assuming we'll be perfect parents automatically, like my mom did (she still thinks she was an awesome mother!). We know we'll have to work on it.

I also believe that genes are not everything, especially when it comes to behavior. I know there is a genetic component to some mental illnesses, but I think the environment can also have a big effect. Just looking at how differently I turned out compared to my sister seems to show that. My mom treated us very differently (the golden child vs. scapegoat thing that's been discussed on this board before), and I think it shows. It could be that I didn't get as many "bad genes" as my sister did (which is what my mom claims, since she's a perfect parent and all), but I know there's a big difference in how we were treated too that must have had an effect.

Another thing to consider is the father. You don't mention being married G.J. Do you know who would be the father of your children yet? My husband is really wonderful, and his family has pretty much taken me in and become my replacement family. There is some alcoholism running in his family (his dad and sister have both struggled with it), but compared to my family, they're great. No families are perfect, but they're a huge improvement.

Even if you have some "bad genes", your kid will only get half your genes, and half from the father. So if you choose your mate wisely, you have a chance of your kid getting better genes from your mate. And then of course hopefully the father will be involved in raising the kids too, giving them a good environment to grow up in.

One last thing though... . you mention adoption. If you're really afraid of the genetic component, and not as much about how you'd raise the kid, that might be a good idea. There are a lot of kids out there that need homes. I consider that an option for myself too, though I'm not sure yet either. I think I'm actually more worried about being a bad parent whether I adopt or not, so I'll need to get over that first.

[GeekyGirl]

Hi G.J.,

You've asked some great questions, and as Gerda said, you're not alone. Parenting is an enormous responsibility, and many of us grew up with some *ahem* not ideal parenting role models. It's totally understandable that you're nervous about having a child. This is such an individual and personal decision, and I can tell that you're not taking it lightly.

You are not your mother--that's absolutely true. If you decide that you want to have a child that's yours biologically, you're already aware of some of the potential risks (and can start preparing to mitigate them). You also mentioned adoption, which can be a wonderful alternative.

Are you working with a therapist? That's helped me tremendously, and that might be a good person for you to bounce ideas off of.

Is this something you need to decide soon, or something you can take some time (even a few years) to think about?

Whatever you decide, we're here for you. 

[G.J.]

Hi Gerda and GeekyGirl,

Thank you so much for your responses.  I really appreciate your thoughts.  It's nice to know that I'm not alone in having had some of these feelings.  It's kind of a crummy way to walk around life, thinking these things about yourself!

He thinks we would be good parents, mainly because we're aware of the risks. We're aren't going into this assuming we'll be perfect parents automatically

My T said something very similar -- the very fact that I'm concerned and asking the question and would consider not having kids, tells him that I WOULD be a good parent and (for many reasons) there's no chance I'd be like my mother.  He said that if someone cares SO much about children that they'd forego having their own because they're afraid they'd harm the child -- they don't have the capacity to harm them in such detrimental ways that someone BPD/NPD can.

My mom treated us very differently (the golden child vs. scapegoat thing

I'm curious... .   Was your BPD sister the golden child?  My sister was recently diagnosed with BPD -- she was the golden child, and I was the scapegoat (I don't have any PD's).

You don't mention being married G.J. Do you know who would be the father of your children yet?

I'm not married, and no, I don't know who the father would be.  This is just me pre-planning.  I often feel like I can't honestly answer the question, ":)o you want kids one day?"  That's kind of an important question to be able to answer when looking for a potential mate!  And can you imagine how that first date would go, if I answered that question with, "Well, I'm not really sure, and let me explain why... . "  HAHA  (kidding)

If you're really afraid of the genetic component, and not as much about how you'd raise the kid

I used to be terrified about how I would raise the kid.  But after a LOT of work on that in therapy, my T finally has me convinced that I'd be a good mother and wouldn't cripple my children emotionally.  He said that all a mother REALLY needs to do, is love her child, and be a "good enough" mother.  That's it and the kid will turn out happy and healthy "enough."  Anything above and beyond that is gravy.  And he said that if the mother is emotionally healthy (which he says I am, save a few minor things we're working on) then her instincts will guide her on how to raise the child and deal with things.  He said that having a good model of a mother is not a prerequisite for being a good mother yourself.

