BPDs, Depositions and Medical Records, oh my

[cobaltblue]

Just wanted to share a bit of news that may help others here.

12 months post filing against uBPD spouse.

Full-on three month custody evaluation took place.

Depositions happened. Through some legal finagling and a court order with HIPPA protective order, uBPD attorney was able to gain access to my therapy records and medical records and allowed to sit and take copious notes on same, without photocopying them. They were then able to refer to these notes when they deposed me and depose me on issues that I discussed with my therapist, like "Can you tell us why you told your therapist that your wife was undiagnosed BPD?" She was present at depositions. It was such a huge violation of privacy and bullying but so typical that a BPD would pull it.

Imagine this: You originally go to a therapist 3 years ago solely for the purpose of helping you cope living in an abusive BPD relationship as the nonBPD. You discuss countless things in confidence. Then BPD and attorney for BPD gain access and can use your anxieties and discussions as part of their bullying playbook... .

So now we have to worry about what we say in therapy? What the heck... .

One month until trial. According to the BPD playbook now is about the time when they either file personal bankruptcy, have me arrested and incarcerated on a false sexual abuse charge or domestic violence; or request a continuance to further delay the abandonment process... .Oh joy.

And the really fascinating thing in all this? Nobody seems to care at all about BPD behavior. Doesn't matter because they haven't been diagnosed... .

[ForeverDad]

My ex made HIPAA claims to block me from getting access to our preschooler's therapy records.  She had started him in therapy so she could have "negative advocates" to support her in her blocking of my parenting.  She started in December 2005 soon after we separated, I found out in Feb 2006 when insurance sent me a re-certification acknowledgement.  I promptly asked for a meeting with the quasi-county agency and had a very chilly meeting, they offered no information, asked no questions when I offered to explain the family environment and said I could file for release of son's therapy records.  So I did.  I promptly got a form Denial letter with the box checked "likely to be dangerous to the health or life of the patient or others".   This while CPS had told the court they had no concerns about me and the court had made me a standard alternate weekend dad for the duration of the temp order. :'(  Court said I had statutory rights and to try again.  I did and was Denied again with a mere photocopy of the prior checked form.  Second time in court a few months later I raised the issue again and the magistrate got my ex to agree to sign papers to make access available.  Nothing changed, clearly she never signed anything.  Third time in court my lawyer had filed a Motion to Compel, ex opposed based on claims her HIPAA protected comments were mixed in his records.  Court discounted it and granted it after over 13 months of obstructions.  In a couple days I had some 200+ pages in my hands and nothing was blacked out.  They still wouldn't let me bring son in for therapy, since ex had temp custody they said it was up to her.  By then the custody evaluator was involved and I'm sure he burned their ears because about the time he filed his initial report with the court they started including me.  About 3-4 years later Shared Parenting ended, I got custody and then I was in charge and for our last series of sessions the counselor didn't even want ex to come in.

However, I am not aware of my ex getting my records or me getting any of her records, besides I doubt she ever sought therapy or counseling.  I agree this was a violation of privacy, but for what legal purpose?  On what basis did the court grant them access to rummage through your counseling records?

Frankly though, your suspicions expressed privately don't mean much, you're right that courts don't care about diagnostic labels unless something like murder is involved.  And they don't want you to try to "play doctor" either.  They stick to the behaviors and behavior patterns, so you should too.

One month until trial. According to the BPD playbook now is about the time when they either file personal bankruptcy, have me arrested and incarcerated on a false sexual abuse charge or domestic violence; or request a continuance to further delay the abandonment process... .Oh joy.

Probably too late for her to make a credible DV or abuse complaint, but I wouldn't put it past them.  Be careful with your parenting, don't lose your temper with her or the kids, don't give her any fodder to manufacture exaggerated complaints.  (Starting a few months before our separated I recorded so I would have proof I wasn't the one misbehaving.  After separation I continued at any time we had exchanges or were near each other.  My special form of Divorce Insurance.)

I don't think she can file bankruptcy unless you join her in the action or until after the divorce is final?  Not sure about that.  Get legal advice.  And be aware that she will try to get all the assets and leave you with all the debts.  Don't let her take advantage of you financially, emotionally, materially or ding your ability to parent.

What my ex did was to delay as much as she could, she had a favorable temporary order, court refused to make any modifications to it midstream and so every continuance or failed attempt to mediate or settle just kept her in the driver's seat that much longer.  My lawyer had estimated 7-9 months, it turned into a 23.5 month divorce process.

[cobaltblue]

Oh yah. I forgot that she is also pushing for therapy for the kids, likely for the reason yours did. I don't know how to counter that circus... .

