What is the safest way to tell him I want a divorce?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I want out. I have been caretaking him since I was 19 and am now 49 (Stop Caretaking by Margalis Fjelstad was immensely helpful) .  He has been in steady decline since having children 18 years ago.  I Felt guilty and responsible for his happiness. He was diagnosed about two years ago. Talking about BPD is taboo.  He is on three different meds which I think are for depression, anxiety, and anger management. He is accomplished in his field. I am a SAHM and he just restricted my access to bank accounts.  He has been violent with others in the past, follows me (both in the house and walking to the park) when he is raging (which can go on for more than 2 hours), and has physically damaged objects during rages.  The meds reduced the rages, but his messed up patterns of thinking remain unaltered.  His relationship with both children (ages 16 and 18) has deteriorated to almost nothing (he thinks I have brainwashed them against him).

My therapist suggested I use the couples therapist to arrange separation guidelines.  I am afraid of him and don't know how he will react. We are still living in the same house.  I wake up every night after sleeping only 5-6 hours with my heart racing and wondering where he is in the house.  At the same time, I cannot look at him because the pained look he has on his face makes me feel sorry for him and I don't want to.  I feel like I am in this situation because I wasn't listening to my gut feelings.  I was completely shocked when the therapist said his behavior was emotional abuse.  He had me convinced everything was my fault and if I just tried harder i would make him happy.  All of this has taken a toll on my physical health.

T thinks I can just tell him in a session.  I spoke to two different lawyers after he restricted my access to money and they both said emphatically "do not tell him when you are still living under the same roof".  I need to get out as soon as possible.  Am I being paranoid?

What is the safest way to get out?

[Forestforthetrees]

I want out. I have been caretaking him since I was 19 and am now 49 (Stop Caretaking by Margalis Fjelstad was immensely helpful) .  He has been in steady decline since having children 18 years ago.  I Felt guilty and responsible for his happiness. He was diagnosed about two years ago. Talking about BPD is taboo.  He is on three different meds which I think are for depression, anxiety, and anger management. He is accomplished in his field. I am a SAHM and he just restricted my access to bank accounts.  He has been violent with others in the past, follows me (both in the house and walking to the park) when he is raging (which can go on for more than 2 hours), and has physically damaged objects during rages.  The meds reduced the rages, but his messed up patterns of thinking remain unaltered.  His relationship with both children (ages 16 and 18) has deteriorated to almost nothing (he thinks I have brainwashed them against him).

My therapist suggested I use the couples therapist to arrange separation guidelines.  I am afraid of him and don't know how he will react. We are still living in the same house.  I wake up every night after sleeping only 5-6 hours with my heart racing and wondering where he is in the house.  At the same time, I cannot look at him because the pained look he has on his face makes me feel sorry for him and I don't want to.  I feel like I am in this situation because I wasn't listening to my gut feelings.  I was completely shocked when the therapist said his behavior was emotional abuse.  He had me convinced everything was my fault and if I just tried harder i would make him happy.  All of this has taken a toll on my physical health.

T thinks I can just tell him in a session.  I spoke to two different lawyers after he restricted my access to money and they both said emphatically "do not tell him when you are still living under the same roof".  I need to get out as soon as possible.  Am I being paranoid?

What is the safest way to get out?

[whirlpoollife]

Welcome to bpdfamily. You have made a good decision to post  here to get support.

You are in an abusive relationship.  No one deserves to fear their spouse. 

You are currently in the FOG. Fear, Obligation, Guilt. Time to lift it ... .now .

You spoke to lawyers, does he know? I ask because you say he moved money from bank accounts so he is up to the fact you are going  to leave him. So he might be following you, gps, to the attorney's offices.

Do not stay for the children. The 16 is old enough to say where he wants to live once you and h are separated.

If you walk out of prison, the guard will put you right back in.

So you need plan prior to telling him. 

Get a track phone , so when you leave your house, you can shut your  other phone off so he can't gps you.( Not to say he can have a tracking device on the car. )

Get a storage locker to start moving all finance documents, and personal favorites into it.

Don't let him see you do this.

Don't tell him, hide the key.

Hide  some cash to live off for emergency. Gift cards for groceries.

