The proviso

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

This is a continuance of my topic, how to be assertive with my L... .

To start off with, x2bh filed for modification of support, hearing got scheduled. He added to it that he wants support also, so hearing got canceled and rescheduled. The rescheduled  hearing is postponed, on account h cannot make it on that date.  I have meeting with my L.  He wants to go ahead and send a counter proposal for settlement without waiting for another support hearing date. We discuss many ideas. I asked many questions.

H wanted support retroactive to last year. IF that were to happen it would  not be that I  owe him a lump sum of money. It would be taken off future payments of c/s.

I asked about what if I took what he owes in future c/s off the portion of marital assets that could be legally his. Possibility but not right now.    Then how about sticking to the state guidelines for c/s.  Ok.

In h's settlement proposal , he wanted both exemptions for kids. At first my L said most likely we give him one child for tax exemption. My L talked to my accountant... .my L now says no that I am to keep both kids for tax exemptions . Ok

As for the house, I am to stay in it and give h his share of equity only. Ok. ( just in case I did look at other houses and started bonding with one... )

My family's business , h will receive his share of marital property portion of it. Period. The capital gain from the sale of it is not to be used as income for me , ever.    Hence , the proviso. So if h does not agree to this then it is not considered a counter proposal.

I like it, but also explained to my L that no matter what we propose, h will want a lot more so he feels he can be the winner. That would be in any case, but with a pwPD it is more so. My L said then that in that case we keep with what we have. So that is why he he worded with the provisions.

Before going to my meeting with my L , I reread the posts , and pm's, I had in response , I wrote down notes and had them with me. Thanks to all  .   It all helped me to be proactive and prepared for my meeting with my L.

[whirlpoollife]

This is a continuance of my topic, how to be assertive with my L... .

To start off with, x2bh filed for modification of support, hearing got scheduled. He added to it that he wants support also, so hearing got canceled and rescheduled. The rescheduled  hearing is postponed, on account h cannot make it on that date.  I have meeting with my L.  He wants to go ahead and send a counter proposal for settlement without waiting for another support hearing date. We discuss many ideas. I asked many questions.

H wanted support retroactive to last year. IF that were to happen it would  not be that I  owe him a lump sum of money. It would be taken off future payments of c/s.

I asked about what if I took what he owes in future c/s off the portion of marital assets that could be legally his. Possibility but not right now.    Then how about sticking to the state guidelines for c/s.  Ok.

In h's settlement proposal , he wanted both exemptions for kids. At first my L said most likely we give him one child for tax exemption. My L talked to my accountant... .my L now says no that I am to keep both kids for tax exemptions . Ok

As for the house, I am to stay in it and give h his share of equity only. Ok. ( just in case I did look at other houses and started bonding with one... )

My family's business , h will receive his share of marital property portion of it. Period. The capital gain from the sale of it is not to be used as income for me , ever.    Hence , the proviso. So if h does not agree to this then it is not considered a counter proposal.

I like it, but also explained to my L that no matter what we propose, h will want a lot more so he feels he can be the winner. That would be in any case, but with a pwPD it is more so. My L said then that in that case we keep with what we have. So that is why he he worded with the provisions.

Before going to my meeting with my L , I reread the posts , and pm's, I had in response , I wrote down notes and had them with me. Thanks to all  .   It all helped me to be proactive and prepared for my meeting with my L.

[ForeverDad]

And no matter how tight you make an offer, agreement or failing that the court issues an order, a person with an acting-out PD (pwAOPD?) will try to find a way to twist it or reinterpret it.  Just the nature of the beast.  Like a dog with a bone.  So do the best you can to prepare and move forward letting the professionals handle the pressure, that's what you pay them for.

[scraps66]

Sounds messy.  If closure is possible, take every advantage and if can be done outside of court - where lots of mistakes can be made - do your best to do that as well.  It seems that the receiver of CS can do pretty much anything, at least in my courthouse, but the payor of CS gets few considerations - i.e. get's hosed.   

[livednlearned]

I'm glad you feel good about how things are going!

One thing I would add to what FD said is that pwBPD are often not going to comply with things. My ex might be an extreme case, but still. It goes with the territory.

