He filed. Now what?

[ptilda]

Got notified in the mail that uBPDh filed divorce on the 20th. I'm hurt, but I believe that he's trying to force himself to get deported so he can blame me (he's here on a spouse visa). There is absolutely NO way he can stay if he continues to refuse to get help. He will have to show a minimum of 6 weeks to 6 months of serious marriage therapy for them to allow him to stay after divorcing me.

Needless to say I don't agree to the divorce.

How do I address this? His cousin is going to try to talk to him, but I'm telling his friends and family that he can't be talked to like a "normal" person, and that if they go about it wrong it can trigger him. I'm asking them to read about BPD so they can help him get help... .Who knows?

Anyhow, here we go again... .If he wanted to be free of me he'd go back to Haiti. There is ZERO chance of him staying here if he goes through with this.

Also heard he lost his job.

Everyone is getting angry with him because he just refuses to listen to ANYONE'S advice!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Daniell85]

Sorry 

Sometimes I think BPD are like dieters. Oh I ate a cookie and ruined everything. So they eat all the cookies. Then everything really is messed up.

Does he have to have your agreement to get the divorce?

[babyducks]

ptilda,

do you have a lawyer?   have you visited the legal board?

'ducks

[ptilda]

Sorry 

Sometimes I think BPD are like dieters. Oh I ate a cookie and ruined everything. So they eat all the cookies. Then everything really is messed up.

Does he have to have your agreement to get the divorce?

I believe he does. I'm not sure though. But the point is that he's making it REALLY bad for himself. He has not one thing left in Haiti. He is burning bridges with all his friends and family (blaming me, of course), and no job. And I think that's his problem. He knows he has to rely on me right now and he'd rather be dead because then at least it's my fault and not his (in his mind). This is his version of "self-hurt."

ptilda,

do you have a lawyer?   have you visited the legal board?

'ducks

I got the notice of the case number last night. I didn't have time to do anything. I don't have a lawyer. I also have no money. This is a new thing that I really didn't think he'd do since it's so destructive to him! The ONLY reason is for him to make a point. He could easily go to Haiti and divorce me if he wanted. He just wants to hurt me.

[Daniell85]

It really sucks to be on the receiving end of these kinds of behaviors. I've been there myself so much and it has been terribly painful to have love turn into this ugly game. It's on him what he is doing.

What are you doing to help yourself cope? Any nice things for yourself? Eating and getting rest, friends and family to help support you?

[ptilda]

It really sucks to be on the receiving end of these kinds of behaviors. I've been there myself so much and it has been terribly painful to have love turn into this ugly game. It's on him what he is doing.

What are you doing to help yourself cope? Any nice things for yourself? Eating and getting rest, friends and family to help support you?

Coping? I'm working like crazy trying to keep my head above water. I have no time to think about that. Besides, when I'm not working I depress even myself, I don't want to subject anyone else to that.

It's funny the advice I get from people who say I should dress up and go out... .really? So some creep can try to get in my panties? No, I'll pass. As if all I need to do is have sex and it will all be better.

*sigh*

I guess I'm going through whichever stage of grief this is... .feels like mourning.

[formflier]

 

Ptilda,

Please go start a thread on legal. You are also welcome... .and encouraged to stay over here and talk about r/s issues... .and how best to communicate with him.

I'll look for you over on legal... but the quick advice is to google for "pre paid legal."  there are usually plans where you can pay a small monthly fee and get a good deal of phone support.

They also can refer you to local attorneys that can go to court and have pre negotiated rates. 

Just a thought... .


Boundaries:

Please try to think more about what your needs are... and less about the consequences he is putting on himself.

Also... .think long and hard about telling others about BPD and asking them to intervene.  He is listening to nobody... (as you said)... so might be best if people stop talking to him for a bit... so he can calm down.

Take care of yourself.  Do you walk?  Exercise?

FF

[ptilda]

Ptilda,

Please go start a thread on legal. You are also welcome... .and encouraged to stay over here and talk about r/s issues... .and how best to communicate with him.

I'll look for you over on legal... but the quick advice is to google for "pre paid legal."  there are usually plans where you can pay a small monthly fee and get a good deal of phone support.

They also can refer you to local attorneys that can go to court and have pre negotiated rates. 

Just a thought... .


Boundaries:

Please try to think more about what your needs are... and less about the consequences he is putting on himself.