But now that I've learned about the genetic component, and I've seen how remarkably both mental illness and alcoholism really just march on down through the generations -- that's the part that has me more worried now.

Is this something you need to decide soon, or something you can take some time (even a few years) to think about?

Like Gerda said, I'm getting to an age in which I don't have a WHOLE lot longer to think about it.  I'm actually considering harvesting my eggs, so that if I DO decide to have children, I don't have to feel rushed into doing it with potentially the wrong person, AND I'll have younger and healthier eggs to do it with.

I hadn't thought about the fact that the child would only be getting 50% of my genes, and if I found someone who doesn't have a history of mental illness or alcoholism in his family, then maybe my kid would have half a shot in life... .   But if my kid did turn out to have these kinds of problems, I'd feel SO guilty and responsible... .   I'll have to keep working on it in therapy! 

[AsianSon]

Finally, I've come to realize that I am NOT my mother, and I would never treat my own children (much less anyone) like she did.  I'm confident that I'd actually be a very good mother, and I can finally admit to myself that I want my own family more than anything.

But in the process of trying to understand my childhood and family members, I've come to learn that mental illness and alcoholism have both been linked to genes, and are often passed on from generation to generation.  (Go to an AA or Al-Anon Meeting and you'll see the validity in this immediately.)  This information has presented me with a new fear.

I can't help but wonder if it would even be fair to a child, to take the risk of passing on these genes to them, and if it might not be better if I just adopted instead?  Beyond that, I'm doing everything I can to get away from this kind of dysfunctional behavior.  As absolutely horrible as this is to say, the thought of raising a child with BPD and/or addictions brings me to tears.  While I know you can never ensure the health of any child -- now that I know that my genes are predisposed to this sort of stuff, it really gives me pause.

My sister hasn't (and probably won't) have any children, and neither will my cousin.  I'm almost wondering if it might not be better to just end my family's genetic mutations here and call it good?

Has anyone ever felt this way, or have any thoughts on the subject?  Thanks.

After learning of my mother's BPD condition, and seeing it in her mother as well, I worried about it being in me and my children. 

But a few things might help you:  first, there is no absolute ":)NA is destiny" kind of situation with BPD.  In other words, environment seems to play a very big role.  And to be honest, much of the BPD behaviors are found in non-BPDs as well.  It is just far less pervasive and enduring in non-BPDs. 

Second, and assuming that DNA plays a role, there is no guarantee that you have that DNA.  Every child is the result of a big genetic roll of the dice in terms of the genes they inherit.

Third, and assuming that DNA plays a role AND you have that DNA, there is still no guarantee any child of yours will have it AND encounter the environment that would trigger it. 

And last, your comments about being a good parent would keep your child away the environmental components necessary for BPD development.  So your "the risk" might be much lower than you think. 

The big genetic lottery in each child includes adopted children, and gives us the beautiful diversity of people in the world.  Being a good parent to a child just enhances that beauty. 

[G.J.]

Thanks, AsianSon.  That was a really lovely post with a lot of thoughtful points. 

I think one of the big things that spooked me, was that I've recently been attending Al-Anon Meetings (for family members of alcoholics) and I've also attended a few AA Meetings (just for perspective on the disease).

I am FLOORED by how many people's stories start with: "My grandfather, uncle, 2 cousins and my child are all alcoholics."  I mean, take any given person in these programs and out of 10 family members, at LEAST 3 of them are addicts.  You can literally watch it go right down the generations.

Sometimes it's straight line: Grandfather, father, son.  Sometimes it skips around: Grandmother, uncle, sister, child.  But I have never met a parent of an addict that has said, "Gosh, no one in my family ever had a problem with alcohol/drugs, but my child is an addict!"

