Normal doubts about leaving, or sliding back into co-dependency?

[UndauntedDad]

I thought this would be a good topic for the undecided board, though most days I convince myself that I have decided to leave my uBPDw of 14 yrs.

BACKGROUND:

We've had some hard times (understatement) and eventually I realized that divorce / separation would be less damaging to my wife and s8 than some of the other "solutions" I was constantly fantasizing about. Read books, came here, saw 2 therapists, both told me I was strongly co-dependent.  Worked on my self, made my decision to leave in a year's time, and told my wife.  THEN suddenly she started changing.  She saw a therapist, enrolled in DBT, changed her meds, started treating me differently, etc., she really seems to be getting better.

THE PROBLEM:

I still feel like I need to leave.  I have vivid dreams and fantasies about escape.  I still slip into co-dependent behaviors at home (so much easier), I still feel intense fear and anger triggered by small things my wife does, and then I lose self-respect, or feel depressed. 

Yet I feel SOO guilty.  She fears abandonment, she is trying to do everything she can, meanwhile my son never hurt anyone, and I am deciding to break up the family.  We're planning a slow, smooth separation but it will still be traumatic for everyone.  Basically, I'm having second thoughts about leaving, but I don't really trust myself.  Both therapists strongly urged me to leave, at least for some time.

QUESTION:

Can anyone give me advice on how to distinguish normal, healthy second thoughts (good), versus wanting to give up my dream of independence and backslide into my old, comfortable, co-dependent ways (bad)?

Anyone have any success stories of grappling with the thorny decision of leaving a marriage?

[empathic]

I'm not sure I have an answer for you, but your situation is very similar to mine.

We've been together 15 years, have two kids 11 and 9. Wife changed a lot after we had children, took out her anger and stress on me. I first brought up divorce 3 years ago after her raging at me.

This summer I moved out for one night after things became unbearable for several weeks. After that she turned on a dime, and has been behaving a lot differently (no anger, more independent). I had made my mind up to separate but was drawn back in and am now unsure how to proceed. I told her I had made the decision, but she said she wasn't ready for separation.

When she's under stress, like a few days ago, she demands that I make my mind up.

I also fantasise about the freedom. My wife has been away for a few nights and things have been so much easier at home. No stress in making dinner or getting the kids ready for school. Usually I hear her stressful voice all the time during those chores.

The guilt is also there, that I'm a really terrible husband that doesn't even love my wife. Feel bad about how a separation will affect the children.

Sorry to not have more of an answer for you, really good topic though.

[18yearsandtired]

This is me too. Feeling so guilty that I feel no empathy, 18 years of verbal and emotional abuse and anger has made me cold. I am NOT a cold person, but I cannot make myself feel the way I should, or would for anyone else. What's worse, is he is so great at seeing my faults and calls me out on them all the time - even though he is trying so hard, he has to tell me everything I am doing wrong, not loving enough, not looking or kissing the right way to being happier with everyone else. Being told you are everything to someone is not right, and it worries me for my family and kids and him. I do love him and care about him - but I am tired of trying to prove it all the time. How you will manage, I am curious.

[UndauntedDad]

I think the times when I feel the most clear-headed about my situation, and what to do, are when I focus on myself. My therapist has told me I'm unlikely to really break codependent habits and recover from the abuse unless I can separate, and spend more time alone.  Now that I can see the pretzel I twisted into, and the denial I was in, for so many years, I have to admit that there's wisdom  in that advice.  For me, there's a great danger of deceiving myself that things are good enough or getting better.  I'm good at that.

It helps me a lot to come here, and read things of other members.  Even hearing that other people are also confused and unsure is really helpful!

18yrs, I think if you truly had no empathy, you wouldn't be asking yourself that and feeling so guilty. One thing that helped me a lot was finally understanding/ listening to others /convincing myself that in the long term, the separation can help my wife get better too.  My co-dependent, over-caretaking habits are not really helping her, or me.  "Trying to make her happy" didn't work out so well. Time to try something different.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Undaunted, empathic and 18years, Divorced two years ago, I was married to my BPDxW for 16 years so am in a different place than all of you.  My Ex and I have two kids together, both teenagers, and remain in limited contact.  I was once in your shoes and understand the quandary in which you find yourselves.  You could say that I've come out on the other side.  I can't tell you what to do, but will offer some suggestions on finding the right path:

1.  Beware of F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt), which is the three-pronged pitchfork that a pwBPD uses to manipulate a Non.  I was quite susceptible to manipulation, and my Ex, like most pwBPD, was an expert at it.

2.  Listen to your gut feelings.  I ignored mine and it led to a lot of rationalizing and justifying in order to live with my Ex's outrageous behavior.  I pretended that things were OK, when they were not.  I was basically living a lie, which is difficult to sustain.

3.  Avoid getting isolated.  Under pressure from my BPDxW, I got out of contact with friends and family, which caused me to lose perspective on life.  Those friends and family serve an important purpose as a reality check.  Plus, they are presumably people who knew you before the BPD tidal wave hit, which gives them an objectivity that is often lacking in oneself.

4.  Be careful not to deplete your resources.  Towards the end, I was physically, financially and emotionally drained by the stress of marriage to a pwBPD.  I had nothing left in the tank.