Also... .think long and hard about telling others about BPD and asking them to intervene.  He is listening to nobody... (as you said)... so might be best if people stop talking to him for a bit... so he can calm down.

Take care of yourself.  Do you walk?  Exercise?

FF

I honestly don't have a "small monthly amount" to put towards any kind of legal. I also hesitate to ask for legal advice on a forum of non-lawyers. No offense.

Also, my reason for talking to select people about BPD is precisely to get them to stop trying to fix it. Everyone is jumping in and giving him advice which is making matters worse. Until they can understand that he doesn't think like normal people, they're going to keep trying to reason with him.

[formflier]

  I also hesitate to ask for legal advice on a forum of non-lawyers. No offense.

Hmmm... .yeah... there is some "legal advice" on their... but is is mostly relational.  High conflict and or pwBPD that are divorcing... .tend to follow the same playbook.  Many lawyers don't understand this... .nor do many "nons".

Very important that you have people you can vent to... .that can help you through this process.

No intention for the forum to be a substitute for a lawyer.

I think I pay $18 per month for a service like this.

FF

[babyducks]

Please try to think more about what your needs are... and less about the consequences he is putting on himself.

I like Formflier's point here and hope it didn't get lost in the shuffle.   

You have a lot going on right now.  We understand it's difficult.  It sounds like you are under a lot of stress. To some degree we have all been there. 

When things get this tough it's time to take care of ourselves first.  We are no good to anyone else if we are exhausted, stressed, hungry, angry and tired.   

Is there anything you can do today to give yourself some respite?

[ptilda]

  I also hesitate to ask for legal advice on a forum of non-lawyers. No offense.

Hmmm... .yeah... there is some "legal advice" on their... but is is mostly relational.  High conflict and or pwBPD that are divorcing... .tend to follow the same playbook.  Many lawyers don't understand this... .nor do many "nons".

Very important that you have people you can vent to... .that can help you through this process.

No intention for the forum to be a substitute for a lawyer.

I think I pay $18 per month for a service like this.

FF

I'll check it out. I have so little time right now, that's the problem.

Please try to think more about what your needs are... and less about the consequences he is putting on himself.

I like Formflier's point here and hope it didn't get lost in the shuffle.   

You have a lot going on right now.  We understand it's difficult.  It sounds like you are under a lot of stress. To some degree we have all been there. 

When things get this tough it's time to take care of ourselves first.  We are no good to anyone else if we are exhausted, stressed, hungry, angry and tired.   

Is there anything you can do today to give yourself some respite?

See above... .

[formflier]

 

What can you do to "make" time?  What is "taking up" your time?

FF

[ptilda]

What can you do to "make" time?  What is "taking up" your time?

FF

Work.

I'm self-employed music teacher. July is the month where students take off for vacation and such, and so I'm scrambling trying to fill in. I am spending my time marketing and advertising and networking and such... .There's not really a place to fit time. I do have some time periodically in which I read a chapter in a book about BPD (usually before bed or between lessons). But I'm also a grad student and my capstone project is something hubs was supposed to help with (he insisted) and now I'm scrambling trying to figure out how to complete it without him... .

[formflier]

But I'm also a grad student and my capstone project is something hubs was supposed to help with (he insisted) and now I'm scrambling trying to figure out how to complete it without him... .

Ahh... ."counting" on a pwBPD has bitten me in the a$$ many times.  Including this morning... .frustrating.

Hang in there... .the divorce paperwork will play itself out.  If you are going to not be involved in the divorce process for a while... .my suggestion would be to limit your questions to a lawyer to educate yourself on process... .and how it will play out... .if you ignore it.

Pay attention to places (if there are any) where you could end up at a legal or financial disadvantage by ignoring it.

FF

[ptilda]

But I'm also a grad student and my capstone project is something hubs was supposed to help with (he insisted) and now I'm scrambling trying to figure out how to complete it without him... .

Ahh... ."counting" on a pwBPD has bitten me in the a$$ many times.  Including this morning... .frustrating.

Hang in there... .the divorce paperwork will play itself out.  If you are going to not be involved in the divorce process for a while... .my suggestion would be to limit your questions to a lawyer to educate yourself on process... .and how it will play out... .if you ignore it.

Pay attention to places (if there are any) where you could end up at a legal or financial disadvantage by ignoring it.

