When to be firm...and when to accomodate

[formflier]

So... .quick backstory... .we are moving... .looking for new jobs... .hoping all of this is complete by December (ish). 

Wife is getting back into teaching over the last while.  And has been offered and accepted a job at out new location.

Looks like she will be leaving in few days.

So... .for those of you familiar with the drama of compromising and making plans with a pwBPD... .I've got issues there too.

Based on a closing schedule for the house... .my wife and I have been in agreement for a long time about Thanksgiving break as the target time to pull kids from school down here... .and got up there.  Several other report card and schedule issues matched up with that timing to make it better than other choices.

Moving kids from one school to another in middle of the year... .sucks... .but... .it is what it is.

When my wife has brought up applying for jobs I have provide no direction... .only support and encouragement.  In other words... even when she asked if she should apply... .I have never said yes or know.

"It's your career... .if you believe this opportunity is a good fit... .then trust your judgement" is something like I normally say.

Well... .when this opportunity came up there was discussion of what would happen if she got a job before thanksgiving break.  My wife has tendency to be "my way or the highway... " so I was careful to ask if she was ok going before kids and if getting the job meant certain things "had to" happen a certain way.

She assured me there was plenty of flexibility... .so I expressed no concerns about the application or timing.

Well... .today... .I was informed that she "has to" take D5 and S7 with her when "she moves" on Tuesday.  Yep... two days.

I didn't react... we spent some time talking.  To include confirming that she did indicate flexibility... .and that she never actually felt that way.

She didn't explain why she didn't take hard stance earlier.

I offered some compromises that might help... .or where I would be ok with pulling those two kids earlier. 

She didn't want to work on any of that and said that she would just email the principle that she couldn't start until after Thanksgiving if that was what I was "making her" do.

I tried to validate that it was tough to feel made to do things... .but her career was her choice and the kids schedules and schools were "our" choices to compromise on.  Very different.

I'll give her a hand that the discussion was very respectful compared to others we have had.

We left it undecided but we were both clear that we wanted to make a decision.  I let her know I was fine with emailing principle... .or finding a compromise. 

Anyway... .I need to think through what (if anything) I am going to do if she goes "old school" and withdraws children from school and moves them 8 hours away without consent or compromise.

I have no idea how much she has researched custody issues... .but in my state it appears I can have them back here in 10 days... .if I push the issue with a judge.  I haven't ever told her this... .nor will I  If I ever used this... .I would just do it. 

OK... .I get it that this would be a nuke (I've pulled other nukes in the past and survived)... .but I would see saying "no compromise... .I'm taking the kids and you will deal with it... " as a nuke as well.

I'm asking for thoughts and observations to help me think this through... .

FF

[Turkish]

So she wants to break of the squadron... .to meet her needs (abandoning, but not feelng abandoned). It's hard to validate this. Executing the nuclear option is likely to trigger something like MAD. Can you think of ways to validate her, but spinning it into what's best for the kids?

[C.Stein]

My only thought is try to not put your kids in the middle.

[Notwendy]

I might be a bit confused here, but if your family needs your wife's income, and she has a good job offer, then it is in everyone's benefit for her to take it. Perhaps the job is not flexible- and they need her now. I know this is not something you wanted, but perhaps it is something that she thinks is a good idea.

I don't think I understand why she has to take two of the kids with her, but she may have a good reason, or it may be a preference. From what I recall, it seems that she has family nearby and I assume that she will stay with them before your house is ready. Perhaps she doesn't want to be away from the younger ones all that long- feels the older ones are more independent.


It isn't for a long period of time. Thanksgiving is only 3 weeks away. Also, a 5 and 7 year old are the least likely to be affected academically/socially by a school move when compared to older children. At that age, kids basically play with each other, are learning basic reading/math skills. High school/middle school is more of a disruption. So, I don't think that moving the younger ones 3 weeks early will make a big difference over the impact of a move in general and they are moving anyway.

From what I have read, she has family nearby. Perhaps the kids have cousins/relatives they would enjoy being with.


There would be one reason I would put my foot down- if you are concerned about any danger or abuse to them. However, even if you stayed with them, they would be spending time alone with her anyway. I get the sense that your wife is safe with the kids in general- she teaches and manages a large family. Although the relatives may be dysfunctional, on a 3 week basis, I don't know if it would be considered dangerous to them.