So having very very watertight language about the consequences for not complying is important. Even if it's about complying with something he has asked for, or agreed to. When I first started to catch on, and began reading carefully for consequences, my L thought I was being way too type A, but now she has seen how it plays out each time, and is proactively adding that language, or consulting with me when she writes the orders.

Can you think of any points that require his compliance and come up with consequences?

[david]

If you think he will fight your proposal and try to "win" by reducing what you are asking then ask for more and settle for what you want. This lets him "win". I used that tactic several times with my ex and it worked.

[adventurer]

ask for more and settle for what you want. This lets him "win".

This is just great advice to keep in mind for any type of negotiations in life.

[whirlpoollife]

The rescheduled hearing for modification of support got rescheduled again.

My counter proposal got sent to the other side three weeks ago. A week ago I asked my L what is going on. He said they , h and his L, didn't go over it yet. This after being asked by them ,the very next day , what my counter proposal was after they sent the first one in.

In my proposal,  my L gave them 20 days to respond otherwise it is taken as a rejection.  He feels they need more time now. I want a date set on the calendar for a master. My L said not yet.

If you think he will fight your proposal and try to "win" by reducing what you are asking then ask for more and settle for what you want. This lets him "win". I used that tactic several times with my ex and it worked.

H did use that on me... .by wanting 92% of marital assets plus more.  (Plus in the beginning of divorce  he wanted full custody of kids) I explained to my L that h has to "win" as he has been very competitive with me, so I didn't want to offer a fair offer because h will never just say ok.  My L had said we will then just stick to what we have. ( which is more than half for h) But I have a hunch that h will want a higher % of marital assets and my L will tell me again that is cheaper than a trial so give it to him. 

Who knows , just waiting it out.

[livednlearned]

The rescheduled hearing for modification of support got rescheduled again.

My counter proposal got sent to the other side three weeks ago. A week ago I asked my L what is going on. He said they , h and his L, didn't go over it yet. This after being asked by them ,the very next day , what my counter proposal was after they sent the first one in.

In my proposal,  my L gave them 20 days to respond otherwise it is taken as a rejection.  He feels they need more time now. I want a date set on the calendar for a master. My L said not yet.

If you think he will fight your proposal and try to "win" by reducing what you are asking then ask for more and settle for what you want. This lets him "win". I used that tactic several times with my ex and it worked.

H did use that on me... .by wanting 92% of marital assets plus more.  (Plus in the beginning of divorce  he wanted full custody of kids) I explained to my L that h has to "win" as he has been very competitive with me, so I didn't want to offer a fair offer because h will never just say ok.  My L had said we will then just stick to what we have. ( which is more than half for h) But I have a hunch that h will want a higher % of marital assets and my L will tell me again that is cheaper than a trial so give it to him. 

Who knows , just waiting it out.

It usually takes two lawyers to agree to a continuance. Three weeks is enough time, especially for a second continuance, no? And your L said no response would be taken as a rejection. So now the opposing side knows your L is weak. Not a good sign.

Can you tell your L that you do not agree to a continuance under any circumstances, and if one is proposed, he must consult you?

It also raises red flags that the offer on the table already gives H more than half. I know you have a complicated situation and maybe I'm forgetting the details, but I get the sense your L does not understand BPD. The best strategy is to prepare as though you'll go to trial. Psychologically and financially, expect to go before a judge. Then, be pleasantly surprised if the other side stands down and settles the morning your hearing is scheduled.

The way to minimize costs is to avoid filing continuances and communicating with people who are not negotiating in good faith.

[ForeverDad]

Lawyers generally know each other more or less and often give each other 'professional consideration' with these requests.  Even judges allow one or two continuances but very soon the court or lawyer should get peeved at repeated delays.

My lawyer didn't object at first but when it became a pattern with the other lawyer he said enough was enough.  When ex's lawyer filed for a continuance of a pre-trial hearing stating ex had abdominal pain and was under a doctor's care, my lawyer was going to file an objection.  At that point we were about a year into a Parenting Schedule Modification case that ended up taking about 17 months.  But the magistrate beat him to it and denied it stating only lawyers were expected to be at a pre-trial hearing so ex's health status was irrelevant.