Granted, like you said, that doesn't mean my child would necessarily get that or the BPD gene... .   It's just that my concern was already bad enough when I realized my mother was uBPD.  Then my sister was diagnosed with BPD and that really frightened me.  Then I found out my grandparents were alcoholics and so is my sister, and my cousin, AND my mother probably was too.  Then I start going to these meetings and see how strong the gene is... .   YIKES.

It makes me want to pull the covers up over my head and hide! 

I will keep reminding myself of your points though.  They are quite helpful and calming.  Thank you. 

[Ziggiddy]

GJ

You have made me think of some interesting things more than once today.

My paternal grandfather, my maternal aunts, my maternal grandfather all had alcohol addictions and some died from related diseases. I am not alcoholic although I have had problems with it in the past have no trouble now and rarely drink. My sister drinks a lot - she has a number of uBPDm's behaviours and problems and I am sure her alcohol use comes from pain relief. My brother rarely drinks and never had a problem.

Obviously not all alcoholics use alcohol. Not all BPD'd people have BPD'd children. Yes there is a chance of predisposition but given all the chances to have an environment as free of dysfunction as possible -one of safety, love, security, encouragement and laughs can make all the difference in the world.

I wonder if you are nervous about something that you feel you have no control over and are maybe trying to minimise risk? I have 2 kids who seem to have healthy self esteem regardless of the fact that I did not know about BPD or understand it's effects on me before I had them. It was instinctive to shy away from some of the things that made me uncomfortable or hurt as a child and I think it was easy to underestimate the child's own role in it's education. If they are allowed to - if they feel safe they'll say "Hey Mum - stop clinging to me! Hey mum - you're acting like a bit of a whacko - just sit down and have a cup of tea will you?" Can you imagine having said anything like that to your own folks? I can't!

Abused people learn abuse but they then have the CHOICE not to teach abuse and many many learn not to teach that. BPD'd people are emotionally injured (I gather) but they are not without capability of finding a bandaid.  They often seem to choose not to, and feel safe and familiar in their own construct of the world.

As a side note, while I was fearfully telling a friend that I was scared I was handing 'bad behaviour' down to my daughters and I admitted "I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what to do" she said "Well you know what NOT to do, right?" And I think she's right.

[P.F.Change]

Hi, G.J.,

I can understand your concerns--I think a lot of people here have felt afraid of having children for the reasons you mention. So you are not alone. The decision to become a parent is a very personal one, and no one can tell you what is right or wrong for you--only you can decide what feels best.

I think other posters have made some very good points. It is true that a predisposition for BPD (or for alcoholism) can be inherited; environment can be a factor, too. It may help to keep in mind that, despite the best work of some

(potentially misguided) people, there is no such thing as a perfect genome yet. Everyone has something wrong with them genetically. I have a strong family history of diabetes, for example. Seriously everyone on my father's side has this disease--and it is strongly heritable. Should I not have children because I could become a diabetic, or pass diabetes on to them? It is potentially fatal. Add that to the strong history of cancer on my mother's side, and am I just dooming my children for failure?

My point is, yes, there is a chance you have genes that might predispose someone to developing BPD, and yes there is a chance you could pass them along to your children. As AsianSon said, there is also a chance you don't and that you won't. I have made a deliberate effort to exercise regularly and eat whole, healthy foods, which reduces my inherited risk for both diabetes and cancer. I am teaching my children to make healthy choices as well so that they will have a lower lifetime risk. By the same token, my mother, both grandmothers and an aunt have BPD, and other relatives have NPD. I have made a deliberate effort to resolve my past traumas and to learn healthy coping skills and teach them to my children. In both cases, I am making different choices than my parents and grandparents made, and I am trying to offer a different environment than the ones they offered me as well. Time will tell, but I think this makes a difference.