I understand that your wife has broken some agreements before, but this is job related. Although it is good for spouses to be in agreement on where and when to move for a job, not all jobs fit into that plan. Your wife has been sending you some texts indicating her fears about the financial support of the family, this is actually a positive response to that fear- she got a job. I think you did the right thing to step out of that job search- it is her career and this is the job she will be doing. She did consider you and the family by looking in the area you are planning to move to. She didn't take a job somewhere else and try to take the kids there, or propose a move 6 months early- it is a few weeks. Her e mails indicate a lack of feeling supported by you, and so, agreeing to her plans could be a way to support her job search.  It's actually a good thing for your family that she has this job and something to celebrate. Although you wish to be the head of the household, your family needs her income, and supporting her career decision is doing a good thing for all of you.

I understand that you don't like the idea, but unless there is a real danger to the kids, I don't know if it is a good idea to dig your heels on this one.

[formflier]

 

I have asked lots of questions... .and she has no explanation for why she indicated before taking the job that there was lots of flexibility and kids could stay here... .yet now... .apparently 2 days before she intends to leave... .the kids have to go.

That is the only way.

We do need the money... .

I have heard nothing in her reasoning or explanations other than "everyone knows" they "have to" go with me.

When asked what has changed... .no answer... .

There is part of me that is weary of this.  I'm fine with doing the hard work of compromise and discussion and making uncomfortable choices... .if I am getting something out of it.

A marriage where you are dictated to and have no decision making power over things that are precious to you... .man... .that's tough to work with.

Hope we can figure out a way forward today... .

FF

[formflier]

It isn't for a long period of time. Thanksgiving is only 3 weeks away. 

This was my point exactly... .she kept saying... "it's only for 3 weeks... .it's not a big deal". 

My point... "exactly... .you are not moving away from them permanently"... ."we can keep stability in their lives... .especially for D5"

We just had teacher conferences and D5 is doing much better in kindergarten.  This was discussed when original plan was devised.

Money:  Our family will "survive" without any income from my wife.  I really appreciate the effort she makes.  It was her decision.  She has been saying she wants to work for a long time... .now she is.

I get the abandonment angle that Turkish brings up... .I don't know how to validate it either.  I think it could be at play here.

I'm a stayer... .however I've obviously decided it's not at all costs.  I've done things before that would be consider "nukes"... .and we've recovered.  Major changes have happened in our family that were good after I did those things.

Oh yeah:  To be clear... .it has been a long time since I have perceived any "danger" to the kids... that is not in my mind.

What I am concerned about is

[Notwendy]

I am getting something out of it.




You are getting the security of financial support for you and your family. Even if you can survive without it, it benefits the family.

A marriage where you are dictated to and have no decision making power over things that are precious to you... .man... .that's tough to work with.


I can see how someone with BPD would not be sensitive to their partner's feelings and overstep the power balance in the relationship.

Although  this feels hurtful, I think in the grand scheme of things, it is not a major separation between you and the kids. It is 3 weeks. My first concern would be about the kids. Would they feel OK? If they are in the care of family, then they are probably just fine. Many kids spend a few weeks with relatives and it is a fun adventure for them. Yes, you will miss them, but I think this is a situation where you will need to consider the pros and cons in terms of the kids, and 3 weeks is not a long time.

Your wife may feel eager to start this new job. Maybe it isn't as flexible as she had hoped. Perhaps this job is also fulfilling to her in non financial ways.

[formflier]

 

So... .we talked about it... .she said the only thing she would be ok with was to let the principal know that she couldn't start until after thanksgiving.

I let her know if that was the only other option that was acceptable to her... .that it was acceptable to me and I could consider the matter closed.

She said fine... that's what we'll do... .I will call her and let her know... we'll see what happens.

I said fine... .we are in agreement. 

We left the room... .and things seemed ok.

We walk kids over to school and she goes up to teacher... and tells the teacher that "probably" tomorrow will be D5s last day at school.

We left the room and I said  "Can you help me understand what you just told the teacher in light of the decision we just made"

She then said "Last night we agreed that the kids would go with me... ."

sigh... .I remained calm

Tried to validate that decision making was hard work... .I either came across as patronizing... .missed the validation target... .or she was on the way to a full blown dysreg anyway.

