Difficult custody case. Not sure what to do next.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So I've had a horrible experience these past 6 months with a partner who is not diagnosed but shows clear BPD and paranoid behaviors. She took me to court over custody of our 4 year old daughter claiming sexual abuse and neglectful parenting and requested a move away. My lawyer convinced me to agree to 24/7 nanny supervision and to give her more money in child support just so that I wouldn't run the risk of losing the established 50-50 custody. But as soon as I signed the agreement, my partner started to do everything in her power to limit my access to my daughter and she was separated from me for about a month until I found a nanny who could work with the schedule.

During the 4 months that I had the nanny, my partner was aggressive, reported me to DCFS, threatened to call the police on me for visiting my daughter at school, tried to exclude me from school events, got into fights with the nanny in front of my daughter, tried to get the nanny removed, lied about her care of my daughter, and did everything in her power to portray me as an unfit parent and get my child taken away from me. She even told DCFS that one of her primary 'family goals' was to limit the time, access and influence I have on our daughter.

After documenting and describing these behaviors to the 730 evaluator, I thought that there would be no way that he would recommend the move away. I was cleared of the sexual abuse/neglect charges, but because of my 'permissive parenting', the evaluator said that if he was required to make a binary decision about the move away, that he would 'reluctantly' choose my partner over me. It is clear from the report that he believes it would be best for my daughter if she stayed and we shared custody, but he completely ignored many of the behaviors I documented and chose instead to focus almost exclusively on our respective parenting skills to make his recommendations.

At this point I'm not sure what to do. Do I go to court and present the evidence that I have that wasn't included in the evaluator's report and try to make the case that my partner's desire to exclude me from my daughter's life trumps my permissive parenting which can be corrected? Or is it time to give up and assume the court will follow the evaluator's recommendations if she sticks to her request for a move away?

[aparenti]

So I've had a horrible experience these past 6 months with a partner who is not diagnosed but shows clear BPD and paranoid behaviors. She took me to court over custody of our 4 year old daughter claiming sexual abuse and neglectful parenting and requested a move away. My lawyer convinced me to agree to 24/7 nanny supervision and to give her more money in child support just so that I wouldn't run the risk of losing the established 50-50 custody. But as soon as I signed the agreement, my partner started to do everything in her power to limit my access to my daughter and she was separated from me for about a month until I found a nanny who could work with the schedule.

During the 4 months that I had the nanny, my partner was aggressive, reported me to DCFS, threatened to call the police on me for visiting my daughter at school, tried to exclude me from school events, got into fights with the nanny in front of my daughter, tried to get the nanny removed, lied about her care of my daughter, and did everything in her power to portray me as an unfit parent and get my child taken away from me. She even told DCFS that one of her primary 'family goals' was to limit the time, access and influence I have on our daughter.

After documenting and describing these behaviors to the 730 evaluator, I thought that there would be no way that he would recommend the move away. I was cleared of the sexual abuse/neglect charges, but because of my 'permissive parenting', the evaluator said that if he was required to make a binary decision about the move away, that he would 'reluctantly' choose my partner over me. It is clear from the report that he believes it would be best for my daughter if she stayed and we shared custody, but he completely ignored many of the behaviors I documented and chose instead to focus almost exclusively on our respective parenting skills to make his recommendations.

At this point I'm not sure what to do. Do I go to court and present the evidence that I have that wasn't included in the evaluator's report and try to make the case that my partner's desire to exclude me from my daughter's life trumps my permissive parenting which can be corrected? Or is it time to give up and assume the court will follow the evaluator's recommendations if she sticks to her request for a move away?

[aparenti]

My lawyer is recommending that I try to get my partner to negotiate a custody arrangement, but from what I know of her, she will not settle if there is any chance that she will be given permission to move away because she really does want to remove me from her life.

[enlighten me]

Hi aparenti

I can understand your situation completely. My ex wife moved my sons away and I tried to fight it. I didn't know about BPD at the time but did worry about my exs mental health. I got a psyche eval done and it didn't go well for me. They diagnosed situational depression caused by me.

Im in the UK so the laws a bit different. We also had 50/50 custody and still do. My boys were older at the time than your daughter.

Im now in the situation that my sons live with me and don't want anything to do with their mum. It was a long painful road to travel but for me it worked out in the end.