My therapist recommended a book to me called "Giving the Love that Heals" by Harville Hendrix and Helen Hunt. I thought it was good and it might give you some things to think about. From the review on amazon: "... . by resolving issues that originated in our own childhood, we can achieve a conscious, and thus healthier, relationship with our children, regardless of their age."

Wishing you peace,

PF

[clljhns]

Hi G.J.,

I shared your fears at one time in my life. I can vividly remember as a teen making the statement that I was not getting married and definitely NOT having children. I didn't have a deeper understanding of my position at the time. I did know, however, that I did not want to be anything like my parents. I was terrified for years that I would be just like my mother, a raging lunatic! 

When I did get married and found out I was expecting my daughter, I was not happy about it because I wanted out of the marriage. (This is a story for another post.) Very soon, though I began to get excite about the prospect of bringing life into the world. I don't know why I knew that this little being was their own person. This is not say that there weren't all kinds of genetic cards stacked against her: BPD and NPD grandparents; alcoholic great-grandparents; ASPD father. Scary, really when you think about it.

When she was born, I still had these fears that I was going to screw up the biggest responsibility in my life! I worried that I would say and do the wrong things. I worried that I would get frustrated about something and explode on my baby! In response to these fears, I would find it hard to express any kind of frustration at all. Not towards her, but when her dad would start his abusive protocol, I would freeze and stay and take it. I didn't stay with him long, mostly because I refused to raise my daughter in such an unhealthy home.

The one thing that I do remember doing as a result of my childhood, was begin to validate and empower my daughter from a very young age. I can remember telling her what an awesome person she was at 2 yrs old. This may sound like a strange thing to say to a toddler, but I just really understood that she was her own person. She was not an extension of me or her father.

I don't know if any of this helps, but I do understand your fear. By the way, my daughter is now 27 and is not an alcoholic or drug addict. She doesn't have traits of any mental illness (she was in therapy from the time she 4 until 12--story for another post). I also am not an alcoholic nor drug user. My daughter and I actually use only natural remedies for our health.

Peace and blessings 

[StarStruck]

Hi G.J - You are an individual that has their own merits. Try not to worry about who your relations are. You may have picked up some habits from their behavior but if you're a balanced person I wouldn't let this hold you back. I know people that aren't BPD themselves but have gone on to have children (you could always see a counsellor to talk through your fears on this). With regards to genes; environment. especially with behavioral disorders has a big role to play... . Empathy is a learnt behavior. Goodluck.

[StarStruck]

Hi again G.J - You may like this book to read: Daring Greatly Brene Brown.

[ziniztar]

From another perspective: my dBPDbf explained to me once he'd really really want to have kids, he loves them and they love him. But he's afraid to pass it onto his children and quote "I don't wish this type of life to anyone, I don't want to make them experience what I'm experiencing".

I can see that and it will be a big challenge. We're not at the point where we need to make a decision about this so there's time for him to go on with therapy and for me to look at myself. And to support each other in it.

I think that with the right amount of knowledge on validation and how to ceate a good, stable, safe environment at home BPD genetics don't have to evolve into true BPD. I think anyone on this board already has good antennas for this type of behaviour and is not afraid to seek help, either from a therapist or friends. As long as we keep that in mind, I'm up for the challenge.

What I have started doing is talking to my brother and father about the Karpman triangle. I know that our family communicates in a dysfunctional way and that is definately not something I want to pass on. It's also not a healthy family environment for a potentially BPD developing child. I hope that the awareness will open up communication. If I'm able to change these dyanmics in my family a little bit, it's easier for me to change, and the risk of passing it on becomes smaller and smaller. That's all I can do for now.