She started ranting on the way home... .call me some names as we walked up on the porch... .and as we went into the living room was in full blown rant.  Her father and sister are sitting in the room trying to ignore this...

I remained calm... .got another coffee and prepared to go for a walk.  She keeps ranting about how I got to do everything I wanted and I am "making her" not take the job she wants... .called me a couple more names... .follows me back into the living room and "turned it up" (in my opinion) in front of her family.

I turned and looked at her... .stated "I will not participate in abusive conversations... "  turned... walked out the door.

Got the classic "and don't come back... ." as I left.

Sigh... . 

Was gone about 5-10 minutes... came home... .I'm upstairs now typing... .I can't here some ranting going on to her family downstairs.

She claims that she wasn't serious about calling the principal and was just "calling my bluff... " 

I guess that is projection... .as I'm fine with her calling the principle and waiting.  If it means she doesn't have a job... .I'm sure she can get another.

For this job she applied, was called for an interview 2 days later... .interviewed about a week later (could have been sooner... but travel and distance was an issue)

As I examine myself... .I'm not happy... .but I seem calm... .sort of "resigned".

Big sigh... .

FF

I get another coffee and head out the door for a walk

[formflier]

 

Well... .I think it's going to be one of those days where you guys get lots of posts from me.

We just had about a 30 minute conversation... .

She started out by demanding that she not be interrupted... .and that she wanted each party to only talk for a minute... .so that I didn't monopolize the conversation... .this talk from her went on for about 3-4 minutes.

I agreed... spoke for about 5 seconds... .and she was off again on a semi respectful rant.

After 2-3 minutes I offered the use of my phone with a timer if she felt that I was monopolizing... she seemed excited and said that would be helpful.    

So... .we then went on a very interesting discussion where she "pretty much" stuck to the minute... .and I spoke for a minute... .and she did lots of sighing and grew agitated.  I could see a struggle for control on her part.(meaning she was trying to control her emotions)

She explained the four rules of communication to me several times.

Demanded we stay current... .especially with my PTSD issues and all the stuff I have done in the past.  (I'm guessing it was baiting)

I agreed we should stay current and discuss the current situation... .didn't take bait.

She offered up several versions of what we had agreed to... .a few of them I was able to acknowledge we had discussed as possibilities.

She tried to say that her education degree meant that I couldn't make decisions about kids schools... that she was the expert.    :)idn't take bait.

She said I was getting mad and PTSD was back.  She said it in a "normal" tone... .so I stuck with conversation vice leaving.  I offered to share my feelings and emotions if she wanted to ask... .and left it at that.

Anyway... .no benefit in recounting the entire 30 minutes.  I keep saying I wanted to focus on solutions and the here and now... .and she would say it's obvious I didn't want that because I wouldn't agree with what she wanted.

I asked her for other solutions... .she said there were none.  

She says her solution this morning (telling principal she can't come until thanksgiving) was "calling my bluff" and now she's called it... . hmmm... .  

She finally said she needed to take a break... .and stormed out of the room.  3-4 minutes later a very sweet voice says "We are going to Hardees... .would you like something?"  I asked for a ham biscuit.

Luckily... .I "feel" ok.  Not triggered... .not mad... .I am somewhat weary of this.

As I look at patterns... .I think this is a version of the I'll get all of my family here... .come up with one and only one solution to whatever problem is in front of me... .and then ram that through.

That just doesn't work... .I choose to live a different life... .as I think about this... .it's not my choice or in my control if she attempts these things.  

It is in my control if I go along with them.

FF

[formflier]

Your wife may feel eager to start this new job. Maybe it isn't as flexible as she had hoped. Perhaps this job is also fulfilling to her in non financial ways.

I believe she genuinely is.  She is a good teacher... .stays on top of kids... .and is very good at "controlling" a classroom and nipping disrespect in the bud.

I've had several people that I trust... .that have watched her in action... .tell me this. 

She gets great satisfaction from doing well in the classroom.  Doing well is having a rowdy bunch and getting them "settled down" and on task. 

