No Win situation

[Pou]

My wife has pretty severe Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).  It is to the point that she is just plain sociopathic.  What I can not figure out is what does she have to gain out of all these nonsense that she created.  The only thing that she persistently done is to devalue me, gaslighting and portray me to be the opposite of who I am to our friends, relatives and my kids.  I suspect that she may be having an affair at work, but honestly, I can careless about that.  It is the constant abusive and mental torture that I go through everyday from her is unbearable.  I thought about divorcing and end it so I can move on.  But then I educated myself with the literature out there and I am afraid... very afraid to be taking steps to divorce a NPD.  I have three kids and there is no doubt that dealing with a NPD in divorce will bankrupt our family.  On top of that, there is no knowing what kind of crazy stuff will come out of her mouth and that immediately led me to imagine the worst.  My wife is certifiable sociopath... .let me put it this way, it just happened that I got to know a marriage that is also have a similar issue.  My wife has zero regard for my wellbeing, let that be mental and/or physical ... .it perplexes me that why would a human being decided to marry someone and turn so vial?  I mean how can anyone be happy and not to care about others?  let alone a spouse?  I see something really damaged in her psychy and there may have been deep buried childhood trauma that I am unable to unearth ... .when she behaves like that ... .and the expression that illogically surfaces on her face, something looks really wrong in her past and now she is pinning me down to make me pay for her suffering from when she was a child.  That is the feeling that I experience everytime she went about to do her damages.  I can not understand it and I will never be able to forgive her, but I will move on.  The damages and pains that she has cost me ... .she can not repay me in this lifetime.  The best way will be for me to heal is to move on and have nothing to do with her ... .and yet, we have 3 kids together.  How is that possible?  Knowing she is a NPD, this makes leaving even more difficult ... .she had freaked out once before when I said I would leave and the lies she made up to the police now made me realize how much "fear" for me leaving her is in her world.  Yet, she makes no effort in making this relationship better and if any, she has intentionally causing lots of pain and harm ... .so why stay in a relationship like this?  I just don't get it.  I realize that sometimes in life, it is not for me to solve the mystery ... .I just want out without blowing my kids' future apart.  Right now it is impossible ... .I don't know what to do.  Episodes of insanity is constant and gas lighting seems to be her strength.  I gave up posting on this board for a while... .just too much seemingly happening all the time.  I am looking for words of wisdom... .Thank you.   

[ForeverDad]

There is light at the end of the dark scary tunnel.  It's dim now, but it is there.  You do have a future.

Here's a perspective about the children... .  What do the children see?  A dysfunctional parental relationship.  One parent a raging, out-of-control controller and tyrant.  The other parent an appeaser, Whipping Boy, muddy doormat, or all of that.  There's no way the children aren't impacted.  Really, they don't know what a reasonably normal home environment is.  Which is why nearly all here who deal with someone who refuses to improve accept that the only way for things to get better is to unwind the relationship.  Yes, you have children.  Yes, she might get majority time, at least at first.  Mine did, simply due to her gender as Mother.  But over time I got more parenting time and more custodial authority.  But even things ddn't improve over the years as they did for me, I still would have done it because that was the only way my son could (1) live at least part of his life in a reasonably normal home safe from rants, raging and unreason and (2) see a better, empowered example from his reasonably normal Father.

Here's a perspective about you... .  Things won't get better if you stay.  You've had years to try to make it better and nothing worked.  Your spouse wants you to feel weak and powerless to take your life back.  Everything she has done has been to overwhelm your boundaries and sap your energy to make a stand for what you know is right.  She has a strategy, she may be disordered but she's not dumb.  So you need a strategy too.  You need support too - trusted friends and family, counselors, lawyer and resourceful peer support such as here.

So you've gotten yourself informed over the past 4 years.  Good, that's a start.  You can't succeed if you're swinging in the dark, so to speak, against an opponent.  I suggest you do what I and others have done, a proven strategy.  We all sensed or knew our spouse would wage a War of Disinformation when we stood up for ourselves and the children.  False allegations of all sorts to all imaginable people and agencies.  As bad as you can prove your spouse is, your spouse will try to allege that you're even worse.  The problem is that they can slip on their Mask of Seeming Normalcy, even targeted victimhood, and be so convincing, so emotionally overwhelming to the unwary and inexperienced.

