Feeling Tempted to Pretend...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hey Gang,

I saw my new T last week.  I called her today to ask her for HW.  Told her I am ready to dive in deep and make some tracks.  I read the posts of members who have done that, learned much, and are coming out the other side.  Every time I read one of those posts I say "yes, that is what I want."  To be grateful for this hellish experience because of what I learned and how I was liberated as a result.

And yet, in this very second, I am aware of the temptation to pretend that it didn't really happen, I didn't really get hooked by the r/s, it really wasn't so bad, I really am okay, this couldn't have happened to ME.  Surely I did not participate in a r/s so sick and so twisted.  A r/s that was sick and twisted right from day #1.  That had it not been sick and twisted from the beginning I probably would have walked away.  Sad but true.  I wasn't conned. 

I am not tempted to pretend b/c I want to go back to the relationship.  I do not want that.  Instead, I want to pretend everything is hunky-dory to avoid actually looking down in the darkest recesses of my heart and mind.  Seems like a good idea when it is just an idea.  But to actually do it.  Yuck. 

Why yuck?  Because I don't like weakness.  I don't like MY weakness.  I don't want to be "one of them"... .a "human"... .one of those "weak and needy humans."  I don't mind humanness in others.  I honor it.  I respect it.  I understand it.  I am just not so keen on finding that within me.  I am supposed to be above that.  Better than that.  Why?  Why do I think that?

I know intellectually that peering into all of my humanness is the way to move forward.  But emotionally -  yuck.  Confronting my own weakness.  So much easier to hang out with someone else's, i.e. the non-stop crises of my UexBPDbf.  More fun to be the "I can do anything, fix-it girl."  I love fixing problems.  And I am genuinely so good at it.  I got a helicopter into Haiti when Doctors Without Borders couldn't get in.  I love being that person.  She seems way cooler than the needy, weak me. 

I feel like throwing up just thinking about it.  Yuck.  (which is not yuck to any of your struggles;  just yuck to my own).

Or so I have thought.  Likely, it is the degree to which I avoid my own humanity, my own weakness, and my own neediness that I have landed myself in relationships with men chock full of problems.  In this r/s, sadly, a problem that cannot be fixed.  Even by super-problem-fixer me.  (Actually true of many of my relationships... .not just BPD).

I have a friend who was married to a woman with BPD.  He would likely be very sympathetic.  But I am too embarrassed to tell him I fell in the same trap.  He was 20 something.  I was 47.  Like many of you, I am smart, confident, assertive, not actually a people-pleaser.  I should have known better.  Please know I am not being critical of anyone here.  But I am disgusted with myself.  I should have known better.  What the heck? 

Guess it is time to give up the either/or thinking.  Weak OR strong.  Needy or independent.  Smart or stupid.  Perfect or imperfect.  These things co-exist.  Both are true.

But tempting to just keep on pretending... .

Just writing what is on my heart and mind (and in the pit of my stomach).  What say you?

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Hey Gang,

I saw my new T last week.  I called her today to ask her for HW.  Told her I am ready to dive in deep and make some tracks.  I read the posts of members who have done that, learned much, and are coming out the other side.  Every time I read one of those posts I say "yes, that is what I want."  To be grateful for this hellish experience because of what I learned and how I was liberated as a result.

And yet, in this very second, I am aware of the temptation to pretend that it didn't really happen, I didn't really get hooked by the r/s, it really wasn't so bad, I really am okay, this couldn't have happened to ME.  Surely I did not participate in a r/s so sick and so twisted.  A r/s that was sick and twisted right from day #1.  That had it not been sick and twisted from the beginning I probably would have walked away.  Sad but true.  I wasn't conned. 

I am not tempted to pretend b/c I want to go back to the relationship.  I do not want that.  Instead, I want to pretend everything is hunky-dory to avoid actually looking down in the darkest recesses of my heart and mind.  Seems like a good idea when it is just an idea.  But to actually do it.  Yuck. 

Why yuck?  Because I don't like weakness.  I don't like MY weakness.  I don't want to be "one of them"... .a "human"... .one of those "weak and needy humans."  I don't mind humanness in others.  I honor it.  I respect it.  I understand it.  I am just not so keen on finding that within me.  I am supposed to be above that.  Better than that.  Why?  Why do I think that?