I regularly praise her for this... .I was encouraging of her in her job search.  As expected, she has gone from loving the job to hating it and back again... .

She sometimes claims it pays a pittance... and then will claim it is the solution to all our financial needs... .then belittles me by saying that I am not working.

I just made over $1000 doing ride share over a three day period.  Her new job that she is taking pays $11.75 per hour... .but will very likely lead to full time "permanent" teaching position.

I made in 3 days what she will make in over 2 weeks... .she has the option to stay here and rideshare but has told me she "doesn't want to".

Yet... she will claim "it's only about the money... ."... .not about what we want.

Uggg... .

Anyway... .laying this out to clarify that there is no "real" (IMO) financial need being solved by this.

I get it... .pwBPD traits don't necessarily deal with reality as nons do.  I laid this out to assure those reading that the financial need is a matter of opinion. 

She has claimed we won't eat without her getting this job.  I validated fear about money... .without agreeing or disagreeing.

Sigh... .

FF

[Fian]

If I understand this situation, the 2 kids leaving early with your wife would not cause any serious issues - your issue is that she did not set the expectation in advance, and it has now become more an issue of her ignoring your wishes and disrespecting your authority.  If I am understanding this correctly, my advice is to agree to the 2 kids going with her.  There is no negative impact to them and if you agree she is no longer ignoring your wishes.

[formflier]

There is no negative impact to them and if you agree she is no longer ignoring your wishes.

I don't want to under or over state things... .will try to be clear.

No danger.

Yes I believe there will be a negative impact.  D5 was struggling at school... .recently has gotten into a groove and is doing great.

Wife and I both agree that we wish we could find a classroom as good as the one she has now... .in our next place. 

We were both in agreement to leave her (d5) in this situation that is working until thanksgiving when we expect (hope) to have house closed and someplace to move.

The focus of our conversations has been on stability for kids and this girl especially.

Now... the focus has flipped... .and the ONLY stability in this girls life (d5) is her mother that provide ALL of her care while she begs me to help her and I have done NOTHING for a year for this girl.

I didn't continue debating in this conversation... .complete fantasy... .I understand it is real to her.

I'm trying to clarify my thinking here... .I don't think I'm "eager" or trying to pick a battle.

My thinking is like this:  Please help me clarify... .

I'm not going to dictate to my wife what she must or must not accept.  She can live by her values.

I'm not going to be dictated to what I must or must not accept.  I will live by my values.

I'm available for compromise... .I have agreed to several... .offered many more... .and made it clear that I am not drawing a line in the sand... .I'm willing to work to find compromise.

I offered to let her have "complete control" of this area... .if this was what she was wanting (she said it wasn't what she wanted... .that she wanted to work it out with me... .and that meant I should agree to her plan) if we could define other areas of parenting where she would cede control to me.

She has agreed to that and then back away from that.

Then complained I was "forcing" her to give up here power.  My response was I don't want to force her to do anything... .nor do I want to be forced.  If we can't come to mutual agreement... .I willing to continue looking for other solutions.

I completely realize that we may never come to mutual agreement... .that she may go off the deep end... .who knows.

I don't want that... .but I'm not scared of it.



FF

[flourdust]

Moving is always stressful, always disruptive, even if you plan it down to the second.

I have to agree with most of the commenters that the three week difference in moving is pretty much inconsequential, in the longer scheme of things. It will be stressful and tough when you move, but you'll be settling into a new routine a few months from now, regardless of whether the move takes place this week or after Thanksgiving.

Is there something else going on with your reluctance on this issue? From your posts, I see a lot of concern (on your part) about giving up control and about sticking to agreements. For a short-term change in plans like this, are those really important issues?

Having moved both a three year old and a six year old cross-country (same child, different moves!), I agree with another poster that the disruption at that age is fairly modest. Having a new school and new routine for them to slide into will help the kids adjust quickly, and they'll have new friends by the end of the week.

I'm not in your shoes, but based on the issues you're describing, I wouldn't fight your wife's plan. I'd be annoyed by it, certainly, but it's a short-term pain with no lasting consequences.

[formflier]

Is there something else going on with your reluctance on this issue? From your posts, I see a lot of concern (on your part) about giving up control and about sticking to agreements. For a short-term change in plans like this, are those really important issues?

