Anyone figure how to move things forward

[strong9]

I've posted on the board a few times but never in the divorce section. I'm in need of advice on how to move things forward. My STBXW is dragging our divorce out. We've been separated for over two years and I filed for divorce a year ago and NOTHING has happened except our lawyers' padding their wallets. I have had de facto custody of my kids for 2 years now and their mom has been in and out of the country and had them for overnight stays about a dozen times in 2 years during the times she has been here.  In short, the facts are strong for me. Her lawyers have done everything to make me look like a dishonest man who is hiding money and never cared for his kids because I had a demanding job before I scaled back to care for my kids after she went AWOL emotionally and then physically. But nothing has gone to an actual hearing in court for even a temporary order and I've refuted everything in writing with court filings of my own filled with substantiated facts. Meanwhile she has gone from telling family she wanted the divorce (but I just tricked her by filing first) to now saying it was all my idea.

In other words, she is all over the place and has been out of the country (this time around) for 4 months, has found a job in the other country and has a new apartment there. She hasn't told our children and has made excuses for why she can't come for a hearing on requests for order that she herself initiated. Her lawyers are posturing to create extensions. And even though in court papers she only seeks visitation, she won't sign any orders which grant me custody formally so that we can focus on visitation.

There is a legal side to this but practically, has anyone ever seem anything like this? I'm beginning to think she doesn't want the divorce finalized, not because she wants to be together (which I've made clear is a no go), but for some other reason. She basically has put us in limbo while she loves out her life as she sees fit. How do I move this forward and finalize it?

[scraps66]

I think we've all dealt with a BP dragging things out somehow or another.  It is a level of control.  To her, if she doesn't engage you can't move on emotionally all the while she is doing whatever she pleases.  Maybe this is passive aggression.  The situation described does seem a bit extreme.

Your lawyer should be able to tell you how to bring things to closure if he himself isn't dragging his feet. 

IN my case I filed and my lawyer took the wait and see approach.  After a year of this my ex had me booted from the house.  In my experience waiting and reacting rather than being proactive is not a good approach. 

Has custody been formally set with an Order?  That would be a first step I guess.  Make sure she keeps an attorney and that you try to close while she has an attorney.  My ex went pro se for awhile which ultimately meant that there was no way of communicating with her.  She ignored anything that was sent and kept me from closing even longer.

[livednlearned]

I'm sorry to hear you're dealing with this, strong9. It does sound like you are in a strong position, legally speaking.

Have you told your L to not agree to any continuances or non-compliance? It seems like many things in family court have rules for this kind of thing (so stuff can't drag on forever), but then lawyers file things so that they can drag on forever.

You may need to have a frank conversation with your L and say explicitly that you do not agree to any continuances, and that if your wife loses by default, then that's how you want things to go (if that's possible).

If you're very motivated to do so, it's possible there is case law in Google Scholar that you can look at for your state (click case law). This may explain how custody is handled when one parent moves out of the country or refuses to participate in legal proceedings. First, though, you have to make sure your L isn't working at cross-purposes with your goals.

[strong9]

Thanks, both. My lawyer has taken a wait and see approach up until now and I've been okay with it because it extends out the good facts in my favor. But it's been a year and I'm ready to move forward so I will be having that discussion with him this week.

I was hoping I could appeal to her but I realize that's foolish given everything I already know and have learned about her through this site and my own experiences. And yes, she is passive aggressive to the extreme.

[maxen]

hi strong9. in my state (NYS) there's an action called a Request for Judicial Intervention, RJI. this is an action by which one party tries to force the matter before a judge at a sticking point. my L threatened it when the other side wouldn't sign and return the uncontested divorce papers because they wanted me to fulfill all financial obligations in the stip first, a gambit that wasn't provided for in the stip. (it worked - they signed and returned.) if i understand it correctly, you would have to pick one issue on which the other side is legally legless, and threaten to force that issue.

