Discipline

[lm1109]

Hi! I don't know if anyone will have any insight or input on this topic, but I'm finding myself having an extremely hard time. The issue is disciplining my kids. I have 3 boys... ages 5, 2, and 1. I have realized that as my 5 year old gets older and my 2 year old has entered into the "terrible twos" hardcore that discipline is something I have to do. My issue is, that I have SUCH a HARD time doing it! I also feel like I was never given the tools to do it the right way. I've read books, talked to other parents, etc. But in the heat of the moment things never turn out how they are written a book, obviously. I feel like I was screamed at and raged at SO much as a kid, so I do my best to avoid fighting with my kids. It sounds simple: "Ill grow up and have kids and NEVER do or say ANY of things my mother did to me, and we will be happy!" But have any of you tried reasoning with a 5 or especially a 2 year old? Impossible! I don't spank, I do time-outs. Lately though I have been losing my cool, I have never been good at stress management, but have always been good at understanding my kids limits and having realistic expectations for my kids ages. But lately I find myself screaming and carrying on because I am just SOO stressed out! Then I beat myself up horribly for screaming, because I hear my Mom when I scream! I get disgusted with myself, literally! I also know I'm becoming exactly what I never wanted to be as a parent, scary and unpredictable! I'm this great fun easy going mom until I reach my stress limit! I know none of this is their fault, their job as kids is to be kids and figure things out, test the limits. I am supposed to be there to gently guide them in the right direction... be firm but loving while disciplining them. I desperately want to do that! And each time I yell and scream like a crazy person I swear to myself that I wont next time, and then here we are again! I know I am overstressed and that should be an easy fix but, I have VERY little contact with my parents so they are NO help. I have NO other relatives(no aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.) because my mom banned them ALL from our lives when I was a kid, so that I essentially had NO one but her! I am 45 mins away from my close friends from where I grew up. All of my husbands family is an hour away! I feel very isolated and feel like I cant even get out to meet any new friends because its so hard to take them out by myself. So I feel like I need to get to a point in my life that I can HANDLE the stress! Does anyone have any advice or experience with this?

[jmanvo2015]

I'm sorry your having such a difficult time with your kids.  I can relate to everything you say, especially being disenfranchised from other family members because of your BPD mom.  Mine did that, too, including cutting my biological father out of my life when I was 10.  (however, we reconnected and reconciled in 2010 and have had a relationship since).

You're right that you didn't get good lessons on how to be a good parent if you had a BPD mother.  I have never had children because of this and, for me, this was the right decision.  However, you have them and you love them and I'm sure you're doing your best.  But you're also right that you don't want to repeat for your children the trauma and pain that your BPD mom caused for you.

Stress is exactly the issue.  BPDs act the way they act because they have poor or no stress management skills.  So, I think, for your situation this is the key to a way out.  :)BT is an incredibly effective tool for learning better stress management tools, particularly with the concept and practice of mindfulness.  May I suggest you borrow from your local library the book, "Full Catastrophe Living" by Jon Kabat-Zinn and begin to learn about his Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction program, which includes daily meditations and incorporating mindfulness into all of your interactions.  Am I making it sound easy?  It's not, of course.  It requires learning a new way of managing stress and interacting with people, but it's well worth it and can change your life.

Also, depending on what is going on in your life, don't fear or shy away from anti-anxiety or anti-depressant meds.  :)uring difficult times, these can be a very useful crutch.  I find myself plagued by anger around my period and have found that a very small dosage of Ativan - 5mg - does wonders in taking the edge off.  Please speak to a doctor about this. Anything that will help you is worthy of thought.

And how about your diet?  Are you eating too much sugar, processed foods, caffeine, alcohol or nicotene?  All of these exacerbate stress.  A regulated, whole foods diet can make real changes in your mood - even juicing is a big help.

What about FUN?  Are you able to have at least a few hours a week to yourself for a hobby or to spend time with friends?  :)o you play a sport, like golf or tennis?  How about a craft like a pottery or painting class?  I find that physical activity is really fun for me - sports like jetskiing, stand up paddle boarding and rockclimbing that are very physical seem to get my adrenaline going and my mood increase.  Also, are you having fun with your kids?  Are you planning outings where all of you can play and laugh together - amusement parks, games, movies, recreation places, family activities at museums, etc?

Have you thought about a support group?  I attend meetings for Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACA) because they also tackle the issue of having a borderline parent.  I've found them to be very helpful and really appreciate the support from my peers in the group.  Maybe there are parent support groups or women's groups near you?  try www.meetup.com for some ideas.