FF

Problem is I "counted" on him before I knew about the BPD. Live and learn I guess!

Got served today. He's asking for nothing. Just the divorce. My niece's husband (also Haitian) spoke with him a week ago (around the same time he filed) and my husband told him he wants to come back but doesn't know how. That's pretty much what I've been hearing. This is where it is SO tempting to try to "rescue" him. But I know that it will just reinforce things. So I'm remaining silent... .the hardest thing ever.

Debating about asking in court for the judge to order a period of counseling? Or asking before court? I don't know... .still researching and praying and waiting.

[MaroonLiquid]

Got served today. He's asking for nothing. Just the divorce. My niece's husband (also Haitian) spoke with him a week ago (around the same time he filed) and my husband told him he wants to come back but doesn't know how. That's pretty much what I've been hearing. This is where it is SO tempting to try to "rescue" him. But I know that it will just reinforce things. So I'm remaining silent... .the hardest thing ever.

Debating about asking in court for the judge to order a period of counseling? Or asking before court? I don't know... .still researching and praying and waiting.

I got sent divorce papers in the mail several months ago.  Actually it ended up being the best thing for our relationship.  I believe my wife has done everything she could for about 10 months to push me away so she could remain the "victim" and not have to deal with herself.  I have remained calm and steady in the boat and non-reactive to anything she throws my way now.  Staying silent is the best thing you can do.  My wife expected me to go bananas because she knew I didn't want a divorce.  I didn't even let her know I received them.  She brought them up because it was driving her nuts.  I think it drove her even more crazy that I acted like it was no big deal.  I believe she was looking for a continued fight and didn't give her that.  Since being sent the papers, we have actually gotten closer and it seems like she is trusting me more as a solid person in her life.

[ptilda]

Got served today. He's asking for nothing. Just the divorce. My niece's husband (also Haitian) spoke with him a week ago (around the same time he filed) and my husband told him he wants to come back but doesn't know how. That's pretty much what I've been hearing. This is where it is SO tempting to try to "rescue" him. But I know that it will just reinforce things. So I'm remaining silent... .the hardest thing ever.

Debating about asking in court for the judge to order a period of counseling? Or asking before court? I don't know... .still researching and praying and waiting.

I got sent divorce papers in the mail several months ago.  Actually it ended up being the best thing for our relationship.  I believe my wife has done everything she could for about 10 months to push me away so she could remain the "victim" and not have to deal with herself.  I have remained calm and steady in the boat and non-reactive to anything she throws my way now.  Staying silent is the best thing you can do.  My wife expected me to go bananas because she knew I didn't want a divorce.  I didn't even let her know I received them.  She brought them up because it was driving her nuts.  I think it drove her even more crazy that I acted like it was no big deal.  I believe she was looking for a continued fight and didn't give her that.  Since being sent the papers, we have actually gotten closer and it seems like she is trusting me more as a solid person in her life.

Finally! Practical advice! I get better advice here than I get from "experts," because people here are going through it. I called the mental health intervention hotline and they are useless! They are the ones that let him know I had called them! State workers... .(no offense to any GOOD state employees who might read this... .I know good ones are out there).

So did you give the required response in 30 days to the lawyer? At least that's what it says I have to give... .

[MaroonLiquid]

So did you give the required response in 30 days to the lawyer? At least that's what it says I have to give... .

yes, I did.  I sent in the "Waiver of Service" form.  I waited till the last moment to do it though.  I refuse to make anything easy.      right after I typed my response earlier, my wife must have gotten a call from her lawyer.  Weird... .

[formflier]

 

Ptilda,

Maroon is the man!  He is living... .what it appears you are starting to experience.

Please... .find the money... .find the time... .and talk to a lawyer about what happens if you send in the response... .or if you ignore it.  Focus on anything bad that can happen if you ignore it.

Maroon,

Might want to give some insight on why you eventually sent it in?  Vice doing nothing.

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

Maroon,

Might want to give some insight on why you eventually sent it in?  Vice doing nothing.

FF

I sent it in to show that I received the paperwork as that is the right thing to do and to not go through the "service" procedure.  You would think you are a second class citizen or breaking the law they way the stalk you and crap.  Anyway, I didn't want to show outright defiance to the whole process and show that I'm not scared of it either.