A crisis shelter can assist in a safety plan for you! Do not hesitate to go to one . I did hesitate because h did not physically punch me and thought because of that and my age they wouldn't listen.

They do take emotional abuse very seriously .

They will also help you and the damage to your self esteem .

Marriage therapy is not going to work. Sitting together and telling him? Who is going home alone with this person... .you are, not the therapist. 

I was married 27 yrs.  you are not alone in having stayed and leaving a long term marriage. Many of us here have .    So please hang in there.

[Forestforthetrees]

I spoke to lawyers after he restricted my access to money.  Since then, he went through my things and found the book "Splitting" by Eddy and Kreger.  I had been hiding it, but he found it when I was walking the dog. 

We have not had sex in months, and that is his only source of any type of intimacy, as there is no capacity for emotional intimacy.  I know that is extremely threatening to him and could be the instigation for restricting access to money.

I cannot understand why couples T try to keep people together with BPD spouse.  I have been trying to set boundaries, such as not engaging in conversation when he is clearly agitated and he barges into the bedroom at 11:30 pm and I am in bed with the lights off.  Couoles T said I couldn't have known whether he was going to rage and I should have given him the chance to show how he could remain calm.  Does couoles T think he is cured because meds have suppressed his rages?  Why is couples T not working in my best interests?  So confusing.  Told personal T that dBPDh rated a 6/10 on Oasis violence scale and yet she still recommended I end relationship at our couples T session on Monday.

I do not care about material possessions.  I am so far beyond that. I just want to get out with the limited sanity I have left. 

How long do I need to hide from him?  If he agrees I can stay in the house with the kids, is that safe?

So I cannot seek refuge at neighborhood friends home?  Are kids in physical danger? dBPDh has raged at them too, but I would guess if he rated a 10 with me it would be 5-6 with them.

[ogopogodude]

Use your smarts.

Document.

Video tape.

Archived video tape footage will prove to be more than its weight in gold in the future.

Especially during "discovery" (this is what us canadians call the process of having the opposing L totally quiz and collect data prior to the Trial court process).

It has been my experience that a BPD likes to rage, but detests knowing later that there is video footage of the rage.

Hmmmm.

Very useful... .!

Temper tantrums & rages are behavioural activities that judges DO NOT TOLERATE. A judge will not allow a tantrum in his/her court room, and nor is it tolerated behaviour behind closed doors in the privacy of one's own home.

It's abuse. PURE AND SIMPLE. Especially when children are present.

[ogopogodude]

There are very important aspects of video taping.

One cannot just video tape the rage itself.

One has to videotape way, WAY prior to the incident. To show that there isn't taking things out of context or you causing him to rage.

In other words, the opposing L can say that you poked the bear, then started videotaping.

You have to hide your video cam somewhere and turn it on at least 15 minutes prior to the rage, ... .to show that you were trying everything to calm the situation down, but to no avail... .

[ogopogodude]

Here is what worked for me and a checklist:

1. Social Services/ The Ministry of Children and Family Development

  I had to make an appointment with Social Services.  This is NOT optional. This is a necessity.

If the kids are in danger, and it sounds like they are, ... if he rages at them, this is abuse. A home is supposed to be a sanctuary for children. A heaven on earth.

If the kids are afraid. This is no longer a heaven on earth. It is hell actually

2. Visit HIS physician as a guest patient

  visit his doctor with your concerns. If his doctor is the kids' doctor this is even better.  A physician is obligated to see you and take in collateral information of his/her patient.'



3. Go to the police and open a file

The police usually will say, "we only take in cases as they come in" or say "there is nothing that we can do"

But this is okay.  This will show the courts that you were in fact scared of him. Have some sort of document given to you by the police that you did in fact visit them with your concerns.

4.  Call/visit victim's assistance

Email them, call them what ever... .but get documentation that you informed them.

All the above, I know, seems like overkill. But it isn't. If you want to ensure winning in court, do the above. I realize there is the feeling of making him rage but too f... g bad.

Temper tantrums are unacceptable. This is why I am so pro-video tape.

[livednlearned]

I need to get out as soon as possible.  Am I being paranoid?