But nothing has gone to an actual hearing in court for even a temporary order and I've refuted everything in writing with court filings of my own filled with substantiated facts.

so perhaps, you've fulfilled all the qualifications for the temporary order to be filed, and they're just dragging their feet for no good reason.

i'm not sure this is available in every state though, so you'd need to investigate it where you are.

[strong9]

hi strong9. in my state (NYS) there's an action called a Request for Judicial Intervention, RJI. this is an action by which one party tries to force the matter before a judge at a sticking point. my L threatened it when the other side wouldn't sign and return the uncontested divorce papers because they wanted me to fulfill all financial obligations in the stip first, a gambit that wasn't provided for in the stip. (it worked - they signed and returned.) if i understand it correctly, you would have to pick one issue on which the other side is legally legless, and threaten to force that issue.

But nothing has gone to an actual hearing in court for even a temporary order and I've refuted everything in writing with court filings of my own filled with substantiated facts.

so perhaps, you've fulfilled all the qualifications for the temporary order to be filed, and they're just dragging their feet for no good reason.

i'm not sure this is available in every state though, so you'd need to investigate it where you are.

Thanks. I will look in to this.

[ForeverDad]

My ex was hyper vigilant, seeing literally everybody as "probably" abusers, her word, she refused to consider "possibly" or "potentially".  She as Mother managed to get 2 temp orders (first for separation, second for divorce case) in her favor and so her entitlement was enabled by the court.  Naturally, she dragged it out as long as she could.  It took over 28 months to do mutual protection orders, temp order, divorce filing, temp order #2, mediation, court's parenting investigation, custody evaluation, Trial Day which morphed into Settlement Day and finally Final Decree.

Since that is not the case with you and your stbEx, you have de facto custody and parenting (as the parent in possession) which she really isn't opposing, then I would agree it is passive aggressive or 'negative engagement' to to stay minimally engaged but with a sense of control.

Separated for 2 years and filed for divorce a year ago, all the professionals would agree it is time to move forward with the divorce process.  Yes, her lawyer will continue delaying, no doubt doing the client's bidding.  Her lawyer is working for her, not fro you and not for the kids either.

Court will not look poorly on you wanting to proceed after the delays.  Has she been delays by seeking continuances, perhaps claiming she was out of country and keep getting new hearing dates?  Time for your lawyer to stop giving 'professional courtesy' with her lawyer and instead start opposing any new requests for continuances or other delay attempts.  Court may have allowed some continuances but if you're opposed to more, the court will eventually get peeved with her and her lawyer and begin denying some of the more baseless requests.

In other words, she is all over the place and has been out of the country (this time around) for 4 months, has found a job in the other country and has a new apartment there. She hasn't told our children and has made excuses for why she can't come for a hearing on requests for order that she herself initiated. Her lawyers are posturing to create extensions. And even though in court papers she only seeks visitation, she won't sign any orders which grant me custody formally so that we can focus on visitation.

You will have to be assertive and proactive in both your parenting and the court process.  As I wrote above, court may have allowed some continuances but if you're opposed to more, the court will eventually get peeved with her and her lawyer and begin denying some of the more baseless requests.  You've more or less established your parenting track record, it's up to you and your lawyer to direct the case henceforth.

For example, she's likely made claims she can't come for the hearing dates.  Well, she can't keep doing that with impunity.  She has legal representation, they can appear for her.  If she won't sign and won't come in to sign, then the court has to be informed a settlement is impossible, all the "mutually agreed" attempts didn't work and court decisions are required.

[strong9]

My ex was hyper vigilant, seeing literally everybody as "probably" abusers, her word, she refused to consider "possibly" or "potentially".  She as Mother managed to get 2 temp orders (first for separation, second for divorce case) in her favor and so her entitlement was enabled by the court.  Naturally, she dragged it out as long as she could.  It took over 28 months to do mutual protection orders, temp order, divorce filing, temp order #2, mediation, court's parenting investigation, custody evaluation, Trial Day which morphed into Settlement Day and finally Final Decree.

