I talked to the best friend and now I am confused

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi,

It's been a while since I was here. Not sure if this is the right board. It feels the most fitting for me though as the Leaving-board is about moving on and although we are not together and have no contact this is a different kind of question.

I broke up with my BPDxbf over a year ago. I went NC for 4 months and he didn't attempt to contact me. There has been some communication since then, mostly about returning some of his things but he has been pretty mad with me since the breakup. Recently I found a whole bunch of photos that I had forgotten about and these are very important to him but it just turned out too complicated to get them to him. I let him know I had them but he never got back to me, I suspect because he got angry about something or the same as before, who knows 

So I called his best friend to ask her. I was actually really nervous about calling her because he always used to me that his friends didn't like me or thought I was crazy. But nothing could have been further from the truth. She was very happy I called her and said she had wanted to talk to me since the breakup but didn't have my number. We talked for a very long time. She said he had not got over me, that he is feeling really depressed, and she knows that our problem was for the most part caused by his problems with himself and then asked if I wanted her to talk to him for me. I said no. I really got the feeling she was wanting to mediate and for us to patch things up. She also invited me to come and stay with her. We talked again after a few days. She said she hadn't had time to talk to him properly but that he had at least not got angry that I had called her and for us to give it time and she reiterated the invitation for me to come and stay.

Then a couple of days ago I get a message from him telling me not to contact his friends because they are all worried and think I act crazy.

So now I feel confused. I haven't contacted her since his message, not because I believe him, but why would she say he is not angry when he obviously is? And why extend an invitation for me to visit? That is doing way more than required. She is his very best friend and understandably her loyalties lie with him. I now don't know if I can/should call her. I would like to hear what she says about this.

[mitti]

Hi,

It's been a while since I was here. Not sure if this is the right board. It feels the most fitting for me though as the Leaving-board is about moving on and although we are not together and have no contact this is a different kind of question.

I broke up with my BPDxbf over a year ago. I went NC for 4 months and he didn't attempt to contact me. There has been some communication since then, mostly about returning some of his things but he has been pretty mad with me since the breakup. Recently I found a whole bunch of photos that I had forgotten about and these are very important to him but it just turned out too complicated to get them to him. I let him know I had them but he never got back to me, I suspect because he got angry about something or the same as before, who knows 

So I called his best friend to ask her. I was actually really nervous about calling her because he always used to me that his friends didn't like me or thought I was crazy. But nothing could have been further from the truth. She was very happy I called her and said she had wanted to talk to me since the breakup but didn't have my number. We talked for a very long time. She said he had not got over me, that he is feeling really depressed, and she knows that our problem was for the most part caused by his problems with himself and then asked if I wanted her to talk to him for me. I said no. I really got the feeling she was wanting to mediate and for us to patch things up. She also invited me to come and stay with her. We talked again after a few days. She said she hadn't had time to talk to him properly but that he had at least not got angry that I had called her and for us to give it time and she reiterated the invitation for me to come and stay.

Then a couple of days ago I get a message from him telling me not to contact his friends because they are all worried and think I act crazy.

So now I feel confused. I haven't contacted her since his message, not because I believe him, but why would she say he is not angry when he obviously is? And why extend an invitation for me to visit? That is doing way more than required. She is his very best friend and understandably her loyalties lie with him. I now don't know if I can/should call her. I would like to hear what she says about this.

[half-life]

Hi mitti,

It is a very good you have an open conversation with his best friend. I can relate somewhat.

I was with my brother when he has died from cancer. A few days after, I have a phone call with his ex-gf. I don't remember who called who. I was dreaded to contact her because they had a bad break up and my brother has not treated her well. He has even deliberately delete all of their pictures together. Anyway his ex regret that we have not called her when he was sick. She really wanted to attend to him has she knew. We have a good conversation and reminiscence about the days. We met once more and I returned some of her stuff left with my brother. It was therapeutic to have this conversation and really open up.

I think his best friends means well. She does not necessary have to take side. She is aware your ex have some issue and she might truly think it is the best for you two to reconcile. That say she has no control over your ex and his emotion any more than you do. This might be the reason of the contradictory account of his reaction. One thing I am sure is your ex exaggerated when he say they think you act crazy. You conversation with her proof that she do not have any ill feeling toward you. Whatever is other people's expectation, it all come down to you two. They could play a supporting role but they couldn't fix a relation if it really does not work.

[patientandclear]

Hi Mitti -- so good to see you here.    I've wondered how things were going.

If I were you, I'd have found the best friend's account tremendously validating.  Does it feel that way?  That he is not over you -- the blankness you encountered all that time is not indifference.  I know it's still very sad, but in a different way, and in a way that at least confirms that you matter.

I don't find much mystery in the gap between what the friend told you of his reaction, versus what you heard from him.  I'm sure he doesn't want you in touch with his friends, but he's not giving the real reason -- that he wants to keep information compartmentalized -- so you get some random garbage about them thinking you're crazy.