I know intellectually that peering into all of my humanness is the way to move forward.  But emotionally -  yuck.  Confronting my own weakness.  So much easier to hang out with someone else's, i.e. the non-stop crises of my UexBPDbf.  More fun to be the "I can do anything, fix-it girl."  I love fixing problems.  And I am genuinely so good at it.  I got a helicopter into Haiti when Doctors Without Borders couldn't get in.  I love being that person.  She seems way cooler than the needy, weak me. 

I feel like throwing up just thinking about it.  Yuck.  (which is not yuck to any of your struggles;  just yuck to my own).

Or so I have thought.  Likely, it is the degree to which I avoid my own humanity, my own weakness, and my own neediness that I have landed myself in relationships with men chock full of problems.  In this r/s, sadly, a problem that cannot be fixed.  Even by super-problem-fixer me.  (Actually true of many of my relationships... .not just BPD).

I have a friend who was married to a woman with BPD.  He would likely be very sympathetic.  But I am too embarrassed to tell him I fell in the same trap.  He was 20 something.  I was 47.  Like many of you, I am smart, confident, assertive, not actually a people-pleaser.  I should have known better.  Please know I am not being critical of anyone here.  But I am disgusted with myself.  I should have known better.  What the heck? 

Guess it is time to give up the either/or thinking.  Weak OR strong.  Needy or independent.  Smart or stupid.  Perfect or imperfect.  These things co-exist.  Both are true.

But tempting to just keep on pretending... .

Just writing what is on my heart and mind (and in the pit of my stomach).  What say you?

[jhkbuzz]

Hey Gang,

I saw my new T last week.  I called her today to ask her for HW.  Told her I am ready to dive in deep and make some tracks.  I read the posts of members who have done that, learned much, and are coming out the other side.  Every time I read one of those posts I say "yes, that is what I want."  To be grateful for this hellish experience because of what I learned and how I was liberated as a result.

And yet, in this very second, I am aware of the temptation to pretend that it didn't really happen, I didn't really get hooked by the r/s, it really wasn't so bad, I really am okay, this couldn't have happened to ME.  Surely I did not participate in a r/s so sick and so twisted.  A r/s that was sick and twisted right from day #1.  That had it not been sick and twisted from the beginning I probably would have walked away.  Sad but true.  I wasn't conned. 

I am not tempted to pretend b/c I want to go back to the relationship.  I do not want that.  Instead, I want to pretend everything is hunky-dory to avoid actually looking down in the darkest recesses of my heart and mind.  Seems like a good idea when it is just an idea.  But to actually do it.  Yuck. 

Why yuck?  Because I don't like weakness.  I don't like MY weakness.  I don't want to be "one of them"... .a "human"... .one of those "weak and needy humans."  I don't mind humanness in others.  I honor it.  I respect it.  I understand it.  I am just not so keen on finding that within me.  I am supposed to be above that.  Better than that.  Why?  Why do I think that?

I know intellectually that peering into all of my humanness is the way to move forward.  But emotionally -  yuck.  Confronting my own weakness.  So much easier to hang out with someone else's, i.e. the non-stop crises of my UexBPDbf.  More fun to be the "I can do anything, fix-it girl."  I love fixing problems.  And I am genuinely so good at it.  I got a helicopter into Haiti when Doctors Without Borders couldn't get in.  I love being that person.  She seems way cooler than the needy, weak me. 



I feel like throwing up just thinking about it.  Yuck.  (which is not yuck to any of your struggles;  just yuck to my own).

Or so I have thought.  Likely, it is the degree to which I avoid my own humanity, my own weakness, and my own neediness that I have landed myself in relationships with men chock full of problems.  In this r/s, sadly, a problem that cannot be fixed.  Even by super-problem-fixer me.  (Actually true of many of my relationships... .not just BPD).

I have a friend who was married to a woman with BPD.  He would likely be very sympathetic.  But I am too embarrassed to tell him I fell in the same trap.  He was 20 something.  I was 47.  Like many of you, I am smart, confident, assertive, not actually a people-pleaser.  I should have known better.  Please know I am not being critical of anyone here.  But I am disgusted with myself.  I should have known better.  What the heck? 

Guess it is time to give up the either/or thinking.  Weak OR strong.  Needy or independent.  Smart or stupid.  Perfect or imperfect.  These things co-exist.  Both are true.

But tempting to just keep on pretending... .

Just writing what is on my heart and mind (and in the pit of my stomach).  What say you?