Hi Forestforthetrees,

I'm so sorry you are at this point. These are difficult marriages, and it sounds like your couples therapist is not validating how you feel, and perhaps giving you advice that is not protecting you. I don't think you are being paranoid. I think your feelings are as strong as they are because they are trying to propel you, with great energy, to take care of yourself. Right now, that means getting you and the kids to safety. If that is how you feel, it is not paranoia. It's real.

What is the safest way to get out?

The first thing I would do is get a credit card in your name only. If your H has cut you off from accounts, you are in a one-down position. There is often a period right after you leave or file that is a bit of a wing-it period, and you need to make sure that you have access to funds of some kind. It can take a bit before the lawyers get together and order some kind of spousal support. I would also recommend getting a PO Box so you can have your correspondence directed there, whether it's credit card statements, or legal documents. Once you start thinking about and planning for divorce, the marriage is over. Do not feel guilty about doing things without disclosing to your H. It's the beginning of the split and it will feel strange, but it's important to start seeing that you do not owe him explanations, and you do not have to tell him what you're planning to do.

Your H sounds very similar to what my ex was like in terms of abuse. If your H does anything physical to you, what is your plan? It's a good idea to know how things work in terms of domestic violence where you live. Not that he will become violent, but he will be in a very triggered state and it's hard to know how desperate he will respond. Learn as much as you can so you understand how law enforcement will respond to a distress call, and make sure you know (ask your lawyer) how it will affect divorce proceedings. In some states, there are mandatory arrest laws. If you call the police, that means they must arrest your H. In some states, there are also dual arrest laws. That means that if a third-party calls (falls under public disturbance), the police will arrest both of you.

I mention this because sometimes, when we start to feel ready to leave, our spouses, who are very dialed into every small emotional response, begin to act fearfully, and as you know well, these reactions are usually not gentle or easy. Sometimes they can be violent. It's like a very fearful game of chess. Each moves triggers the other player to think five steps ahead. Preventing you from having access to funds is a sign that he senses something. He is acting out of fear.

Your instincts about leaving safely are good, and lawyers are giving you the right advice. It's not necessarily that your therapists are not looking out for you, although that may certainly be true, it's that they probably want to minimize conflict and know that if you leave abruptly, your ex will have an outburst. But sometimes, when things are so emotionally charged, the only option is to have a watertight plan so that you can leave safely. That means holding your cards close until you are ready to play them.

I felt too afraid to stay in the home because of where we lived, a bit out in the country away from neighbors. You know your H best -- do you think he would show up unannounced to scare you?

When I was ready to leave (it took me 4 years to get to that point), I took a year to plan. Fortunately, I had access to our finances (my ex was terrible with money). I even moved personal items to a storage locker (paid for with my credit card) where I put photos, belongings, important items, nostalgic things from my son's life, that kind of thing. My L said that in acrimonious divorces, a spouse will destroy things out of spite and pain, and I didn't want to lose my son's records and photos. Also, my ex was jealous of my relationship with my son, a bit weird but BPD is a mental illness    

I also put a whole set of clothes and things I would need if my ex locked me out of the house. Leading up to my split, that's what he was doing -- locking me out of the house. I had a pre-paid phone stashed outside with a separate car key and other items I would need so I could at least make it through the night at a hotel if it came to that. Toward the end, I finally confided to friends what was happening, and that was another source of support.

It's a good idea to have a strategy nailed down that you work out with your L. Many Ls don't talk about strategy, but it's a good idea to figure one out. These are not easy divorces, especially when kids are involved. Find out if your state is a 50/50 default state, and what kind of custody agreement is likely, and then ask for twice that. Ideally, you will have documents to help substantiate your concerns. If you don't, that's ok. There are other tactics that can help you convince the court what is best for your child.

Great that you have read Splitting. Here is another article that you might want to print out and share with your L: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270440.msg12566140#msg12566140

And this will help you understand the nature of false allegations that tend to go with these cases: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271911.msg12580077#msg12580077  (also written by Bill Eddy, who wrote Splitting).