Hopefully some of these suggestions might prove helpful to you.  Feel free to fire away with any specific questions.

LuckyJim

[Moselle]

Hello Undaunted.

What is your heart telling you to do?

I'm so sorry you are in this difficult situation.  I can echo Lucky Jim's experiences though I am still in the fire of a high conflict divorce. I can also empathise with this agonising decision.

My decision came gradually by enforcing my boundaries hoping she would decide to join me with a choice for health.  I spent 18 months trying to make things work. Including a separation. It didn't work. My suggestion is not to separate. Once you do it becomes very very difficult to recover. Her feelings of abandonment will be so powerful that she is unlikely to ever trust you again. If you have hopes for a reconciliation, work from within the marriage on your co-dependence. If you have no hopes - then divorce.  

I suggest you read a book called "Splitting. Divorcing some one with BPD or NPD" by Kreger before you proceed any further with separation. It will help you understand what you need to do to protect yourself whether you split or not.

Bear in mind that separation can trigger all sorts of behaviour in a pw BPD ranging from the bizarre to the outright dangerous.

Mine is in the dangerous category and I was caught completely off guard  by it.

I see your wife is undiagnosed

Is she aware/cognisant of BPD?

[UndauntedDad]

Thanks  lot, Lucky Jim, your wise post reinforced some of my gut feelings and made me feel a lot better. Funny, I notice how, when I spend time alone, speak to my very close friends, my therapist, or come here, I feel OK about leaving, and about my own mental health (relatively speaking).  After I spend time with my wife, I feel... .not OK.  Not OK about leaving, or marriage, or my mental health.  She's no longer trying to hurt me, she's very pleasant now, but it's a flag that I feel one way with her and different with everyone else.  So, avoiding isolation seems smart.

It's so helpful to hear the experiences of others, at different stages in this... .

Moselle, sorry to hear about your own troubles.  It sounds awful.  I did read Splitting, I'm preparing for the worst but hopeful that it might not get that bad. My wife is pretty high functioning, she's in therapy, has read a BPD book, and is enrolled in DBT.  She doesn't fully accept that she may have BPD traits, but she is working on herself, earnestly.  We can communicate openly about our problems now.

My heart still tells me to go (and my dreams, and my friends, and my gut... .).  Separation sounds better, it is easier for my wife to accept than divorce, but I see divorce as inevitable.

Still, I'll heed your warning that it might get really bad during separation.  Thanks.

looks like I'll probably be hanging around here at BPD family for a while... .

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Undaunted, You're welcome.  I admire your courage.  I think you are on a path towards greater happiness, which is what it's all about, right?  LJ

[ArleighBurke]

When my uPBDw is "good" (not yelling, treating me well, etc) I always wonder whether that's the real her or not? Will she be able to keep it up? This is probably because there have been many times where I will comment to her "Wow - the last 2 weeks we've been working really well. No arguements, slight disagreements - this feels nice" and she'll respond with "I'm still annoyed with you all the time, I'm just bottling it up".

I too fantasise about leaving. Having my own space. I would still have my 3 kids live with me - but somehow it would feel so much more free.

I guess we've all been conditioned to think that staying and working it out is the "right" thing to do.

[bpbreakout]

Similar situation, married 20 years d16, s14. Not much in the way of advice I'm afraid. We are currently living apart as the constant caretaking and arguing got too much for me & nearly dragged me under. BPDw is very antagonistic & has started to get physical and blaming it on me. I'm now in limbo trying to work out whether to go back or stay away for good. The separation is making it more difficult to reconcile but I'm also really scared that the fighting could escalate.

I was in a similar position to you for many years and fantasised what it would be if I left. One thing I did do was go and see a lawyer and work out as best I could what the situation would be re children and assets post divorce. That helped me a lot & meant I was mentally ready to leave when things got too much rather than in a total panic.

One thing I found was that BPDw and our daughter have a toxic relationship & I get dragged into their fighting (co-dependency scenarios here) . If I had known how bad this would get 10 years ago I would have left earlier. It has damaged our daughter's schooling, her sense of self and my relationship with my daughter at the same time.

The co-dependence is an issue. After 20 yrs of marriage makes you feel like you have nothing to offer to anyone other than caretaking and fixing. I'm going the check out the local CODA branch which could help me.

Not sure about your situation but if I knew 10 yrs ago what I know now I would have done a lot more work on myself instead of constantly worrying about how BPDw was behaving towards the children.

What are the situations that make you fearful and angry ? Sounds like you may need to pay heed to those.


 

[Moselle]

My wife is pretty high functioning, she's in therapy, has read a BPD book, and is enrolled in DBT.  She doesn't fully accept that she may have BPD traits, but she is working on herself, earnestly.  We can communicate openly about our problems now.

Undaunted, these things are very very difficukt, but here is another scenario. As pw BPD  go, she is demonstrating well above average commitment to change. Bear in mind that for a pwBPD to take these steps it is very, very courageous. I've done a fair bit of research into what its like to be to be a pw BPD and read stuff by pw BPD whom have actually recovered from the disease. Only you can judge whether she is serious about change. Did she take these steps on her own initiative? Her actions tell you more about her desire to change than admitting to traits.

Have you considered validating her for her efforts and dedicating yourself to working with her on it as an option?