his conditions for ending NC

[Parents! Get help here!]

after six months of NC, my DH invited my BPDs28 and his darling wife to joins us at a restaurant for dinner to celebrate their first anniversary.  BPDS sent us a list of conditions for going to dinner, including a signed statement that none of us will interfere with any of his relationships with other family members and that we agree to "penalties" for any violence we might commit against a child (there is no child, he and his wife have no children, and ours are basically grown).  my first response to myself was "this is too hard.  forget it"  but instead I told my DH to respond, "sure no problem." just wondering what you all think.  any guidance? advice? ideas?

[six]

after six months of NC, my DH invited my BPDs28 and his darling wife to joins us at a restaurant for dinner to celebrate their first anniversary.  BPDS sent us a list of conditions for going to dinner, including a signed statement that none of us will interfere with any of his relationships with other family members and that we agree to "penalties" for any violence we might commit against a child (there is no child, he and his wife have no children, and ours are basically grown).  my first response to myself was "this is too hard.  forget it"  but instead I told my DH to respond, "sure no problem." just wondering what you all think.  any guidance? advice? ideas?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[tristesse]

HI Six,

Sure, no problem was a safe response, and I would have likely done the same thing.

I am wondering though, why would he say you have to agree to any penalties for any violence you commit against a child? That is a really odd request for somebody to make that has no children. Have you considered asking him what child or children he is referring to? I had my BPD daughter go NC once for 8 months, and it was extremely difficult, when we did finally reconnect, she was very distant and aloof when it came to me, so be prepared for whatever may come of this dinner.

Perhaps your son was hoping for a reaction, looking for a reason to say NO to the anniversary dinner, a way to pass the blame on to you. Maybe he thought if you would argue his conditions and that would be the only thing he needed to refuse the invitation. It's very difficult to predict what occurs in the minds of our BPD children. All I can say is, he is coming to dinner, don't expect too much, accept that he is not well and be prepared. Arm yourself with skills and tools to communicate correctly and hopefully you will have great time and a nice dinner.

Hang in there .

[AVR1962]

It appears to me that our son has built up a story to his wife and she is his support system, you are to blame, and his mind he has to protect his "children" from you when actually what he is saying is he is protecting "himself" from you. Agreeing to penalties? This sounds to me like your BPD son is trying to take charge and find ways to punish you for the way he feels he was treated. He cannot speak for himself (except to others who will listen like his wife) so he will speak for the "children" he has to protect which is him. Agreeing is agreeing to his world, his concepts. Was this put in writing or verbal? Be careful what you divulge, if anything. I think it would be wise for you to expect tension at the table as he has to make it known in some way to his wife that he has reason for his hurts and with you there to be a part of it so she can witness it is ideal. You can validate hurts by saying you feel for what he is dealing with but do not lay yourself out and let yourself be slain.

[six]

thanks for the responses, AVR1962 and tristesse.  I agree that the child he is referring to is himself.  over the years he has accused us of violence against some of his siblings, but usually this was because we said no to some request and one of them decided to throw a tantrum.  none of our other children consider themselves to have suffered violence from us.  only him. 

I agreed to the conditions mostly because I want to be supportive of his wife who seems like a really nice person and wants to be connected to our family.  she has gone out with me a few times alone.  I thought it would be nice to try to include him to have a semblance of normalcy, even though he has been NC with me for six months.  I guess my magical thinking keeps imagining that somehow something normal might happen.

I am expecting insanity tonight, what else is new.  I will smile a lot, say very little and pay for dinner. 

[six]

So, the dinner with my BPDs28 never happened.  My BPDs28 sent a long list of conditions for meeting, which included our signing a document that  that we had abused him in the past and would not do so in the future.  we agreed to sign that we would not abuse him in the future but refused to agree in writing that we had abused him in the past.  my DH tried valiantly and kindly to "negotiate" with him, but to no avail.  I think he did not really want to get together, otherwise he would have made it happen. we ended up going out with our younger children and we had a great time.

I feel strangely peaceful and accepting about this.  I am done with trying to fix him or change reality.  it is what it is.  he is unable to move out of his rage. I feel sorry for him, but also feel happy for myself for finally getting free from being under his control.

[purpleavocado]

I'm so sorry to hear this, Six. I'm glad to hear that you're coping well. It's true that there is a sense of relief when we let them go. Signing a document? Admitting guilt to something that never happened? If you had done that, who knows what you would have been walking into with him. I'm so sorry this happened.

[AVR1962]

So, the dinner with my BPDs28 never happened.  My BPDs28 sent a long list of conditions for meeting, which included our signing a document that  that we had abused him in the past and would not do so in the future.  we agreed to sign that we would not abuse him in the future but refused to agree in writing that we had abused him in the past.  my DH tried valiantly and kindly to "negotiate" with him, but to no avail.  I think he did not really want to get together, otherwise he would have made it happen. we ended up going out with our younger children and we had a great time.