Needless to say, my ex's goal was to delay the outcome because every case resulted in her parenting authority or parenting time being reduced.  Delays helped her, not me.  Some delays are unavoidable but there must be a limit.

[david]

I filed for a change in custody in August 2012. Yes that is right 2012. We finally have a date set for next month and the judge was clear that no more delays would be allowed. My petition was for more time during the school year since the boys do 90 % of their homework when with me. Ex has used so many delay tactics it has dragged out this long. However, I was learning and helping both boys figure things out for themselves. This helped both the boys and I and also made our relationship stronger still. On top of that things haven't changed as far as the homework situation so I have over two years of solid evidence to make my case. The judge actually made a temp order in Sept giving me the additional time. I had lost patience and I did let my atty know enough was enough in Sept. He followed my directions and stood firm. Ex's atty made two attempts leading up to the Sept hearing trying to delay again. The judge delayed it this time because my atty showed him reams of evidence that will make this hearing take an entire day. The judge rescheduled because of that but did say there would be no more delays. Our S16's grades went to all A's and a B-. It was a noticeable improvement from the last two years. S11's grades are slightly improved but he was doing very well to begin with since I was spending most of our time with him.

Ex's atty did not agree unless I was willing to give ex the entire Thanksgiving holiday this year so she could go out of state to visit her family with the kids. It is normally split 50/50. I agreed. Well, we had a court ordered co parent counseling meeting last Monday and ex said that the boys did not want to go out of state to visit her family. She never said she wasn't going so I sent her an email later that day asking if she was still going. She replied this morning that she was indeed going for an entire week and that I would have to take the boys for the week.

I am trying to make a point and the point is that giving my ex additional time ( enough rope) when possible can be turned into an advantage.

I agree with lnl about giving more than half up front. Your situation may make sense to do that but I learned to always ask for much more than what I thought was fair and settle for what I thought was fair. I am not sure of the details of your situation so that could change my mind. With the information I read in this post it seems like giving too much is not a good strategy.

[whirlpoollife]

The modification for support / h wanting support hearing (2 in 1) is separate from the division of assets.

But... .they commingle.  Because h wants some of the marital asset part of my inheritance. The capital gain from the sale of a property. But he also wants to use it as in increase in income for me.  He can't have both.  I did not want to give more than 50%. My L said to to do more... .60%. My L made a point in the proposal that h had nothing to do with the property and never contributed to it. That is so if it went to a trial it shows the entitlement h has. In h's first and only proposal it had a clues at the end that none of what is written can be used in future litigation.

Plus he took off the total the $k h owes in back support.   Which has increased since .

Yes the L's know each other. H's current L is in a law firm with h's first L.  His first L dropped him when I got current L.

They do speak to each other. But I know h will stall things to be in control. 

I cannot change L at this point. Way too involved. I recently heard is good and he will look out for me but... .

he doesn't know PD like we do. I keep asking for a set date for a divorce master but L won't do it. I am as assertive as I can be to my L.

I read about all the delays and just figure this is part of the process divorcing a pwPD.

[david]

Don't stop documenting and thinking of ways to turn lemons into lemonade. It is amazing how my thought processes have changed. In the beginning I was confused/angry/ wanting to be proven right/etc. Now I don't care about any of that and just want to accomplish what I think is best for our kids. My attitude shift is noticeable. I cab see the difference myself. I am more confident and focused. If my atty starts to stray I get him back on track. He then will explain why he is doing what he is doing or he realizes he went off track.

[whirlpoollife]

No response yet from h on my counter offer to his first proposal . My L said h 's L said h is still reviewing it.  My L said next week or week after for a response. I asked again when can I have the divorce master appointed.  There was a waiting period from when we filed for one. Normally it is 45 days , h wanted 120, my L compromised to 90. This is for discovery,  why I don't know, everything has been discovered and presented some time ago.    So that has been in place even though h had made the first offer two and half months ago.  That deadline is coming up soon so maybe we will really get a response to our offer. Which doesn't mean I will accept it either.

My L keeps telling me that trial will be very expensive. Don't go there if I don't have to.  