My ex made HIPAA claims to block me from getting access to our preschooler's therapy records.  She had started him in therapy so she could have "negative advocates" to support her in her blocking of my parenting.  She started in December 2005 soon after we separated, I found out in Feb 2006 when insurance sent me a re-certification acknowledgement.  I promptly asked for a meeting with the quasi-county agency and had a very chilly meeting, they offered no information, asked no questions when I offered to explain the family environment and said I could file for release of son's therapy records.  So I did.  I promptly got a form Denial letter with the box checked "likely to be dangerous to the health or life of the patient or others".   This while CPS had told the court they had no concerns about me and the court had made me a standard alternate weekend dad for the duration of the temp order. :'(  Court said I had statutory rights and to try again.  I did and was Denied again with a mere photocopy of the prior checked form.  Second time in court a few months later I raised the issue again and the magistrate got my ex to agree to sign papers to make access available.  Nothing changed, clearly she never signed anything.  Third time in court my lawyer had filed a Motion to Compel, ex opposed based on claims her HIPAA protected comments were mixed in his records.  Court discounted it and granted it after over 13 months of obstructions.  In a couple days I had some 200+ pages in my hands and nothing was blacked out.  They still wouldn't let me bring son in for therapy, since ex had temp custody they said it was up to her.  By then the custody evaluator was involved and I'm sure he burned their ears because about the time he filed his initial report with the court they started including me.  About 3-4 years later Shared Parenting ended, I got custody and then I was in charge and for our last series of sessions the counselor didn't even want ex to come in.

However, I am not aware of my ex getting my records or me getting any of her records, besides I doubt she ever sought therapy or counseling.  I agree this was a violation of privacy, but for what legal purpose?  On what basis did the court grant them access to rummage through your counseling records?

Frankly though, your suspicions expressed privately don't mean much, you're right that courts don't care about diagnostic labels unless something like murder is involved.  And they don't want you to try to "play doctor" either.  They stick to the behaviors and behavior patterns, so you should too.

One month until trial. According to the BPD playbook now is about the time when they either file personal bankruptcy, have me arrested and incarcerated on a false sexual abuse charge or domestic violence; or request a continuance to further delay the abandonment process... .Oh joy.

Probably too late for her to make a credible DV or abuse complaint, but I wouldn't put it past them.  Be careful with your parenting, don't lose your temper with her or the kids, don't give her any fodder to manufacture exaggerated complaints.  (Starting a few months before our separated I recorded so I would have proof I wasn't the one misbehaving.  After separation I continued at any time we had exchanges or were near each other.  My special form of Divorce Insurance.)

I don't think she can file bankruptcy unless you join her in the action or until after the divorce is final?  Not sure about that.  Get legal advice.  And be aware that she will try to get all the assets and leave you with all the debts.  Don't let her take advantage of you financially, emotionally, materially or ding your ability to parent.

What my ex did was to delay as much as she could, she had a favorable temporary order, court refused to make any modifications to it midstream and so every continuance or failed attempt to mediate or settle just kept her in the driver's seat that much longer.  My lawyer had estimated 7-9 months, it turned into a 23.5 month divorce process.

[Aussie JJ]

Mine,

My P told me she had BPD based off the description of the behaviours, one phone call from her and other things I showed him from e-mails, basically he asked me did XYZ happen regulary?  did ABC happen regulary ?, further more during our relationship she told me she had BPD but they called it Bi-Polar, also told me she had a "mood regulation disorder", "emotionaly unstable mood disotder", "Anxiety disorder" and "mental health problems"... . Some of it cdocumented in e-mails. 

My P has taken very copious notes on her behaviours as I have described them and explained it to me so he can explain it in his notes with the effect it is having on me.  Simply put, they can question him all they want, she has to justify all the things she told me, including some of the e-mails if she denys it.  

She can have all of his notes, I just want all of hers, multple psychologists and at least 2 psyciatrists. 

Each to there own.  Just get through it one day at a time.  


AJJ.  

[livednlearned]

Depositions happened. Through some legal finagling and a court order with HIPPA protective order, uBPD attorney was able to gain access to my therapy records and medical records and allowed to sit and take copious notes on same, without photocopying them. They were then able to refer to these notes when they deposed me and depose me on issues that I discussed with my therapist, like "Can you tell us why you told your therapist that your wife was undiagnosed BPD?" She was present at depositions. It was such a huge violation of privacy and bullying but so typical that a BPD would pull it.

Imagine this: You originally go to a therapist 3 years ago solely for the purpose of helping you cope living in an abusive BPD relationship as the nonBPD. You discuss countless things in confidence. Then BPD and attorney for BPD gain access and can use your anxieties and discussions as part of their bullying playbook... .

So now we have to worry about what we say in therapy? What the heck... .

One month until trial. According to the BPD playbook now is about the time when they either file personal bankruptcy, have me arrested and incarcerated on a false sexual abuse charge or domestic violence; or request a continuance to further delay the abandonment process... .Oh joy.

