how to get her to admit BPD

[joshman678]

My girlfriend of 5 and a half years finally "ended" our relationship about a month ago. During my sadness and depression over the past few weeks, I wrote her a long 12 page letter, which I didn't actually end up giving her; writing was more of my own therapy. After reaching my wits end, I began reading a lot of "coping with breakups" literature and came across BPD. Wow! The bulk of my lengthy letter to her describing our issues is PRECISELY identical to the signs of someone with BPD. The intent of the letter I wrote was begging her to come to terms with the real issues because if she doesn't, she will have a life of challenges and hardship; although, everything in the letter I'd told her a million times before.

My question here is, does anyone have advice to get her to break thru denial? She goes insane when I suggest she has a mental disconnect. No matter how I word it... .nicely, or brutally honest. I've described it as her "seeing the world thru drunk goggles" as her insane illogical circular reasoning spirals around and around.

I feel like if I approach her family, she will see that as sabotage and do something malicious to me. She blames me for our relationship failing because I never "show her love". I try explaining that my love has gradually become encased in a protective shell that my heart has built from time after time of the rollercoaster of issues. I accept that this is probably a lost cause and I should move on. But I still love her and even if we aren't together I wish I could get her help so that she has a chance at a decent life. Of course, I wish that life could be with me, but I accept that I may never be able to heal the scars that encase my heart.

Any advice on breaking thru severe/violently defensive denial be immensely appreciated.

[Thread]

I just recently realized I may have some codependency issues by reading articles on this site. I have a tendency to always want to help people I care about even if they don't see it or want to help themselves.

In this case the BPD really needs to want to get help, not for you, but truly and honestly for themselves. I wish I could give you a success story, but I faced the same issues for YEARS. My BPD is in therapy, but I think he thinks he doesn't have issues. He likes to call it being "dramatic" or "over-exaggerating", or the one I hate most "hiking."

I had left him for a year. Marriage separation. That made him realize I wasn't going to put up with the yelling, name calling and crying that was some serious scary sobbing which would turn into hyperventilation and vomiting.

For me to speak with him the black statements toward my character had to end. He needed to be in therapy weekly. He did this for 8 months. I agreed to work on our marriage (again this is before I knew exactly what BPD really truly was) and the agreement was he would need to see a therapist for 6 months straight weekly. No missing appointments. He made the commitment, but guess what he never followed through. It took me having to tell him I was going to file for divorce, because he didn't honor his promise and was spiraling back into the BPD rages almost 2-4 times a week... .To the point of getting back on my anxiety meds.   

He is now in therapy. Demanding every two weeks and I had to stay strong to the weekly sessions. But I hope he isn't just going for me, because I know things will not change if it's just for me  glad he's going though it's the first step to a better functioning life.

I am sorry that you are going through this! But you are in good hands here and are definitely ahead of the game by being on his site! There is so much support and learning! just remember to stay strong to your needs as well and create healthy boundaries. I realiszed I had coddled some of the behaviors I should not have, because the attention or love no matter how much I tried to feed the emptiness will never fill my BPD unless I abandoned everything including myself to always be at his disposal, and still I'm sure that wouldn't even satisfy the void.

Hugs   glad you're here!

[EaglesJuju]

Hi joshman678, 

Welcome aboard.

I am sorry you are going through such a painful experience. It is painful when a relationship ends. It becomes especially painful when you have experienced a roller coaster of emotions throughout the relationship. 

I understand that you want to inform your person with BPD (pwBPD) about her behavior so you can help her. From my experience, it can be very difficult to tell someone that you think they have a mental illness. This is especially true for pwBPD, since they are hypersensitive to criticism. I understand that you want to help push her in a direction for help.

From my experience with my pwBPD, seeking help is totally reliant on them. I mentioned BPD once to my pwBPD and he withdrew and gave me the silent treatment. Later I found out it reinforced his own inner feelings of self-loathing and self-hatred. 

Sharing your story really helps with healing. Perhaps you can share more of your story?

Looking forward to reading your response.

[LeonVa]

I feel you joshman678. My BPD wife (we are separated now) says the exact same thing.  You never show me your love as if I'm incapable of it, almost a stereotype ingrained so deep into her brain, she can't see what I have done for her and believe me, I have done everything a husband can do.  Never missed a special occasion, took care of our son whenever I can and whenever she needed rest / space, so on and so forth.