I personally would speak to your lawyer about if going to court would be beneficial. If there is strong evidence of parental alienation then that would go in your favour. It also might be worth talking to the school. If your daughter is happy and settled then you could argue that moving her would have a negative effect. You could also get the schools insight into the mum. Is she a trouble maker with them. Has your daughter said anything that worries them etc.

Hopefully someone else will be able to offer better advice.

I wish you luck

EM

p.s. I would also like to add that for me it was hard to separate my emotions. Just because I felt it was wrong and in my head the weight of evidence seemed stacked against her didn't mean that it was how others saw it.

[Panda39]

Hi Aparenti, 

How about you proactively take a parenting class to work on adjusting your parenting style and fine tuning your parenting skills?  It couldn't hurt and could help.  I agree with enlighten me talk with a lawyer and work out going back to court and a strategy if you do decide to go back.

Keep up the documentation... .communicate via email only so you have everything in writing. Respond only to legitimate emails regarding the kids... .ignore all the drama, garbage, and FOG (fear, obligation & guilt) that will be thrown your way.

Use BIFF... .www.highconflictinstitute.com/biff-responses/78-hci-articles/published-articles/87-responding-to-hostile-email

You might also want to read up on parental alienation (Divorce Poison New and Updated Edition: How to Protect Your Family from Bad-mouthing and Brainwashing by Dr. Richard A. WarshaK)

My SO found the best defense against parental alienation was the time spent with his children.  Demand and take all the time the court has ordered so far.

Hang in there,

Panda39

[aparenti]

Thanks. I'm taking parenting classes now and hope to get a few sessions in with a therapist before I go back to court so they can back me up on my commitment to address these issues that were brought up about my parenting.

I'm a bit perplexed as to why the evaluator chose to ignore my partner's obvious attempts to limit access to my daughter but I have a lot of documented evidence of her saying this so hopefully it will make an impact if presented to the judge.

[enlighten me]

Sounds like your doing the right things.

Im curious as to the form of evidence you have? Is it emails saying you cant have your daughter or diary entries on your behalf?

Some evidence might be ignored out of hand as not being able to substantiate it. i.e a diary entry can just be written and can say whatever you want it to.

[aparenti]

Im curious as to the form of evidence you have? Is it emails saying you cant have your daughter or diary entries on your behalf?

Lots of emails. She explicitly states that she thinks I am dangerous and that limiting my access to our daughter is what is best for her.

Here is a fairly recent example:

"THAT is what I feel would be best for R. Her daddy actually becoming a good parent so she can have a healthy relationship with him.

Until that happens... .I am deeply saddened that I have to take these steps to protect our child. But that's my JOB as her mother. To protect her & make sure she continues to grow up to be the wonderful sweet caring individual she is at her core. But, your choices have shown that in order for that to happen, she needs to limit her contact with you. It's only a matter of time before you have to face the reality that everyone but you can see this.

My prayer for you is that you can get over your narcissistic stubbornness and take a look at yourself... .change your ways... .so you can become a productive member of R's life, instead of a dangerous and destructive one."

[enlighten me]

Hi Aparenti

I hate to tell you this but I think a court would look at that differently. This is what I mean about separate your emotions. You know she's projecting and the email seems crazy but you have to put that aside and see it from a strangers perspective.

You need ones that contradict each other. That show her behaviour as not normal. Any threats of if you don't do this then I wont let you see your daughter.  You also need to show that you have never been a danger to your daughter.

Im not saying this to put you off. I thought I had a strong case. I based my evidence on what my ex wife told me. She said she had been diagnosed with ME and bi polar. When her records came back there where no such diagnoses. My case fell apart especially after the psyche eval came back as situational depression caused by me.

If you do go to court try and find a lawyer that is experienced in high conflict cases and has dealt with personality disorders.

EM

[ForeverDad]

When I arrived here I too expressed that my spouse, then separated, had #1 Paranoid PD traits and #2 Borderline PD traits.  I don't see Paranoid mentioned much here, so I generally just refer to BPD.  I did get one of Bill Eddy's books - High Conflict People in Legal Disputes - that listed the problem acting-out PDs and in addition to the usual Cluster-B group (Narcissistic, Borderline, Antisocial, Histrionic) it also included Paranoid as a 5th problem PD.

If you don't have it already, you need Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger.