I could have written this post myself... .have been in therapy for about 8 months.  A good chunk of it was processing the end of the r/s, but now I'm digging deep and about to go deeper... .and scared ___less at what I might find.

I struggle a lot with vulnerability, and I'm trying to figure out why.  Perhaps because my childhood home wasn't really safe - I learned how to be tough and strong from a young age.  I also learned that my needs didn't rank really high on the importance scale, which made it easier to put them aside in this last r/s, I guess.

You know how I'm motivating myself to dive in?  With the thought that some people never figure themselves out.  Life is not endless; time runs out; I want to get this ___ figured OUT before it's too late.

If you've never watched Brene Brown's TED Talk on vulnerability, you should. 

www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability?language=en

[LimboFL]

Reclaim, I too am what I would consider a smart man (at 47 we are creeping into the territory that allows us to actually be seen, somewhat as elders). I will never see the 4 years I spent with my ex, as a learning experience nor will I ever be grateful. I am kind and compassionate and while I mutter insults to my ex under my breath, I still love and miss her. I have expressed myself a great deal on that front, so would rather not do so here.

With that said, while it hasn't been something that I have stood on the rooftops and shouted about, I have been quite honest with friends and family about what I have been through. For the most part, while I knew that they could never understand unless they have been through it, i needed them to know that what I tolerated and went through was visceral and real but more importantly that the partner I loved was disordered. People who have not been there don't truly understand but they do understand that, in general terms, that a relationship with a disorder person can be the very definition of chaos. I needed for people to appreciate that some of the things I explained because I needed to vent weren't the behaviors of a normal person. It allowed me to also explain the reasons why I believed she was the way she was, that she had lived a very difficult childhood. It helped my friends and family understand why I stayed for so long.

The bottom line is that while the public at large may not discuss it, I suspect that everyone knows someone who is either disordered themselves or has a friend or family member who is in a relationship with a disordered person. The last thing I feel is shame. For all of the pain that I have and still, to some degree, continue to go through I do not feel shame. While it may come off as a little to much like I am trying to sound like some saint, the fact that is that we should feel somewhat proud, because we didn't give up, because we loved someone so much that we were willing to endure and sacrifice a great deal in order not to abandon them. We were honorable, more so than so many who split at the first sign of difficulty. We were unselfish, giving and strong. It isn't weakness that kept us there, it was strength. We got up every day and said today is going to be a better day, we educated ourselves and we were warriors who thought we could overcome every obstacle, to reach and help a person we loved. My God, there is nothing shameful about that, nothing.

As for your friend who is married to a BPD. How much support have your received here? Maybe your friend would absolutely fall over with relief to have a close friend who understands what he is going through, who can advise him, who can send him over here to BPD family. Imagine if he is trapped in this world he knows nothing about but that you can shed light on. You could be responsible for changing your friends life. if there is anyone who isn't going to judge you, it is a person who is living it themselves. This is why we all find comfort here.

We all have and continue to go through so much pain and anguish over these relationships, the very last thing we should ever do is feel pathetic for fighting to make them work, for wanting to be there for someone we love(d). In sickness and in health are etched into marriage vows for a reason. There is no difference between our being there for a partner who has been stricken with cancer, nothing. We weren't fools, nor were we weak.

Some need to dig deep in order to figure out what lays underneath that caused them to stay in their relationship. I completely respect it. For my part, I don't need to dig that deep. I loved my ex, I was willing to fight the good fight because I loved her. Was I wrong to do so, absolutely not, was I weak to do so, absolutely not. To boot, all of us here are fighting our way out of what can only be describe as a emotional catastrophe, but we are still bloody here. We are pulling ourselves out of very very deep holes and are survivors. We should be proud of ourselves, not ashamed.

My 2 cents.

[cosmonaut]

We all have and continue to go through so much pain and anguish over these relationships, the very last thing we should ever do is feel pathetic for fighting to make them work, for wanting to be there for someone we love(d). In sickness and in health are etched into marriage vows for a reason. There is no difference between our being there for a partner who has been stricken with cancer, nothing. We weren't fools, nor were we weak.

Some need to dig deep in order to figure out what lays underneath that caused them to stay in their relationship. I completely respect it. For my part, I don't need to dig that deep. I loved my ex, I was willing to fight the good fight because I loved her. Was I wrong to do so, absolutely not, was I weak to do so, absolutely not. To boot, all of us here are fighting our way out of what can only be describe as a emotional catastrophe, but we are still bloody here. We are pulling ourselves out of very very deep holes and are survivors. We should be proud of ourselves, not ashamed.

