abandonment fears & sexual closeness needs

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

How long should I not "sleep" with him?  I don't even try to touch him in any way because I don't want to send the wrong signals.

The "fear of abandonment" is my husbands big trigger.  I can't fill him up so in effect I am making him feel abandoned.  He blames me.  He says he feels unloved so he wrote me this long note about how he only wants me to touch him and hold him and how sex makes him feel "close". Yeh, in any normal relationship this kind of behavior is normal.

For years we have fought this BPD and didn't know what it was.  He says I have never spent time with him and hold him at arms length.  Probably because I feel claustrophobic when he wants to be "close".  He acts like he is 9 years old.  I love to hold his hand and be close but constantly touching and being touchy feely isn't me. 

His self injury is sex and alcohol.  Sex is just recreational to him and the more the better. He never has sex with anyone else because that is one of my unspoken boundaries.  I have wished he would cross it so I could have a reason to move him out.

[debyt]

How long should I not "sleep" with him?  I don't even try to touch him in any way because I don't want to send the wrong signals.

The "fear of abandonment" is my husbands big trigger.  I can't fill him up so in effect I am making him feel abandoned.  He blames me.  He says he feels unloved so he wrote me this long note about how he only wants me to touch him and hold him and how sex makes him feel "close". Yeh, in any normal relationship this kind of behavior is normal.

For years we have fought this BPD and didn't know what it was.  He says I have never spent time with him and hold him at arms length.  Probably because I feel claustrophobic when he wants to be "close".  He acts like he is 9 years old.  I love to hold his hand and be close but constantly touching and being touchy feely isn't me. 

His self injury is sex and alcohol.  Sex is just recreational to him and the more the better. He never has sex with anyone else because that is one of my unspoken boundaries.  I have wished he would cross it so I could have a reason to move him out.

[workinprogress]

How long should I not "sleep" with him?  I don't even try to touch him in any way because I don't want to send the wrong signals.

The "fear of abandonment" is my husbands big trigger.  I can't fill him up so in effect I am making him feel abandoned.  He blames me.  He says he feels unloved so he wrote me this long note about how he only wants me to touch him and hold him and how sex makes him feel "close". Yeh, in any normal relationship this kind of behavior is normal.

For years we have fought this BPD and didn't know what it was.  He says I have never spent time with him and hold him at arms length.  Probably because I feel claustrophobic when he wants to be "close".  He acts like he is 9 years old.  I love to hold his hand and be close but constantly touching and being touchy feely isn't me. 

His self injury is sex and alcohol.  Sex is just recreational to him and the more the better. He never has sex with anyone else because that is one of my unspoken boundaries.  I have wished he would cross it so I could have a reason to move him out.

With all due respect, should you really not "sleep" with your husband?

Have you discussed how he makes you feel about sex?

I'm sure going without sex only aggravates his condition.

[MissyM]

For years we have fought this BPD and didn't know what it was.  He says I have never spent time with him and hold him at arms length.  Probably because I feel claustrophobic when he wants to be "close".  He acts like he is 9 years old.  I love to hold his hand and be close but constantly touching and being touchy feely isn't me. 

His self injury is sex and alcohol.  Sex is just recreational to him and the more the better.

I kind of understand what you mean.  It sounds like there is no intimacy.  It was a very hard concept for my dBPDh to grasp but the lack of emotional intimacy made sex impossible, it affected him because he had severe ED issues.  He is in recovery now and it wasn't until he started doing work on himself, that he was able to be intimate and sex to be enjoyable.  I used to tell him all the time that I didn't want to have sex with a child. He no longer approaches sex in that way.  It has taken a lot of work on his part and me being very clear about what I needed and my boundaries, for this to change.

[HopefulDad]

How long should I not "sleep" with him?  I don't even try to touch him in any way because I don't want to send the wrong signals.

The "fear of abandonment" is my husbands big trigger.  I can't fill him up so in effect I am making him feel abandoned.  He blames me.  He says he feels unloved so he wrote me this long note about how he only wants me to touch him and hold him and how sex makes him feel "close". Yeh, in any normal relationship this kind of behavior is normal.

For years we have fought this BPD and didn't know what it was.  He says I have never spent time with him and hold him at arms length.  Probably because I feel claustrophobic when he wants to be "close".  He acts like he is 9 years old.  I love to hold his hand and be close but constantly touching and being touchy feely isn't me. 

His self injury is sex and alcohol.  Sex is just recreational to him and the more the better. He never has sex with anyone else because that is one of my unspoken boundaries.  I have wished he would cross it so I could have a reason to move him out.