[lm1109]

Although I understand that mental illness can be passed down through genetics, and have had the same fears for my own children, I think there is more to it. Both my parents grew up with active alcoholics as parents... . and so... my Dad was an alcoholi. My mother grew up with a mother who was borderline... and so my mother is borderline. None of the previous generations recieves ANY help and denial was the only response to these illnesses. My mother does not believe anything is wrong with her... my Dad however is 21 years sober and still regurly attends AA. One time when I was young I asked him if I would be an alcoholic. He told me even though its a disease you could potentially have... . it does NOT mean you definatly will. He then told me something that stuck with me forever... he said if you love Yourself you would NEVER poison yourself! I believe thats the key. Teach your children to love themselves and to respect themselves and to have self esteem. You cant control genetics... . but you have the ability to give your children a diffferent environment then you grew up in... . an environment filled with love compassion forgiveness. Does that mean just because you loved your kids and worked on yourself and did the best you could they will definatly be fine... . no. But its all you can do because the rest is in Gods hands... . and that goes for every aspect of our lives. I WISH I could control the outcome of mine and my loved ones lives but theres just no way to. Although they have been passed dowb some crappy genes... . so were we... and we are making the difference and the change by getting help and working out the problems... . I can only pray that things will be ok. I know one thing they will have a MUCH better chance in life than I did! Gokd luck with either decision... .

[Best.of.You]

I, too, was in the school of thought that I would never have children because I didn't want to harm them the way my uBPD mother has harmed me.  I don't have the correct model for parenting between a uBPD mother and a father who checked out during her rages. 

However, the point was raised to me that because I know what kind of parent I didn't want to be, I may actually be better suited to not repeat the same mistakes that my parents had with me, particularly because I am aware of the lasting effects.

The fact that you are even concerned about having children already speaks volumes.  And there isn't a particular gene for BPD, and it is unclear how much is nature vs nurture. 

I recently am more confident in wanting children because I am more confident that my SO and I could create a loving environment for children without the drama.  Adoption is also a possiblity, although some adopted children have their own past pain and trauma to address as well.  But what a wonderful thing to do for child, to give him or her a stable and loving home.

Whatever your decision is, you will make the right one for you when the time comes. 

[G.J.]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their really thoughtful responses.  Everything you had to say was really encouraging and helpful.  I guess I'll just have to see how I feel and what situation I'm in when the time comes.

Making sure that I'm with a partner who either doesn't have these FOO issues, and/or is aware and healthy himself, is something I really need to make a priority.  You guys are right -- I'm only half of the equation.

The last several months have just been so eye opening, in truly recognizing how much dysfunction, mental illness, addiction, etc is in my family.  And I'm only now getting a grasp on how far-reaching the affects on me have been.  I think I've been trying to "normalize" everything for so long -- but now really seeing it for what it is, there's just nothing "normal" about it.

I just don't want to perpetuate the cycle.  It wasn't fair to me and my sister for my parents to allow their dysfunctions to so grossly affect us... .   But I know I'm not them, and I don't have a PD, and I'm a lot more aware -- I'll have to keep that in mind. 

StarStruck  You're the 3rd person to recommend that book to me in the last several months, so I picked up a copy.  First few chapters so far have been very interesting.  Thanks!

[HappyChappy]

The jean alone is not sufficient to produce a Narcissist, it must be coupled with the right environment. Berating the child, constant scolding. Or adoring for no reason. So if you treat your kids right - why should there be a risk ? I know in rare cases BPD has occurred, but rare is rare - and most people have a defective something or other.

You could adopt – however, the best way to create a psychopaths is to pass a child from foster home to foster home in their first 7 years.

Maybe the more important question is can you give a child what they need ? Can you make them feel loved and safe ? I know my BPD Mom couldn't.

[CamiellaFlower]

Hi G.J

I understand completely how you feel.  I can relate to your situation and everything you said...   Both my parents suffer from depression, my sister is BPD, I have severe anxiety (which I manage pretty well), my little brother has anxiety and depression, and I am certainly positive my mum's mum has some form of PD.  I have contemplated the same question as you and I have decided that when I have kids I am adopting because the thought raising a child like my sister and going through what my parents had to go through is terrifying.  Especially when there are children out there in need of a good home which I know I am capable of providing.  I don't mean this to sway your opinion either way-- just wanted you to know you are not alone!