So do as I did and as others did, Document everything you can about your spouse's poor behaviors.  Once I accepted that my spouse was no longer listening to me and she was on a Mission - Her and Her Child Against the World and Me - then I was convinced I needed to Document (1) that I was the Target, not her, and (2) that I was not the one aggressively misbehaving.  So I recorded.  I happen to live in a one party state and I could record without fear of legal consequences, but even if I lived in a two-party recording state I still would have recorded for self-protection.  I feared being falsely accused and possibly even imprisoned more than getting my hands slapped for recording.  (By the way, I've been here for some 9 years and I haven't heard of even a handful of members who got into more trouble than being told to "stop recording".)

Back then I didn't have a smart phone with a camera.  I didn't have the ability to order USB pen-cams that not only record but also write too.  So I got a voice recorder that held a few hours of recorded conversations before it needed to be downloaded and archived in a very safe place.  I ended up with three recorders in case one was full or another had dead batteries.  I never waved it in her face, I don't think she ever saw them.  I kept it on the down-low.  I made sure I knew when and where I made the recordings.  I also recorded more than just her rages, I had to record beforehand to show I wasn't framing her or purposely triggering her to rage.  But it enabled me to not be legally crushed when we separated, I had proof it wasn't me making death threats or treating our son callously.  (I did try to focus on recording her rants and rages, I tried not to focus on recording the children since they can be influenced and it could be a sour taste for the authorities.)

Most of what I recorded never saw the light of day.  I also knew the courts don't want to get sidetracking into recordings.  But I needed to know I could defend myself, such as with other agencies, because I knew she would make false allegations to make me look worse than her.  And she did, over and over, each one a little different from the ones that failed before.  But I survived and in time it was her 'credibility' that suffered.

[Pou]

There is light at the end of the dark scary tunnel.  It's dim now, but it is there.  You do have a future.

Thank you so much for your advise.  I have to tell you that it provides hope.  All my life I have been too rational ... .and logical.  I could not afford not to.  I grew up poor and because I was first generation immigrant, I was separated from my parents for a short time and so I have this FEAR that my kids would have to go through the same thing.  Unfortunately, ever since I married my wife, she has alienated my parents (dad deceased 4 years ago) and my children from getting to know my side of family.  My NPDw makes up craziest things and she actually would try to deceive my own sisters ... .very weird behavior, because my NPDw actually think that they won't talk to me about her accusations about me (just because she told them to keep it confidential).  My NPDw proceed to engage my daughter and son friends' parents and started to make up stuff that really other parents are uncomfortable to hear and really all they want, is for their kids spend time with to their friends that have a "normal" family.  Through the years, my NPDw scare away my kids' friends' parents and now the only friend that also has NPD.  I fear my wife, because she is not just just Narcissistic, I suspect that she also has Asperg.  Because her approaches are just sociopathic and no empathy at all ... .I noticed this when my dad passed and he was in ICU for 3 weeks before he passed.  I wanted my dad to see my kids for the very last Thanksgiving, my wife refused and said that I want to jeopardize my kids' health in hospital.  I told her it will be quick and with doctors' permission at the hospital (by the way, my dad had heard failure).  If not, my sister can watch the kids while she at least see my dad. She start accusing me that I am a bad father wanting to put my kids in harms' way.  So I spent that Thanksgiving alone with my mom and my sister's family visiting my dad in ICU.  My NPDw kept my kids away and my dad passed a week later.  When I was in mourning, she basically ignored me and looked at me with this strange look and with this glee look on her face and when attended my dad's service, she kept my son away and through out it, she had this strange smile... .it was so weird.  I couldn't understand it.  When her dad passed, I took my personal days to help her, visited her dad and helped them with making decisions and funeral arrangements.  Beyond NPDw, something is really wrong ... .she is high functioning ... .and she can turn on tears and pretend how tormented she has been by me on a dime.  But she didn't cry even at her own dad's funeral, while she wore a strange smile through out my dad's funeral.  :)o PDs do this?  So it led to wonder and trying to figure out what is going on.  She is so immature that she essentially raged in front of my mom who is 82 years old and blocking her from getting acquainted with my children when she visits.  My mom has severe mobility issue, so she has sit down most of the time.  My wife essentially physically held on to my baby daughter so she could never have a chance to get acquainted with her.  She refuses to visit my mother and when it was my mom's 80th birthday, my sister's family came all the way from the other side of the coast to visit, my wife only allow us to stay over night, got there in the late afternoon and left around noon the next day.  If anything deviates from what she want, she rages and starts to make up stuff to accuse me.  I don't mean to go off the tangent ... .but I want you to see what type of a person that I am dealing with here ... .my observations tell me that she is: 1) narcissistic; 2) with severe personality disorder; 3) Asperg like; 4) Sociopath.  It is her way, or she will accuse you the worst things possible.  For example, she never ever initiates intimacy ... .she treats it very mechanical.  If shall initiate it at the "wrong" time in her mind, she rages on and start screaming and calling me a "rapist" and she grabs the phone and threaten to call the "police".  it got me all confused and flustered, because I never thought a married couple would treat eachother like this.  It was beyond me ... .it was impossible for me to understand her reactions, very hurtful and very abusive to me.  So we didn't have much intimacy after our first child, weird thing was that our second child came really easily and the third one literally came after a single event of intimacy in 2 years.  Now I do not initiate and it has been almost 3 years that we don't share any intimacy.  Now I am out of the FOG, I get creeps when I hear her voice change to sweet and feeling ill, because I know behind that ... there is the technique of manipulation.  Yes, for my own sanity and my kids' well being, I need to leave.  But in reality, knowing how skillful she is in manipulating the system, it will be a battle that everyone will lose.  I can handle the bad times, I have been through it when I was a child... .but I can not let my kids go through it.  I agree with you with what you said ... .but I am dealing a very crafted and high functioning (asperg like) individual.  She literally lies to her own mother, my mother and my sister, while I was sitting in the next room... .while they can easily confirm the fact with me (which my sister did later), it is so sociopathic strange, that honestly ... .at times, I am afraid to take on extra life insurance.  Foreverdad ... .I am in a dilemma, if I initiate the DV ... .my NPDw will wage a war all out that she will not care if it will hurt my kids and through her manipulation, she will relentlessly brain wash my kids' brains that it would be my fault.  She is doing that right now while we are together... .my daughter is getting confused and she thinks that my NPDw is protecting her from seeing my mom because my NPDw claims that my mom fed my daughter allergens (peanuts), which never happened.  I don't know what your ex was like ... .but it would be helpful if you could share some qualities about her with me.  As right now, the risk is too high for me to make that leap ... .if my kids should suffer as a result of my NPDw's war of retaliation, I would not know how I can live with myself.  Financially we would be ruined and I can not have my kids gone through the hardship that I did when I was a child.  Your words really help, because I know that we share similar experiences and I will keep what you said in mind.  