Though, after multiple outbursts, at home as well as at work, she realized she might have a TINY problem, so I jokingly pointed out that it might have to do with her period (when I knew it probably has to do with BPD), but I was not brave enough to point that out straight to her.  She did a few research, so she ended up believing she simply lacked B12 as it helps woman with PMS.

She's a vegetarian mostly and B12 is only available in meat, so that made sense and I was glad that at least, she was aware of her "temper" issue and she was seeking "treatment".  It was a good first step... .

But boy, that didn't last long before her final out of this world outburst, ended up calling police with false allegations against me. Six cops showed up and I was lucky I didn't get arrested as the police officers thought she was over reacting to the situation. However, that was it for me. I simply don't have it in me anymore.  

In retrospect, I should have taken the opportunity and described BPD to her, as I really wasn't helping her.   Maybe take an indirect approach? Say buy a BPD related book and just lay the book on the table or something. Maybe she'll be curious enough to to pick it up and read? If she gets confrontational about it, then simply say you are just interested in reading a different kind of topic.  I wish I have done it, the result could turn out differently.

[Panda39]

You can't make someone do something they aren't ready to do.  The only person you can change is yourself.

[joshman678]

Thanks everyone who has replied to my post. I’ve never joined a support group before.  It’s a painful situation and reading your input and own personal experiences definitely helps. I guess sometimes when we're hurting we forget what we know to be true. For some reason I hadn't realized that she has to want to help herself and that there's probably no magic thing to say or do to get her to suddenly “get it”.

@EaglesJuju Our relationship has worked "backwards" from what would be considered normal. We've been together for five & a half years, which is pretty long for me being in my early 30's (1/6th of my life). We moved in together early on and were extremely excited about each other. Gradually my love for her began to become suppressed, as I would get hurt and reel back when she was a nasty to me for no reason. After a year we moved into separate residences but stayed together as a couple; we have slowly and gradually grown farther and father apart. For a long time I thought I simply "fell out of love", but when we would breakup it would absolutely devastate me. I've been through enough serious relationships to know I'm capable of leaving a relationship without having heartache when I was breaking it off with someone I didn't truly love. This made my heartache with this person so much more confusing because I could no longer feel "in love" or happy when I was with her, but when I was without her it was the worst pain of my life. 

A couple years ago I decided that I do truly love her, but my love is buried deep beneath years of residual build up from my heart’s need to protect itself from her.  She has been so unpredictable that it’s like my internal defenses won’t allow me to let my guard down for even a moment. I’ve tried to explain this to her, but she manipulates it into something being “wrong with me”; completely denying the fact that she caused this evolution in my expression of feelings.

One thing I've never done is held anything back from her; I always give her my honest evaluation of things. This always results in chaos.  However, I’ve never walked away from a fight wishing I’d been more honest.   

The hardest part for me in this situation is that there are SO many things about her that I like.  I realize there are a million fish in the sea, but I really think it would take a miracle for me to find someone containing the sheer volume of things that I like about her.  The hard part is that is all ruined by this small number of issues.  While the issues are only a handful, they powerfully outweigh the bushels of positive things about her.  I guess this is the hardest part to wrestle with.  I’ve had an impossible time walking away. I keep circling back to “a bird in hand is worth two in the bush”.  If only she could fix this problem, I would have a perfect mate. The idea of starting the search all over seems daunting.

To make things more difficult, she works with me in a small office. Everything I’ve read about trying to survive and navigate breakups is to remove yourself from their presence entirely.  This is impossible without one of us quitting our jobs; and we are both paid very well in relation to our education and experience levels, so job-hopping isn’t really an easy option to face.

It’s tough to summarize everything I’ve gone through with her…the issues are like a web and seem to interconnect and feed off each other. 

Here are a few-

She can’t seem to hear her own voice when she talks to others.  She talks to them in an undue condescending or “b*tchy” tone, and then the respond to her back with attitude.  She is utterly clueless that she talks to them the way she does, so she just thinks people are jerks to her for no reason.  She’s commented that she knows everyone in our office hates her; which is true (probably not actually “hate”, but they are always irritated with her).  I’ve tried to point out to her that everyone in office has a problem with her and she has a problem with all of them, yet none of them have any issues whatsoever with each other.  She can’t accept the concept of a “common denominator”.