[HappyChappy]

G.J.

My gran, Ma and older Bro - all Narcassists. My two kids, not a bit. Not realy a survey, but my kids weren't brought up in a War Zone, as my gan, ma and bro (me to) where. Also NPD is 1% of the population. If it where a prevaling jean, that percentage would have increased over time (as brown eyes have over blue). Worth noting my wife's father is also a N. So we had double jepardy and it turned out fine.

[Gerda]

Also, something else I thought of that I think may have only been briefly mentioned.

If you're thinking of adopting a child instead of having a biological one because you're afraid of passing on a BPD or alcoholism gene, how are you going to be sure that your adoptive child won't have any "bad genes" from his or her biological parents?

And again, not that adoption is a bad idea. I think it's actually a very good idea. But I don't think that guarantees anything either. Though, I'm not sure how adoption works. Maybe you can "screen" the kids somehow to make sure you get one that doesn't have any family history of mental illness. But would you even want to do that?

Point is, you never know what you're going to get when it comes to genes. You just have to deal with the genetic hand you're dealt. My mom and sister both have BPD but I don't. My husband's father and sister have both been in AA, but he's not an alcoholic. And the environment has a huge effect (my mom has BPD, but her father RAPED her, so it's kind of understandable she'd be messed up in some way!).


Of course, I say that now, but I'm still terrified of having a kid myself who might have some kind of disorder. Though what I'm more worried about is my husband's age. I've read stuff about the risks of having a father who's over 40, and he is (I'm in my early 30's, so I'm still "safe" I guess). Supposedly it increases your risk of schizophrenia to have a father over 40. Of course, that means our chances of having a kid with schizophrenia are still only 2% instead of 1%, but of course I'm still terrified that we'll be in that 2%. What if our kid ends up having BPD AND alcoholism AND schizophrenia? OH NO! 

So, yeah, that's how my mind works too.

[BabeRuthless]

Oh G.J., have I felt this. You are not alone. I am almost at menopause and never had children of my own for the reasons you cite. At this juncture, am feeling intense sadness that I am not a mother.

I adore my niece -- the daughter of my twin with borderline traits -- but am also afraid for her and her future in some ways.  My sister has been struggling with mental illness since adolescence and is a recovering alcoholic, and her husband (niece's father) is also recovering alcoholic. My brother-in-law's mother is an untreated, at times homeless paranoid schizophrenic. My mother is uBPD who was sexually abused for years as a child, and abandoned by her (bi-polar) biological father. My older half sister and her husband are both recovering addicts; their daughter is in prison, has been addicted to heroin, and has anxiety and depression. Their son has been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder. Paternal grandmother who raised twin and me was uBPD. 

I was terrified to perpetuate these kinds of conditions. I feel torn that I did the right thing but also that there's a huge hole in my life/heart now.

May wisdom, confidence, peace, and knowledge guide you in your own decision. You sound like a loving person.   

[ziniztar]

Let's say the chance you pass the hereditary part on is 50-50. What is left is:

- you pass it on, prepared for it, creating an environment that will NOT further feed it. All is well.

- you pass it on, prepared for it, and for some reason the BPD is nurtered (sexual abuse, bullying). You're still prepared for it.

- you don't pass it on. All is well.

I'd say the odds are pretty OK  

Obviously I get your fear. It's in the back of my head as well. I want to have kids, am 28, so should I even stay in the r/s with my dBPDbf? For now yes, I think he and his attitude is worth it. Being really rational about this helps me to see it's not a lost cause .

[isilme]

I have definitely decided not to try to have my own kids - if it happens, it was meant to by a plan beyond my own.  Otherwise, I am fine attempting my personal eugenics of my own choice, to try to stop the cycle that has followed both branches of my family for what looks like generations.  If I get to a place where I feel both more financially and emotionally secure, I feel adopting is the best option, because I think I can empathize more with kids who cannot connect with their biological family, and I know how important a stranger accepting them who doesn't "have to" can be.  It meant lots to me to be esteemed by my friends' parents, especially if my own couldn't do the same.  There are lots of kids out there in the foster system who can use a home, and who have probably been pulled out of a home similar (or far worse than) my own was.  It'd be a way to pay it forward, and stop the cycle of nurture as well as nature.