[ForeverDad]

Until now you've been playing her Blame Game using her rules and losing terribly.  You can't hope to 'win' when she makes all the rules and rewrites them anytime you come close to winning.  A couple illustrations come to mind... .

In football, soccer or hockey, imagine playing against a team that moved the goalpost every time your team got close to scoring a goal.

Remember the old movie from 30 years ago, War Games?  The computer could not find a solution so finally concluded, "The only winning move is not to play."

Court may not be perfect, but it is much better than your spouse's rules, terms and conditions.  And it has the Authority you lack, all you have to do is have a strategy (or strategies) to use its Authority to limit her ability to sabotage, control and create chaos.

[Pou]

Until now you've been playing her Blame Game using her rules and losing terribly.  You can't hope to 'win' when she makes all the rules and rewrites them anytime you come close to winning.  A couple illustrations come to mind... .

In football, soccer or hockey, imagine playing against a team that moved the goalpost every time your team got close to scoring a goal.

Remember the old movie from 30 years ago, War Games?  The computer could not find a solution so finally concluded, "The only winning move is not to play."

Court may not be perfect, but it is much better than your spouse's rules, terms and conditions.  And it has the Authority you lack, all you have to do is have a strategy (or strategies) to use its Authority to limit her ability to sabotage, control and create chaos.

Very true.  It is no win situation for me right now, feeling like the computer.  What paralyze me is the fear to throw my kids into the unknown and knowing my NPDw, she has no fear in destroying everyone involved just to get her way (and she doesn't even know if that her "way" is better and she doesn't care at all).  Although narcissistic, it is hard for me to believe that she blatantly over look logic ... .I guess that is where PD and Asperg like traits come in.   She responds no societal pressure of what is right by making up her own rules and logics, and then speak as if her illusions are the truth, all done with emotion and with conviction... .it is quite nutty, to be honest.  And yet she climbs in the corporate ladder and one has to wonder how many NPDs are running around the corporate world.  I have no solution for this madness at the moment... .I appreciate your words of experience and wisdom, Foreverdad, because it does make me feel better knowing someone understands what I am going through. 

