Help

[XD8]

Sorry for the long post but I feel like I have to explain everything in detail so that I can get some sound advice.

Well to say this has been the most bizarre relationship of my life would be the biggest understatement. It lasted almost a year. We are both in our early 30's and met through some common friends. The first few months were amazing and although we lived in different cities we used to take a short flight to see each other almost every weekend. After a couple of months things started to change. She started pointing out all the flaws in me and I started to get the feeling that she wasn’t really happy/satisfied with me. At the same time she would keep calling me all the time and it felt like that even though she wasn’t happy she was still clinging on to me.

Every time we would have an argument it would blow out of proportion and as a result I would stop talking to her and she always called and made up soon enough. The longest time we went without talking to each other was 3 days.

I had been going back and forth in my head about leaving her but I just couldn’t get myself to do it. In spite of everything I did really love his girl and I thought deep down inside she did too. The last month that we were together she seemed to be a little distant and it seemed like she was withdrawing from me and after our last big explosive fight we both decided to end it.

A couple of days later after having processed everything I felt horrible. This was the girl who claimed that I was the love of her life and had said I was the only person she ever loved. It didn’t make any sense in ending things just for bickering (but according to her these were big episodes that overwhelmed her). So when she called me a few days later I tried to reconcile in a logical and rational way. I also suggested counseling to make things better. I had always suspected that there was something not quite right with her but was unable to ever put a finger on it. However when I asked her to think about reconciliation is the first time I started to see the absolute craziness in her. It was like talking to a different person. Her voice and attitude was ice cold with total and absolute indifference.

She said that I wanted to reconcile just because I wanted to control her.  It was devastating to hear this. Only two weeks before this girl wanted to leave her job (she has a very high level finance job) and move to a different city just for me. I was talking logically and trying to reason with her but she wasn’t having any of it. I even decided to put my ego aside and took the blame for everything but incredibly she didn’t even let me complete. Also at this point I had started to suspect that there was someone else she had been talking to (I couldn’t prove it and she flat out denied it). As heartbroken as I was I decided if she could turn on a dime like this maybe it wasn’t even worth trying to reconcile so I withdrew and decided to cut off contact.

What followed was even more bizarre behavior.  She started calling/messaging me almost every day saying things like “I love you” and “I miss you”. When I asked her why she was saying these things now and if she wanted to get back together, she replied saying that there was no chance for us to be together again and that she only wanted us to be friends. I told her that she was crazy in thinking this way because only a couple of weeks before that she had said she would do anything for us to be together.

In spite of my repeatedly telling her not to contact me she still keeps messaging and calling saying things like “I love you” and “I miss you” usually followed by another message saying that she wants to be by herself for now. When I stopped responding she messaged me saying that I was the one acting cold and strange. Unbelievable!

I am sorry for ranting like this but these past two months have been hell for me. Its like I m stuck in this never ending limbo and no matter what I do I can’t get out of it. I love this girl but every step that I take is wrong according to her. When I try to make things better and get closer she thinks I want to control her and when I try to let go she keeps coming back. I don’t know what to do anymore. I can’t concentrate on anything - my work, my social life and everything else is suffering as a result. How can someone be so cold and yet so clingy at the same time? I don’t know whether to feel bad for her or to hate her for she has done. I am just really confused.

Now she called me yesterday and told me she was going to be in my city for some work at the end of this month. She also said she wanted to return a bottle of wine that we picked up together. I felt bad and stupidly suggested that she should get it with her so that we can have it together once she gets here. This definitely lifted her mood and I sensed later on that it might have been a trap. I am just trying to understand what she really wants from me because she clearly said no to being together. Does she want sex? Has she changed her mind and wants to get back? Is she keeping me around as a backup? Or does she truly care about me and wants me in her life as a friend?

I am new here and I only recently heard about “Borderline Personality Disorder”. I have tried to connect the dots and make sense of her crazy behavior. So I listed a few things down that I found strange about her and it would be helpful if some of the knowledgeable people here can help me make a fair assessment if this girl has BPD.

1)   Initial couple of months I could do nothing wrong. As the relationship moved along she caught on to my every flaw and kept pointing them out.

2)   She had constant mood swings throughout the day she would go from being loving happy to irritated and bored within minutes.

3)   She used to be inconsolable at times after an argument and would either start raging at me or would start to cry hysterically. She once said any kind of criticism crushes her completely.

4)   When we first started seeing each other she used to make me promise that I would never leave her.

5)   Claimed that I was the only person she ever loved in spite of being married before and having a string of relationships post her divorce.

6)   Keeps contacting me after the break up and goes on saying things like “love you” and “miss you” but at the same time doesn’t want to get back with me.

7)   Put up some of our pics on Facebook for the first time AFTER OUR BREAK UP!