The modification for support hearing isn't till later this month.  I am on h's medical ins policy. That expires at the end of the year .  After divorce is final, I have to have my own policy. My L wants me to get my own ins now, in order to start it first of the year.  In order to have my own policy I have to be divorced.  So with that my L, said to get a bifurcation . Which means I get divorced but economic issues continue.  I told him h will drag this out even more with that .  He assures me he cannot  and will proceed with a divorce master.  Even with a divorce master, there is so much waiting time for each step till the judge finalizes things, that it will be months till divorce is finalized.  Being divorced will be great but it's the division of assets I wish were completed along with it.

I have no idea what medical ins  h plans to have start of next year, kids included,  I asked my L ,if I have a right to know.    his response via email, that according to the support dept, h has to carry the kids unless at the support hearing later this month that changes. So again he didn't really answer my question which will cost me more to ask it again.

Do I go ahead and get the bifurcation, and my own policy? Does my L know more than what he tells me and feels that we get a settlement this year? Idk.

For those of you who pay support , I know this seems like I am greedy.  But because of his entitlement and marriage vows I lost thousands to him. So I don't mind getting something back... .well , sort of, he is now further behind due to lack of payment.



 

[livednlearned]

My L keeps telling me that trial will be very expensive. Don't go there if I don't have to.

While that's true, I've also learned that not all lawyers are good in court. Hopefully your L is giving you good counsel and not trying to avoid being in court. I wonder if there's any way you can find out. My lawyer was excellent in court. I sat in court enough times to see other lawyers try their cases, and it made me realize how good she was. A couple of times there were lawyers who weren't sure what they were "allowed" to do by law, so they turned around and asked my L.    Must've really made their clients feel confident.

Do I go ahead and get the bifurcation, and my own policy? Does my L know more than what he tells me and feels that we get a settlement this year? Idk.

That's kind of how it worked in my case. I filed for divorce Nov 2010. Divorce was granted Feb 2012. We had to be separated a year in my state before filing for divorce. But even though the financial stuff was drawn up in the so-called temporary order, hardly any of the financial disentanglement got settled until 2013. I had to keep filing motions for contempt to get N/BPDx to comply with the order.

For you, it seems like you have to balance whatever is most urgent with whatever gives you the most leverage. It's urgent for you to get insurance, right? Then put that first. Your ex is going to drag things out no matter what, unless there is some kind of incentive for him to do things quickly, which often there isn't.

I doubt your L knows more than what you know. Most lawyers really can't imagine what BPD is like unless they have experienced it first-hand. You would know if your L had that kind of experience. I doubt your L would have compromised to 90 days for a divorce master, is my guess. My L would never compromise unless it was explicitly in my favor, and she never agreed to an extension unless she had my permission.

And I don't think you're greedy at all. Anything you gain will probably be spent on lawyers anyway, either getting him to comply, or getting your lawyers to understand what they're dealing with. Look at that money as funds to deal with a high-conflict stbx husband.

[whirlpoollife]

LnL, that could be right, that it is he who does not want to go to court!  He could be very good when it comes to business law but maybe prefer to avoid divorce court with a pwPD. He has told me many times he lives for his work, that he would not know what to do if it wasn't for his work. He is in his office all the time but age and anxiety are catching up.

Medical ins is important to me but also making h pay for till the end is also important. That was my "ace card" , or so I thought, that would get h to want to settle. My first L pointed that out for me but made me give it up in a limited time in order to get h out of the house. Then current L got that rescinded.

But then he did that 'compromise' to 90 days, and keeps giving in to their 'need more time' go figure.

I am going to guess too , now that h knows we are going to take what back support he owes off the amount going to him, is why he quit paying.

[livednlearned]

I am going to guess too , now that h knows we are going to take what back support he owes off the amount going to him, is why he quit paying.

Probably. And while it isn't right, and isn't fair, I think this is common. My L told me to draft half of our savings the day I left and use it as an "advance" on our financial settlement, and I did that. Some L's advise their clients to take everything. Court just looks the other way and shrugs. It's almost like you're considered wise for looking out for yourself. Go figure 

Is there any benefit in your mind to giving the other side more time? If not, do you think you can say something to your L? "I know it is reasonable to give the other side more time, but my ex is mentally ill. I don't want to be doing this two years from now. No more negotiating with them about time extensions. The deadline is the deadline. Unless I give you permission, and unless there is a clear gain, we stick to the deadline."

