Bio-mom won't consent to counseling

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Some background to the latest craziness:  My SD12's uBPD mom lives in a house which has is actually an insulated shed.  Her dad built it for her, but never got an permits.  A few years ago, the city told him no one could live in it until they brought it up to code.   Well, they continued living in it and now the city is again telling them they have to vacate.  uBPD mom tells SD12 they are going to have to move, don't know when or where and that we (my DH and I are the ones who called the city).  BTW, my DH gets bashed/blamed for many other situations.

SD12 has never fully blended into our family.  She doesn't make herself at home the way most kids do.  My DS7 will ask for a snack/anything.   When most kids would pipe up and ask "me too", SD will just sit there.  She has to be offered.  We consider it a victory that she will actually help herself to a drink when she's thirsty.  She sort of slinks through the house.  She is completely obedient, so she never gets in trouble.  Our consequences for DS are sitting on his bed, loss of privileges, extra chores, so I don't think it's a fear issue.   My DH and I have talked with her, told her this is her home, etc.  Like many kids with 2 homes, she will go through a transition phase when she first comes over, generally comes in and just sits on the couch, one word answers.  Ask if everything is ok, she will say she's "tires, that's all." 

Well, my DH asked the uBPD ex her permission to take SD to a counselor she was seeing a few years ago.  My DH has 50/50 physical and legal custody.  Counselors won't begin treating unless both parents sign for permission, not to mention DH would be violating court order.  Of course, uBPD ex won't let DH take her.  Why?  Because.  (Power, control,  why help SD) 

DH and I have been married 4 years now.  My DS, DH and I are a family.  We want to get help to 1) get advice on how to encourage a better relationship with SD, and 2) give SD a professional 3rd party to talk with about issues like "dad getting us kicked out of our house".

I think DH and I may just go to the counselor ourselves to get advice on how to best talk with SD when we hear she's being told lies and being exposed to issues she shouldn't.  But what are the legal steps to get the court to order SD can attend counseling?

[11yearsToGo]

Some background to the latest craziness:  My SD12's uBPD mom lives in a house which has is actually an insulated shed.  Her dad built it for her, but never got an permits.  A few years ago, the city told him no one could live in it until they brought it up to code.   Well, they continued living in it and now the city is again telling them they have to vacate.  uBPD mom tells SD12 they are going to have to move, don't know when or where and that we (my DH and I are the ones who called the city).  BTW, my DH gets bashed/blamed for many other situations.

SD12 has never fully blended into our family.  She doesn't make herself at home the way most kids do.  My DS7 will ask for a snack/anything.   When most kids would pipe up and ask "me too", SD will just sit there.  She has to be offered.  We consider it a victory that she will actually help herself to a drink when she's thirsty.  She sort of slinks through the house.  She is completely obedient, so she never gets in trouble.  Our consequences for DS are sitting on his bed, loss of privileges, extra chores, so I don't think it's a fear issue.   My DH and I have talked with her, told her this is her home, etc.  Like many kids with 2 homes, she will go through a transition phase when she first comes over, generally comes in and just sits on the couch, one word answers.  Ask if everything is ok, she will say she's "tires, that's all." 

Well, my DH asked the uBPD ex her permission to take SD to a counselor she was seeing a few years ago.  My DH has 50/50 physical and legal custody.  Counselors won't begin treating unless both parents sign for permission, not to mention DH would be violating court order.  Of course, uBPD ex won't let DH take her.  Why?  Because.  (Power, control,  why help SD) 

DH and I have been married 4 years now.  My DS, DH and I are a family.  We want to get help to 1) get advice on how to encourage a better relationship with SD, and 2) give SD a professional 3rd party to talk with about issues like "dad getting us kicked out of our house".

I think DH and I may just go to the counselor ourselves to get advice on how to best talk with SD when we hear she's being told lies and being exposed to issues she shouldn't.  But what are the legal steps to get the court to order SD can attend counseling?

[Swiggle]

What exactly does the court order say about this? Does biomom have tiebreaker status or do they have to agree about medical decisions?

Some things that come to mind that you could try.

- find another counselor that will provide therapy if both parents don't agree. Of course weighing the consequence of his ex dragging you to court for doing so. I think courts see T as a good thing and may not do much if it were brought up. As other members have said to me before "it is easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.