This is an excellent, excellent post, Limbo.  I completely agree with what you've written here.  We loved someone who was very damaged.  There is no shame in that.  Sometimes, I get a little short with the secularist, materialist views on relationships, that are very popular in the mental health world, about what a "healthy" relationship is.  I just can't accept the idea that you are in the wrong for loving someone.  That you somehow messed up.  I believe healthy relationships are about commitment.  They are about honoring and cherishing the best in someone else.  They are about forgiveness.  They are about selflessness.  They are about giving more than receiving.  They are about sacrifice.  Trying to live that love with someone who is a sick, deeply wounded person is not wrong.  It can't be wrong.  It is the foundation of Christian love: giving of ourselves to others.

[LimboFL]

I agree cosmonaut, that there is far too much psycho babble on "healthy relationships". I have yet to see one. We are human and when you put two humans together in the context of a couple, it simply isn't possible to avoid conflict, differences of opinion. The relationships that endure the test of time do so because both parties understand the concept of compromise, mutual sacrifice and the understanding that in the big scheme of things, the little things that so often torch relationships to the ground are so so inconsequential. Every one of us, in these relationships, understood the concept of compromise.

The bottom line is that we are all flawed creatures. None of us have taken this journey, to whatever point we may currently be at, and come out unscathed. Life ain't easy, it's that simple. I can assure you that my exBPD was not the first sledge hammer that has slammed me into the earth and she won't be the last. Love is love, it's that simple. There is no formula, there are no road maps.

Above it all, we should not change what kept us in these relationships.

 

[cosmonaut]

Well said, Limbo.  We are so completely on the same page.  There are no perfect relationships because there are no perfect people.  All of us have our flaws, and it that doesn't mean we are wrong for loving someone despite their flaws.   

[cosmonaut]

Hey, Reclaiming, why do you feel weak in being a human?  I think you have some really nice insights about yourself, but I wonder if you have any idea why you are so hard on yourself for being a human being.  Do you know?  Maybe not at this point, but it might be something to think about.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I could have written this post myself... .have been in therapy for about 8 months.  A good chunk of it was processing the end of the r/s, but now I'm digging deep and about to go deeper... .and scared ___less at what I might find.

I struggle a lot with vulnerability, and I'm trying to figure out why. 

You know how I'm motivating myself to dive in?  With the thought that some people never figure themselves out.  Life is not endless; time runs out; I want to get this ___ figured OUT before it's too late.

jhkbuzz, thanks for your post.  I am glad to know I am not alone.  I love what you said: "life is not endless; time runs out; I want to get this ___ figured OUT before it's too late."  I feel the same way.  I have made just about the same mistake with every relationship I've had from ages 16-47.  The one with my UexBPDbf was the most extreme, for sure, but it wasn't a complete anomaly. Heck, I could still end up married for 30+ years.  And I want to finally get it right!  

I will check out Brene Brown.  Thanks for suggestion and link.  We are fighting the good fight!  

Above it all, we should not change what kept us in these relationships.

Limbo and cosmonaut, thank you for your affirmations of the good in us that tried so freaking hard in these r/s.  Willing to twist and turn and do all in our power to make it work.  These are admirable qualities.  My best showed up for sure: my optimism, my belief in the ability to overcome and that everyone deserves a second chance, that we are not and should not be defined by our circumstances or our bank account, my delight in the simple pleasure of hanging out laughing with someone I enjoyed so very much.  I do not wish that part of me away. I learned how very much I actually want to be with someone in an intimate and connected r/s.  I don't wish these things away.  And I am not ashamed of them.  

But it is equally true that my weaknesses showed up.  Big time.  As I said in my post, and I am probably atypical, but my UexBPDbf's bad behavior showed up immediately.  There was no honeymoon period.  I wasn't conned.  My sense of power and ego were activated.  On all levels.  I was hooked before I even knew him.  Hooked on energy, drama, secrecy, intensity, challenge, lust, risk.  And while I did come to love him a lot, it wasn't love that brought me there and I can't honestly say it was love that kept me there.  I honor those of you who can say it was all about love.  I wish I could but there were too many other things at play.  