She uses absolute extremes with things, like she either has to be someone’s best friend or she’s their absolute enemy.  She can’t seem to treat people with a middle ground.  If she does something in her job that I have to ask her to slightly modify, she instead flips and swings to the polar opposite of what needs to be done, usually “well then I just won’t do it at all”.

She uses extreme exaggerations during arguments telling me that I “always” do something that she doesn’t like or that I “never” do something that she wants.  She applies this to something that I maybe did once or didn’t do once…So our arguments spiral into 3 – 4 hour long bouts because she’ll make a statement that’s semi-true but is loaded with gross exaggerations.  I can’t simply tell her that she’s wrong, I have to pick apart each things she’s exaggerating, explain why it’s an exaggeration, and THEN try to argue that actual point of the main argument.  The simplest argument has a dozen tangents, and those tangents each have a dozen tangents of their own.

Something I’ve said numerous times, (which I’m not proud of, and is out of my normal calm collect approach) is “I don’t know which person I’m talking to right now”.  I used to think she was multiple personality, but I really don’t think that’s the case.  She really doesn’t have different personalities, but we’ll have a long multi-hour argument where at the very end she breaks down and admits some things…and then days or weeks later we’re back to the same argument.  It’s like one side of her brain has a conversation with me and doesn’t tell the other side, and then I’m dealing with the side of her brain that didn’t get the memo.

She has some sick fetish for being justified in scolding people.  She looks for every opportunity to seize the moment.  If she witnesses someone is unquestionably in the wrong, she jumps on the opportunity to police them over it.  In fact, she wants to be a cop.  This makes me cringe because it would only “feed the demon” inside of her.

Anyway, I could vent all day about the myriad of issues that stem from her disorder.  The bottom line is that I wish I could help her.  I love her.  It destroys me to have to let her go.  She finally broke up with me about a month ago, although there’s never a guarantee that the break up will stick.  We’ve broken up dozens of times and always manage to come back together; although this time seems different.  It seems like it’s actually for real.

She broke up with me because she decided that I’m a cold-hearted, selfish, unsupportive partner who doesn’t make her feel loved or appreciated. It’s crippling my heart to go down like this.  It’s impossible to cope with the one you love thinking something that’s completely false about you and leaving you for it.  It makes me cry just typing this.  If we both came to a mutual agreement that we weren’t right for each other, that would still make me sad but I could let it pass.  There’s something in me that just can’t handle her sailing off into the rest of her life, forever believing something that isn’t true.  It would be like having your spouse leave you because they thought they caught you cheating on them and you genuinely and absolutely weren’t.  It’s like the death penalty for the wrongly accused.

About a year ago I finally told her I wanted a break; a real break.  I admitted that I wasn’t happy because of how she acts and that as long as I wasn’t happy, I couldn’t give her what she needed to be happy. I told her that instead of a breakup, I proposed taking a break, where we promised absolute faithfulness but we would not talk or communicate for anything other than work. I also gave her 2 conditions; she had to get psychiatric help and she had to tell her entire family that they weren’t to expect me at Christmas because of our break (she was supposed to make it clear that the break was due to her behavior).  This somehow rocked her boat and within a couple weeks she was crying to me that she actually suspected for a long time that she is bipolar. She promised she would get help.  She did send out a group message to her family, but it wasn’t worded in a way that made her sound responsible…it was along the lines of “we both have things we want to straighten out”.  It wasn’t a total fulfillment of my terms, but I caved anyway because she finally showed some signs of acknowledgement of the problem coupled with my pity for her mental condition (which really isn’t her fault, she was dealt a crappy hand, abusive upbringing, etc.).  We abandoned the break and resumed the relationship quickly.  Then within no time she was right back to denying the content of those conversations and needless to say she didn’t go to a therapist. 

I’ll admit she was on pretty “good behavior” for the past year, however, it’s all been turned around and now I’m the one she’s blaming for not showing her the love that according to her she “deserves”.  Everyone deserves love, but sometimes there are compensating factors as to why that isn’t happening.