[PleaseValidate]

I personally have never felt that strong drive to sire my own biological children. There are multiple layers to my feelings. Mental illness of my entire family and the potential guilt for passing it on is definitely one rationalization.

I'm an only child and was hardly ever around babies or younger kids growing up. And when I was, other females in my age bracket would be wining to hold it like that was some sort of reward for good behavior and I'd be like, "Why?... . How is this in any way stimulating, fun, interesting, soothing, etc?"

I think I'm missing the "mom gene."  But the sad thing is that in 2012 I finally came to the realization that I'm the most maternal chick on my maternal side. Both my BPD mother and bipolar aunt (no kids) are scarily "in it for themselves" when it comes to this whole life thing.

My Grams thought she was dying several times over the last decade and always reminded me when in the hospital at such times, "You don't have to have kids if you don't want to. " Although she never said it, i always sensed that she wanted kids as much as my mom wanted me. But what else was a pretty and uneducated female supposed to do in 1954?

I knew from the age of 5 that I was a "mistake" per my mother. In my late teens/early 20s, every time I was excessively tired, my mother would make sure I wasn't pregnant but made it known that if i was, "You'll have to have an abortion ASAP."

I also have an almost pathological fear of post pardum depression and psychosis and sometimes it scares me that I empathize SO MUCH w moms like Andrea Yates.  Because having children seems so damn hard if you're doing it right.   It really bothers me that society minimizes such an awesome responsibility and the stresses thereof just because it happens everyday.

All that being said, if I could hire a surrogate and get a 24/7 nanny, then sure, I'd consider it.   

[alicein1derland]

Hi GJ,

I too can relate to the fear, although I think mine was more related to my lack of confidence in my ability to mother, given my complete lack of an appropriate role model, than genetics per se.  I also feared developing post-partum, given my mother's and my own history of depression.  I did eventually have children (and no post-partum), but waited eight years after being married and was working with a therapist almost that entire time (and still do!).  Like others have said, I think just questioning your ability and truly wanting to be a good parent is worth so much, and can perhaps negate or at least greatly minimize any baggage we started with.  I would also think the motivations for having children would be different too (ie., not just wanting a child to love/take care of you, which I think we see in our BPD mothers).

Yes, genetics plays a role of course, and I know two women - one bipolar herself with multiple hospitalizations, and one with a schizophrenic mother - who both chose to carry a child from a donated egg and their husband's sperm.  But alcoholism, for example, is not nearly so clear-cut.  Even the people in AA, like you said, would have LIVED with these relatives, and learned to turn to alcohol for anxiety and to cope with problems.  So socialization/parenting/family would have had at least as big a role, if not more, than genetics in these cases.  Besides my BPD mother, my father is a twice-recovering alcoholic, and there is alcoholism all over both sides of my family.  Neither I nor my siblings are alcoholics (at least not yet!), and we're aware of the genetic propensity, so I think we're more aware and/or more careful than perhaps we'd be if it weren't in our family.  I know the ANXIETY was inherited - I'm anxious, at least one sib is, and I see it now in my son and in one of my nephews.  I know my sister had tried meds with my nephew, and I have my son attending biweekly counseling, just to nip it in the bud and learn good coping strategies NOW. 

I guess the bottom line is... . none of us can predict the future or have 100% control over everything (or anything, LOL).  Remember, 20% of the population has some kind of diagnosable mental disorder.  Like any physical "disability", it's how you adjust to/cope with it that determines your functioning.  People with BPD don't even think they have a problem, so never/rarely seek treatment, forget "prevention".  If you're aware, and raise children that are aware, you're already way ahead of most of the population!

Best,

Alice