[livednlearned]

Hi Pou,

It's not an easy decision to make. And yes, divorcing someone who has a high-conflict personality, who will recruit negative advocates and target you mercilessly -- this is not easy. What she does in the marriage she will do in the divorce.

My husband is also very narcissistic. He is a former trial attorney, and like you, I feared he would annihilate me in court. He used his knowledge of law to intimate me for years, his favorite threat being, "no judge will believe a word you say in court when I'm done with you." I was terrified that I would lose custody of my son.

I not only have full custody of my son, but the judge terminated N/BPDx's visitation. After four years of constant legal battles (more than 60 filings), it ended.

It's the best decision I made, and obviously I can say that because things worked out for me. I had the fortune of having an excellent L who genuinely cares about me. My judge was also good, a chance thing that I had no control over. And I was meticulous in my documentation.

I also managed to be a step ahead of my ex every inch of this difficult path. I got off to a rocky start because I didn't know about BPD when I divorced him, but I feel I was genuinely blessed in those early days, and despite making some big errors, mostly due to my own fears and shortcomings (ie. afraid of being assertive), I somehow managed to land intact, and my son too.

Your fear of going bankrupt is valid. However, if your wife accuses you falsely of child molestation or domestic violence, you're going to end up in a law suit one way or another. Do you feel she is capable of doing this? If so, then start thinking about how to protect your finances. Put a plan together and get creative. There is always more than one solution to every problem. Sit down and think about whether you are driven by fear or facts. Get clear about the facts. Get clear about the fears.

When I started to work with a lawyer, I learned how much of my fears were based on ignorance of the law. My ex filled my head with so much junk it took me a while to realize I had allowed myself to be hoodwinked. Don't let that happen to you -- stop focusing on whether your ex gaslights you, and start focusing on why you allow yourself to be gaslit.

If you worry that your wife will smear your name in your community, call a group of people together prior to announcing what you want to do -- if it's divorce. Sit them down and tell them that you are leaving to protect yourself and the kids. You cannot control whose side they will take, but at least you get ahead of the message. People who are easily persuaded will not care about the facts, only on their own interpretation of events.

You are not a victim here, Pou. It feels that way when you've been married to someone like this, but it's false. You have a lot of resources, intelligence, abilities. If you are an immigrant who has built something for yourself, you are more than capable of solving this. You are resilient and resourceful and strong.

I am sure there are spouses -- whether ASPD or NPD -- who are extremely difficult, perhaps vile. However, I experienced firsthand how my own perceptions changed when the divorce shone sunlight on my ex. The same man who instilled so much fear and dread in me appeared pathetic and pitiful after 4 years. He is the same man he has always been. It is me who has grown. This is the same man whom I thought would kill himself and then my child during a full-blown psychotic episode while the two were in N/BPDx's home during visitation.

This is the same man who worked for decades as a trial lawyer -- his strength was standing before a judge and persuading the court about anything. But he fell apart under the scrutiny, and despite being given more chances than I felt he deserved, he lost everything.

I am still paying back the lawyer, and I will for a while. I don't regret a penny I've spent. Investing in my mental health and my son's opportunity to grow up in a safe and stable home is the best money I've ever spent.

[Pou]