8)   Used to unashamedly flirt with this one friend of mine and would often get annoyed if I didn’t call him to join us when we were going out.

9)   Refusing/delaying taking back some of her stuff that’s still lying at my place.

10)   Was jealous to the extent that she would physically hurt me (slapping, scratching etc)  if I even talked to one of my ex s who are all still good friends of mine.

11)   Extremely petty/miserly

12)   I had to change my plan one weekend and couldn’t go see her because my best friend was having a party. She got so anxious and felt so helpless that she ended going to a counselor.

I still love this girl and but I really don't understand her behavior. At this point I don't even want a full/proper relationship with her. This girl has really hurt me and I dont think I can ever feel the same way about her again. I am just looking at getting closure. Keeping that in mind what do I do when she comes here.

My options are -

A. If you guys believe she has BPD.  I can meet her and tell her about it and offer to  help her in any way possible.

B. Have sex with her one last time and cut all contact.

C. Have sex with her and keep in touch. Keep the sex/friendship going.

D. Be rude and refuse to meet her. 

Again I am not trying to get her back. I just want to do the best thing for me right now in order to move on. So keeping that in mind what option would be the best way forward for me.

Would appreciate any help that I can get right now... .

[Circle]

Why, yes, of course you are in the right place. Welcome to the Twilight Zone! Start reading the articles through the website. That will illuminate you. Also, start reading others' posts. Everyone is in the same boat here. I don't think talking about the fact that you think she has BPD, is going to do much good. Nor is expecting her to change how she is. She is what she is. As far as your approach, you will have to choose. I wouldn't be expecting a normal relationship with her, ever. The idealization phase in the beginning is typical; devaluation comes later. It's all in the articles. It stinks, doesn't it? Kind of strange that what our culture portrays as romantic love, is really a form of Borderline love. Falling hard, heavy and fast.

     The key to surviving these people is to set up boundaries. Decide what things you will not tolerate and stick with it. Even if you just want a friendship with her, this is vital. Otherwise you will be used and abused. It makes sense anyways and is a way to just logically think over what you won't tolerate. For example; I won't keep a phone conversation going with her if she insults me. Or, I won't pay for her stuff if we aren't in a committed relationship. Those are just examples; you've got to figure out what you will and won't tolerate.

     But yeah, you aren't crazy. This is real. It sounds just like a cluster-b personality disorder (look those up on Mayo Clinic). So, now you know you are dealing with a damaged person. And, often times the reason we end up taking care of/accepting people like this is because of a co-dependent nature (look that up on here/articles). There are many approaches to the situation. The different 'boards' here address the different places you can be at in the relationship; Staying, Undecided, Leaving, Healthy Relationships, Self-Assesment, Family Law, etc.

     Best of Luck! Take care and See you on the boards.

[XD8]

Thanks Circle... .

The most frustrating part is that she can't make up her mind about what she wants from me. Is this behavior consistent with someone with BPD? Also when she says she misses me it genuinely seems like she does or is this her way of keeping me around as a backup? Should I meet her when she comes here?

[zulfiqar]

you do not need to go in cicrles and ask the same type of questions cause you already got an excellent advice. She is damaged and is going to damage you real bad. So now stop asking about her ask yourself what you're gonna do about it and WHAT DO YOU WANT. Forget about her issues you cant change her.

[XD8]

I know I cant change her. I have accepted that fact. The question I was asking is whether telling her that she has BPD could get me the closure that I have been seeking keeping in mind that she keeps contacting me and is probably as confused as I am. I just want to do the best thing for the both of us right now... .

[zulfiqar]

Well do what you need to do and leave her reactions to herself. You do not need a closure from her, you get closure when you decide that you want it. She can be genuinly sorry, confused etc but that will last for a while and then the cycle starts again.

Get your power back, decide what is best for you not her and then give yourself a closure if that is what you want. You do not need her validation.

[Aussie0zborn]

Wow, you have described all the classic traits of BPD - welcome to the family.

My options are -

A. If you guys believe she has BPD.  I can meet her and tell her about it and offer to  help her in any way possible.

Yes I believe but I'm not qualified to diagnose and you are not qualified to help. Common opinion is that telling them you suspect they have BPD is not a good idea. You can not help her in any way.

B. Have sex with her one last time and cut all contact.

That's not a gentlemanly thing to do and I would suggest that will be the most expensive sex you will ever have. Once you weigh up the great sex against all the grief you are going to have to endure, you will see its not worth it. Think with you big head. Just read around the forums to see what comes next. Children you wont be able to protect, dysfunction, courts, jail and finally... .broken man.

C. Have sex with her and keep in touch. Keep the sex/friendship going.

That's not your choice - that's always their choice. You think you can be in control of this type of situation? You have no idea what you have gotten yourself into.