- could go back to court for this

- have a conversation with her school counselor and ask that she talk to her

If SD is not comfortable in your home (my Step kids were like this in the beginning) it is likely that her mom is alienating her dad and you by lying and saying things to her. BPD's like to withhold from those they are closest to so maybe your SD feels like if she accepts you and your family she is betraying mom and could feel like she might get in trouble, not get mom's love or other things. She's probably in a loyalty bind no doubt, talking to a T with you DH will def help deal with this until you can get her the help she needs.

One thing I think might be a good thing in light of the lie mom said about dad getting them kicked out. Is to validate how she feels about that and then ask her if she thinks that is true, her answer might surprise you. If your aren't sure about validating I suggest the book the Power of validation, people here suggested it to me and I am down to the last few pages... .it has been really helpful.

Swiggle

[david]

You might be able to get the school counselor to recommend counseling. If the school does that the courts will follow along.

[ForeverDad]

I guess you meant both physical and custody are 50/50?  It may not be as bad as it seems, my lawyer always said courts love counseling.  Hmm, if EX continues to refuse, can DH go to court seeking custody based on mother's refusal to allow counseling?  I believe her refusal could be viewed as a Change in Circumstance, though that process could take a year or more.  He could always provide alternative solutions to the court if the court didn't want to change joint custody, he could suggest Tie-Breaker status or Decision-Making status.  Remember, he has to present himself to court as the problem solver, not the problem.

Tie-Breaker - DH asks then if refused he proceeds.

Decision-Making - DH informs and proceeds.

I don't know whether SD living in substandard housing for years is considered by the court as actionable.  (Now that they're supposedly moving it may soon become moot.)  A local lawyer could provide legal advice for your state and what works in the local court.

Or he could do the bare minimum and go to court just seeking court order or approval for counseling.  He may be able to use the the former counselor, use his choice of counselors or he may have to have a short list of counselors EX to pick one or two.  (Be aware that if a counselor backs out, moves, retires, whatever, you don't want to have to go through a court case all over again just to keep it going.

[11yearsToGo]

We live in ultra liberal CA.  Courts do basically nothing unless there is evidence of physical abuse against the child or drug abuse by the OP.  Short of such abuse, children ARE (according to the courts) better off with 50/50 PERIOD and any parent apposed to that is viewed as hostile toward the child's relationship with the OP.  We called the school counselor and he said he can't see SD because her grades are good and doesn't misbehave.  That sounded like great advice.  So thank you much.  In a different area, I think that would have been really helpful.  But our schools are as broke and impudent as the courts. 

We have decided to return to the original counselor (just DH and I) to summarize our interest and goals for counseling to see if she suggests counseling for SD and will put it in writing.  Then we will approach the court. 

It's all just so exhausting.  Mom and folks from that camp report SD as being "so unhappy", SD withdraws and fades into the background when she was such a vibrant spit fire a few years ago.  What should be a simple request for the good of HER own child and she still has to be crazy and selfish.  Really?  We know from the past that this counselor will not offer or provide treatment she doesn't feel is needed. 

Sorry... .this evolved into a vent.  We will do what we need to.  I was hoping to hear of a clever short cut.  These games are tiring at times. 

Thank you to the good advice!   And many thanks to this board. 

[11yearsToGo]

Sorry... .I didn't address the legal custody.  They must be in agreement on beginning or ending counseling.  No tie breaker status to either.  Without mom's consent, no counseling without court interference. 

[Swiggle]

I hear you that is tiring at all the games we have to play and wishing they would just be good adults and good parents. Sounds like you have a good plan in place for seeking out the original counselor. I hope your SD gets what she needs.

[david]

So if I were still married to xBPDw and I thought our child needed counseling I should talk to my wife about it. However, if I just did it without talking to her than what consequences would I have. My wife would have to go to court and show that I am doing something harmful for the child. If that couldn't be proved then what would the courts do ?

Seems like you should be able to take your child to counseling on your time. If ex doesn't agree then she doesn't have to take child on her time. Isn't that what 50/50 implies ?

My ex actually wanted counseling. She picked the counselors. The first one had issues of her own and needed counseling more then we did. Our S5 at the time even seen it.    The second one "got" ex after a few meetings and ex quickly got rid of her. The third one ex tried to have me excluded. We had a parent coordinator at the time. I went to the pc and the pc ruled that the service must include me. They refused and that was that.

By that time I had enough help from a T that I was able to help both boys without the conflict from ex.

It does get tiring at times. I've been doing this for seven plus years now.