She keeps circling around to state you're dangerous despite all the professionals who say you're not.  Mine did that too.  Fortunate for me, my local professionals eventually - I repeat, eventually - saw through that and over time she lost more and more credibility.  Focus on how her refusal to accept the professional's conclusions and her continuing obstruction of your parenting and noncompliance with the nanny settlement impacts (1) your parenting and (2) your daughter.  Of course, her first attempt alleging abuse and endangerment didn't work as well as she expected so by moving away she is again seeking to sabotage you from the start.

My Custody Evaluator boiled it down to "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can."  Basically, I looked better than my ex.  At the time she had temp custody and majority time.  But that evaluation was enough for me to walk out in the final decree with a 'settlement' of Shared Parenting, equal time and me as Residential Parent.  :)idn't quite work, the obstruction, confrontations and denigration continued.  I did have to go back to court a few more times over the years.  Eventually they all saw through her but still refused to confront her bluntly that she was sabotaging herself.  Each time we were back in court, she lost some of her parental authority or parenting time.  Eight years later our roles are nearly reversed (she still has more time than I did in the beginning) and finally we have an order that works - with me in firm control - because I could Share whereas she couldn't Share.

Please don't give up or give in.  Beware of settling for something that she can sabotage.  Yes, the agreement should have worked but what she did was just attack the nanny too.  Even though it was a settlement and settlements are hard to undo, you need to get the court to see it didn't work and undo it.  Yes, they will see it was her that is causing all the problems, but they are going to be reluctant to call her out on her poor behaviors.  Their fixes are often, as experienced here, baby step fixes.  But don't let that stop you from fighting for your parenting and for your child.

The one behaving poorly seldom gets consequences and the one behaving well seldom gets credit. :'(

[aparenti]

Thanks ForeverDad

Your experience sounds similar to mine. I actually spoke with Bill Eddy on the phone and he identified both BPD and paranoid personality traits when I described my partners behavior.

I wouldn't be as concerned if this had the potential to evolve over time, but there is a move away request, and if my partner is granted the move away request, I'm worried that will be it because I will no longer have any control of the situation.

I will continue to document these behaviors and see if the court puts any more emphasis on her ability to share custody.

[ForeverDad]

Can you get a Custody Evaluation or its equivalent ordered to be completed before she can move?  Get one recommended by Bill Eddy.  The problem is that when facing a Reasonable Parent and a Brick Wall parent, many CEs can default to the one who refuses to negotiate or counterattacks.  A good, solid, reputable evaluator can make all the difference.

BTW - You can tell the court you have absolutely NO objections to her moving away, umm, as long as daughter stays local.   What I'm saying is that you're not being obstructive to ex herself, you just want to be a deeply involved parent.

Also, D will be in school soon, if you can, seek to be Residential Parent for School Purposes.  That alone would nix mother's move away tactic.

Also, make sure your 50/50 isn't trashed from the order if the court eventually grants mother to move away with D.  Why?  You might later be able to 'follow'.  Of course, be aware she then would move again... .

[aparenti]

Yes, we just completed a custody evaluation which was the reason for this post. The eval cleared me of the allegations my partner was making about me and recommended joint custody. But it also said that if forced to make a decision about the move away, that he would choose the mother because he felt that she provided more structure and better boundaries.

My problem is that the eval virtually ignored all of the behaviors I had described that showed my parter has very little interest in preserving my relationship with my daughter and I thought that would have been a bigger factor.

I'd take a look into the other stuff. Thanks for your advice.

[aparenti]

I hate to tell you this but I think a court would look at that differently. This is what I mean about separate your emotions. You know she's projecting and the email seems crazy but you have to put that aside and see it from a strangers perspective.

I might be missing something because I don't see how a statement from my partner saying that she feels that I'm a danger to my daughter and must limit my access to her is not relevant in a custody case. Sure I have to prove that I'm not a danger, but the evaluator has already determined that.

It's really difficult to understand what to present to a judge to convince them that these personality behaviors are real and dangerous to the child because they are not therapists. But you hope someone who was trained in this field would mention something about my partner's seeming obsession with how dangerous I am and how adamant she has been about limiting and controlling my access to our daughter. That doesn't seem like a behavior that bodes well in a move away situation.

[enlighten me]

Hi Aparenti

It is a matter of perspective. The statement could be looked at as her being a protective mum and worrying about her daughter because of you.

Im not doubting that her behaviour is wrong but the problem I had was how my ex wife played the victim and cast me as the persecutor.