I imagine your ex did not tell the friend his full reaction.  He may have played it off with her like "Mitti? oh great.  Hey, gotta go ... . ".

I definitely WOULD be back in touch with the friend, just so she doesn't think you dropped off the planet because YOU are flighty and unreliable.  You can say "hey, X prefers that we not be in touch; I really appreciate you and appreciate the offer to stay, but in the end, the two of you have an important r/s and I wouldn't want to put stress on it.  Does that make sense?"  You can give her the chance to explain whether actually she's more interested in pursuing a friendship with you now and  your ex is so strange she's ready to pull the plug on that; or to accept your offer to withdraw graciously.

[mitti]

Hi half-life,

Thank you so much for sharing.

Yes, I also felt that it was very therapeutic to talk to his friend and no, I don't expect her to take sides or even want her to. I have always felt grateful that he had a friend that he could be totally honest with and open up to, somebody safe when I seemed to represent all that was dangerous in life, albeit that was far from true of course. And yes, of course I believe you are right that his friend doesn't really think I am crazy but still I couldn't help but wonder if there was any truth to it. I guess that's why I posted because a part of me felt worried.

[mitti]

Hi patientandclear,

Good to see you here too   and I hope you are doing well.

Oh god, yes, it was so validating to hear what his friend had to tell me, all of it. That he is not over me, that she had wanted to talk to me since the breakup, even the feeling that she would like for us to get back together. I know she wants the best for him and it is so nice to realize that I am considered that best for somebody that meant so much to me.

I have also found out that he has not met anybody else since we broke up, so what he told me last summer was only a lie to hurt me. That makes me feel better also 

She did check with me the second time we talked whether I am dating somebody new and since she never asked me the first time I am sure he must have insisted I am out dating left, right and center, although he would never reveal it bothers him at all, even to her. That's why I think he might in fact have got, a least a little, irritated but she may not want to admit that since I had told her I'd rather she didn't mention I had called for that reason.

Thanks for your suggestion, that sound very reasonable. I will contact her over the weekend and see what she says.

[Narellan]

I've got a different perspective on this. I wouldn't contact the friend again. She's not your friend and not there to support you, if I put myself in your exBPD's shoes, he will be extremely intimidated/ anxious if after a year you start befriending his friend. I'd stay away. Unless you want to create drama for yourself. You are setting up a triangulation here and it's not going to end well.

Who knows if the info she gave you about him not being over you is even correct? He would contact you if he wants to. Stay within your own circle of friends and try to keep moving forward. Leave him to do the same .

[mitti]

Hi Narellan and thanks for your input.

I am at this time not sure what I will do. I don't want to befriend his friend and of course I am not going to stay and that was never my reason for contacting her. However, I did find it interesting that she was so anxious to stay in touch with me. He doesn't own his friends and they are free to do what they want. That being said, I feel certain she is doing this for him and not for me.

Who knows if the info she gave you about him not being over you is even correct?

Why would she lie about this though? I know she really cares about him and lying about something like that would be tremendously counter-productive.

If I contact her it would be for this reason - she told me one thing and he another. She asked me to stay in touch so I feel that I am well within my rights to contact her and ask about this.

[Narellan]

I'm not very trusting of anyone ATM, so sorry if I've annoyed you. It's not my intention.

I just am concerned about you being pulled into a triangulation with the two of them. It's up to you of course what you do. If it was me, I'd steer clear. He may be giving her a different story. They do play the victim very well our ex BPDs. Just be careful. You have done so well detaching and being away for a year out of the drama. Do you really need to go back into it ?

[mitti]

Oh no, you didn't annoy me and I am sorry if that's how my response seemed. I think you have a point about not getting sucked back in. I am curious I guess and plus it did make me feel very good to hear that I left a hole in his life because truly this experience has been the worst part of my life ever and it is nice to know I mattered.  

[Narellan]

Yes I know that feeling. I was fantasising for weeks how much turmoil my ex BPD was in after he ran from me. Meanwhile he'd replaced me with my best friend of 20 yrs and the two of them playing the cheating game behind my back.

Pretty sure he will come knocking at my door again( been recycled 3 times in 4 months) now that it appears to be all over with my friend ( ex friend) I can't wait for that moment when I get to shut the door in his face.

It's sure been the worst pain in my life too.

Take care 

[Dog biscuit]

... . if I put myself in your exBPD's shoes, he will be extremely intimidated/ anxious if after a year you start befriending his friend. I'd stay away.

It must be great to get validation that you did matter to him! It must be healing and comforting to know that you ment something to him as much as he did mean something to you.

Be aware that even thoug it is trough a "mutual friend" and she did invite you to keep in touch, you are still connected to him and drama/hurt may arise from this.

Cherish the validation, be thankfull for it, and stay aware for possible drama that may come from getting "çlose' to him again. Good luck!  

[mitti]

It's sure been the worst pain in my life too.

