Pending Divorce: Traveling out-of-state

[AlonelyOne]

I've seen lots of things state online that traveling out of state is often illegal during a pending divorce unless specified in a custody agreement, or notification has been given and approval received (signed document) from spouse.

True or Not?

[ForeverDad]

Does the temporary order allow holidays and vacations?  If so then follow the court's policy on sending her advance vacation notices.  Use a method that proves you timely informed her.  (Did you see I didn't say "requests"?  It's a vacation notice!)  However, there may be limits to travel in the order.  So this may be a lawyer question.

My divorce was pending for nearly two years.  Obviously it was unreasonable to say the 'temporary' order wouldn't let me take a vacation with my son for two years.  Yet my ex said 'No!' to my advance notice, my lawyer said "have a good time" and that he'd handle any fallout.  And yes there was fallout!  My vacation started on my weekend and I went to the Rocky Mountains for 2 weeks.  After I didn't return him to her the next Monday, she went and tried to get the local sheriff's office to declare an Amber Alert.   Fortunately they told her it didn't meet the criteria.  So she filed a grievance complaint against their investigator which of course got them very peeved with her.  Nothing came of if, but not for lack of trying.  So whatever you do, make sure you're doing every little detail correctly, the advance notice, the timing, checking on any distance limits, etc.  Believe me, the courts don't care whether something is fair or not, they look more at the technicalities.  That's another story for another day.

[livednlearned]

This came up in my case.

My ex tried to say that I "abducted" and "kidnapped" my son when I took him out of state. We had a parenting coordinator at that point, and I asked her if I could go. She said yes, I could take him as long as it was on my time, and didn't encroach on ex's time.

If you want to prevent your ex from going out of state with the kids, you might have to convince the court that she is a flight risk.

Once there is an active custody case, she can't go too far, I believe. It might be different state by state, but from what I understand, wherever you filed, that's the court where stuff stays. If she split with the kids, and there's a custody file, then law enforcement in the other state could be enlisted to get the kids back.

Anyway, the point is that it isn't a straightforward yes or no. 

[AlonelyOne]

We don't have any temporary agreements at this point. Not really concerned about flight risk.

Just didn't want to find myself in hot water if I took the kids out-of-state during my time. Be it to visit museums or relatives.

[ForeverDad]

Have the divorce papers been served and filed?  Is there an initial court hearing set?  Have you had the initial court hearing and have an order?  Does the order state anything about holiday and vacation scheduling?  A lot depends where you are in the legal process.

If there are no orders then your lawyer could probably confirm that you have equal but legally unspecified rights as parent.  So ask your lawyer for local legal advice!  She could possibly contest you going on vacation or a trip, which mine did as I wrote above, but I doubt any professional would do anything about it, especially if you (1) notify her in advance in writing, listing a brief general itinerary such as city/state destination, contact information while gone and listing your lawyer as an additional contact and (2) provide a copy with the local police just in case.

How far in advance?  If there are no orders stating local defaults, then something reasonable, I'd say 30 days in advance would be more than enough to avoid any legal censure or consequences until you get more specific guidelines in a court order.  (If something unscheduled comes up then that could be an exception and shorter advance notification might be okay.)  Most courts have default holiday schedules alternating holidays between the parents.  Many also list a "first come, first served" deadline for vacation notices: spring break (for example mine is Feb 15), summer (May 1) and winter break (Nov 15).  Vacations are expected to be either 1 or 2 weeks in length, my court sets a total limit of no more than 3 weeks per year.  My court's default guideline does not specify a limit to the distance, generally if there is a need for a limit then that would be included as a condition to court orders.

Remember, technically it is a Notice, not a Request.  Do not make it easy for an obstructive or oppositional parent to respond with a No!

And remember that whatever rights you want for holidays and vacations is reciprocal, she would have the similar rights unless reason for it to be limited by the court.

[Waddams]

when one files a family court petition where i am, part of the filing ends up being a standing order from the court prohibiting taking the kids out of the court's jurisdiction without permission of the other parent.  there's no temp. orders/vacation schedules/etc. ordered, just something that basically prevents kidnapping the kids.

that said, i've done it on mulitple occasions where uPDxw and I both just notify the other we're going out of town, specify dates, where we're staying, contact info., etc.  Well, I provide all that.  I get vague blathering messages from her.  but she's always brought the kid back, and he's always ended up having a good trip, so i tend to not worry about it when out of state trips happen while we have litigation pending.  we've even had a few times where both of us have extended a trip by a few days.  i just send a notice and move on.

i figure with both of us having out of state family and nobody close by that the court won't care as long as nobody tries to abscond with our son.

[AlonelyOne]

Have the divorce papers been served and filed?  Is there an initial court hearing set?  Have you had the initial court hearing and have an order?  Does the order state anything about holiday and vacation scheduling?  A lot depends where you are in the legal process.

No, that's just starting... .

Did receive a child support notice. But haven't been served divorce papers (as of yet).

[ForeverDad]

My story, we separated and had assorted protection orders against each other for a few months.  As the last of them was about to be dismissed, I concluded she was not wanting to reconcile, so I started to prepare divorce papers.  She filed for child support (juvenile court) one day before I filed for divorce (domestic relations court next door).  The paperwork crossed in the mail.  When I appeared for the CS case which came first, I informed the judge abut the pending divorce and CS was merged into the divorce case.

So she wants CS but is dragging her feet about divorce?  If either one of you files for divorce then the CS case would probably be folded into the divorce case.  Unless you are expecting to reconcile with her as she is now (you can't force her into therapy) then why not be proactive and file for divorce yourself?

Edit:  Oh, do you mean that the divorce case sent the notice about a CS hearing?  I guess that would be for the initial or temporary order?  Usually that includes parenting schedules, one parent assigned as temporary custodial parent, etc.  (Be forewarned that 'temporary' could easily turn out to be a year or two.)

[AlonelyOne]

I received support papers. At the time I thought those were divorce papers. However, my lawyer informed me otherwise.  And we were going to begin the process to file.

So basically, we only have our verbal agreements. And well, you know how BPD are. They feel they meet the agreement. That you aren't.  Then if you fail or decide one aspect is not presently workable. They deem all  agreements void.  And suddenly, somehow all "right" to decision making is theirs exclusively.

FUN!

<exhausting>

[ForeverDad]

Are you going into the CS hearing asking to be equal time parent?  I think you mentioned once that you live some distance away from the mother?  So how much time do you get with your children?  How much do you want?

If parenting time is disputed, then how will the court determine the proper support amount?  Likely the court will rely upon the current parenting arrangement to determine who is the majority time parent and that's the one to receive CS.

[AlonelyOne]

Not too far, about 20 minutes away.

Currently, we've been on an every other week schedule, with some agreed upon fluidity.

[ForeverDad]

Every other week is reasonable.  Don't let her chip away at it while in the hearing.

In my area being equal time parent or minority time parent didn't make much difference in the ordered amount.  I paid almost as much with equal time as I did with minority time.  What made me pay so much was our income disparity.  My ex was always defaulted to imputed income since she would never provided her financial records.

[AlonelyOne]

My ex was always defaulted to imputed income since she would never provided her financial records.

I'd be content with her being imputed at 40 hrs at her hourly wage.