You probably feel a lot of fear right now. Change does that    but you will be ok. It will feel uncomfortable and your anxiety will likely spike while you go through this next set of white water rapids, but you have friends here who will help you, and Splitting, plus a support network, even if it's just your individual therapist. I was terrified of leaving my ex, but with planning I managed to land on my feet. I am so relieved I left, and wish I could've left without such a trail of destruction behind me. But my ex is also a former trial lawyer and I couldn't take any risks.

You're not alone  

People here genuinely care.

LnL

[Forestforthetrees]

Thanks to all for the helpful replies.  It will take me a while to digest all of this information. 

I will speak to L again Monday as well as see couples T.  Then I can try to put a plan in place.

Just reading your replies makes me feel so relieved--they literally make me cry. It is so hard to find true understanding, even from the T's. Everything begins to sound so petty when I am trying to explain, which makes me feel even worse. 

I feel like I see mental illness everywhere I look. Books, movies, news, etc.   

[letmeout]

It took me 35 years to get away from the same kind of person you are married to.

Never underestimate the lengths your BPD ex will go to for vengeance when you leave them. Mine closed out our accounts and cashed in our policies and I did not recoup any of it in the divorce. Please get whatever money you can, while you can.

Make sure you take important things you don't want to lose with you when you leave. I left with the clothes on my back thinking I could get my personal things later. That took a court order and I still didn't get many of my things back.

Trust your gut instincts, if you feel you are in danger, you are.

Getting away from the constant fear of a tyrant, mentally ill or not, is priceless!

What I did do:

Got some much needed counseling (its free) from our local woman's abuse center.

Joined a church, because that church family will help you immensely.

Go No Contact after you leave, and let the divorce lawyer deal with him.

Now is the time to protect yourself, and your sanity!

[Forestforthetrees]

Are T useful for documentation?  I have had 3 personal and 2 couples Ts over the last 2 years. I also have notes on some events during that time but unfortunately I did not write dates.  Only in the last two weeks was I able to talk about the sexual abuse.  But will it look like I made it up because I was planning to leave? 

[livednlearned]

I'm sorry that you endured sexual abuse in the marriage  :'(

Are T useful for documentation?  I have had 3 personal and 2 couples Ts over the last 2 years. I also have notes on some events during that time but unfortunately I did not write dates.  Only in the last two weeks was I able to talk about the sexual abuse.  But will it look like I made it up because I was planning to leave? 

Do you live in a state that is no-fault?

In a no-fault state, the beginning of divorce is often just divvying things up, unless you have kids, in which case you use documentation to show that you should have primary custody and he should have limited visitation. In general, it's behaviors that affect the kids that court cares about. The court did care about my ex's anger issues, but only when it was clear he was just as angry years after the divorce as he was during the marriage. His disordered thinking was also on display because he represented himself, so there was no one to filter him.

Unless you are going to make an issue of the domestic violence. If so, then yes -- likely you would subpoena your therapists. Don't worry about what it looks like in court. If you were sexually assaulted in the marriage, and talked about it in therapy, it won't matter if you brought it up when you decided to leave. The other L is going to say all kinds of things that aren't true -- it's the nature of court. Judges hear all kinds of things, and in general they try to dismiss hearsay and focus on what is documented.

[ForeverDad]

Moves - In some states the spouse filing for divorce can ask for possession of the marital residence during the divorce process and ask that the other spouse move out.  They have that provision since they know separation and divorce can be a time of heightened conflict.  Do to his past behaviors, rages, damage, etc, you have a case for seeking him to be the one to move out.  So in the legal consultations ask the lawyers if that is possible.

If you are seeking to be the majority time parent (SAHM provides a parenting history solidly on your side) then it is far better for him to move than you move and have to contest in court why the children should leave with you.

Finances - He shut you out of the finances so he could control you and your options.  So he thinks.  That's his sense of entitlement and his need to control.  However, there is an authority higher than him, the court.  The court can order him to provide support during the divorce, child support and possibly spousal support too.  Be aware that he may be trying to hide the marital assets.  He surely knows that you can seek at least half of the marital assets - the property, equity and the money.  However, you can ask the court to order that all financial records be disclosed.  The court does have tools to unwind a marriage, you just need to ask for them and use them.