Take care 

I am so sorry to hear what you have been through, that is the worst because the betrayal is double. I hope you have a sense of closure and you have obviously not lost anything, in neither of them.   

[mitti]

... . if I put myself in your exBPD's shoes, he will be extremely intimidated/ anxious if after a year you start befriending his friend. I'd stay away.

It must be great to get validation that you did matter to him! It must be healing and comforting to know that you ment something to him as much as he did mean something to you.

Be aware that even thoug it is trough a "mutual friend" and she did invite you to keep in touch, you are still connected to him and drama/hurt may arise from this.

Cherish the validation, be thankfull for it, and stay aware for possible drama that may come from getting "çlose' to him again. Good luck!  

Hi Dog biscuit! Thank you so much for the support.

Yes, the validation of this feels wonderful, like a kind of triumph.

Yes, I can see that my ex would be intimidated by this, and I understand that. What surprises me is that she was so forthcoming and friendly and I am curious to know why.

[mitti]

An update: First I contacted the friend over Whatsapp but she hasn't seen the message and I find this a little confusing and don't know what to do now... .

But the other thing is that I recently found out that my x has been trying to befriend one of my friends. My friend didn't know he is my x and we haven't really talked properly for a while and I never mentioned my r/s problems to anybody apart from my closest friends because of the shame, but when I talked to my friend at a party the other day I ended up telling him some about our r/s and when I showed him a picture of my x he said he knew him. My x has been wanting to get into "working" with my friend on a project because my x is wanting to learn this skill for free. My friend doesn't know my x but my x knows he is my friend and that we used to do the same thing he is now wanting to do. (Sorry about being cryptic but I don't want anybody that knows us to get this). Anyway, the whole project has fallen through for some other reasons, but it left me feeling numb and like what the heck... .

It was one thing when he engaged in a smear campaign against me among his own friends, but now. I know that I don't know that he has said anything to anybody about me and he clearly hasn't mentioned me to my friend but considering he is "forbidding" me to talk to his friends, and they are people we have both visited and stayed with, so I know them, but now he is trying to take over some of my life, befriending my friends, moving into my domain, while at the same refusing to acknowledge my existence.

[Narellan]

My exBPD has been doing a few similar things. He has contacted a few of my friends and FB friended them. He just met them a couple of weeks before we split. Then last week he contacted my sister out of the blue and started abusing her for not being a good sister to me... . what the heck ... . He hasnt spoken to me for 3 months. Last weekend he came to my door. I wasn't home and my son told him that. No message, he just left. But nothing since! I'm on eggshells. Can't predict his next move but I hope to god he doesn't try to speak to my parents. I told my sister to ignore him which she is.

Very bizarre behaviour, but that's BPD for you. I think my ex is scared I'm going to reject him hence no phone calls, he prob thinks face to face ill cave and talk to him. I think he misses me and wants to stay connected on some level. He told me once I am in his life forever now.

Maybe your ex is thinking along similar lines? Subtle little things so you'll hear about him and then think of him, but he doesn't have the courage to face you?

[patientandclear]

The specifics vary and prompt much wondering and speculating about what it means ... . but the general pattern that you are both relating, Mitti and Narellan, is so common.  They don't want to be gone-gone-gone.  When they get the feeling they might be, because you don't appear to be carrying the water of trying to keep the connection alive anymore, they make circuitous efforts to be near, while protecting themselves from rejection.  However ... . this is very different from being able to be and remain present in your life on terms that are at all functional.

Jonie's thread about her current experience of her ex being somewhat back in contact but with extreme gaps and intense triggers is a good illustration of the limits of this dynamic.  They don't want to be gone but they don't know how to stay.

[mitti]

Very bizarre behaviour, but that's BPD for you. I think my ex is scared I'm going to reject him hence no phone calls, he prob thinks face to face ill cave and talk to him. I think he misses me and wants to stay connected on some level. He told me once I am in his life forever now.

Maybe your ex is thinking along similar lines? Subtle little things so you'll hear about him and then think of him, but he doesn't have the courage to face you?

They don't want to be gone-gone-gone.  When they get the feeling they might be, because you don't appear to be carrying the water of trying to keep the connection alive anymore, they make circuitous efforts to be near, while protecting themselves from rejection. [... . ]  They don't want to be gone but they don't know how to stay.

Hi Narellan and P & C,

I guess this is the paradox of BPD that they can figure out, how to be close without feeling overwhelmed by the intimacy. It does make sense hearing it from somebody else but when you are in the middle of it, it seems too bizarre. I know that my x has never felt the same for somebody else as he has for me so that might be both why he is wanting to somehow keep me in his life but also why he is so angry with me for accepting the breakup this time. He has neither ever gone back with anybody else before, nor remained angry with anybody for this long before.

[Narellan]

Quote " They don't want to be gone but they don't know how to stay."

That just about broke my heart again reading that. I hate this disorder.

I've just picked up a copy of " the Buddha and the borderline" it looks like a good insightful read from just doing a skim through.