Feeling discouraged-need a boost

[lever.]

I haven't started a post for a while so this is really a brief update.

DD with BPD has returned to live locally after 2 years of living away and this should feel great. She is doing well-no major rages, coping with the children etc. However despite all my efforts at "wise mind", not taking things personally etc every time I see her I leave feeling upset.

Her coldness towards me is palpable. Yesterday I went with her to collect the children from school. My grandson same out looking upset and almost crying. I said "What's the matter, sweetheart" she snarled at me" Stop interfering this minute or go home"-I ignored it, not wanting to upset the little boy further.

I tried to make conversation and told her that we had had someone round to quote for a new shower and bathroom-reply "Why exactly are you telling me this-why do you think I would be interested."


She then says that when the schools are on holiday for a week she has decided which children I will take on which days so that she gets to spend individual time with each child. Because this would be nice for the kids and I want to see them I just go along with it but feel used.

I can't exactly explain it but she looks at me like I'm rubbish and everything is on her terms.

She has recently said to someone that she and I can't stand each other-despite my efforts at validation etc.

I know given what some people are experiencing with suicide attempts and arrests (been there in the past) I should consider myself fortunate and be glad my DD is coping but this is getting me down. There is absolutely no re-inforcement of my efforts to build a better relationship.

I also know I am allowing this and boundaries come into it-but I want to keep contact with my GCn

I coped this time by playing with grandchildren in their bedrooms and acting as if I hadn't noticed-saying good-bye pleasantly.

Just wanted to vent really-it gets a bit depressing-will try to do something nice and not see her for a few days.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[tristesse]

Hi Lever,

I'm sorry that you are feeling so down.

I have experienced this type of behavior with my own DD, and I know how horribly difficult it is to cope when the GCn are involved. My own little GS 5 has been known to mimick my DD and say hurtful things. I used to just allow this to happen and say nothing, now I respond. I say something like, that wasn't a very nice thing to say to me, it makes me sad when you talk like that, and I don't say things like to you do I? he always says no and apologizes. It is happening less and less often now, and he reprimands his mother for being unkind when he hears her. Just the other day he told her she was acting like a little kid. LOL and bless his little heart.

My point is that you do not have to allow children to dis-respect you. your DD knows that they are being inappropriate when they speak to you like that, but she is also sick, so to her, if you don't stop it why should she. My DD was upset when I first started responding, she did say things like, don't tell him what to do, but I did it anyway. I would just ignore her and continue to gently guide him.

I'm telling you to follow my lead, You are the one who knows your situation best, and you are the one that is going to know your DD'S limitations. I'm just lending support and understanding, from somebody who has been there and done that. I get it, and I feel your heartache. Here's hoping for brighter day.

Hugs to you

[tristesse]

I'm sorry, that was supposed to say, I'm NOT telling you to follow my lead.

[lever.]

Reading back over my post it sounds a bit whiny. I know it is my job to be there for my DD and it isn't about me but its difficult never to get anything back at all (except criticism). Just to clarify its my DD who is making these sharp remarks to me-not the GCn

She quite often tells them off fairly severely for something minor and then watches me like a hawk in case I "undermine" her by the slightest supportive glance.

It feels like she does it as an exercise of power because she knows I am in a position where I can't say a word. The kids just look at me with big eyes.

I'm guessing it happens mostly when I'm around-as she does a lot of activities with them and is often very good with them.

The thing that is really getting me down is that I feel as if I have worked hard on re-building our relationship but there isn't really a relationship at all. She has a strong dislike of me and it no longer seems ever to swing the other way.

Having been through all the teenage traumas etc that others here have experienced, fought for her, spent lots of time and money-it feels like a bitter pill to swallow.

I know I'm being a bit selfish and expecting a real reciprocal relationship is fruitless!

[jellibeans]

lever

That is really hard when your dd mistreats you in that way. I am sorry she seems to be blind to her behavior. So you think there is a way to express your hurt at her comments?



I tried to make conversation and told her that we had had someone round to quote for a new shower and bathroom-reply "Why exactly are you telling me this-why do you think I would be interested."

maybe a response like... .I wanted you just share what is going on in my life in hopes that could bring us closer ... .or maybe... .I am sorry my mistake. I thought you would be interested in the project and I was hoping you could give me some input on colors etc... .

I think when you have expectations of how the conversation is going to go or even how the relationship is going to go you set yourself up for failure. I think sometimes there is nothing you can say or do to make the pwBPD happy... .sometimes you just have to accept that but you should never have to accept unkind words and I might try and voice that to her in a non confrontational way... .if that is possible.

[pessim-optimist]

I have read your post lever, and I think that your concerns are definitely valid.

Your dd is rude to you, and in your own words:

I just go along with it but feel used.

... .she looks at me like I'm rubbish and everything is on her terms.

That's not ok... .I have no immediate answers or solutions for you, but want you to know that your feelings are on target.

I have a question - why is it that everything is on her terms? What's the reason behind this?

Also, when I read this:

She then says ... .she has decided which children I will take on which days so that she gets to spend individual time with each child.

Wow. Has she asked you prior to this conversation, whether you would be available? And have you confirmed that you would?

If so, then it is her choice of children, but if not... .She doesn't have the power or right to decide what you are going to be doing on which day... .

I coped this time by playing with grandchildren in their bedrooms and acting as if I hadn't noticed-saying good-bye pleasantly.

I have done this many times, because I didn't want to cause a fight or didn't know how to handle that properly, and sometimes there is nothing you can do or say, but sometimes it is a clear signal to the pwBPD that their behavior will be tolerated and they can do it again with impunity. (And by not dealing with it there and then, we are setting ourselves up for more problems in the future)

I also know I am allowing this and boundaries come into it-but I want to keep contact with my GCn

I am not sure what you meant by this - can you that explain a bit more?