Your children are older, and within a couple years they will both be adults and likely the court will have little need to be involved thereafter except perhaps for ordering financial support for at least some of the children's college expenses.

Since you've stayed at home raising the children, you likely don't have a career waiting for you once the marriage is ended.  You likely can get continued support ordered by the court so you get at least a couple years of college or career training.  Don't sell yourself short during the divorce.  You have a history of raising the children... .(1) basis for continued majority time parenting and (2) basis for seeking support whie getting an education or career training.

[Forestforthetrees]

So the summary for the couples T today is that T  recommended dBPDh and I  live apart for a few months and then reassess.  She said "I almost never suggest this but I think it would be appropriate... ." I am cautiously optimistic. No way in hell I will ever agree to get back together--I just want to get away.  I guess I will wait 24 hrs and then ask him what his plan is. He seems to think that if I just keep going to therapy I will realize how foolish I have been and come back to him. I cannot believe the delusions.  The therapists are military so I hope he feels a bit extra pressure to follow their advice since it is so strongly connected to his job.  He asked T how he could ensure that I keep going and she said "well during a separation that would be none of your business. That would be between your wife and her therapist"

When questioned about the banking changes, dBPDh actually told couples T that his individual T advised him to protect himself financially from me.  The two therapists work in the same office and I know she will check.  I don't think it could possiblybe true.  I suspect when she started catching on to the lying she thought he was a loose canon and decided to try to help me ••finally.

His demeanor was so calm in the session. I almost feel like in T, dBPDh is learning how to cover up the craziness he feels inside.  But he still said a few totally ridiculous things, enough that I think T had to have noticed.  Thankfully I feel like T helping me.

I will work on finding a lawyer in the meantime.

[ForeverDad]

So the summary for the couples T today is that T recommended dBPDh and I live apart for a few months and then reassess.  She said "I almost never suggest this but I think it would be appropriate... ."

It gives you an opportunity for you both to have a 'time out' without it being called a separation and trigger more of his overreactions.  I'm thinking she's helping you to find a way out and getting a good start with it, without declaring it as such.

I am cautiously optimistic. No way in hell I will ever agree to get back together--I just want to get away.

So yes work toward your goal but judiciously, don't wave a red flag in front of a bull.  Take the lead from the T, keep it officially "temporary and see how it goes" even though you know you won't go back.

He asked T how he could ensure that I keep going and she said "well during a separation that would be none of your business. That would be between your wife and her therapist"

And how do you know whether he will keep attending?  Mere attendance isn't the crucial aspect, what matters is what is learned and applied, the improvements.

[Forestforthetrees]

That is exactly what I will do.

I have never even asked if/when he goes to therapy because nothing will be accomplished if he is being forced to go.  He never does anything if it isn't his idea anyway. No matter how insignificant the request.

I know it has to come from within and after 2 years there has been very little change.

My biggest struggle at the moment is not rethinking all the lies he told and beating myself up for not saying anything. It's like when someone says something to you that is so incredibly rude that it renders you speechless--then later you think why didn't I respond, and only then do you think of some sort of response that shows you can stand up for yourself. I hate that feeling and I am constantly battling it right now.

[livednlearned]

My biggest struggle at the moment is not rethinking all the lies he told and beating myself up for not saying anything. It's like when someone says something to you that is so incredibly rude that it renders you speechless--then later you think why didn't I respond, and only then do you think of some sort of response that shows you can stand up for yourself. I hate that feeling and I am constantly battling it right now.

I completely understand! I was the same way in my marriage.

For me it goes back to conditioning in my family of origin. And then it took me some time after moving out for my backbone to start growing. My T had me start with customer service, acquaintenances, lower stakes people. Then move up to coworkers and supervisor, then professors at school, and then family. I also learned a lot from the parenting coordinator involved in my case, and people here. At first, being assertive felt like aggression to me. I had to learn that the two are very different, it was a perception problem on my part.

Be gentle with yourself. It's hard to stand up for yourself when you're locked in battle, and the opposing side lives inside your home. You were protecting yourself the way you knew how. Once you get yourself to safety, and are committed to making the change in yourself, the opportunities will come back. I was never a push over, but for some reason being with N/BPDx took the wind out of my sails. I didn't realize how downtrodden I had truly become until I finally got back on my own two feet.