D. Be rude and refuse to meet her. 

That's not rude - that's sensible. Tell her you're doing it for her.

                        *     *     *     *       *       *

If you want a life of emotional and often physical hell, then go right ahead and stay with her in whichever capacity but ask yourself what you want for your life, first.

You say you are in your early 30s? Ever married? Do you want to get married one day? Start a family? Well this is a good age to get real and to make wise choices in partners. The last thing one would want is to have children with the person you describe.

What she has said to you she has said to all the others before you but they have run as fast as they could and so you're the fall guy now, her new supply. That's all you are... .a "supply". You could have been anybody. She knows what to say and get you hooked. Don't be a sucker - you are wise enough to have identified the issues early on and seek advice. Now is a good time to use that wisdom to make your escape before you lose it from all the grief you will get.

You think it hurts now? It only gets worse and then when you get dumped you are a mere shadow of your former self. When you have weighed it up LOGICALLY, block her so that she can't contact you and run as fast as you can. Good luck.

[zulfiqar]

good advice.

i wish i was you,no kids no major bonding. I would ran and then I would ran some more.

[XD8]

Appreciate the help guys... .

Aussie0zborn - The main reason I wanted to meet her was to tell her that it wasn't my fault. At least not all of it was. I had been questioning my own sanity lately and just wanted to get this out of my system.

The last time I tried to convince her to get back with me, which was right after our break up, she was extremely cold and blamed everything on me. I still get up sometimes in the middle of the night thinking about that conversation.

But you are right no good would come out of it... .


zulfiqar- There was major bonding alright. At least I thought that there was... .

[Surg_Bear]

zulfiqar- There was major bonding alright. At least I thought that there was... .

Bonding? Or your attachment to someone who gave you great sex, but little else but major crazy?

Your laundry list of things wrong with the relationship and your opinions about her behavior- is great sex worth all of that?  I've had great sex for 2 periods in my life- both with my wife BEFORE we got married, both times.  Once married, the great sex pretty much dried up.  Now I am having to face that after being with this woman for 25 years of my life, "normal" is sex ONCE A YEAR.

I'm not having great sex once a year- the sex we have is completely focused on her pleasure, and has nothing really to do with me-except that I am the pleasure vehicle that she is riding.  Like in my marriage, nothing is about me-who I am as a man, or a person-  matters except that which benefits her needs, wants, and desires for her life.

You are not bonded any more than I am.

You have received a blessing- an opportunity to stop this soul sucking madness before it really starts:  The insanity really starts when you have the ring of obedience and subservience on your finger. Right now, all you have is a list of clues of what your life will be like.

Serve your nuts, and you'll wake up one day and look down to see them, and they will be obscured by the 12 extra inches around your waist, and you'll look at the middle aged man's face in the mirror to shave and ask that guy- was it worth it?

Is she worth handing your nuts over on a platter?

Don't have sex with her- it's not that good. 

Smokin' hot sex happens when you are doing it with someone who adores you for who you are, and cares about what they can give you as much (or more) as what they get.  Smoking hot sex occurs between two mature adults fully capable of truly loving each other.

Doesn't sound to me like either of you two are worthy of smoking hot sex.  You have half a chance- she does not.

My opinions, of course, as I don't really know either of you.

Take what you will-

Surg_Bear 

[forget-me-not]

Aussie0zborn - The main reason I wanted to meet her was to tell her that it wasn't my fault. At least not all of it was. I had been questioning my own sanity lately and just wanted to get this out of my system.




Unfortunately, telling her it wasn't your fault will not change her opinion , because to a pw BPD, feeling =facts. If she feels it was your fault, then no amount of facts or Logic will change her mind.

What's important is that YOU know it wasn't your fault and will come to a place where you are at peace with that fact, in other words, you look inside yourself for validation.

You KNOW you are a good person that did everything possible to salvage the relationship.

We've all been at the stage where we question our own sanity , no doubt .

Regaining self-esteem after this kind of relationship is a process, but you will get there!

[forget-me-not]

Aak! I messed up the quote above. Apologies.

[XD8]

Surg_Bear - I am sorry about what you are going through. I don't think I made myself clear. It's not really about the sex. The sex wasn't even that great in the first place. It's just that I feel like being close to her one last time for old times sake. Things weren't always bad you know and just because she might have BPD doesn't mean she's not a real person without feelings. They maybe out of line but I am sure she does have feelings. She's just buried them deep inside because she doesn't want to get hurt. That would explain her crazy behaviour... .

forget-me-not - You are right she probably wouldn't understand and that's why I have deciided not to see her again.

But the thing that's really bothering me is this- If I am the one who is more mature doesn't that make me more responsible also. If I leave without saying anything then what's the difference between me and her. She also left because she thought I had issues and if I do the same am I not being just as selfish as her... .