Livednlearned, thank you for sharing your experience.  I will filed it in my head.  At some point, I feel like the choice won't be mine to make.  Another reason that I am very hesitant is that society reversely discriminate against men in this type of setting.  For example, in one of my recent post.  My 2 year daughter accidentally dialed 911.  The police came, my wife answered the door and said that was an accident.  The police left and only came back again to check on her.  Meanwhile, I could be the victim in that 911 call.  The police didn't say, "can I see everyone in the house is ok?".  I also had an episode where my wife didn't like the idea that after we spent 10 days with her family in Cali for xmas and all I asked was if we could visit my mother and my sister (3 hours of drive away).  We had an argument.  She went to airport to pick up her mother and six hours later she went to file a false police complaint about me strangling her (funny thing is that little red mark on her neck went away almost immediately after she filed the report, stayed long enough for the picture).  I asked the police about the red mark that went away and told them that she was away from home for hours, I have no idea how she got that mark.  She sometimes get physically violent and she actually elbowed my mouth that day ... .I didn't mind much, because I am a larger person and I grew up with 2 older sisters.  So I am used to be self restrained when comes to this type of stuff with females, I guess my mom and my sisters taught me well.  Because of my injury, she also got into trouble.  The difference is that the judge put a bail on me and let her go free.  She bailed me out and we had to essentially work together, but she was lucky that she did because if I get hold of an attorney that night, things will be very different today.  DM charges are very serious.  I have never ever gotten into a fight with anyone in my life after I turned 14. I got into a fight when I was 13 and that was the only fight i ever had and got my ass kicked by a 17 year old.  I was around age of 40 and never ever gotten in trouble with law enforcement and never stepped a foot into police station.  The fact that I was arrested because my wife falsely accuse me of something I am completely opposite of... .honestly, it devastated me at that time.  I have first experience that law does favor woman ... .and probably for the good reason.  But for PDs, this is great opportunity for them to abuse the rules and the law ... .and they have no shame in doing it.  It is very sociopathic... .especially very visible for the narcissists with PDs.  Also, keep in mind my NPDw has ASPD like characteristics... .when they are in that mindset, they can be very very destructive and to the extend of self destructive.  I am pretty sure that if we go down the route of divorce, bankruptcy will be in the picture.  I am ok with living minimal, but how do I take care of my kids?  But then again, this may not be within my control soon.  I guess in a way, I am preping myself my the worst case scenario and try to be as ready as possible.    She has already started to build her support against me ... .and it is getting ridiculous.  Because she is going after parents who my kids go to school with.  One of my daughter's friend's mom and her clicked and so far they have been raging war against both of their spouses.  I used wanted to have my family work so badly... .i bent over backwards for her and only to realize that she hits back harder.  So I try to be firm, but then she just walk all over the boundary anyway.  No emotional response, I guess that is the difference between a Borderline and a Narcissist.  She only cry on painting me black and then when she is done, her face and demeanor switches right back as if she always had that poker face.  I asked myself every second of the day, how did I miss that all the years I dated her.  I notice that something is very pathological about her approaches and I am not looking to win here, I am just looking to survive and keep minimal damages to my kids.  Thank you for sharing your experience and encouragement.  I will keep them close to my head.

[livednlearned]

At some point, I feel like the choice won't be mine to make.  Another reason that I am very hesitant is that society reversely discriminate against men in this type of setting.  For example, in one of my recent post.  My 2 year daughter accidentally dialed 911.  The police came, my wife answered the door and said that was an accident.  The police left and only came back again to check on her.  Meanwhile, I could be the victim in that 911 call.  The police didn't say, "can I see everyone in the house is ok?"

This is something that can be checked factually. If you are in the US, each state has different laws about how police respond to allegations of domestic violence. Some states (most) are mandatory arrest. Meaning, they will arrest someone no matter what. Some are dual arrest. Meaning, they will arrest both. Police also follow a decision tree when they arrive. The criteria they follow are based on who called, whether either party is abusing drugs or alcohol, whether a third party called (public disturbance), whether one party is behaving aggressively, how the children respond, whether there are fire arms present.

In some states, the party who calls is statistically more likely to receive a favorable ruling. But you have to do the research and figure out how it works where you live. You had one experience and it didn't go well. Is that characteristic of how all calls will go? You can call domestic violence hotlines and ask if there are any advocates for male victims of violence.

Because of my injury, she also got into trouble.  The difference is that the judge put a bail on me and let her go free.  She bailed me out and we had to essentially work together, but she was lucky that she did because if I get hold of an attorney that night, things will be very different today.  DM charges are very serious.

 

Yes, and as you have learned, you had a close encounter during marriage. What is going to stop her from doing this again while you are married? Waiting until it happens again is playing with fire. This is the same thing my T, and the people in my group therapy would say to me for a year. I was playing with fire. I kept arguing why it was important that I stay (to be safe) and yet I kept reporting this awful stories, where I was fearful. It makes no sense except to us, and only because we are paralyzed by fear.

I have first experience that law does favor woman ... .and probably for the good reason.

You might have experience with the law favoring the person who filed the charges. It's important to check into this. You can call a lawyer and ask.