I do not want another r/s like this.  It was a disaster.  My entire family paid the price.  My daughter's world view and sense of safety have been completely compromised.  She is in self-defense and at 14 wants to learn to use a gun (despite not being a gun family).  As such, I need to see what in ME got hooked and kept me there.  It was a short r/s (only 8 months).  Once the stalking and threats began I apprised my family.  But I knew on some level that had my entire family not known, I probably would have gone back.  :)espite everything.  I don't think I could have counted on myself to get myself out.  

That is ___ed up.  It necessitates me looking at me.    

You are right that shame is not going to help.  I need to let go of that part.  But I need to investigate this with eyes wide open.      

Thanks for this conversation.  Earlier I was feeling afraid to look.  Sick to my stomach.  But I now viscerally remember why I must.  

Thanks, y'all!

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Hey, Reclaiming, why do you feel weak in being a human?  I think you have some really nice insights about yourself, but I wonder if you have any idea why you are so hard on yourself for being a human being.  Do you know?  Maybe not at this point, but it might be something to think about.

Exactly, cosmonaut!  That is exactly what I must do.  Investigate why I feel the way I do and see what about that drives my behavior and choices.  It is unreasonable.  But it is deeply rooted.  Despite my temptation otherwise, it is time to stop pretending and figure it out! 

[myself]

I loved my ex, I was willing to fight the good fight because I loved her. Was I wrong to do so, absolutely not, was I weak to do so, absolutely not.

As someone who did have some deeper things to work on within myself while younger, and then following through with it, I already knew I wasn't a 'rescuer' and wasn't looking to 'save' anyone except myself. When I was in the r/s with the person I speak of here, and gradually learned she had some serious problems, I thought the love and friendship we shared would be enough to overcome them. I believed in her, myself, and us. It seemed my having learned better personal ways to deal with things in life would be beneficial for her as well. Sharing calmness for example. It did help, for a time, but turned out to be like skipping a stone across a river with it eventually sinking out of sight, not making it all the way.

As far as pretending goes, I did some of that while still in the r/s. Ignoring the elephant in the room as it's said. Which in effect was turning myself away from who I really was (being someone more inclined to say, "Hey what's up with this elephant?". A key part of working my way back out of this has been to face myself, as seriously as I did while working through my earlier stuff (this time with more of a focus on grieving and moving on). Acknowledging the truths of what happened, how I reacted and why, who was I/who am I, etc. I don't see that I would have changed much, except maybe to get out sooner. Because the patterns showed it wasn't going to last but I still kept up the mix of trying to be there for her, to live a married life with her for all the wonderful reasons there are to be with someone like that, and nervous to let go because to do so was to give it all up. I knew we wouldn't still be friends, etc. Each of our paths would radically alter.

But yeah I loved her, was strong for her, and 'the disorder' kept spinning and chopped the r/s apart. She said goodbye again and I agreed that it was over. I couldn't pretend anymore, especially to myself. It's like having the answer all along but the question keeps changing. Believing in yourself but not really. A pwBPD resists it, twists it, and ultimately misses out on it. We don't have to live like that, it's not who we really are. Embrace your whole story. I don't just blurt it out to anyone, but with the right time and place can get as real about this stuff as possible. No more sweeping things under the rug, or pretending I don't see the pile that's already growing there, knowing I have a broom in my hands at all times for things like that now.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I couldn't pretend anymore, especially to myself. It's like having the answer all along but the question keeps changing. Believing in yourself but not really.

No more sweeping things under the rug, or pretending I don't see the pile that's already growing there, knowing I have a broom in my hands at all times for things like that now.

Thank you, myself!  (that is kind of fun to write... .especially in the context of this conversation).  I don't want to pretend anymore. I can't.  Believing in myself but not really.  This freaking elephant of mine is in my room.  Time to take it out and figure it out.  Thanks again, myself

[cosmonaut]

I think you're an insightful person by nature, Reclaiming, and it seems like you've already been doing quite a bit of self examination.  I think that's a wonderful quality about you.  Keep exploring that, and see what you can find.

You have so much love for others, but it seems that when it comes to yourself there is no tolerance for imperfection.  That's not a criticism, just an observation.  I know something about this too, because I can be a relentless perfectionist, and I can really beat myself up about failing to meet impossible standards at times.  When I start doing this in therapy, my therapist has me do the following:  imagine that I am talking to someone else that has the exact same situation that I am in, and then she asks me what I would say to them.  Of course, I would never say to someone else the things I say to myself.  And that's sort of the point of the exercise.  You are a human being, and that's ok.  We are all human beings.  And we aren't perfect.  But we try.  And it's in trying that we really show our character.  It's not in being perfect, it's in the striving.  And it sounds like you really do strive and you've done a lot of good for others.  Be proud of that.  But be kind to yourself too.   