Glad you are feeling supported by your T. And moving out sounds like a good idea, especially the part where you use that time to get a strategy in place. Leaving these marriages definitely takes some planning, if you want to do it safely and give yourself maximum protection.

[ForeverDad]

My biggest struggle at the moment is not rethinking all the lies he told and beating myself up for not saying anything. It's like when someone says something to you that is so incredibly rude that it renders you speechless--then later you think why didn't I respond, and only then do you think of some sort of response that shows you can stand up for yourself. I hate that feeling and I am constantly battling it right now.

I know that feeling well.  A mental stutter.  It will get better though as you recover over time.  (Recovery is a process, not an event.)  And I recall the time I came back with an instant response, stunned me, I was smiles all over, though offhand now I can't remember precisely what it was... .

[Forestforthetrees]

I'm glad I'm not alone in the "mental stutter".  I don't know that I will ever be able to respond to dBPDh because of the irrationality of what he says. How does the rational brain process the irrational?  Is it even possible? 

Not surprising to probably anyone on this board, dBPDH is denying that the T recommended to live apart. I am not sure how to handle that.

[ForeverDad]

Inform the T and meanwhile proceed with your 'temporary' separation arrangements, that's what I think you ought to do.  If you can email the T and want to copy your spouse on it, then I believe you would get a response to both of you, not sure whether T would give an answer or restatement in an email or ask you two to come back in to discuss it further.  Sounds like your spouse is reinterpreting the next steps, not surprising.

Understand this well... .You are an adult.  Your spouse is an adult.  No one can force either of you two to remain together.  No one can force either of you two to remain married.  You both have rights to (1) remain in the relationship if you both agree or (2) suspend or end the relationship if either one of you so chooses.

In short, if you want to do a temporary or therapeutic separation, legal separation or even a divorce, he can't block you.  However, "starting with a therapeutic separation and see where we are in a few months" is a way that may avoid suddenly triggering conflict.  No guarantee of course.  Have you heard of Extinction Bursts?  That's when the disordered person senses or notices you starting to build stronger boundaries and he or she tries to overwhelm your new boundaries in expectation you'll retreat and go back to the old clueless/appeasing/targeted patterns.

[livednlearned]

Not surprising to probably anyone on this board, dBPDH is denying that the T recommended to live apart. I am not sure how to handle that.

Sometimes when I talked to my ex with firm authority, as though I was the parent and he was the child, he would wind down and just... .accept things. Do you think that might work in your situation? I can't say it always worked, but enough that I began to use it. I never said "you this, and you that." I would just state calmly what was going to happen.

I felt more capable of doing this after reading Patricia Evan's book on Verbal Abuse. I had gotten in the habit of saying, "no" and nothing else. Or "stop." No explanation, no discussion, no nothing. I sometimes had to repeat it 8-10 times. I would even hold my hand up like a police officer. Shocked me the first few times it worked.

My ex was also an alcoholic, so often I wasn't dealing with a sober person. It seemed to depend to a small extent on just how drunk he was, and what prescription medications he had taken.

[Forestforthetrees]

Thank you Foreverdad and Livedandlearned,

This is all so overwhelming and exhausting. I am so sleep deprived I am afraid I am not thinking straight.

I am waiting for a call back from Couples T. I think maybe she wants to talk to his individual T first since they are in same office.

I know I could go to one of two neighborhood friends, each a block away (urban) but I was hoping he would leave which would be so much less disruptive for kids.  If I didn't go to my friend's home, it would take me a while to find someplace for the three of us (plus my beloved 14 lb terrier).

I can think of two approaches, both by text, for making another plea to him.

I feel only by text because I want replies in writing for my protection, so there is no "he said she said" aspect.


1.  I am sure either My Friend A or My Friend B would let the kids, dog and I stay with them if I ask. So if you intend to stay in the house, we will do that to begin our "therapeutic separation".  Please let me know your choice by tomorrow afternoon.