I know it's hard to do, but try to not be afraid of the thought of going to court. There is a better than good chance that your ex's L will pressure your H to settle out of court, the same as what your L is doing with you. The pressure for me to agree to share legal custody was intense -- it was the only thing my ex and I could not agree to in mediation. The mediator, my L, the other L -- they were all pressuring me to agree. I refused, even though I was a basket case. I was literally trembling at the end of our 9 hour mediation. In the end, we settled everything except that one thing. The order said something like, "The parties agree to all things except for this one item which is to be decided before a judge." During mediation, my L and the mediator kept telling me I didn't want to go to trial, that I would not get "justice" from a judge, that it was going to be expensive blah blah blah. That's what lawyers say because the whole court machine wants to keep people out of court. Which is good -- for normal divorces. For our divorces, it's not necessarily true. Our exes don't respect authority from anyone, so the closer to real authority you get, the better. This doesn't negate the fact that court is expensive and you lose some semblance of control because a judge makes a ruling and that's that. It's just that it isn't necessarily a bad thing for people like us because a judge is more likely to look at things and call a spade a spade.

Stick to what you think is best, stick to the deadlines, make sure your L knows that he works for you. Tell him you are not afraid to go to court if it comes to that. There's a really good chance you'll never go. It's the mindset that matters.

You cannot avoid bad things happening in a high-conflict divorce. You know that better than anyone involved in your case. So the advice they give you is advice that applies to normal divorces. Your job is to teach your L that you know more than him about how your ex works. When your L does things and those things start to work out well for you, then you trust him. Until then, he needs to listen to you.

It's hard, but you can do it. You already left your H, not an easy thing to do. You're strong, getting stronger, and the more you trust yourself and assert what you know to be true, the stronger you'll get.

[ForeverDad]

No response yet from h on my counter offer to his first proposal.

Silence was my ex's strategy during the divorce.  That and continuances forced us to check off every step of the divorce process, right up to minutes before the scheduled Trial.  Brinksmanship.  However, she did blink at the very last moment.

My L keeps telling me that trial will be very expensive. Don't go there if I don't have to.

True, most divorces, even ours, end in a settlement.  However, letting your ex know that you would rather avoid trial gives him leverage over you and to some extent can be self-sabotaging.  You need to act as though you're prepared to go all the way to trial and your lawyer needs to use that to your advantage and not be an anchor in the water.

I am on h's medical ins policy.  That expires at the end of the year.  After divorce is final, I have to have my own policy.

Why?  Why do you have to get off at EOY?  Most courts order the medical insurance to continue until the divorce is final and then federal law kicks in, insurance carrier has to be notified and the COBRA offer must be made.

So why the rush to switch insurance now before the final decree?  By the way, historically divorce has been one of a list of "qualifying events", typically at the time of the final decree.  Why the rush if ex is not allowed to stop your coverage earlier?

[whirlpoollife]

Why?  Why do you have to get off at EOY?  Most courts order the medical insurance to continue until the divorce is final and then federal law kicks in, insurance carrier has to be notified and the COBRA offer must be made.

So why the rush to switch insurance now before the final decree?  By the way, historically divorce has been one of a list of "qualifying events", typically at the time of the final decree.  Why the rush if ex is not allowed to stop your coverage earlier?

The policy that is now in place expires at EOY.

This past year my L wanted to know specifics on medical ins and what do I plan to do.  I gave him info each time .

Also , in the last when I asked when and how can we move things along, he would answer that if I need divorced now that I can get a bifurcation. 

Currently L wanted to know cost and details of ins to have that info for the support hearing . I gave him that info plus I brought up the fact I am still married and the policy ends, what do I do? Do I have the right to know what h plans to do for ins.

His first answer was that we can postpone the divorce till I have my own ins. Of course I said no way to postponing.  Then he answered with the bifurcation so I can be divorced and get my own policy.

I wasn't going to post on this but glad I did, the responses give me fuel and thought.

[whirlpoollife]

I received an email from L. He said I was right in anticipation that h would continue the support hearing .