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I think you're an insightful person by nature, Reclaiming, and it seems like you've already been doing quite a bit of self examination.  I think that's a wonderful quality about you.  Keep exploring that, and see what you can find.

You have so much love for others, but it seems that when it comes to yourself there is no tolerance for imperfection.  That's not a criticism, just an observation.  I know something about this too, because I can be a relentless perfectionist, and I can really beat myself up about failing to meet impossible standards at times. 

You are a human being, and that's ok.  We are all human beings.  And we aren't perfect.  But we try.  And it's in trying that we really show our character.  It's not in being perfect, it's in the striving.  And it sounds like you really do strive and you've done a lot of good for others.  Be proud of that.  But be kind to yourself too.   

Thank you, cosmonaut.  Your observations are on the money and do not feel like criticism.  It is funny though.  Because I am so NOT a perfectionist in so very many ways.  I work, take care of my stuff and my life but am very relaxed about it.  I often say I am (we are) "perfectly imperfect" or "imperfectly perfect" creatures.  I believe that in so many ways and it shows up in my happy, carefree attitude.  And yet, beneath the surface lies this small but very deep, very judgmental, almost hateful sliver of belief that says I should know better.  From whence this came I do not know.  But time to find out and make peace with it  

[Deeno02]

Really good topic. Ive been struggling the last day or two wondering if Im a good man. In my mind and the way I was made to feel by her, that I just wasnt good enough for her. I guess the reality was I was used as her ego boost until someone came along that was better suited to her social group and lifestyle. Hard pill to swallow and does nothing for my self esteem. Really about the only thing Im greatful for is that this b/u dug up stuff from my childhood that Im working on. Being ignored, left alone and never validated in anything as a child. Playing Hockey, Football and Volleyball at a standout level with no one in the stands. Then this relationship were I was mentally, verbally and emotionally abused because I let my fear of lonliness/abandonment and low self worth keep me hanging on to something that was wrong and I knew it was wrong.It was so wrong that I was willing to be so selfish that I wanted to take my own life to be relieved of this horrible feeling of being unwanted by anyone. I cant undo the damage this woman left on me, but I can make sure it never happens again.

[LimboFL]

Reclaiming, your situation was not atypical at all. Difficulties showed up almost immediately in my relationship too. There were some moments of idealization but very quickly her impatience surfaced, very quickly the crazy surfaced and very quickly the judgmental chastising, mocking queen surfaced, the tension was almost scary, I wasn't prepared . But I also saw the beauty in her and also the wounded bird but that doesn't mean that we were conned.

I think you are far too hard on yourself and that, in order for your to heal, you need to fully embrace the nature of this disorder. Being conned means that the culprit is fully aware and in full control of their actions and decision making. While pwBPD are not so far off the grid as to not be able to tell right from wrong, they do not have very good control of their impulses. To get personal, I remember probably two weeks into the relationship and my ex (we were boozed) and I had just made love. I push myself up and look at her and she says "did we just make love"? Imagine how weird that was for me, especially not knowing BPD even existed.

It's hard enough dealing with life and relationships when your mind isn't playing tricks on you, imagine if it were. If your ex was not BPD, then maybe you were conned, but if your ex was BPD, then you were dealing with a person who functions on a different plane.

Beyond all of this, though, it is clear that you harbor a great deal of guilt and resentment. I understand why and have felt many of these same emotions but in order to get anywhere near progress, you have to find a way to let go of it. This advice is applicable to so many things that happen to us in life. It is the only way to survive. There was a time when, if I lost something of value to me or I got towed or a traffic ticket (name it), I would stew for days. Doing that did nothing more than torture me, so I have trained myself to just let go. I will get angry in the moment, but then talk myself into saying "nothing you can do about it, let go of it".

Of course, these are issues of the heart, relationships where love was at the core of our drive. We gave a tremendous amount and feel robbed, cheated. In my case, I feel robbed because I loved my ex and wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. The disorder robbed me of that.