Start asking yourself: what changes can I make in my life to help me manage stress better?  They say when we're recovering from the effects of BPD parenting that we're not responsible for what happened to us, but we are responsible for what we do about it.  So, ultimately, the pressure is on us to do what we need to do to change so that we don't repeat the dysfunctional patterns our parents taught us. You are one step ahead of your BPD mom because you can acknowledge and accept responsibility for your behavior.  Be gentle with yourself, as you're learning and growing.  But, now, what are you going to do to change it?

[Turkish]

This is a tough one, lm1109. It's hard enough to deal with little children without growing up in a difficult, or abusive household. I think the first good step is that you are conscious of your FOO and how much mirroring you may be doing of your mother.

Children are good at manipulation and pushing boundaries, and each is born with specific inborn traits. S4 reminds of of his mom: his tantrums he can't control; D2 is more stoic, and I think her quiet tantrums are often pure manipulation to test my boundaries and this is easier to deal with for me than my son.

I've never smacked my kids, other than a little whap to the hand, and it's been rare, like when they hit me. One night I got so mad at S4 who was throwing a fit at the dinner table (I think he was also hitting his sister) that I felt myself raise my fist to him. He flinched, even though I've never hit him. I instantly thought, "I'm angry like my mother, and she would have smacked me across the mouth at this point." I walked out of the room and calmed myself down. I let S4 scream and cry for a bit at the dinner table.

I faintly remember my mom taking me into the bathroom at a pizza place and spanking me because I refused to eat pizza. I wasn't even throwing a tantrum. She just got mad at me. Like many of us here, loving and smother behavior was juxtaposed to anger and often abuse. So confusing for a little child.

My kids' mom already lost it once this past summer and spanked our son because he accidentally peed his pants (which violated the custody order, actually, which specifies no spanking). In addition to my own mom, I constantly think, "I'm not like my kids' mom. I have the ability to do better and be better."

I've also been rethinking time-outs and how I soothe my kids. I started doing what their mom always said to do to her when she was acting out: physically comforting her. I am firm with my voice and boundaries, I even put them on short time outs (again, for D2 this is rare since she is the easier child). Then I pick them up and hold them tight. S4 still tries to lightly hit me, but I keep reassuring him that while I didn't like what he may have done or it was unacceptable, that I do love him. This has calmed him down much faster than putting him in his room, where he would previously scream for 15-20 mins. It also calms me, too. I validate his being upset.

Since he's about to turn 5, it's still a work in progress. He was a Terrible 2s, 3s, 4s. D2 has started acting out a little bit more, but I wouldn't qualify her as a Terrible 2. I think a lot of this is inborn, and the dynamic between me actively trying to differentiate myself from my mom is helping, though I may have that latent, learned anger deep down inside of me.

A good book that has been recommended here is The Power of Validation. I got 1/3 through it, then went off to do other things. What I read so far was very enlightening. It also helped me to realize how much I was invalidated myself as a child, and to not repeat what was done to me.

jmanvo's suggestions on working on calming your emotions are very good, and to try to reach out to others, because dealing with little kids seemingly so isolated can be very stressful. Do you think that can take the Wisemind approach to incorporate tackling this issue on multiple fronts? If you can calm your children, it may help calm you as well, since they acting out seems to be triggering you.

Turkish

[lm1109]

Thank you guys for your replies!   I feel like the main issue for me, which I didn't explain well, is that I AVOID discipline... ALOT! Its like every other relationship in my life, I let the stress build and build and then unleash because I cant handle the stress anymore. I'm like this with my husband as well. Ive always been like this! I feel like everyone I explain this to tells me not to worry and that we all yell at our kids sometimes, etc. But I know this must be SO confusing for my kids! Its confusing because I DONT lose it often! Im not the mommy screaming at her kids for every little thing all the time. I do SOO well at being compassionate towards my kids MOST of the time. Then, seemingly out of "nowhere" I get triggered and have a meltdown! I don't hit, I don't verbally abuse them... .but I lose control of myself! I yell, I scream, and I end up feeling guilty and hopeless! I feel like I cant handle the stress anymore! Of course, the feelings pass, but in the moments I believe it and IM scared, so of course, they must be scared! I feel like I've always taken on too much... I walk around like I can conquer the world and take care of everyone. I guess maybe when I have the realizations that I cant and that Im not perfect I feel shame and guilt? I was the "caretaker" and the therapist to my mom from an extremely early age! My kids are young and I want to fix this for them and myself! Writing it out makes me realize that as much as I don't want to believe it, I still have a lot of fixing to do... and therapy is probably in order again. Does anyone else ever feel mad about that? I feel like I try SO hard to move on and move forward just to constantly get dragged back by more crap I need to fix!   