[ptilda]

Posted in the legal thread about this and while some responses were helpful, another was basically the, "you get what you deserve" underlying accusation that I'm an idiot for wanting to work it out. If he was physically ill, I would be lauded for staying by his side (and even expected to do so). Since he's mentally ill I'm criticized for doing the same? I don't get it.

MaroonLiquid, did you get legal help?

What happens if I simply make an S.E.T. statement about this addressing the divorce and letting him know that I understand that he feels it's necessary to take drastic steps, and that it is in his hands to decide how he will go forward with this . . . i.e. if he chooses to pursue the divorce I will do nothing to stop it, but if he desires to repair this relationship I am available to go through counseling with him? Gives him choices then and lets him see my intentions as well as my desire to fix things.

I'm reading about this tendency to put the non into a lose-lose situation... .I feel that's what's happening. If I don't respond, then I don't care, and it's proof that I'm a horrible person. If I refuse to give the divorce, I'm trying to control him. This way I show that I care, but I'm leaving the choice to him.

[formflier]

 

My opinion... .

If you open to a divorce... .or want a divorce... .say so.  If not... .be clear that you do not want that.  (It is important how you say that... .SET is good)

Most likely in your state... .he can get a divorce without you helping.

YOU need to think about how you are going to feel about this... .if you stay together or if you divorce.  Very important that on the big questions in life that you live your values... .don't appease... .make it easier for... .or any of those things... .the pwBPD in your life.

Last for now:  Don't try to overthink the double binds.  They will think... .what they will think.  Ignore the double bind.  Live your values... .

Again... .taking an action so they will "think" or "feel" a certain way... .is handing them the power

I am very interested that you keep the power... .over your stuff... .your decisions... .your life. 

Let him decide about his life... .

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

MaroonLiquid, did you get legal help?

I did seek counsel yes.  It was more informational in case I need to retain someone.  I didn't retain anyone because I feel pretty strongly that is not what she wants.  it is more about retaining control in the r/s as she felt I was getting stronger and asserting more control (not unhealthy but more husbandly and more about my boundaries).  I think she thought filing would break me and swing me the other way and grovel.  It didn't.  In fact, I called her bluff, dug my heels in and let her own it.  Her latest episode yesterday doesn't change my thoughts.  In fact, it only continues to prove my theory that this is a mindgame and something she defaults to to make herself feel better.  By not reacting to it, she comes down quicker whereas if I did, we would be embroiled in her crap.  I refuse now.  If she hadn't threatened divorce a bunch during our marriage, I would probably be a little more cautious regarding her intentions.

[ptilda]

I spoke with my therapist friend and ended up sending this to him:

"I understand that it looks like divorce is the only option available, and I can understand that you're making the best choice you can see. I feel very sad about how our relationship has ended up, and want to see some things change, but I love you so much and don't want to see you make a decision that will cause you even more hurt.

I believe that divorce is the wrong thing for us and that our love is strong enough to get through this. If you are willing to give some time for us to get some counseling so we can work together to repair our marriage and move forward from the mistakes we made, I would like to take slow steps towards that with you. However, if you feel you must go forward with the divorce, I will be heartbroken, but I will not fight you on it."

Using the S.E.T. guidelines, I think it shows him that I'm willing to sludge through it with him, but also puts it in his hands and lets him know ultimately it's his decision, so that he can't use the lose-lose scenario against me (if I do nothing I don't care, but if I stop him I am trying to control him).

In the past 24 hours he's seemed to be desperately reaching out to people. He's calling pretty distant people who he doesn't even really know, and is talking about how depressed and down he is. I think he's crashing. Lots of shame and fear seems to be the theme. He's told a half dozen people at least (those who reported back to me) that he loves me and doesn't want it to end, but he can't see a way to make it work.

I'm hoping the message will give him a foothold so he can at least get his perspective in order.

Spoke with his lawyer last night and she was really nice. I mentioned the immigration matters to her as an FYI so she knows what he's risking. I also offered to cooperate if divorce is truly the only option, to help him avoid jail and deportation. I also asked her to keep into confidence my conviction of mental health issues and this being a form of "self-harm." She seemed to understand where I'm coming from and willingly offered me several resources to help me. That's a good sign. If she can nudge him towards the idea of counseling (to prove that he's done what is needed to resolve the problems), then that's a huge step.

Also spoke with the judge's office and they said I can request counseling, although it may or may not be granted.