Yes... .there is an underlying issue.


My wife has been doing relatively better at compromising and keeping agreements.  She can do it.  It's not impossible.

I've demonstrated flexibility as has she.  It is possible on both parties.

Having moved both a three year old and a six year old cross-country (same child, different moves!), I agree with another poster that the disruption at that age is fairly modest.

I agree... it's only three weeks.  There is no basis of my wife's claims that she will not be cared for if left here.

If it was longer... .or permanent... .I would be more understanding of my wife's position.

Having a new school and new routine for them to slide into will help the kids adjust quickly, and they'll have new friends by the end of the week.

Which is the basis of one of my proposed compromises.  That my wife go up there... .check out some different options and after a week (or some other period of time)... .we'll make a decision on where best to place D5.

I should explain a bit more.  D5 started kindergarten here... .barely made the cutoff for age.  Different cutoff in new state.  New state has said she can continue... .or skip this year and start kindergarten next year.

We have both expressed that we are ok with either option... .putting in kindergarten up there or going with preschool.  That the issue is "fit" of the teacher and student. 

She is moving into an unknown.  Her situation right now is known and we both agree she is thriving.  I have been especially enjoying the connection of father and daughter in the morning as I struggle to do hair... .get her dressed... .walk her to school.  Walk over and pick her up from school and bring her back home.  Get the snack... .check her homework folder... .etc etc.  I've been working hard at that... .and we are seeing results.

At one point in the 30 minute "semi-respectful" conversation that we had today... .my wife acknowledged that I had been doing better (note... .she is speaking about things she is not around to witness?)  She said is a mocking tone that I even figured out how to dress her this morning... ."let's give formflier a hand... ."  she stood and clapped.

I didn't take the bait

My response was that I wanted to work on finding solutions rather than evaluating parenting capabilties.

In the past... .I would have taken the bait... .or went off on a rabbit trail with her... .I tried to drive back to solutions.

I've even offered a compromise where my wife can be the sole decision maker of this area as I trust her judgement.

The second compromise was accepted... .and then rejected after I express satisfaction that we have resolved our matter.

I'm not in your shoes, but based on the issues you're describing, I wouldn't fight your wife's plan. I'd be annoyed by it, certainly, but it's a short-term pain with no lasting consequences.

[formflier]

 

Well said, OnceConfused.  My days as a doormat are over!  LuckyJim

There is some of this thinking going on with me... .

Like many things... .it's not all this or all that.

I don't want to prejudge what I will do on any issue in the future... .

But... .likelihood of me going along with plans where there is "only one way" that pops up at last minute... .is completely opposite of a previous agreement and that in describing history... .a fantasy land appears... .are extremely low

That doesn't mean that I get it all either... .

The solution lies somewhere in between.  I've accepted several solutions that were proposed to me...

[flourdust]

It looks to me like you've drawn a line in the sand -- you will "win" this conflict by forcing a "compromise."

Why do you think you need to win this one?

[Daniell85]

I don't think it is about winning for FF.

Someone proposed to me many weeks ago about "dipping their toe in the swimming pool".

FF wife is unilaterally making important choices on her own that break agreements they mutually made together for the well being of their family.

At what point is her toe in the pool, her foot, her leg, she jumps in.

Why does he need to "win" any "one"?

Her BPD impulsive choices are not just effecting her. Now it's the whole family and in particular a child who has just now started to settle down into school after distress.

There are all sorts of antics FF wife is using to FORCE him to accept her choices that have been unilaterally made. She is not sincere in her discussions.

Ok, maybe we are here to help him find a path through. At the same time, it sounds absolutely exhausting to deal with. I think he is entitled to feel upset and express that here at times.  

FF are you worried she will then act unilaterally even more if you agree to let her take the children.

Is the 5 year old your youngest?

[formflier]

FF are you worried she will then act unilaterally even more if you agree to let her take the children.

Is the 5 year old your youngest?

Oddly enough... I'm not worried about it. 

She may act unilaterally... .I have put some thought into it.  My understanding (from previous research) is that I can have kids back in this state within 10 days.

That's the "facts" part of it. 

The "feelings" part of it... .is right now... .I'm over the fear and the worry... .and the concern about the antics she will pull.

