Protecting assets from BPDs in marriage

[Tim300]

Can anyone with divorce experience kindly provide any advice on how to protect assets from the grasps of a high-conflict spouse?  I am not yet married.  I figure it could be useful to anticipate what divorce maneuvers a pwBPD is likely to take.  I don't think most pwBPD have a long-term focus, so they might have a relatively weak interest in raiding 401(k)s, 529s, and Health Savings Accounts (compared to getting their hands on cash accounts).  Another strategy could be to save up a lot of "non-marital assets" prior to getting married, and then to hold these assets in passively managed accounts so that the spouse has a weak claim to both the corpus and even the returns earned during marriage.  How have these types of strategies or others played out for you?  Thanks!

[ForeverDad]

Do you mean, How can I knowingly play with fire and get burned as little as possible?  If you are seriously considering this, then I am forced to wonder why you are willing to proceed knowing in advance what risks you would be taking?  It's one thing to stumble in ignorance into a dysfunctional marriage, it's quite another to choose one.  A month ago you had referred to your relationship as ended, why restart it if there are no children, you are aware of the multitude of risks and you could very well lose yourself along the way?  When comparing your mental health and physical safety to the financial aspects, the money is secondary, isn't it?

[Tim300]

Do you mean, How can I knowingly play with fire and get burned as little as possible?  If you are seriously considering this, then I am forced to wonder why you are willing to proceed knowing in advance what risks you would be taking?  It's one thing to stumble into a dysfunctional relationship, it's quite another to choose one.  A month ago you had referred to it as ended, why restart it if there are no children, you are aware of the multitude of risks and you could very well lose yourself along the way?

Thanks "ForeverDad".  Sorry, I should clarify that I'm asking this out of curiosity and also to protect myself if somehow, someway I stumble into a dysfunctional relationship again.  My rumble with my BPD ex-fiancee is over, no looking back, thank goodness (these boards have helped save my life!).  I am certain that her and her mother would have used every divorce extortion tactic known.     

[ForeverDad]

In that case, you would need to get consultations with local family law attorneys.  (Needless to say, no children or you'll be locked into 20 years of parenting chaos.)  Each state has different laws on property, support, etc.  So where you marry, live or divorce would be crucial factors to consider.  Moving across state lines could upset well-laid plans and strategies.

Some states are community property states and when a marriage ends it's an equal split.  A pre-nup would perhaps protect prior assets, but there are no guarantees, what if during the marriage the state's laws change?  Remember that there are strict rules for pre-nups, one of them is that each person needs their own attorney, none of those mail order pre-nup forms or morning-after agreements.

In most states inheritances are not marital property if kept totally separate from potentially marital accounts.

Some state require that even retirement accounts be shared to some extent based on the length of marriage, interest earned, etc.  For example, it would not be fair for one spouse to save a disproportionate portion of income and keep it all after a divorce while they had lived off the other's income.

It's one thing to be cautious and another thing to be devious.  Yes, court may not worry much about either spouse's motivations and there's nothing wrong with making wise decisions so we aren't taken advantage of but planning for a bug-out in advance just isn't in our bones.  How could we trust and be trusted if we keep one foot out the door?

[whirlpoollife]

If you have any property or investments or business, that was yours prior to the marriage that increases in value during the marriage, the increase becomes a marital asset.

Keep very accurate financial records and in your possession. Seperate credit cards, seperate accounts.

Inheritances, yes , kept seperate, are not marital property but in my case, I am spending it all, by defending it. 

Best way to not get tangled in a financial and child custody mess is to NOT get married.

Live seperatley. 

If you want children, adopt , or be a foster parent.   