I feel strangely peaceful and accepting about this.  I am done with trying to fix him or change reality.  it is what it is.  he is unable to move out of his rage. I feel sorry for him, but also feel happy for myself for finally getting free from being under his control.

Six, it is good that you have fund peace with his decision. You are correct, if he was ready to accept and let go he would have met with you. He made this choice and now it is time for him to find what it is that he wants for himself and figure out his own life. We hurt when these things happen but we also have to live our lives too.

I know for myself I felt like the relationship with my BPD had become more obligation than a real heart-felt relationship. It was more of a matter of me keeping in touch with her and listening but I wasn't really feeling we were relating. Her last no contact she involved her husband and 2 daughters and I finally was able to take that deep sigh much like you have mentioned here. I too am done with the control, done with the accusations, done with her stories and her obviously being on-guard. Tired of her jealousy towards her sisters that we actually have a relationship.

In some sense our children did us a big favor. I hope you can move on with your own life with less hurt and hardship you have endured until now.

[six]

thanks for the responses AVR and purple.  it is always good to have a reality check here on the boards.

it is really hard, but i feel sort of numb to the pain, if you know what i mean.  i feel like i have done what was possible, even while i made a lot of mistakes, and now I am ready to let it be.  i read some of the posts from parents of teenagers and i am so grateful to be past that stage.  i am grateful that he has a home and he does not need to live with me. 

[thefixermom]

My daughter was always looking to create "proof" to others that she had been abused because she had difficulty convincing people who know us. I could see where signing such a document could have given your son a piece of paper to flash in front of people, saying, "See? Here's the proof!"  Even a signed document that you promise not to abuse in the future alludes to there having been abuse in the past.

[AVR1962]

TheFixerMom and Six, my daughter was the same. She had to prove to others that I had abused her. One time I flew to visit my daughter and stepson. Stepson had his gf with him and my daughter had her husband with her. We were in a restaurant and out of the blue my daughter starts with this meltdown about how I abused her. I was totally dumb founded. I had no idea what she was talking about, had no idea where it was coming from. I told her that I would be willing to talk to her later about it one on one but then and there was not the time and place but she insisted with all these witnesses that this had to be brought up then. Everyone at the table when silent while she went into this tirade of how horrible I was. I asked stepson who lived with us if this was his experience as well, he was silent. His gf was studying psychology and I asked her if she understood what my daughter was talking about. She said she thought maybe my daughter was referring to strict discipline but would not call it abuse. She could not mediate the situation and she fell silent too. Two hours of being berated while my daughter is making a scene, in tears, making claims. It was terrible. I don't even recall how I ended it all. I do recall telling her that i never meant to hurt her. I paid the bill for us all and I don't think we saw each before I left town. Always an audience for her to prove to the world how awful I have been. It gets old. I finally had to see our relationship as her not wanting to have a relationship with me for wanting to repair anything. She wants me as hr target and I refuse to keep taking it. I love her but we cannot have a relationship as long as she has these hard feelings. To keep pursuing a relationship with my daughter and for me to continue to forgive when we are making no real progress just keeps me in the line for further blame and I am simply done with that. She is entitled to her reality but until she can forgive me for what she feels I did then we cannot move forward.

[thefixermom]

AVR1962, such a horrible event to endure.  It seems so vampiric, like they just want to suck the lifeblood out of us.  Yes, there comes a point... .for me it took many years... .where it did become truly old and instead of acting detached, I became detached. What you said about forgiveness struck a chord with me.  My daughter lives in a world where I am unforgivable and as such, there is no hope for progress. And I was either the target, as you aptly put it, or a source to fill some need, be it emotional support or material. The biggest tragedy in this for me is that she will never be happy or free in her life until she does make a decision to let it all go.  She hangs on to her judgments of me with a fear that if she lets it go then she would lose her soul. Hard to get through to her with a grip on her soul like that. This means she will carry it into all her relationships and it will have a role in who she chooses to be with and how their lives are lived. I am at peace with myself so I'm not too worried about me other than the sadness I have for my DD and all that we have and will miss out on. I have filled those holes with other loving relationships. It was amazing to me how they showed up in my life once I truly let my DD go. I still love her very much.  I'm just free now, to live a beautiful life.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Kate4queen]

My BPD son appeared with a list of complaints and accusations against us after walking out of our home. Apparently we had never let him speak the truth (ha) and he wanted to spell it all out to us, justify his decision to walk out and have us admit our guilt.

We tried to persuade him that the list was unnecessary because we were quite clear about what he thought we had done to him, but he kept going back to it.

Eventually I just stood up, got his car keys and asked him to leave because I was determined not to get drawn back into his distorted world view. He was still protesting and trying to read from the list of sins as I very gently and carefully maneuvered him toward the door.

When he realized I wasn't going to listen he got in my face and I told him that if he didn't step back I would call the police and have him removed. This was so unexpected to him (my therapists advice) that he went.

Of course we paid dearly for refusing to sign his list by being banned from his life. But, you know what? I'm okay about that at the moment. We're all doing much better apart. I know where he is and that he is safe and working and at this point? That's okay.