She vaguely referenced ending up back in court if certain things continued.  My guess it was a vague divorce threat.

She may divorce me... .I'll be fine and so will my family.  That is not want I want by a long shot... .and I will do everything in my power to "not participate" in that... .but the fact is... .if she wants out... .she can make that happen.

Long winded way of saying it may happen... .but I'm not worried about.

Very different than saying I don't care.

My youngest is 2 years old... .oldest is 20. 

S20, d18, s15, s13, d10, s7, d5, d2.  I chuckle as I look at that list... .and hope I got all the ages right.  S7 is my only concern... .right now I don't feel like looking up the birth certificate or thinking through it...    

It's not an issue of letting a kid go.  D2 is with my MIL in the new state now.  By mutual agreement.  The timing of how that happened got modified a little as it came around.  It was not "my way or the highway".

If I was advising myself... .I would feel completely different is there were not regular indications that things have been way better with my wife and that she is capable of compromise and "keeping her word". 

My advice to someone with an out of control BPD spouse with no indication of compromise... .would be to "roll with it" if intactness of the family is paramount... .or that if you take a stand... .be fully prepared for her to come unglued and that is it likely that she will come unglued.

I don't think it likely that my wife comes apart... .but that analysis really didn't "weigh" on my decision making.

I don't do "my way or the highway" anymore... .  Haven't for a long time.  Do I walk around making sure I am consistent on all issues... .no I don't.

That would be exhausting.

This is exhausting as well... .but it is survivable. 

So... .if we agree on "x" for dinner... .and my wife makes "y"... .I thank and love on her and it never gets mentioned.

Hope I answered questions... .let me know if I didn't...

FF

[formflier]

It looks to me like you've drawn a line in the sand -- you will "win" this conflict by forcing a "compromise."

Why do you think you need to win this one?

It's not about "winning"... .but... I see the point of view.  I do...

It's totally believable that my wife and others look at this and think I am just doing this to be an azz that cares about winning and has no regard for his kids or wife.  I can be empathetic with a person like that.  No need to argue or "win".

So... with that being said... .I'll try to address why I think this is important.

Basic principle... .I don't dictate to others and I don't allow others to dictate to me.  Especially in marriage.

Did I use to go along with this or was I "fearful"... .yep.  It's been a long time.

I don't think it is wise or good for the long term health of our marriage to agree to rewriting history... .and a two day notice that the world has changed... .with no other options... . 

Then other options are presented... .I agree to them... .and they were not real options (apparently).

I'm fine with issue remaining unsolved... .

I'm fine with my wife's job evaporating because of this

I'm fine with lots of things happening "as a result" of my (insert the description of whatever I'm doing)

Very different than saying I'm seeking this out to happen... .or I am actively looking to "cause" harm to my wife.

Listen... .you guys "know" me... and if you are seeing big inconsistencies... please "call me on it"

I want to be consistent.

Other times I have "not agreed with my wife" have been chore charts, some money issues, there was a kid thing at the end of the summer... trying to think... I'm sure they are more.

I don't "buck up" over "minor issues"... .at least in my opinion.

I don't have a matrix or whatever... .but I kinda "know it when I see it... .or hear it"... .

I hope I answered the question... .not sure if I did.

FF

[flourdust]

I appreciate your thoughtful post. I think you might want to consider why this doesn't feel like a minor issue to you.

Let's say we're going out to dinner. There's a particular restaurant I really don't want to go to, but my wife has decided that we're going there or there will be fireworks. Most likely, I accede to her demand. Where we eat is a minor issue. I'll be upset and annoyed with her and think many uncharitable thoughts. I won't enjoy my dinner. But, we'll all get some food, and it's just one meal.

Another example -- sadly, this is what actually happened Friday night. We were out at a Halloween event and decided to get dinner afterwards. I thought of a nearby Mexican restaurant that was supposed to be good. We had never been there. I drove there, and my wife started ramping up to an explosion -- all kinds of irrational reasons about why we couldn't eat there. I was trying to be reasonable and calm, suggesting we should go in, look at the menu ... .if she didn't like it, we could leave, and so on. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking it's prime time on Friday night -- if we leave now, we'll be driving around forever trying to find a place where we can eat without waiting an hour for a table. That made THIS dinner decision more significant, because there were consequences. She ended up screaming at me outside the restaurant and staying outside for 15 minutes while my daughter and I went in, got a table, and ordered.