Since that is not the case with you and your stbEx, you have de facto custody and parenting (as the parent in possession) which she really isn't opposing, then I would agree it is passive aggressive or 'negative engagement' to to stay minimally engaged but with a sense of control.

Separated for 2 years and filed for divorce a year ago, all the professionals would agree it is time to move forward with the divorce process.  Yes, her lawyer will continue delaying, no doubt doing the client's bidding.  Her lawyer is working for her, not fro you and not for the kids either.

Court will not look poorly on you wanting to proceed after the delays.  Has she been delays by seeking continuances, perhaps claiming she was out of country and keep getting new hearing dates?  Time for your lawyer to stop giving 'professional courtesy' with her lawyer and instead start opposing any new requests for continuances or other delay attempts.  Court may have allowed some continuances but if you're opposed to more, the court will eventually get peeved with her and her lawyer and begin denying some of the more baseless requests.

In other words, she is all over the place and has been out of the country (this time around) for 4 months, has found a job in the other country and has a new apartment there. She hasn't told our children and has made excuses for why she can't come for a hearing on requests for order that she herself initiated. Her lawyers are posturing to create extensions. And even though in court papers she only seeks visitation, she won't sign any orders which grant me custody formally so that we can focus on visitation.

You will have to be assertive and proactive in both your parenting and the court process.  As I wrote above, court may have allowed some continuances but if you're opposed to more, the court will eventually get peeved with her and her lawyer and begin denying some of the more baseless requests.  You've more or less established your parenting track record, it's up to you and your lawyer to direct the case henceforth.

For example, she's likely made claims she can't come for the hearing dates.  Well, she can't keep doing that with impunity.  She has legal representation, they can appear for her.  If she won't sign and won't come in to sign, then the court has to be informed a settlement is impossible, all the "mutually agreed" attempts didn't work and court decisions are required.

That all makes sense. Thanks for the advice.

She is bankrolled by daddy but because she was a stay at home mom and didn't work except the first of our 14 years of marriage, she claims poverty.  Unfortunately,  because her family lives abroad, there is no way to prove this (not for purposes of support but at least for purposes of showing she is well and able to come, but chooses not to). Instead I have to rely on the fact that even when I was voluntarily supporting her (along with her dad), she still came and went for months at a time so the claim she is now too poor to come rings hollow. Her dad has kept her in luxury for the past 24 months even if you discount what I volunteer rarity gave her.

My lawyer's advice is to keep the status quo from a legal perspective for some more months because I've had de facto custody for 2 years now and she has stuck around to be in their lives for less than half that time. I get the legal side, but I want to move on and be done with it and her roller coaster behavior. I know I can't be done with her in my life completely as we share 3 kids, but I want closure in as many ways as possible. I will have a sit down with my lawyer.

[maxen]

She is bankrolled by daddy but because she was a stay at home mom and didn't work except the first of our 14 years of marriage, she claims poverty.  Unfortunately,  because her family lives abroad, there is no way to prove this (not for purposes of support but at least for purposes of showing she is well and able to come, but chooses not to). Instead I have to rely on the fact that even when I was voluntarily supporting her (along with her dad), she still came and went for months at a time so the claim she is now too poor to come rings hollow. Her dad has kept her in luxury for the past 24 months even if you discount what I volunteer rarity gave her.

can you demand discovery? would that be taking things to a level you or your L don;t want to go?

[strong9]

She is bankrolled by daddy but because she was a stay at home mom and didn't work except the first of our 14 years of marriage, she claims poverty.  Unfortunately,  because her family lives abroad, there is no way to prove this (not for purposes of support but at least for purposes of showing she is well and able to come, but chooses not to). Instead I have to rely on the fact that even when I was voluntarily supporting her (along with her dad), she still came and went for months at a time so the claim she is now too poor to come rings hollow. Her dad has kept her in luxury for the past 24 months even if you discount what I volunteer rarity gave her.

can you demand discovery? would that be taking things to a level you or your L don;t want to go?