The “surviving breakups” self-help book I’m reading says that if a BPD breaks up with you (which they claim is rare) that you should “RUN and not look back”.  I’m having a hard time with that advice.  As I’ve already said, even if ultimately I have to let her go…I just wish I could help her see the light so that she won’t live a life of struggle.  There’s another guy out there who will find himself in the same position I’m in if she doesn’t face this.

Sorry if I got carried away here.  It just spilled out.  I guess that’s why I’m here.  Thanks for listening.

[LeonVa]

@joshman678, thanks for sharing you story,  are you sure you are not dating my ex wife? I live in Northern Virginia. 

The story is almost exactly the same as mine, minus the police calls of course. My ex wife had the exact same problems at work and she changed her job so far once per year or less. The current job is probably the most stable one so far. 1 year + 1 month.  Some of the comments her coworkers said to her.  "You make it so hard for us to love you" or warnings from the management like "You are confrontational... .you need to handle situations with tact... .act professional in office... ." so on and so forth.

Just like you, I've tried to help her to reach the "middle" ground, but it's just so hard for them to do as they split into black and white. 

Honestly, I understand how you think.  You have good times together, they have a lot of great qualities and some stuff you share with her comes so easy that you don't think it will go as smooth if you are in another relationship.  While they might or might not be true, but just like you said, the bad out-weights the good, it becomes a constant struggle.  There might be a period of relative good behaviors that lasts month to a year (for me at least), but then it comes right back AND will be worse than before.

I'm not going to convince you to stay or leave, but at least know this, you are not the only one felt this way about her, your coworkers, you, and your families probably feel the same way. That says something.   

You are also right that I believe it as well, the next guy will face a world of hurt just like us if she doesn't change.   Too bad we have a toddler son together, so I can't get rid of her for at least another 15.5 years, but you have a choice.  You sound like a great person, I think you will and DESERVE to find someone worthy of your love.

[tortuga]

joshman678;

Elements of your story seem very familiar to me.

"bipolar" and "pms" are pretty typical misdiagnoses for BPD.  In fact, those of us who have only been around BPD female partners, probably don't know what normal "pms" is like.  So we can easily conclude that these emotional problems are simply "pms".  That's very wrong.

She has been so unpredictable that it’s like my internal defenses won’t allow me to let my guard down for even a moment.

It does not take many years of living like this to take a serious toll on your health.  I am not kidding about this.  We codependents think that this must just be our "lot in life" or we like to think of ourselves as some kind of relationship superhero.  But we're actually only human.  The stress builds up, and we begin to develop stress-related disorders.  We also develop maladaptive behavior of our own, (unhealthy ways of dealing with these unpleasant relationship situations).  

At a minimum, if you're planning on donning that cape, and staying in such a relationship, then I would strongly urge you to seek individual therapy for yourself.  :)evelop some healthy communication skills, coping habits, find some hobby or a way to spend at least some of your time on your own, away from your BPD partner, on at least a weekly (or more often) basis.  Start a physical fitness program to help your body to cope with the extreme stress you're under.  Practice good eating habits. Keep your heart healthy. Try to develop healthy friendships outside the relationship. (I find that my friendships mostly get "sabotaged" either directly, or indirectly, by my association with my uBPD partner - - I have had to keep those friendships isolated from my relationship - not necessarily secret, but at least at a safe distance.)  This way, you learn how to relate to "normal" people. You develop more healthy relationship skills (over time).  You learn to see the difference between a normal response, as a baseline, and an abnormal response.

Finally - give up any idea that you're going to "convince" your uBPD partner to "snap out of it" or "wake up" and see that they have issues and need to get help.  It's "magical thinking".  Which is a defense mechanism (on your part) to try to deal with the pain of being in this situation.  I think it may be related to either the "denial" or "bargaining" phase of the typical grieving process. uBPD is THEIR problem, and their problem to accept, and deal with.  It is impossible to force a cure onto someone who does not accept that they have a problem.  They have to get a grip on their own feelings, and they have to learn to understand them, they have to allow themselves to FEEL them, and then they have to develop healthy coping skills to navigate their way through life while saddled with these difficult feelings.  You need to simply accept - that they are the way they are.  Only then can you look for your own way out of this maze.