Why am I boring you with talk about dinners? Because I'm still not seeing (as an outsider, who may not have all the facts) that there are any significant consequences to whether you move this week or three weeks from now. That's one of my guiding rules -- don't fight when there's nothing at stake. And, yes, I'm better at describing my rule than acting consistently on it.

Maybe we should trade wives for a few weeks -- I'll move with your family, you can go to dinner with mine.

[sweetheart]

ff as much I can hear what you are saying about your childrens schooling, the reality is for a 5 and a 7 year old three weeks will make absolutely no difference to them. What will make a difference to them however is making sure that any transition is as easy as possible whatever the time frame, with whichever parent.

So the problem here for you is that your wife is not adhering to your previously negotiated arrangements. That she has accepted a job offer that starts earlier than expected and wants to take your two young children with her. You'll all be following on in three weeks anyway is that right?

So given that your wife is probably very unlikely to find a compromise here, what could you do to stop this escalating into a full blown dysregulation? How can you help her? Would it be so terrible to accomadate her here and let this go ahead, again given how stressful she is finding all of this? What difference will the three weeks make overall?

I personally would not choose to make an issue of this during a time of increased stress. I believe this is a time to accomadate where you can. I say this because as the non we are in a unique position to have insight into our SO's behaviours. We know that at times of high stress their behaviour becomes chaotic and dysregulated. We are the ones without a mental illness that must be emotionally resilient enough to acquiesce to such impulsivity and poor planning in a way that is supportive and accepting. What would this look like to you?

[Notwendy]

I'm fine with my wife's job evaporating because of this



But is she? I understand that this issue is one of many where she is overstepping the boundaries by not going along with the agreement you have. This occurs repeatedly not because of the issue, but because of her relationship approach.

In a similar manner, my marriage has "normal " situations, but our ability to negotiate things is influenced by our relationship style. So while there isn't anything unusual about what we want to do- discuss a place to retire, make plans with the kids- it gets complicated because of the baggage. Like the example I posted about unexpected plans changing. A person may be disappointed, but a dysfunctional person may blame the other for it even if it was not something the other could control

Control is a big issue. By breaking an agreement or having a no compromise proposal, there is control.

If an action causes a reaction, then your wife's actions can lead you to dig in your heels. For you, it is too much. You either give in or you get your way, and if you agree with your wife, then by not going along with it, she maintains her sense of control. If you give in, your feel taken advantage of.

But this isn't all about your D5 , or the finances... .it is how you two work together. It may reflect her way of thinking.

Either argument doesn't hold a lot of water. It isn't much money on her end, and it really isn't bad for the two younger kids. If D5 is struggling in K, and is young for grade, a possibility is that it is developmental and she needs extra time.

[formflier]

And... .solutions show up... .


My wife approached and updated me on what she has been doing the last few hours... .which was in response to some of my requests/issues/objections that i raised with her "proposal"

She called a local university (in the new area)... .and spoke with their early childhood development program.  

She they have a program that focuses on kids that need further emotional/social development... .maybe I should say it "focuses" on that aspect.  They have PhD type teachers... .that supervise early childhood development students... .

Anyway... .they have no slots in the morning... .but do have slots in the afternoon.

I let my wife know that my gut reaction is that this is the way to go.  To keep her in this program until next fall... .and start a new year of kindergarten where she is the oldest.  We seem to be on same page with that.

Further my wife called her principal and let her know she needed some more time... .principal seems OK with it.  I didn't question my wife on this... .just listened and agreed more time was good.

My understanding is that they are talking about her starting work this coming Monday.  That will allow for wife to get up there so on Friday she can get D5 signed up and "in" the childcare program.

This was all just after kids came home from school... .and we need to get them over for flu shots and other things that happen... .so not a lot of time to dwell on this conversation.

I told my wife that my initial reaction was good... .that this is the right step... .and that I should be able to work with her schedule issues.  

I said "I want us to find something we can be together on... ."

I told her... "I've got a million things on my mind... .let's get together later this evening and hash out details so there are no misunderstandings, and that I was confident we were on the right track."