I have. They gave meager information. We can plead to the court's common sense that there are huge gaps in info compared to lifestyle but we can't subpoena overseas banks/employers so we are at the mercy of her integrity and that of her lawyers', and everyone on this board knows how far that gets you.

[livednlearned]

Your goal is to get divorced and get custody. It sounds like discovery won't help you with those goals, or will it? There are things we want to know because we want to know, and/or it's about something that just grinds us up inside (my ex's salary was higher than what he reported, for example), and these things may or may not have any bearing on the outcomes that we most care about, like custody. Do you want information about her support because it will level the playing field (your character, her character)? Or is it about alimony?

She is dragging things out because she probably feels controlled, so she resists, even if she is resisting what will ultimately be what she wants. BPD are the most difficult people, not only for us, but for them, too. Alternately, she is resisting because she has poor impulse control and is avoiding something that requires long term thinking. Another alternate is that she is dealing with a lot of shame, so she's avoiding grown up responsibilities.

At this point, the important point is to figure out a strategy that will help you reach your goals. It seems like by the time we're neck deep in legal fees, the only way to reach goals is to figure out leverage and stick to boundaries and develop effective ways to communicate (like BIFF statements).

[strong9]

Thanks livednlearned. I would like discovery for financial support purposes and to attack her credibility.  The latter is important to me because she wants the court to rule that the kids can visit her in her new home outside the country. That country is not a party to the Hague Convention. I do not trust a woman who constantly said all she wanted was the kids (before she discarded them) and that she doesn't believe the US is the right place to raise kids. So even though she is not legally pushing for custody, I do not trust her to act like a grown up and do what's best for the kids instead of what she wants to do for her own reasons, whatever they may be. Showing her lack of integrity and the truth to the court would help with that.

[livednlearned]

Thanks livednlearned. I would like discovery for financial support purposes and to attack her credibility.  The latter is important to me because she wants the court to rule that the kids can visit her in her new home outside the country. That country is not a party to the Hague Convention. I do not trust a woman who constantly said all she wanted was the kids (before she discarded them) and that she doesn't believe the US is the right place to raise kids. So even though she is not legally pushing for custody, I do not trust her to act like a grown up and do what's best for the kids instead of what she wants to do for her own reasons, whatever they may be. Showing her lack of integrity and the truth to the court would help with that.

It might help with that.

I don't know. So much comes down to what the judge is like.

My judge liked proposed solutions. I had a similar situation with dual nationalities, my family lives in another country and are the only relatives S14 knows. So I proposed that I would post bond if/when I needed to travel out of the country with S14. That spared all of us having to roll in the mud in family court. We did a quick run-through to show that I was not a flight risk, pointed out the problems with the current set up (having to ask N/BPDx permission, which he routinely said no), and then we went into the details of the solution -- a fair and reasonable solution that was hard to fault. Even N/BPDx's lawyer thought it was a good solution. N/BPDx resisted it for the sake of resisting it, and that's when the judge saw that N/BPDx had something else going on.

Your solution might be different -- you might say that mom can meet the kids in any country that is part of the Hague Treaty, and if bond is an option, then propose that. Or, alternately, the kids can only visit her in the US because of the problems with child abduction in foreign countries not part of the Hague Treaty.

I was surprised that educating the judge about international law/child custody issues fell to me, but judges in my county rotate on/off the bench every four years. My judge had only been in family court for a year or so when the issue of international travel came up.

It's good to ask your L if he knows what the judge is like. Mine was a southern gentlemen old-school type who took great offense that N/BPDx called me a whore, and every other name under the sun. He spent a good 10 min lecturing N/BPDx about conducting himself like a gentlemen, and to stay off email when he felt angry if he couldn't watch his language, that he wouldn't tolerate having emails like that read in his courtroom, etc.

So of course my L brought in all of those emails... .

[strong9]

Thanks again. Love the gentlemanly judge. That's awesome!