Her response to you using this letter would probably be to paint you black to a court and say that she wrote it to protect her child. You then have to disprove her allegations but the damage may already have been done.

This is what I was trying to say before. You need obvious statements that have nothing in them that cast doubt on you. Such as " If you don't pay me more money you cant see your daughter" or Im not letting you see your daughter as I have plans".

It might help to have someone that doesn't know the situation read them and sort the ones out that show her behaviour as alienating you or being unreasonable.

I hope this makes sense.

EM

[aparenti]

It is a matter of perspective. The statement could be looked at as her being a protective mum and worrying about her daughter because of you.

I think this is why it is so difficult to present this stuff to a court. I was looking at Craig Childress's model of parental alienation and this basically a textbook description of how it works. The borderline parent has a tendency to be hypervigilant, feeling vulnerable in a dangerous world where no one can be trusted and becomes obsessed with other parent being a danger. They therefore take on the role of the 'protective' parent, casting the other parent as the 'abuser' and put the child into a 'victim' role which is enforced by subtle manipulation of the child's interpretation of experiences that they have with the other parent. In this way, the borderline parent uses the child as a way of coping with their abandonment fear by getting from the child what they are no longer getting from their partner. This dynamic is detrimental to the child because they do not learn to trust their own interpretation of experiences and their behavior becomes enmeshed with the needs of the borderline parent, which manifests as a rejection of the 'abusive' parent.

In Childress's model, parental alienation is not a blatant and overt kind of thing. It requires special training to see and can sometimes be misinterpreted because it looks as if the 'protective' parent is the good parent and that the child is rightfully rejecting the 'abusive' parent.

I may need to find an evaluator or therapist that has more experience with this understanding of parental alienation in order to figure out how to present the evidence to the court in a way that makes sense.

[enlighten me]

Hi Aparenti

You've got what I was trying to say spot on. Your post explains it better than I did.

I struggled trying to get my perspective across. To me it seemed so obvious what was going on. But the court could only go on the evidence presented. They didn't see all the subtle behaviours that I did.

Im not trying to discourage you here. I just wish my lawyer had been a bit more honest with me about my evidence. If I could do it again I would certainly do it differently. Im sure looking back I had plenty of evidence that could have swayed things but I concentrated on stuff that in my opinion showed her behaviour but in reality it was more to do with how it made me feel rather than having any real substance.

EM

I keep meaning to say but forget. The evaluator confirmed that you are not a danger to your daughter. This could be a way of using the statement. By showing all the evidence that you are not and have never been a danger to your daughter you could argue that her behaviour and the accusations of being a danger are not healthy and you fear that this could lead to parental alienation. This is something that your lawyer would have to look at. Just a thought.

[aparenti]

I struggled trying to get my perspective across. To me it seemed so obvious what was going on. But the court could only go on the evidence presented. They didn't see all the subtle behaviours that I did.

This is definitely the challenge. There are more overt behaviors that I can reference: using visitation as a reward/punishment for my compliance with her needs, refusing to allow me to hire a temp nanny when the regular nanny was unavailable, threatening to call the police on me for visiting my daughter at school, refusing to allow me to speak with my child when she was angry at me, refusing to give me information about my daughter's health when in her care, etc.

The question is how to present this information in a way that will make an impact on the court. My thought at the moment is that I should look into hiring an expert who has experience with high conflict personality types and parental alienation to look at the evidence and write their own report on my behalf that can be submitted to the court.

[enlighten me]

I think the more overt behaviours is a good place to start.

Maybe doing a timeline would show it more clearly.

By logging all the interactions by date you can build up a picture of her behaviour. By doing it this way it may be more obvious to an outsider how she has behaved.

It would show her contradicting herself.

[ForeverDad]

Parents separate.

Conflict existed before but now escalates. *

Mother starts making serious allegations. (note: after separation, big PA clue)

Agencies get involved.

Agencies conclude Father is reasonably normal and not dangerous or abusive.

Mother continues to claim Father is dangerous.

Mother obstructs nanny, even making allegations against nanny or nannies.

Despite obstructions Father still gets some parenting.

Mother decides moving away will finally succeed is driving Father away.

Evaluator sees some parental conflict but not rising to level of being 'actionable'.

Evaluator defaults to mother as primary parent.

Evaluator fails to see (or identify) that Mother is obstructing Father.

Father's parenting is at risk.