It's important to work with facts. Yes, it is true that there is a bias toward women. And yes, it is true that women with PDs may also manipulate and abuse the law, and therefore abuse you. But I am female, and did not receive partial treatment. And my ex is male and he practiced legal abuse -- words the judge used.

If you want to scare yourself, there is certainly nothing stopping you. You will find all kinds of horror stories. But women who are victims of domestic violence tell themselves similar stories. It's why some states have the laws that they do.

I can't emphasize enough how important it is to figure out the facts so you have a plan, instead of waiting until the inevitable happens. I saw the hammer coming down on a Friday -- my ex canceled one of our joint credit cards and they notified me. I had a full plan in place if he did anything to our finances. This was after 4 years watching my world get smaller and more frightening. For some reason, the finances were my threshold. Being locked out of my home, having things thrown at me, the verbal and emotional abuse, the drinking -- I tolerated all of that. But meanwhile had a plan, very well researched as though I was planning for an expedition. I knew exactly what would make me leave, even though that incident, looking back, was a bit irrational.

But it helped me stay ahead of N/BPDx the entire time. I think it's the ace in your sleeve -- if you are going to play with fire, know what you're doing, and when you're going to say it's enough.

Otherwise, you bring the full thing down on your head.

[Pou]

Livenlearned and Foreverdad, I can not say enough how important your words are to me. Feeling very isolated in my situation, almost no one to talk to.  Most people do not get the irrationality involved in PDs and it is hard for people who never have lived through it to actually get it.  Therefore, I extremely appreciate your input and advice.  Livenlearned, you said about the credit card pushed you over to take action and you were ready.  I hope that I will be ready when I am there with the tipping point.  Honestly, I feel very beat up at the moment and I am definitely not at my 100%.  Somedays, feeling like just disappear from all these craziness, not suicidal, just paralyzed.  Both of your replies have lots wisdom for me to think about, absorb, and adjust my life to what will ultimately make most sense for me.  Fear is definitely a big part of the reason that I am paralyzed.  I just could not bring myself to alter my 3 little kids' life so drastically ... .albeit the environment is not ideal, but if I just take the brunt of the heat, then they wont have to exposed to the negatives.  Thank you two for writing what you wrote, it means alot.  I am paralyzed by my situation and really needed some good perspectives from people who have gone through it. 

[ForeverDad]

Fear is definitely a big part of the reason that I am paralyzed.  I just could not bring myself to alter my 3 little kids' life so drastically ... .albeit the environment is not ideal, but if I just take the brunt of the heat, then they wont have to exposed to the negatives. ... .  I am paralyzed by my situation and really needed some good perspectives from people who have gone through it.

I wrote above that the example you are providing the children is not a good one over the long term.  Yes, you are "taking the brunt of the heat" but that's not a good strategy long term.  They need to see at least one parent providing a strong positive example.  Here's a quote from years ago... .

This is a example that has been repeated millions of times in millions of families.  While the specifics may not apply directly in your case, the general pattern possibly does:

Little son/daughter sees parents screaming and fighting all the time, maybe both aggressive against each other, or maybe just one fighting and the other one taking it passively.  Maybe it's directed at the kids too.  The poor little innocent kids either see abuse or are abused and they tell themselves, 'When I grow up I'll never do that to my spouse or to my kids or let my kids see/hear that.'

Well, guess what, the child grows up and does just what the parents did.  That's the example they grew up with.  That's how an abused person can become an abuser years later without even realizing it.  From abused to abuser.

I've talked with some parents who had bad tempers and they admitted their own parents were that way too.  Yet it was so hard, so very hard for them to realize the connection and to fight the urge to vent without self-control.

Many (but of course not all) adult problems seem to have roots in childhood.  Our basic personality is being formed in those early years.  I don't say this to add or remove blame to anyone, but just knowing that sometimes events in childhood have serious repercussions years later may help you to not feel so bad about yourself.  You are worth the effort to get better!

The point is, not to point blame in the past, but rather to move forward and point to solutions for the future.  Your future is your responsibility, hopefully a more and more positive one.

This is not to say your children will grow up to be controllers or abusers.  Or grow up to subconsciously seek out dysfunctional relationships and be passive targets like you have been.  These are only heightened risks.  But still, issues to ponder.