Maybe I'm missing something regarding the bolded.  Are you separated?  Have you told him you don't want sex?  What wrong signals are you afraid of sending?

Sex is important in a marriage so if you have different views with your husband on this, they need to be communicated openly.  And that has nothing to do with BPD.  If you don't want sex with him, be clear with him and due to its importance, you do owe him an explanation.  How detailed that explanation is is up to you, but you cannot just tell him no and that's it.  And you have to be willing to take the consequences (e.g. he chooses to leave, which is unlikely given his fear of abandonment, but there nonetheless).

If you do not want sex with him, by all means don't have sex with him.  That's not fair to you, either.  Just let him know.

FWIW, when I initiated a trial separation from my BPDw, I made it clear from the get go that sex was off the table.  I also made it clear that I understood her needs and if she needed sex outside of our relationship, then let's proceed with a divorce so she can get her needs met.  And of course I would do the same should I want those needs met.  I think ambiguity in this area is asking for problems.

[debyt]

Having sex with him sends the signal that everything is fixed and it's off the BPD races again.  We fight, he gets forgiveness, he gets sexually gratified (make up sex), and then we are fine for a few days. Then We fight, he gets forgiveness, he gets sexually gratified (make up sex), and then we are fine for a few days. ROUND AND ROUND WE GO.

Not having sex makes him think I have not forgiven him and that I am holding a grudge.  I am just sick of the cyclical emotions.

[HopefulDad]

Having sex with him sends the signal that everything is fixed and it's off the BPD races again.  We fight, he gets forgiveness, he gets sexually gratified (make up sex), and then we are fine for a few days. Then We fight, he gets forgiveness, he gets sexually gratified (make up sex), and then we are fine for a few days. ROUND AND ROUND WE GO.

Not having sex makes him think I have not forgiven him and that I am holding a grudge.  I am just sick of the cyclical emotions.

I get that.  I suggest making sure he gets that by telling him you're tired of the cycle.  Of course he'll ask you "what cycle?" at which point be ready for a difficult conversation.

Sex is an area where being as direct as possible is best.  Just withholding it without openly communicating why would be very passive aggressive in a healthy relationship.

[freedom33]

Having sex with him sends the signal that everything is fixed and it's off the BPD races again.  We fight, he gets forgiveness, he gets sexually gratified (make up sex), and then we are fine for a few days. Then We fight, he gets forgiveness, he gets sexually gratified (make up sex), and then we are fine for a few days. ROUND AND ROUND WE GO.

Not having sex makes him think I have not forgiven him and that I am holding a grudge.  I am just sick of the cyclical emotions.

IMO the way you are managing the situation is not respectful to either of you and is displaying controlling elements. Also reading that you are wishing that he cheated on you so you can leave is really disturbing. To be frank I would also have abandonment fears if I intuited that my partner thought this way about the relationship. Good luck with it. Sounds like there's work to do.

[debyt]

We had good dialog re: no sex. I thought we had come to a breakthrough and the next thing I knew he had put on some pretty music and locked the door to the bedroom.  My mind said "here we go again... .".  I tried to explain again that I needed time to process and heal and that being close in that way was not helping me heal it was making me mad.  Mad that he just wasn't getting it.  So we cried and talked more, held each other and went to sleep.

This morning he tells me that he is left with rejection that he isn't good enough to make love to his wife and no one should want to be around him because he is so repulsive.  GOOD GREIF!  I guess I am supposed to just roll up my feelings and kick them out the door like a worn out carpet.  He has hurt me with his anger, his sarcastic comments, his pouting, his 14 yr old behavior.  I am so deeply pained that I don't want to be THAT close.  I have to have time to WANT to be that close.  Just saying "I was wrong to have hurt you... ." when he has said all of this before over the past 16 years.  I want to believe he is telling me the truth.  I know he feels remorse.  I just know he won't keep the positive in his forefront mind.

I tried to give him good things to think about him: your smart, your handsome, your wonderful and darn it people like you! But until he wants to believe those things and until he refuses to keep letting those demons invade his thoughts nothing will change.  We will go round and round on the merry-go-round.

I want to help his positive show through his negative.  He is a hard case and just getting him to admit that there is something wrong is HUGE!  His whole family has mental conditions from the top two mental groups.  I am in the third: workaholic, perfectionist, fixer, occasional depression and slight codependent (growing out of this one).  I am working on these.  I want US to work on these.

I am not good with validation and am working on it.  I am more of an encourager and I want to be that to him but you can't make a horse drink the water unless he is thirsty... .HOW do I get him to accept the encouragement and strive to believe the positive?