He also said that that there was no response from h's L either . ( I said that too   )

L will have a notice sent in tomorrow or next day to the divorce master to set a date. He said he will request a pre trial conference with him , to see if h will respond to an agreement there , then if not , on to a hearing.

This is for settlment on assets and spousal support .

My L asks lastly , " what is the willingness of your h to drag this matter on as it is costing him support to me and loss of the use of money to himself. "

How should I answer my L ? ... .I told you so!

No I wont do that. I need something simple . I will also add that it is not costing him support to me due to lack of .

[livednlearned]

I would tell your L that the only thing that works with your H is a big fat boundary. The fact your L is asking this question at this point means he hasn't taken to heart what you've been saying. "Willingness" is a funny word to describe BPD behavior.

Maybe you need your L to realize he has skin in this game. I don't know enough about how your H functions, but N/BPDx was so narcissistic it worked to my advantage. He insulted a junior partner at my L's law firm so badly that I think the partner feels more animosity toward N/BPDx than I do    He accused the judge of lying, threatened my appellate lawyer, threatened my family court lawyer, and filed a complaint against the PC. Once they experienced some of the conflict directly, suddenly they were on board with the whole "he has problems" program.

You don't want your L to make money off you simply because your H is determined to stay negatively engaged. Perhaps apply some reverse psychology to your L, and let him know that you have a friend (me  ) whose ex has the same personality disorder, and he filed complaints against everyone involved in the case. His L withdrew, the judge slapped a gatekeeping order on him, and the PC is still dealing with the complaint against her license. N/BPDx says he is drafting his complaint to the state bar as he goes after my L and her junior partner. Better to get through this quickly by having strong, unflinching boundaries, and that way everyone can move on.

I don't know. I'm just always concerned that the L's don't understand the gravity of what they're dealing with. They work in an adversarial system day in and day out, so to them, they probably think conflict is part of the job. Our challenge is to make sure they understand this is above and beyond normal conflict, and can have a serious impact on everyone involved.

My L was so desperate to be done with N/BPDx she was willing to waive a $3K bill to make N/BPDx go away. Unfortunately, N/BPDx was more interested in staying negatively engaged than saving $3K 

[maxen]

It is amazing how my thought processes have changed. In the beginning I was confused/angry/ wanting to be proven right/etc. Now I don't care about any of that

a bit off topic but i want to say that, though my situation is different from david's, this has been my experience too. it's been a pretty profound change.

My L asks lastly , " what is the willingness of your h to drag this matter on as it is costing him support to me and loss of the use of money to himself. "

How should I answer my L ? ... .I told you so!

No I wont do that.

well actually, if you could do it in a polite way it would not only feel good but would assert your own expertise in the eyes of your L.

btw, my L told me that trial would cost 25K. that's in manhattan, so maybe less where you are, but still expensive.

[whirlpoollife]

A email was sent to the divorce master to ask for a date for a conference or hearing.  A copy was sent to me and to h's L.  I emailed back saying , "now that h' L  sees this , if he asks for more time, the answer is no. We need to set boundaries with h. ... ."

My L said he reads this loud and clear.   (Finally)

Divorce master sent reply back to my L . He said he has my deposit but will wait till he has a depoist from h.   I talked to my L on this , that nothing is going to happen if that is the case. He said he already has a letter ready to go telling the divorce master that. My L said for me to just pay it, otherwise it will cost me more to go after it .  (much less $ than everything else )

He also added that the other L  just contacted him .   He now has questions on the settlement offer we made weeks ago. ... .a droplet of hope again from h... .as it has been for years... .

I'm going in to my L's sec and pay h's deposit ... .

[livednlearned]

I'm going in to my L's sec and pay h's deposit ... .

Can you have this deducted from any settlement?

[whirlpoollife]

I'm going in to my L's sec and pay h's deposit ... .

Can you have this deducted from any settlement?

Yes I'm going to ask for it.  Part of my settlement proposal had that we are responsible for our own legal fees.  so where that would fall in to , not sure.  And if I have to get my own , and kids, medical ins prior to final divorce, I asked my L if I can deduct it, he said that we will.   

( but then h could ask for more money, L will tell me it will be cheaper than a trial, so I will be out that money no matter what)

[whirlpoollife]

My L sent a letter to the divorce master... .( not exact wording)

My client does not wish to wait till h send the depoist fee. If we do this case will just sit.