That makes my stomach turn just thinking about what you had to sit through. What a violation.

I was deposed to, although my ex didn't think about doing what yours did. One thing I learned, though, is that depositions are part theater, part fishing. The other L is trying to size up your credibility as a witness, and gauge how well his own client will look. Has your L deposed her? After my deposition, which literally made me throw up the morning it took place, made the opposing lawyer rethink what he was dealing with. I followed my lawyer's instructions to a T, and learned how to answer questions. Like saying, "No." and "Yes." Instead of what we instinctively want to do, which is to say, "Yes, but... ." and then set ourselves to get trapped during cross-examination on the stand.

Did anything come out during the deposition that you think could be used against you?

[ForeverDad]

Courts view counseling for everyone, including the children, as a good thing.  Where it goes south (north for those Down Under?) is when the counseling is hijacked and transformed into a platform for blaming and alienation as happened to me.  In other words, to gain Negative Advocates.

Do your research, ask your mental health supporter who good, experienced and reputable child counselors are.  Get a list of the best, the ones who will "call it like it is", the ones least likely to be manipulated, conned, bamboozled or stymied by the wild claims, endless accusations, the constant distractions and distortions, the subtle and not-so-subtle manipulations and posturing.

That way if and when the court or other professionals do agree the children should have counselors - you don't want to be seen opposing counseling - you can step up with your short list and tell ex to pick any one of them.  (That is a common procedure, one side builds a short list and the other side chooses from among them.  Clearly you want to make the list, not her.)  She will try to disqualify the good counselors and divert everyone to a gullible one she wants, but this is a good way to thwart that.

[livednlearned]

Ditto to what FD said, especially about picking the list. Be the reasonable parent who is focused on solving the problem -- find three good counselors, and then let her pick from the three. There is a lot to learn when it comes to good counselors, so do a bit of research. You want someone who has some ethics training. I learned that there are a lot of forensic psychologists who get trained in for-profit universities, and they receive zero ethics training and very little clinical experience during their training. No surprise that many of these for-profit universities focus on forensic psychology because family courts are a steady stream of income. We are their cash cows. They often graduate with enormous debt loads and are very driven to make money.

The ethics part is important. You might even ask a bunch of counselors what kind of training they received, and how they would handle a case where the parents are engaged in a high-conflict divorce.

Also, you have to make a decision about whether or not to look for a child psychologists who won't testify in court. If you want therapy for your child, and don't want that relationship to become exhibit A in a custody battle, look for someone who asks you to sign a waiver. That allows your child to have a genuine, confidential therapeutic relationship. An ethical child psychologist will not tell you what gets discussed unless he or she is concerned (suicide ideation, risky or harmful behavior, learning disabilities, etc.)

If you think a child psychologist might become a key witness at some point, then you're looking for a very different kind of person.

One other thing -- make sure you don't start using your kids' therapist for your own issues. It's a surprisingly slippery slope. You don't want to start talking about your relationship with your ex to the kids' therapist. Focus on your kid, and how your kid is coping. A lot of kids won't actually want to talk about mom and dad, they want to talk about stuff with peers. A good therapist will use that material to try and help them deal with the underlying damage that influences their peer relationships.

And make sure that in the order it says something very specific about how your child will get to therapy. Including that each parent is expected to take the child 50/50. If one parent cannot go, the other parent may take the child. And if one parent does not like the therapist, see if you can come up with a plan for how that decision will get made. You know that if you find a good therapist, your ex will eventually want to change therapists. That isn't good for your kids -- it takes a while for them to bond. But you also want to have a say if your ex ingratiates herself with the T.

My ex took S13 once or twice, then stopped. Instead, he started to email these lengthy messages about how awful I was, and that I was lying, and this and that. The therapist finally told him she would no longer read them, and that if he had specific concerns about S13, that she was willing to meet and talk in person.

It's amazing how something as simple as therapy can get kooky.

[ogopogodude]

    Gosh, ... .having a subpoena for my medical records and my (ex)wife's medical records would be a God-Send. That would work 100% in my favour & negative 100% in my wife's.  I made sure to go to her physician as a "guest patient" without her (and WITH her, twice). And now her own doctor knows that she is very, very troubled.  A physician is obligated to look over and peruse any collateral information presented to him/her, ... .and MUST document that the information has been received and kept from this outside source.  Information from a spouse or ex-spouse provided TO that spouse's doctor cannot be discarded as this would be a violation of the Health Act here in Canada.

    In Canada, it is extremely difficult to get medical records admitted into any Canadian court in any province.  Privacy & confidentiality is everything in Canada. 

[ogopogodude]

Information coming from an outside source rather than directly from the patient to the doctor is so, very helpful at times.  It can clarify things for that physician, and make that doctor "See the light", as well as realize that whatever information that comes out of their patient's pie-hole is at times of questionable nature.