Regardless, just like your feeling of shame, that you hopefully will let go of stat, I believe that letting go of all of the feelings of betrayal etc are probably the most critical part of the healing process. I don't mean that we should forgive but rather for our own sanity and well being, we let go of the hurt, guilt, pride and the immense feeling that we were wronged. This is for no one else but us and I am not saying it will be easy. I have shed countless tears, felt tremendous anger. It's healthy and part of the process. Work on letting go, as best you can. Vent, as you did when starting this thread, purge everything.

We are all here to help. We have and will continue to take two steps forward and one step back until we have processed it all. Some will take longer to do so and others less time.  

[jhkbuzz]

This is a really GREAT thread!

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Really good topic. Ive been struggling the last day or two wondering if Im a good man.

Really about the only thing Im greatful for is that this b/u dug up stuff from my childhood that Im working on. Being ignored, left alone and never validated in anything as a child. Playing Hockey, Football and Volleyball at a standout level with no one in the stands.

Then this relationship were I was mentally, verbally and emotionally abused because I let my fear of lonliness/abandonment and low self worth keep me hanging on to something that was wrong and I knew it was wrong.It was so wrong that I was willing to be so selfish that I wanted to take my own life to be relieved of this horrible feeling of being unwanted by anyone. I cant undo the damage this woman left on me, but I can make sure it never happens again.

Amen to it never happening again, Deeno!  I hate that your r/s led to you wanting to take your own life.  Glad you are here instead(!) and that you are learning how to not repeat this kind of r/s.  Good for you for digging up that painful stuff like not being validated and/or having anyone cheering you on as a young man. 

I want to do what you are doing... .figure it out so it never happens again.  Though I am afraid of it too.  Which is why I started this thread.  But I guess the "good news" is that this r/s was SO extreme in SO many ways (even the good ways) that the fear of avoiding the truth is finally stronger than the fear of facing it.  I've spent 30+ years avoiding it... .time to dig in.  Let's eat!

[Deeno02]

Really good topic. Ive been struggling the last day or two wondering if Im a good man.

Really about the only thing Im greatful for is that this b/u dug up stuff from my childhood that Im working on. Being ignored, left alone and never validated in anything as a child. Playing Hockey, Football and Volleyball at a standout level with no one in the stands.

Then this relationship were I was mentally, verbally and emotionally abused because I let my fear of lonliness/abandonment and low self worth keep me hanging on to something that was wrong and I knew it was wrong.It was so wrong that I was willing to be so selfish that I wanted to take my own life to be relieved of this horrible feeling of being unwanted by anyone. I cant undo the damage this woman left on me, but I can make sure it never happens again.

Amen to it never happening again, Deeno!  I hate that your r/s led to you wanting to take your own life.  Glad you are here instead(!) and that you are learning how to not repeat this kind of r/s.  Good for you for digging up that painful stuff like not being validated and/or having anyone cheering you on as a young man. 

I want to do what you are doing... .figure it out so it never happens again.  Though I am afraid of it too.  Which is why I started this thread.  But I guess the "good news" is that this r/s was SO extreme in SO many ways (even the good ways) that the fear of avoiding the truth is finally stronger than the fear of facing it.  I've spent 30+ years avoiding it... .time to dig in.  Let's eat!

It's hard. But I am a good man. As I progressed in Therapy, as they say, the truth hurts. And it does. I hope you have a good T to help you along as mine helped me. It's her loss, as the replacement will be a loss, etc. etc. There's someone out there waiting on us to have a great relationship with. Hang tough!

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Reclaiming, your situation was not atypical at all. Difficulties showed up almost immediately in my relationship too. There were some moments of idealization but very quickly her impatience surfaced, very quickly the crazy surfaced and very quickly the judgmental chastising, mocking queen surfaced, the tension was almost scary, I wasn't prepared . But I also saw the beauty in her and also the wounded bird but that doesn't mean that we were conned.

Hey Limbo, thanks for affirming I am not alone in the bad behavior surfacing so soon.  I think that is part of what I give myself such a hard time about.  I was stunned and knew it was bad behavior yet I proceeded.  That is hard to reconcile in my head.  Like yeah, he was cool, interesting, smart, attractive, etc but still?  And yet, I just kept on going.  I have to make peace with that part. 

The good news is I learned I want a successful r/s.  I want a deeply committed, connected r/s.  I thought I didn't care so much... .maybe hence the bad partner selection (on-going theme... .not just pwBPD).  I had never wanted to talk to a man so much in my life.  I am glad to now know how much that means to me. 