[ImaFita]

Can anyone with divorce experience kindly provide any advice on how to protect assets from the grasps of a high-conflict spouse?  I am not yet married.  I figure it could be useful to anticipate what divorce maneuvers a pwBPD is likely to take.  I don't think most pwBPD have a long-term focus, so they might have a relatively weak interest in raiding 401(k)s, 529s, and Health Savings Accounts (compared to getting their hands on cash accounts).  Another strategy could be to save up a lot of "non-marital assets" prior to getting married, and then to hold these assets in passively managed accounts so that the spouse has a weak claim to both the corpus and even the returns earned during marriage.  How have these types of strategies or others played out for you?  Thanks!

Yes, just put some cash away.

A guy I used to work with found out his wife was cheating - she didn't know he'd found out.

This guy went home to his wife with a smile on his face every night, did all the right things, continued to work, etc.

Meanwhile he was stashing cold hard $$, he had $350k stashed, this was 3-4 years ago.

His kids were in the mid teens, he was waiting till they were 18, then he was going to file for a divorce.

He seemed to know what he was doing, and he absolutely hated his wife for what she did - but still went home to her with a smile.

[maxen]

Meanwhile he was stashing cold hard $$

i'm not sure how that works. in NY at least, anything you earn during the marriage is marital property, whether it goes into a joint account or an individual account (as my paychecks did).

[livednlearned]

You could always take the prenup approach, I suppose.

I understand FD's point -- why would you knowingly enter a relationship, especially a marriage, with someone who is BPD after you've been through one? That's probably more important than protecting yourself financially. I don't mean that in a bitter way, I mean it in terms of learning what drives your own dynamics.

However, after experiencing family court up close and personal like I never thought possible, there's no way I would enter a marriage contract with as much naivete as I did with N/BPDx. At the very least, I would want to have a very serious conversation about values and money.

[maxen]

At the very least, I would want to have a very serious conversation about values and money.

see i just thought that my intended would understand without it having to be pointed out very hard that once we were married we'd have obligations in regard each other that would affect our choices  ... .    :'(

[ImaFita]

Meanwhile he was stashing cold hard $$

i'm not sure how that works. in NY at least, anything you earn during the marriage is marital property, whether it goes into a joint account or an individual account (as my paychecks did).

But he could just say that he spent it, she wouldn't be aware of it if she wasn't expecting it.

Nevertheless, I never asked if it did come from the job we were on.

I was in the construction business at the time, and this guy was working for himself, sub-contracting out.

He could've just done a lot of cash jobs, he seemed to know what he was doing.

I just remember thinking - don't get married, .

[maxen]

He could've just done a lot of cash jobs, he seemed to know what he was doing.

if he's getting paid in cash, and keeping it as cash, then it could work, but if he's recording it in any way (deposits e.g.), he'd have to declare that in a divorce. that's true in NY, i imagine it'd have to be true everywhere? i mean, i hope he's successful.

[ForeverDad]

I know this goes against common sense and normal expectations but for whatever reasons many have concluded that the disordered person has experience at slipping through the legal system unscathed and the responsible reasonably normal person doesn't get any breaks from the legal system.  So how are they so slick and experienced at poor behaviors that are just a hair below the level of their actions being actionable and therefore avoid consequences?  How are we so prone to be stuck with following all the rules?

The one behaving poorly seldom gets consequences (or is seldom put "on the hook" for acting irresponsibly) and the one behaving well seldom gets credit (or seldom manages to get "off the hook" for acting responsibly).

Reminds me of a story told me some 20 years ago.  A guy in a nice car pulls up to a traffic jam but the guy behind him doesn't stop, skids along the center barrier and scrapes the entire side of his car.  Of course, he's so outraged to find out the guy's story was, "My brakes don't work well.  And I don't have insurance either."  Well, he demanded the responding officer to cart him off to jail.  The officer just responded, "He's judgment-proof... .No insurance, no money, no assets, worthless car, no point to do anything".  Over and over I got the feeling that was how my ex was seen, never held to a higher standard because they didn't want to give the acting-out person the same consequences that the reasonably-normal person would have faced and so didn't even try.