[HopefulDad]

We had good dialog re: no sex. I thought we had come to a breakthrough and the next thing I knew he had put on some pretty music and locked the door to the bedroom.  My mind said "here we go again... .".  I tried to explain again that I needed time to process and heal and that being close in that way was not helping me heal it was making me mad.  Mad that he just wasn't getting it.  So we cried and talked more, held each other and went to sleep.

This morning he tells me that he is left with rejection that he isn't good enough to make love to his wife and no one should want to be around him because he is so repulsive.  GOOD GREIF!  I guess I am supposed to just roll up my feelings and kick them out the door like a worn out carpet.  He has hurt me with his anger, his sarcastic comments, his pouting, his 14 yr old behavior.  I am so deeply pained that I don't want to be THAT close.  I have to have time to WANT to be that close.  Just saying "I was wrong to have hurt you... ." when he has said all of this before over the past 16 years.  I want to believe he is telling me the truth.  I know he feels remorse.  I just know he won't keep the positive in his forefront mind.

I tried to give him good things to think about him: your smart, your handsome, your wonderful and darn it people like you! But until he wants to believe those things and until he refuses to keep letting those demons invade his thoughts nothing will change.  We will go round and round on the merry-go-round.

I want to help his positive show through his negative.  He is a hard case and just getting him to admit that there is something wrong is HUGE!  His whole family has mental conditions from the top two mental groups.  I am in the third: workaholic, perfectionist, fixer, occasional depression and slight codependent (growing out of this one).  I am working on these.  I want US to work on these.

I am not good with validation and am working on it.  I am more of an encourager and I want to be that to him but you can't make a horse drink the water unless he is thirsty... .HOW do I get him to accept the encouragement and strive to believe the positive?

You did the right thing in discussing your lack of wanting sex with him.  That's a difficult conversation to have as you found out by his response.  That takes strength to initiate such talk.

As for the merry go round, there are a bunch of us all on the same ride so you are not alone.  Your questions are ones most of us would like answers for ourselves.  Ultimately, any change on his part has to come from within so until someone comes up with a surefire way to "get him to accept the encouragement", its best to focus on things you do have control over: you.  I know it's not easy because we want to help our loved ones so much.

[nightmoves]

I'm a bit confused.

Your bio says you are "Leaving"... .is that your status?

In my opinion you are waiting for your spouse to change. Is that accurate?

[vortex of confusion]

Having sex with him sends the signal that everything is fixed and it's off the BPD races again.  We fight, he gets forgiveness, he gets sexually gratified (make up sex), and then we are fine for a few days. Then We fight, he gets forgiveness, he gets sexually gratified (make up sex), and then we are fine for a few days. ROUND AND ROUND WE GO.

Not having sex makes him think I have not forgiven him and that I am holding a grudge.  I am just sick of the cyclical emotions.

My husband is a sex addict and I am very familiar with what you are talking about here. It is so difficult for me because on one hand, I don't want to withhold sex because that isn't healthy for a relationship. However, giving him sex isn't healthy for me because it inevitably leaves me feeling dirty and used. If I give him sex, then he thinks that everything is okay and he stops working on things or he will get lax with his recovery. If I don't give him sex, then he turns into a big jerk. Sure, going without makes normal people a little tense at times. His tenseness goes beyond just normal sexual frustration. He will snap at me and the kids and get very fatalistic about everything. The crappier he gets, the less I want to be close to him. I feel like I am in a no win situation because all sex with him feels like it is pressured. For years, I felt like I didn't have a choice but to have sex with him and then when I would things wouldn't work on his side so it became this crazy push/pull where I had to initiate it because he was afraid of rejection but then when I would initiate things wouldn't work for him. It has been crazy for me because it feels like a no win situation no matter what I do.

[debyt]

nightmoves,

Yes, I am leaving.  I have decided. I just have to plan.  I feel like I am a loser for leaving but I also know I will receive the blame no matter what.  I am saving money for a lawyer and already know that the "other side of goodbye" looks like.  It will be ugly and I am not sound enough yet to deal with it. I will loose myself in my business at the beginning of the  year and by the end of tax season when my life slows I will have everything in place along with my strength of mind to divorce.  My kids know what is going on but not all the details.  He wants out as much as I do because he doesn't want to work on it.  High functioning BPD may be the worst because it boarders on narcissism.  He actually is NPD, BPD, and generally FUpd... .  I am almost out of codependent and the T says I am stronger than I think I am.  I need to be with my kids and he needs to be by himself.  As Reba McIntire say "somebody should leave, but which one will it be? You need the kids an they need me."  I have to be the adult for them and for me.  I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me... .