question about my 2 yr old daughter

[Eco]

my daughter has started to spank her elmo stuffed toy and say "bad" as she hits the doll. is this normal ? should I be concerned? I don't spank I use timeouts as a consequence for bad behavior but my ex has a very bad temper and her methods of discipline are all over the place from screaming to spanking to the point of a beating rather then a spanking, she wont use timeouts consistently because it takes to much time and effort.  thanks for all opinions and advice

[Turkish]

Eco,

You are probably right that she is mirroring her mother's behavior towards her. Can you film this to possibly submit as evidence when you go back to court? What are the corporeal punishment laws where you live?

[Matt]

A couple of things to maybe consider... .

First, if you think your ex might be mistreating your daughter, you could probably find a counselor, and begin taking your daughter to see her regularly - not a quick fix, but maybe a source of support and insight over time.

You might also consider drawing your daughter out about what what she is doing - letting her express what she thinks she's doing and why... .

"You seem upset with Elmo."

":)id Elmo do something bad?"

"Why do you think Elmo did that?"

":)oes it hurt Elmo when you do that?"

[Eco]

You are probably right that she is mirroring her mother's behavior towards her. Can you film this to possibly submit as evidence when you go back to court? What are the corporeal punishment laws where you live?

good idea I will do that, im not sure about the law, im in ga so I will have to check on that.

First, if you think your ex might be mistreating your daughter, you could probably find a counselor, and begin taking your daughter to see her regularly - not a quick fix, but maybe a source of support and insight over time.

You might also consider drawing your daughter out about what what she is doing - letting her express what she thinks she's doing and why... .

"You seem upset with Elmo."

":)id Elmo do something bad?"

"Why do you think Elmo did that?"

":)oes it hurt Elmo when you do that?"

great ideas matt, thanks

[momtara]

Good idea to ask her those questions. Sometimes kids just go through weird phrases. Both my toddlers in the last week have told me cheerfully, "I hate you."  I'm not sure where they got it, but I think they just want a reaction. I asked where they heard that and they didn't know. They haven't said it again since. They are both in school, so one never knows. But if she is doing that a lot, it is odd and certainly you should try to get to the bottom of it.

[allibaba]

my daughter has started to spank her elmo stuffed toy and say "bad" as she hits the doll. is this normal ? should I be concerned?

Neither my ex or I (or his daycare lady) spank our 3 year old or use extreme discipline.  My son is going through a stage where he regularly tells me that things are "bad" or "you are bad" and he will occasionally say something or someone needs to be spanked or needs a timeout. 

... .just wanted to give an example of another kid who I am pretty sure isn't exposed to any extreme methods of discipline who is doing something similar. 

Obviously you have real concerns regarding your ex and her behavior with your daughter and you have gotten great advice already on ways to start addressing it.

[Matt]

I think the challenge, with kids of all ages, is to draw them out - get them to talk - without grilling them like a prosecutor.

"Reflective listening" can be verbal - like if the child says "Elmo is bad!" and you say, "It sounds like Elmo did something wrong." and then let her talk more;  or it can be a response to non-verbal communication, like if the child is obviously upset but hasn't said anything and you say, "You seem upset." or "You seem a little sad."

The idea is to just reflect back what the child is communicating, without adding too much of your own stuff, to encourage her to talk more.  The more she talks, the more she accepts whatever is going on - accepts that something bad has happened, or that she is confused, for example - and the more insight you get into what is going on with her.

I find it difficult to do - I'm a guy and we like to solve other peoples' problems so it's hard not to respond with solutions when what the child really needs is to process her feelings and perceptions.

[allibaba]

I think the challenge, with kids of all ages, is to draw them out - get them to talk - without grilling them like a prosecutor.

"Reflective listening" can be verbal - like if the child says "Elmo is bad!" and you say, "It sounds like Elmo did something wrong." and then let her talk more;  or it can be a response to non-verbal communication, like if the child is obviously upset but hasn't said anything and you say, "You seem upset." or "You seem a little sad."

The idea is to just reflect back what the child is communicating, without adding too much of your own stuff, to encourage her to talk more.  The more she talks, the more she accepts whatever is going on - accepts that something bad has happened, or that she is confused, for example - and the more insight you get into what is going on with her.

I find it difficult to do - I'm a guy and we like to solve other peoples' problems so it's hard not to respond with solutions when what the child really needs is to process her feelings and perceptions.

Great advice Matt... .I am a woman and always trying to find answers too  . 

Learning not to do this with my son has actually gone a long way in adding to my personal growth in adult relationships as well (with my mom, with my ex, and with the man I am dating). 

I know its not just my personality to find solutions to everything... .I grew up or, at a minimum, cultivated some mighty unhealthy levels of codependency in my BPD relationship.  Its hard to overwrite the bad programming 

But learning better ways means more healthy wee ones.