[livednlearned]

Livenlearned and Foreverdad, I can not say enough how important your words are to me. Feeling very isolated in my situation, almost no one to talk to.  Most people do not get the irrationality involved in PDs and it is hard for people who never have lived through it to actually get it.  Therefore, I extremely appreciate your input and advice.  Livenlearned, you said about the credit card pushed you over to take action and you were ready.  I hope that I will be ready when I am there with the tipping point.  Honestly, I feel very beat up at the moment and I am definitely not at my 100%.  Somedays, feeling like just disappear from all these craziness, not suicidal, just paralyzed.  Both of your replies have lots wisdom for me to think about, absorb, and adjust my life to what will ultimately make most sense for me.  Fear is definitely a big part of the reason that I am paralyzed.  I just could not bring myself to alter my 3 little kids' life so drastically ... .albeit the environment is not ideal, but if I just take the brunt of the heat, then they wont have to exposed to the negatives.  Thank you two for writing what you wrote, it means alot.  I am paralyzed by my situation and really needed some good perspectives from people who have gone through it. 

You do not have to make any decisions right now that have serious consequences. That is sometimes what also paralyzes us -- not just the fear, but the fear that we have to make a decision. But what you really need to do is gather information. Gathering information is different than making the decision. I understand how beaten down you feel, I really do. It's such a burden to carry, especially with kids involved. Be gentle with yourself, and do as much as you can.

Consultations are often $50 to $200 for half an hour or hour, depending on where you live. Go in with a pad of a paper and questions, and write down the answers. You do not have to retain them, which is where the expense lies. You can just shop around, and ask them your questions, and ask them to walk you through their strategies. Each will have a different approach, different experience.

Once you find the energy to gather information, you may find yourself motivated to do more. You can do small things, careful things: get a credit card in your name only. Get a post office box where you can receive confidential information. Stop putting money in your 401K and divert it to a separate account (if that's what a financial advisor recommends). Or not -- whatever you feel safe doing.

Maybe get a storage unit or safe deposit box where you can keep confidential information or keys, important documents. Photocopy items you know you might need if things go badly. If you think your wife will file criminal charges against you, find the name of a criminal attorney and keep a business card somewhere you can access if needed.

Preparing for the worst, hoping for the best.

Sometimes, the destructiveness with which pwBPD approach the abandonment is their downfall, especially if you meticulously document and have the emotional health to focus on what is best for the kids. Which is ultimately what the courts care about.

LnL

[Pou]

Fear is definitely a big part of the reason that I am paralyzed.  I just could not bring myself to alter my 3 little kids' life so drastically ... .albeit the environment is not ideal, but if I just take the brunt of the heat, then they wont have to exposed to the negatives. ... .  I am paralyzed by my situation and really needed some good perspectives from people who have gone through it.

I wrote above that the example you are providing the children is not a good one over the long term.  Yes, you are "taking the brunt of the heat" but that's not a good strategy long term.  They need to see at least one parent providing a strong positive example.  Here's a quote from years ago... .

This is a example that has been repeated millions of times in millions of families.  While the specifics may not apply directly in your case, the general pattern possibly does:

Little son/daughter sees parents screaming and fighting all the time, maybe both aggressive against each other, or maybe just one fighting and the other one taking it passively.  Maybe it's directed at the kids too.  The poor little innocent kids either see abuse or are abused and they tell themselves, 'When I grow up I'll never do that to my spouse or to my kids or let my kids see/hear that.'

Well, guess what, the child grows up and does just what the parents did.  That's the example they grew up with.  That's how an abused person can become an abuser years later without even realizing it.  From abused to abuser.

I've talked with some parents who had bad tempers and they admitted their own parents were that way too.  Yet it was so hard, so very hard for them to realize the connection and to fight the urge to vent without self-control.

Many (but of course not all) adult problems seem to have roots in childhood.  Our basic personality is being formed in those early years.  I don't say this to add or remove blame to anyone, but just knowing that sometimes events in childhood have serious repercussions years later may help you to not feel so bad about yourself.  You are worth the effort to get better!

The point is, not to point blame in the past, but rather to move forward and point to solutions for the future.  Your future is your responsibility, hopefully a more and more positive one.

This is not to say your children will grow up to be controllers or abusers.  Or grow up to subconsciously seek out dysfunctional relationships and be passive targets like you have been.  These are only heightened risks.  But still, issues to ponder.

Foreverdad, I do worry about the above scenario as well.  I just want my kids grow up to be healthy and happy ... and no strange and dysfunctional thoughts and life.  Point well taken.  Thanks.