Again I am not trying to get back with her but I did really love this girl... surely the least I can do is to try to make her understand... for her own sake... for her future...

[Silveron]

XD8,

  You can't make her understand, trust us.  I've been married to my BPD-wife for 11 years and it is a hell.  You need to really read up on what BPD is about.  BPD is not curable (at least IMO) and whatever you say to her she is going to use against you.  You can't save her, you can't make her 'see the light', you can't right things.  She is damage probably because of her childhood and the only thing that will help her is counseling and she has to want that for herself.  Most BPDs don't ever get to see that they have issues nevertheless act on them and get help for it.

  When you are dealing with a BPD unless you prepare yourself to be mistreated most of your life and also learn a lot in psychology then it's best to just move on.  I can understand you love her, but her love is conditional.  She sees black & white.  She will love you or hate you.  There is no in between.  They almost lack a conscious I guess you can say.

  Luckily you found out before you got too involved, my wife didn't show her signs until after we got married.  I've been lied to, cheated on, verbally & physically abused and the list can go on & on.  I stay because of my daughter, I can't leave her in that wolf's den alone.  Don't go down the path I went down.  Run away.  And look for red flags with the next girl you start to have a relationship with.

[Joel2:25]

XD8,

  You can't make her understand, trust us.  I've been married to my BPD-wife for 11 years and it is a hell.  You need to really read up on what BPD is about.  BPD is not curable (at least IMO) and whatever you say to her she is going to use against you.  You can't save her, you can't make her 'see the light', you can't right things.  She is damage probably because of her childhood and the only thing that will help her is counseling and she has to want that for herself.  Most BPDs don't ever get to see that they have issues nevertheless act on them and get help for it.

  When you are dealing with a BPD unless you prepare yourself to be mistreated most of your life and also learn a lot in psychology then it's best to just move on.  I can understand you love her, but her love is conditional.  She sees black & white.  She will love you or hate you.  There is no in between.  They almost lack a conscious I guess you can say.

  Luckily you found out before you got too involved, my wife didn't show her signs until after we got married.  I've been lied to, cheated on, verbally & physically abused and the list can go on & on.  I stay because of my daughter, I can't leave her in that wolf's den alone.  Don't go down the path I went down.  Run away.  And look for red flags with the next girl you start to have a relationship with.

Wow. I'm reading these posts with heavy heart. My dear one changed so much in his early 20s. Was he depressed? ADHD? Bipolar? Just a jerk? Repressed anger? Wounded child in mans body-Good Lord we've discussed it all at $125 an hour for YEARS and guess what... .wait for it... .Oh yes, it's all MY fault. It's not a personality disorder. It's me. He's fine and doesn't need counseling per him. It's all because no one (cue the SCREAMING here... .)(ME!, The counsellors, the pastors) listens to him.  Pick something, anything... .all of it is someone else's fault including... .

The lack of conscious & complete self-centeredness

The lies & deceit The excuses The blaming The projecting The porn His terrible parents. His horrible boss. Not having whatever item he's wanting at that moment. Having to be an adult.

The confusion (stress/needs/troubles/normal life demands make him react/act out then it's weeks/months of aggravation followed by brief calm n here we go again)

The ENDLESS cycle of promises to me, the therapists, the pastors.

The $$$ & LIFE energy wasted on counseling over the years --Wasted holidays, vacations, weekends, nights. The HONEYMOON periods followed by the crushing blow of anger/reactivity/isolation tactics that even he can't explain. (Didn't talk to me once for three weeks-while we were in therapy!) The FREAKING LONELINESS... .Can't ask for affection-can't have any needs of my own. Sex is pretty much non-existent. If life is calm at the moment, and I ask, I get the ANGRY freak out.

I Don't have a partner, more like married to an angry, petty, reactive teen boy who believes the whole world is out to get him and it's all my fault (?)

If you can go... .go now... .then get yourself some therapy to heal so you'll be CLEAR before you even think of another relationship.

I have learned a lot about myself through it all. If I weren't as independent/strong I suspect the damage would have been huge. I'm gonna be ok however this finally shakes out. I've set boundaries-firm ones-and he's definitely responding-horribly negatively one day... .Decently the next round. I however am ready to begin the next phase of life. Got counseling set up-for ME to proceed cautiously and thoughtfully. I do love him dearly- in the good moments- but no one can live like this. Run like a rabbit. There's far too many others out there who aren't going to require every stinking single atom of energy you can scrape together... .and then some.

[XD8]

You guys are right. She didn't listen to anything I said all this time there's no chance that she'll do so now. Wishful thinking on my part.

Thinking back the only time she used to listen to me and was nice was during the start of her period. I could actually tell the days of the month she would be sweet to me. 

Has anyone else noticed that ? And the mornings were horrible just horrible... .total indifference... .