[joshman678]

LeonVA & Tortuga -

Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to share those detailed insights with me. It helps. A LOT. I'm very glad I found this website. This has been a strange few days... .going from half a decade of emotional turmoil and being completely unaware that BPD even existed, to discovering & learning about BPD, to finding out I'm not alone. Of course the couple friends of mine who I share my personal struggles with have told me to move on, their input doesn't hold the same weight because they haven't been in this kind of situation. It means a lot to hear your input because you clearly know what it's like. Thanks again.

If anyone else is reading this post, please do chime in. I'm really grateful that there are people out there who take the time to help someone they don't know. I read every word, several times over.

[cosmonaut]

Hi joshman,



I really understand where you are coming from.  It's a noble thing to want to help your gf, but it's not advised to tell her that she has BPD.  This article explains more of the reasons why this is the case.  One of the major underlying beliefs that pwBPD have is that they are defective and broken.  And they feel profound shame at this defectiveness.  While we often mean well in trying to help our partner by telling them we think they may have a disorder, it is often interpreted by our partners as invalidation and shame.  Thus, they respond to wall off that pain, and rather than helping it only makes the situation worse.  It's a frustrating reality, isn't it?  It's best to allow a trained professional help your gf to better understand herself and slowly come to terms with herself.  You might not even be able to suggest therapy to her right now, no matter how gently, if you are a trigger for her.  If that's the case, you might want to consider giving her some space and see if her emotions return to baseline before engaging her again.

I know this is hard to hear.  It was for me too.  I took the advice not to tell my ex, and I do still think it was the right thing to do, hard as it was.  Anyway, I'm really sorry that you are going through all of this.  I know from my own experiences how difficult this can be.  Hang in there, and keep posting.  We're here for you.

[OnceConfused]

don't worry about not finding another beautiful person out there for you. Trust me they are out there. You cannot see the sun while you are in the middle of a storm but yes the sun is above that dark cloud.

I went through it and now a very happy married man to a beautiful wife who is what my xBPDgf was not.

By the way, the hope of telling BPD that they have BPD is a futile effort. No one in the world wants to be told by their SO that they are mentally ill. Often, they attribute or blame their inner turmoil on their SO, the nons.

I attempted to tell my xbpgf to seek help, but then the way the eyes turned COLD and she looked away immediately, told me that I was barking up the wrong tree. I got up and left her house, which turned out to be the best decision I made.

[joshman678]

I've been getting pretty down over accepting the truth that there's seemingly no hope in this matter. I felt better after first finding out what BPD was, taking comfort that I'm not alone and learning about the BPD condition. But now its really sinking in how hopeless the matter seems. It's hard to just let go of the one you love because you know that you can't help them and they will probably ruin your life. Its really hard to accept. Meanwhile she's telling me that I don't care about her. I wish I had learned about this earlier in life so I could have known not to get so invested in someone with BPD.

[Thread]

She knows you care about her.

Mine would say the same to me all the time. I feel for you and it hurts to love someone and h folieave them act as if it wasn't real.

Do your best to know what she is saying is she deeply feels she is not worthy of you caring for her. Sadly, but that is what her feelings and mind are telling her so she then turns it around to "you don't care about me." May it be manipulation to show care or what she deeply has always believed it's just once again part of the BPD... .Again my BPD husband goes through that often - I don't love him, he doesn't feel like a husband, were in the same room but it's like living separate lives. (We work together and are around each other more than normal marriages)

It's a difficult thing to wrap your head around and causes confusion!

[cosmonaut]

I wouldn't necessarily say that things are hopeless, joshman.  There are effective treatments for BPD, and recovery is possible.  So, I do think there is hope.  The problem for us as partners, is that we are not in control of that.  We can't make it happen.  And that's why it feels so hopeless for us, because we don't have the ability to remedy the situation ourselves.  And that is very hard to accept, and even harder to deal with.  We love our partners, and many of us would happily commit our lives to them if they would only get the help that they need.  But we can't force them, and indeed the treatment will only truly be effective if they willingly seek it themselves.  It is something that they have to do alone.

I know how hard that is to deal with, and frankly I know it stinks.  I wish it were otherwise and you and your partner could live happily ever after.  I wish that for all of us.

So, there is a ray of hope, but it is one that we cannot control.