Which goes against why we are going the way if a hearing.

One option is client pays fee and gets credited

Other option is for you (divorce master) to present  a Motion to Compel and charge him for your fees rather than apportioning them to my client.

L said the Motion to Compel is much more than his fee deposit.

[david]

Sounds like a good boundary.

[livednlearned]

Sounds like a good boundary.

It's unfortunate, but sometimes offering two things, and letting them choose between bad and worse is the only way to get things done.

That's the big takeaway I learned from the last 4 years. Have everything locked up tight with consequences so you can keep moving ahead a few inches at a time.

Are you feeling good about what you've accomplished? I mean, it's not quite victory, but these are people with PDs, after all. The only thing that got my ex to comply was the threat of handcuffs. 

[whirlpoollife]

The divorce master sent a letter back with three options, the first being that I pay and he recommends an approximate offset. If I could get the money in today they would take it to the courthouse.

Seperate from this... .throughout the past year , I have received texts from a phone # I don't know. But I have kept track of them because I get them at stragetic times which I feel h has something to do with them.

On a certain date , last year and again this year same time.  Way too coincidental.   

I haven't had success tracking the number. So I am ready to block it.

I talked to the support dept to ask what is done in the case that h has no medical insurance in place when our policy now expires EOY. She said she will call h h to find out what he plans on doing. She also took notice that he has not paid child support in last few months.  His notice on this has been sent out to him.

She calls back to tell me that h said he was unaware that the policy expires, that this is such a surprise to him, first he ever heard of it. ( he is the one who receives the mail from the ins co) . She he said he will get on it right away.  She asked him about support ... .he said no support this month either as he doesn't have a penny to his name.  She feels he is holding out because of the upcoming support hearing... .next year now, and he thinks he won't owe me anything.

In the last weeks h has been moving from one place to another , each week being the last week he is in one .

In first week of this , he "needed the boy to help him move a few items". I said ok. It was on my weekend.

This happened again, I ignored the text from him, "needing the boy if I allow" .  H has the kids enough weekends to have them help him move. Why again on my weekend.  Same thing tonight , this time my S also mentioned it . Dad just bought some furniture and he needs help to move it, its just too hard by himself etc. (when we moved in to this house we are in,  it was me moving everything piece by piece , because my loving husband didn't want to help. And with two little children in tow. ) I said he can move his stuff himself. Or next weekend you can help or why not last weekend why each time you are here.  Why not his family help him.

S wants to go help his dad. By letting S do so makes S happy, but it also makes h happy as he manipulates the boundaries.

Are you feeling good about what you've accomplished?

I'm trying. This last week the anxiety is back and I feel beaten down... .all from h. But I have put to use some coping mechanisms I have learned to deal with it. One of them, thank you looking back where I was , how I was from this individual. And myself now, so different.

[whirlpoollife]

Seperate from this... .throughout the past year , I have received texts from a phone # I don't know. But I have kept track of them because I get them at stragetic times which I feel h has something to do with them.

On a certain date , last year and again this year same time.  Way too coincidental.  

I haven't had success tracking the number. So I am ready to block it.

I gave copies of my documentation on the these texts to my L for him to look at.

L said they imply an affectionate interest ... .maybe h still has a romantic interest in you... .They are harmless.

example of text , at 2am,  " I luv ur body , when do I get to see it " , "why are u not responding "

They scare me , but they are not life  threatening so maybe L is right  I shouldn't be concerned.  

L is strictly law he says and could care less of the behavior of h.

I can't wait for this divorce to be done.  

[livednlearned]

Ignore the texts, whirlpool. They could just as easily be random or wrong numbers. And if your ex is trying to mess with you, it's meaningless in the bigger scheme.

It's a fine line to be neutral/detached while being assertive. You have to figure out what things are worth focusing on, and the phone messages seem inconsequential.

No reaction means he will lose interest, and might eventually move on, at least as much as possible when kids are involved. But when he is rolling over your boundaries, that's when it counts. Being dispassionate, but also being assertive.

It gets easier. He still has leverage, so that makes it hard. But it also gives you opportunities to practice and get better at holding your boundaries.