[js friend]

She then says that when the schools are on holiday for a week she has decided which children I will take on which days so that she gets to spend individual time with each child. Because this would be nice for the kids and I want to see them I just go along with it but feel used.

Pessi you seem suprised by this, but i can tell you that my dd19 does this exact same thing with her 2 children. She will often split them up wanting to bring one 'over so she can spend time with the other one, and just assumes that we will be available to babysit her children. I can tell you now that it has really caused a few meltdowns on dds side if there is no-one avialable. My belief is that she really does this because she cannot cope with looking after the both of them togther as they are very close in age.

Lever~ I agree your dd probably spoke like that because it is about  having power and  total control when it comes to her children. I have found that when it comes to my own dd and her children, she (dd) experiences a lot of jealously especially when the children relate well to others. I think she genuinely feels left out and rejected, so my guess is that your dd probably felt the same when your gc was ready to share with you why he was so upset.My dd constanly reminds us that her children are hers, and she needs to make all the decisions and need to be consulted about everything... .even when they are not with her!)... .yet iam pretty sure dd wouldnt still have them without our help.

It is hard to get rubuked like that without feeling a little emotional which i totally understand.Nothing can prepare us for what comes out of their mouths sometimes. Your dd was rude and needs reminding that you will not tolerate being spoken to like that. I have walked away from my dd when she has behaved like that in the past. It always amazes me how they think its ok. No wonder you feel like rubbish... .yet you are goodneough when it comes to looking after her children to give her a little freedom... .yeh everything on their own terms... .

You will be walking on eggshells again Lever if you dont think you can safely express your boundries without the risk of your dd preventing you from seeing your GC.Children pick up on so much so quickly that you dont want then to think it is normal behaviour for their mother to speak to their Gm in this way. Put your foot dwon and dont let her walk all over you for the sake of keeping the peace.

[lever.]

Thank-you everyone for your replies-a lot to think about there.

For those who don't know, the background is that my daughter didn't speak to me for 4 months and withdrew contact with my GCn.

This was because of an argument with her sister where she felt I didn't support her.

I had to work very hard to re-establish contact-using help on here and from Valerie Porr's book.

I think that she is trying to show me that although she is permitting me to see my GCn she has not forgiven me and if I'm not very careful I will be deprived of contact again.

It is true that she wants to control everything around her children-if she dislikes a small thing at school she expresses extreme anger and talks about home education.

I know parents want to monitor what their children eat and what is said to them-but she takes this to an extreme level.

If I confront any of this she is very likely to stop me seeing the children-so I tend to ignore it-but you are correct-I am giving the impression that its okay.

Regarding looking after the children she acts as if she is doing me a favour-and in a way she is, but its a case of taking whichever child she decides on the day she decides eg I might prefer to do something with a seven year old but I take a two year old or nothing.

It just doesn't feel as if I get any say.

In my daughter's mind I am a bad mother who is responsible for all her difficulties, therefore I should be crawling over hot coals to make it up to her.

Its bothering me less today because I have had a break-thanks for your thoughts.

[pessim-optimist]

Pessi you seem suprised by this, but i can tell you that my dd19 does this exact same thing with her 2 children.

It was a bit of a tongue in cheek surprise: You are absolutely right. We have experienced very similar situations with my SD when her children were little... .

However - even though it is normal behavior for a lot of our pwBPD, how odd would it be in terms of healthy relationships? If we look at it in a different light, it comes down to what you point out so well: our fear of losing contact and our boundaries that are trampled as a result.

Lever - good for you taking a bit of a break. When you look at your situation, you have done so much so well! This is more of a 'fine-tuning' of the relationship. The goal is healthy boundaries for you, so you feel comfortable in this r/s (we all work toward that goal little by little). You know your dd the best... .

[nzmum]

In my daughter's mind I am a bad mother who is responsible for all her difficulties, therefore I should be crawling over hot coals to make it up to her.

Lever - please read the first 4 words over and over... .they are what I call 'the operative words of the sentence'.

You so have the right to vent. 

You so have the duty to be 'selfish' and care for yourself. 

You so deserved the break today. 

You so have the right to feel better today   

[SeaSprite]

 

No you are not being whiny.

I see two ways to look at it, with no right answer.

1. You take whatever she needs to dish out as the price of admission to keeping the grandchildren in your life, and do whatever self-care you need to do so that you can not take her personally.

2. You gently call her on her comments "I don't think I deserved that" or ":)id you mean for that to be hurtful?" or "Ouch" or whatever is appropriate and then leave it in her hands to decide whether she can deal with you as a fellow human with feelings that matter.

Sometimes when I'm dealing with problems with no right answer, I ask myself, "Which direction would I rather fail?" 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lever.]

Thanks everyone. Its good to share on here even if it isn't about a major drama as you all "get it" in a way that friends who aren't familiar with BPD can't.

Sea-sprite -that is helpful advice-I want to keep contact with GCn partly for me and partly for them-so I can soften the effects of DD's emotional volatility. She is a good Mum but she can go off like a rocket in an unpredictable way and she's less likely to do that if she's less stressed. So I guess it is mainly option 1 with a little bit of option 2 if she goes too far!

The secret is the self care and working on wise mind. Coming on here is part of that so thank-you.

To hear the validation and have the encouragement to take a break etc helps.

I don't get a lot of that in real life. I don't want to discuss it with DH and certainly not DD2 as it just alienates them from her even more.