Evaluator, lawyer, agencies, court all need to step up and address what is really happening as simply outlined above.

* Perhaps ex is a dictatorial controller -- Control or else feel Controlled -- and the only way to control you is through your child.  Perhaps your ex feels she has to make you look worse than her, even if it means making allegations so horrendous that if true could put you in prison.  Perhaps ex feels she has to save your child from abductors, abusers and the world.  (Those were my ex's issues when we separated and our son was 3 years old.)  Perhaps other reasons too.

[momtara]

Ugh, I am sorry this is happening. I hate the idea that you have to compromise because you're worried things will get worse. You have 50/50 now and your ex is unreasonable. Making up charges against you - that's terrible.

How far away does your wife want to move?

There are a few dads who have been thru similar things. Hope they can give you some good advice. I don't think you should fight with the CE but maybe prevail upon her that being so diplomatic could hurt your daughter. She deserves both parents.

Someone suggested taking a parenting class. It seems like you spend so much time defending yourself that I don't know if you have extra, but I'm also not familiar with how courts look at stuff like that. Just know that there are dads here who have been thru the worst and as a few have commented, their kids ended up with them in the end... .but it was a long road. I don't think it's worth taking the chance.

There has been no change in circumstance and no reason for you to really lose 50/50 so would it still work if she moved away? What if your wife had to do pickups or something?

[AlonelyOne]

HOLY !@#$% !@#$

Your exes phraseology sounds nearly identical to my exes.   Scarily so.

"THAT is what I feel would be best for R. Her daddy actually becoming a good parent so she can have a healthy relationship with him.

Until that happens... .I am deeply saddened that I have to take these steps to protect our child. But that's my JOB as her mother. To protect her & make sure she continues to grow up to be the wonderful sweet caring individual she is at her core. But, your choices have shown that in order for that to happen, she needs to limit her contact with you. It's only a matter of time before you have to face the reality that everyone but you can see this."

I swear my ex uses so many of those type phrases, affirming she's sad it has to be this way, your choice, shown, matter of time, face the reality, everyone but you.

HS HS HS!

[AlonelyOne]

I wonder if we all reviewed our conversations with out BPDX's if we'd see a trend in commonality in keyword usage.

It would be really interesting to take all the texts and emails and from all of our BPDXs and add them into a database and mine for commonality of usage.  Imagine if we could declare someone BPD just by their words and phrases.

============

"You need to get over your obsession with me. There's no chance you will be mentally healthy since you refuse to seek treatment so you really need to find something else to be obsessed with."

KEYWORDS: "You need", "your obsession", "you really"

I'd like nothing more than to never have to deal with her. Oh, I am the only one getting therapy. She has refused.  In fact, she failed to take the kids to their therapy for 1/2 a year. Yet, of course... .that wasn't held against her.


***


"The judge asked a question to see if **** cared about his kids, the answer was *no i hate my ex*.   It's the kind of question you'd only notice was being asked if you did care about your kids, so sadly went right over his head."


KEYWORDS: "if cared", "sadly" (sad references seem to be very common usage).

Of course the judge said no such thing.


***

"I wish you would consider caring for your kids more then you hate me."

KEYWORDS: "caring"

Anyone one else's BPD ex ALWAYS turn it to an accusation that you don't care about your kids. While everyone else clearly observes that you do.

***

"You need to get serious treatment before we can really discuss things,"

"I really don't think I can make a decision about this with the way things are right now."

KEYWORD: "really"


***

"You are the only one who can fix this problem and you won't take the steps to do it."

KEYWORDS: "You are"

This is pretty much ALWAYS the excuse for not discussing, negotiating or compromising.


***

"There is no discussion while you live in your terrible fantasy. Until you want to fix your life you can't"

KEYWORDS: "your/you"

It's always this attitude of "I wish I could, but I can't... .because of you." And no, they never can give specifics. They're not obligated to tell you what your problems are.  LOLZ

[GaGrl]

I used software in my grad programs that performed qualitative analysis on text passages... .it would be fascinating to use it like this!

[enlighten me]

There was an article that I read recently that used this to show ASPD.

www.livescience.com/16585-psychopaths-speech-language.html

I also had a discussion with a friend who did a psychology about my exs texting style. I don't know if its a common trend but in the beginning it was full of spelling mistakes and incorrect punctuation. Lots of ! when not necessary. At the end it was perfect. Very business like.