[livednlearned]

Chances are your ex was spanked as a child. It generates a lot of shame  :'(

Shame and Implicit Self-Concept in Women With Borderline Personality Disorder

Your D is going to need a lot of help working through feelings of shame if that's how she's being treated. With a BPD mother, I would assume that what D is doing to Elmo is likely being done to her. Yes, kids can go through phases, but better to err on the side of caution.

Corporal punishment is legal where I live (in the South). You can even hit your kid with a belt  :'( and some of the schools in different counties still paddle the kids.

[Matt]

I think taking the legal route - either through the police or through family court - probably isn't best at this point.

First, you have no good way to know what happens at the other parent's house.  Even if your daughter says, "Mom hits me.", since she's only two, that may not be taken as proof.

And you will look extreme if you go that route without much information.

Better to focus on how to help your daughter process whatever is happening, and watch closely to see how she is doing.

If you can find a counselor for your daughter, and if the counselor gains your daughter's trust, then over time the counselor may be able to find out more, and the counselor will act on the child's behalf;  if the counselor believes that abuse is happening, she is probably required to report it.

[Eco]

Chances are your ex was spanked as a child. It generates a lot of shame  cry

according to my ex she was beat quite a bit by her grandfather, he raised her because her mom was a drug addict and her father was absent and unknown.

Your D is going to need a lot of help working through feelings of shame if that's how she's being treated. With a BPD mother, I would assume that what D is doing to Elmo is likely being done to her. Yes, kids can go through phases, but better to err on the side of caution.

Corporal punishment is legal where I live (in the South). You can even hit your kid with a belt  cry and some of the schools in different counties still paddle the kids.

im sure she is because my ex told me a couple of months ago that she had to smack my daughter on the bottem to let her know she was serious when my daughter started to run into the street. my ex doesn't watch her kids closely enough so things like this have happened in the past, when we were on vacation 2 years ago her daughter whos 4 now almost fell over the balcony and I had to rush to get her. I was cooking and she was texting on the phone and I happened to look over and there she was hanging over the balcony, I was furious at my ex for that. so I constantly worry about my daughter not being watched close enough.

I think taking the legal route - either through the police or through family court - probably isn't best at this point.

First, you have no good way to know what happens at the other parent's house.  Even if your daughter says, "Mom hits me.", since she's only two, that may not be taken as proof.

And you will look extreme if you go that route without much information.

Better to focus on how to help your daughter process whatever is happening, and watch closely to see how she is doing.

If you can find a counselor for your daughter, and if the counselor gains your daughter's trust, then over time the counselor may be able to find out more, and the counselor will act on the child's behalf;  if the counselor believes that abuse is happening, she is probably required to report it.

I agree matt, again great suggestions.

while I don't judge people that spank kids I just don't agree with it. i was spanked as a child and had the belt used on me by my dad and it did nothing but cause me to be resentful towards my dad. it certainly didn't teach me about consequences in life and i became even more rebellious later in my teens. I have custody of my 11 yr old son from a deferent relationship and ive never spanked him and hes well behaved ( i will say that he has become more hard headed and stubborn this year but i will blame hormones for that  )

I don't feel like i would be sending a good message to my kids about consequences by spanking them, when i do something wrong i don't expect to get hit over it but i do expect consequences and because of that i try not to do anything wrong. I feel its no different for kids they should expect consequences when they deliberately do something wrong but not fear that they will be hit by the ones that say they love them or anyone for that matter. im not saying im right or wrong just my 2 cents

again thanks for all the advice and support  from everyone

[Matt]

I'm about 99% anti-spanking.  I don't know if it's always the wrong thing to do, but I did my best to find other ways to deal with my kids - now all in high school or older so it's no longer an issue.  I don't regret it or wish I had been "tougher" - you can be strong and give  kids the guidance they need without spanking, in my humble opinion.

[Turkish]

I'm about 99% anti-spanking.  I don't know if it's always the wrong thing to do, but I did my best to find other ways to deal with my kids - now all in high school or older so it's no longer an issue.  I don't regret it or wish I had been "tougher" - you can be strong and give  kids the guidance they need without spanking, in my humble opinion.

I lean towards this. I'm an intimidatg figure anyway, so the stentorian voice carries a lot of weight. I got S5 out of lying to me about hitting his sister, by not punishing him when he loses control, but saying I'd punish him worse if he lied to me. Now he admits it if I rush into the room and ask what happened. D2 I can stop doing things with a quiet dissapproving word. She doesn't have the emotional control issues like her brother. Kids are different.

Our stipulation forbids spanking, though it's legal in California. Their mom lost control and violated it once already. I didn't point it out to her at the time because she admitted it to me (she's aware of her emotional dysregulation issues).