[jmanvo2015]

"... .I still have a lot of fixing to do... and therapy is probably in order again. Does anyone else ever feel mad about that? I feel like I try SO hard to move on and move forward just to constantly get dragged back by more crap I need to fix!"

Yes, I feel like this.  I also struggle against feeling of shame and inadequacy from coming from such a dysfunctional family, as though somehow it's my fault. 

You know what?  We will never be fixed?  Why?  Because we're not an appliance  We're human beings and that means we're inherently flawed.  You're not going to be a perfect parent.  You're going to make mistakes.  You're going to fall short.  Sometimes, you're going to be your mother.  If you're holding yourself to standards of perfection (something children of dysfunction often do), you might want to think on that and think on if you're being too hard on yourself, or expecting too much of yourself.

It sounds, to me, from what you say below, that you're a damn good parent and that you've worked very hard not to repeat your mother's behaviors.  The point is to keep learning and growing.  So, when you say that "maybe" you need to go back to therapy, I'm kind of wondering what would be preventing your from doing that if it could be a tool to help you manage stress better?

[Ziggiddy]

Oh my goodness! lm1109 except for the ages of your kids I could pretty much have written your post!

I really feel for you as you have several problems all going on at once. One is that you don't want to treat your kids the way you were treated as far as discipline goes. Two you are frustrated and stressed probably exhausted and critical of yourself. And three, you don't have a nice orderly mother you can turn to either as a role model or a helper/advisor. I really feel for you.

It would be worth your while to slow down - be prepared to walk away before the pressure valve explodes. You are trying hard NOT to be something and having that in your mind can easily persuade your subconscious to DO that even while you're thinking DON'T do that!

Me I was thinking how my mother criticises my parenting and even when she's not there I take over the job of flogging myself. My problem is  I don't want them to feel pain but I DO want them to learn. i was once told that discipline is about feeling uncomfortable with yourself not hating yourself. it's so important to teach my kids right from wrong that I have to ask myself am I sparing them discomfort or am I sparing ME discomfort?

I really  think consistency is the key. Choose the specific behaviour you want to affect - eg "Johnny if you don't stop swinging on the curtain rail you'll be sitting on the naughty chair for 5 minutes." And then do that. Every time. And be prepared knowing that you WILL feel guilty. Choose a way to deal with your guilt. "When I feel bad I will think of the future when Johnny has a little boy and he is swinging on the curtain rails. How will he learn from me?" Or "When I feel bad I will remember that I don't want to take him to the ER with a broken arm. better a bit of discomfort now than a lot of pain later"

And be prepared to apologise to them when you fluff it. "Sorry Johnny I didn't realise it was Lola on the curtain rail."

Kids are surprisingly resilient. Above all don't start thinking about your mother! You are NOT her and you are doing a WAAAY better job!

hope this didn't sound too 'commanding' I get a bit excited at this as it's so close to my own heart!

Ziggiddy

[pessim-optimist]

Hello Im1109,

You have already gotten good advice. Disciplining kids is a really difficult topic if you haven't had good example. So, please be kind to yourself while I am sure you are doing your best.

Thank you guys for your replies!   I feel like the main issue for me, which I didn't explain well, is that I AVOID discipline... ALOT! Its like every other relationship in my life, I let the stress build and build and then unleash because I cant handle the stress anymore. I'm like this with my husband as well. Ive always been like this!

This jumps out at me - you already see what the problem is, and what the solution is: confront sooner, faster, and very consistently. If you teach your children by very consistent repetition what you expect and what they can expect in turn, they will feel safe. And in turn, you will have less stress on your hands, so you will have more energy to keep teaching them consistently about new things.

I have a question for you: how is your husband with your kids? Can you learn from him? (In my experience a lot of dads instinctively understand that boundaries are important and they enforce them early and with confident authority. As a result, the kids listen to them well, and so there is less stress.)

Also, I want to encourage you - the ages 5, 2 and 1 are a sure indicator that you have a full house of busy toddlers - those are the most stressful times (it will get better as they age). On the other hand, this is your most important window of opportunity with 2 and 1. 5 is already set in his basic personhood, even though he will still grow and change a lot.