To get personal, I remember probably two weeks into the relationship and my ex (we were boozed) and I had just made love. I push myself up and look at her and she says "did we just make love"? Imagine how weird that was for me, especially not knowing BPD even existed.

It's hard enough dealing with life and relationships when your mind isn't playing tricks on you, imagine if it were. If your ex was not BPD, then maybe you were conned, but if your ex was BPD, then you were dealing with a person who functions on a different plane.

I bet that was a total mind-___.  Like w h a t ?  So much of it came from left-field and made no sense.  I am hard on myself about this but you are right... .back then there was no context.  I didn't know what was happening.  It was so confusing.  I tried to so hard to make sense of it, make it right.  He was so smart, so perceptive, so articulate that I believed that he knew what he was talking about.  That I must have done something wrong if he saw it the way he did.  Early on he said I just "chose to be suspicious."  Though I am genuinely not a suspicious person.  But I am smart (which, of course, is part of what makes this so darn confusing) and so questioned him about a very specific thing that made no sense.  It quickly became all about my choice to question as if his behavior had nothing to do with it.  In hindsight, my question was so legitimate.  I just forgot in the moment.  I should have pressed the matter.  I shouldn't have let him off the hook.  I went down the path of defending myself as if I were at fault.     

There were so many moments like that.  It was so confusing.  I felt like I couldn't trust myself.  When really it was the environment that couldn't be trusted.   

But I guess that is the thing I am most left with: afraid that I cannot trust myself.   I abandoned me in those moments.  I am not even being critical of myself.  Just factual.  I tossed out my version of reality for his.  And that is what is hard to live with.  I started this thread b/c I was feeling afraid to look into the deep and dark places of me.  Part of me is afraid to trust me b/c I feel like this r/s proves me untrustworthy.  But I imagine that is precisely where my healing will begin.  By choosing to trust me.  By showing up for me now.  I can't change the past but I can do something different now. 

SO glad to have y'all.  Heartfelt thanks... .

[myself]

By choosing to trust me.  By showing up for me now.  I can't change the past but I can do something different now. 

[ReclaimingMyLife]

By choosing to trust me.  By showing up for me now.  I can't change the past but I can do something different now. 

Thank you, myself

[jhkbuzz]

But I guess that is the thing I am most left with: afraid that I cannot trust myself.   I abandoned me in those moments.  I am not even being critical of myself.  Just factual.  I tossed out my version of reality for his.  And that is what is hard to live with.  I started this thread b/c I was feeling afraid to look into the deep and dark places of me.  Part of me is afraid to trust me b/c I feel like this r/s proves me untrustworthy.  But I imagine that is precisely where my healing will begin.  By choosing to trust me.  By showing up for me now.  I can't change the past but I can do something different now. 

I think that fear - of not being able to trust yourself - is a common one at the end of these relationships.  I know it's something I struggle with.  As you read through these boards you'll see that other people struggle as well, although they don't always name it with such clarity.

I've not figured it out yet by any means, but this is what I suspect: as I begin to understand my own patterns and triggers more thoroughly, I will more clearly understand why I stayed and how I got lost in the chaos in the r/s.  Once I understand that, I think the fear will be gone.

I suspect the same may be true for you.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I've not figured it out yet by any means, but this is what I suspect: as I begin to understand my own patterns and triggers more thoroughly, I will more clearly understand why I stayed and how I got lost in the chaos in the r/s.  Once I understand that, I think the fear will be gone.

I suspect the same may be true for you.

jhkbuzz, I think you are right.  It feels hard to trust myself because I don't know how in the heck I got to where I ended up.  So very far off-course.  But with knowledge/understanding of the patterns, behaviors and driving forces, I will have more confidence about where I went, how I got there and how to go somewhere different next time.  How to go where I actually WANT to go.  Which should reduce the fear.  The scary but necessary thing is to trust myself (ourselves) before we've proven ourselves.  But that proof can never be obtained if we don't show up for the learning.  Just maybe the proof is in our willingness!

Let's hope so!  Because I can't think of another, better way to the other side

[myself]

Start with the things you've already proven to yourself. "I'm a good friend. Considerate. Etc." That will be an ever-growing list which will boost your self-esteem, and will help you follow through with the stuff still to get to.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Start with the things you've already proven to yourself. "I'm a good friend. Considerate. Etc." That will be an ever-growing list which will boost your self-esteem, and will help you follow through with the stuff still to get to.

Will do.  I have got lots of good evidence.  Thanks again, myself.