(I like that phrasing, thanks)

This could work because he will not want my friends so involved in our business, which would end up being entire neighborhood since everyone knows everyone and we would be seen and also reassures him it is temporary (even though it isn't)

2.  I am formally requesting that you find alternative accommodations for the therapeutic separation.  I am willing to find someplace else for the kids, dog, and I, but I believe it would be a much harder on the kids as well as being a more expensive option.

This option would give him a second chance to do the right thing and show that he cares about the kids.  Also, it would save him in his precious money.


Any thoughts?  I realize you are at a disadvantage since you don't know him, but from my reading he seems classic BPD, if that helps.

[Rubies]

You do not leave your home.  You have him removed from the family home while you and the kids remain with enough support to maintain payments and expenses.

I am tired of reading and hearing abuse victims need to leave when it is not true.  The abuser needs to leave.

[ForeverDad]

NO, don't you leave!  He should leave, well, unless he is the primary caregiver (majority parenting time) for the children.  And I think the T would back you up on that.

However, then you risk H returning "whenever I want to see the children" and feeling entitled to do so because "I still have a key".  Ponder how best to handle that, or pose that scenario to the T also.

[Forestforthetrees]

Ok. It will be hard to ask but I will do it. It is always easier when the kids are affected, that is what gave me the courage to make the decision to leave in the first place. I have come to understand through my reading that if I don't stand up for myself and them, they are much more likely to repeat my mistakes.

The couples T emailed him this afternoon saying "immediate separation", but of course he is behaving like nothing is going on. Tomorrow morning we meet with yet another T who has spoken to couples T as well as his individual T, and if I read between the lines correctly she will be backing me up. I plan to address it then.

He was furious in last couples session that I was reading about BPD. He doesn't like the label. 

Thanks all :-)

[ForeverDad]

Yes, the BPD label can be very triggering, it is perceived as an accusation and typically triggers an overreaction of Denial, Blaming and Blame-Shifting.  (As I recall my own separation and divorce, my ex looked bad so she made repeated 'unsubstantiated' allegations in a desperate attempt to make me look worse than her.)

While knowing about BPD is very helpful - it helps us accept it's not All Our Fault - for most members here what has been more practical is to focus on the Behaviors and Behavior Patterns.  So while knowing about BPD helps us to shape our strategies relatively few of us have had the label or diagnosis be more than a background theme.

I recall in my first session with my custody evaluator, a child psychologist and lecturer at a local university, I was told he wasn't there to diagnose anyone, just to recommend to the court about custody and parenting.  He even said that with my ex being a Stay At Home Mother (SAHM) that I'd probably at best only get 50%.  Sure enough his initial report never mentioned any Personality Disorders.  But the report's summary was not what he had estimated at the beginning.  "Mother cannot share 'her' child but father can... .Mother should immediately lose temporary custody... .If shared parenting is tried but fails then father should get custody... ."  Years later, I still haven't had any confirmation of a diagnosis for her.  (Me?  My paperwork said 'anxiety', of course.)

Behaviors.  Behavior patterns.  Documentation.  That's a solid strategy if the 'labels' take a back seat.

[Forestforthetrees]

I cannot believe it, dBPDh agreed to move out during our session with T who is parenting specialist (after 30 min of digging in his heels saying it wasn't best for the kids).  I am cautiously optimistic that things are finally headed in the right direction.  I took notes on how/what to say to the kids so that I have a record this time. (I do learn from my mistakes sometimes;-)

And we have a follow up appointment with her so that creates the semblance of a deadline.

I hesitated so long when asked what living arrangements I wanted that T actually jumped in and said "well, usually, I mean almost all of the time, the father moves out because it is the least disruptive". I would like to think I would've been able to ask myself, but I was awfully relieved that it didn't come to that.  Something else to work on.

dBPDh  did say, at one point, "wait, aren't we just learning to live apart?"

T replied "yes! That's exactly what you are doing."  

Wow, that's not an approach I ever thought of!  Agreeing with their fear?  How did she do that?

He didn't even argue!


Thank you all, yet again, so very much for all the advice.  I feel like bpdfamily can count me as one of their successes.  I know the future holds many more challenges, but I definitely see the light at the end of the tunnel.

And please know that I have read and reread every word that each of you have taken the time to type.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!