She agreed... .seemed happy... .gave me kiss on way out to get kids shots.

I have no plans to bring up "the past" later this evening... .

This thing may work out great... .or she could have a meltdown tonight... .who knows.   I'll be ok either way.

But... my expectation is that we have found a way forward.

Note: At some point... .father in law and sister left today.  

Looks like s13 just got home off bus... I'm going to take him over to get a shot as well... .

Such is life... .

Please keep comments coming (especially those that think I was on wrong track)... .I need to keep "sharpening" myself... .

FF

[teapay]

From your description it seems like your wife was trying to test you.  It has a certain set up and manipulation air to it.  She threw up a situation on short notice, it front of others and in a way where your holding your resolve would hurt her (lost job) and would make you look like a big jerk over an issue that seemingly could be compromised (although you probably already compromised in your prior agreement).  I can definitely relate to broken agreements and your sensivity towards enforcing them.  My wife often uses them in an incremental way to get what she wants if I continue to compromise after each broken agreement.

What did your relatives make of this?  What do your adult and older kids make of your wife and these situations? Are they understanding and supportive of you? 

[Sunfl0wer]

I find how this is all playing out rather interesting.  I am grateful you are sharing this with us.

It sounds to me like you are walking a fine line between... .

1. Just expecting BPD behaviors

2. Vs expecting her to behave where she is capable

I suspect... . Am wondering... . That had you just resigned to accept BPD behaviors rather than slightly challenge where you feel she may live up to it... .That this first option actually is a form of victimization of your w.  And would easily play out as a fulfilling prophecy.

However, you choose to expect a bit more of her, and she appears to be rising to the occasion.

I cannot imagine the majority here recommending this second method, as it is only for the very very skilled, discernible, and consistent ... .to employ.  Also, it must be like trying to hit a moving target to decide what you w "is capable of" and motivated to live up to in any given moment... .as I'm sure most pwBPD's capability is a dynamic and ever changing thing.

Sounds a bit like your consistency allowed her the sense of security to not go to her "default" means of "conflict resolution."  Sounds like she felt safe enough to step out of her comfort zone by applying some compromise for now.

Well... .that's my thoughts atm.

[formflier]

 

I'll try to add some "deeper" comments later.

Last night she took S15 and his friend into town to do shopping.  She came home... .left TV off... .left her phone on the end table... and we hung out and talked for a while.

I had made a decision to not bring it up.  She wants a change... .she wants something... .she can advocate for it.

Well... .after a while she asks... ."What are we going to do... ."

We had great discussion... .came to compromise.

More later.

FF

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

Which is the basis of one of my proposed compromises.  That my wife go up there... .check out some different options and after a week (or some other period of time)... .we'll make a decision on where best to place D5.

Sorry to jump in this late, but I have a question trying to wrap my head around the situation... .

Do you two have a place to live in the new location?  If not then without the childcare program, if your w puts her in a school could that then result in another transfer if you buy a house in another school's district?

Hopefully the childcare option works out... .seems like that would give you the most flexibility.

[Fian]

My 2 cents is that both you and your wife right now have extra stress due to a move.  This isn't the time or the hill to die on.  Your wife has a disorder, and there are some things that she just can't handle well - moving is one of them.  Anyway, glad to hear that you managed to work it out.

P.S.  I am also surprised that you said that your children would be fine if you got a divorce.  They would most definitely not be fine, as divorce takes a heavy toll on children.  I wonder if the stress of moving is also causing you to not be at your best either?

[formflier]

 

Ah yes... .temp living situation at her parents house. 

Hopefully permanent living situation towards the end of the month.  So far so good on loan and other things with buying the house.

FF

[formflier]

P.S.  I am also surprised that you said that your children would be fine if you got a divorce.  They would most definitely not be fine, as divorce takes a heavy toll on children.  I wonder if the stress of moving is also causing you to not be at your best either?

They may be fine in a divorce... .or they may not.  I'll do my best and let the chips fall where they may.

Same attitude of raising kids in an "intact" home with a pwBPD traits... .they may be fine... .or they may not.

As far as me... .in the past month or two my wife has been "backsliding" into stuff she hasn't done in a long time...

She may pull herself back into those bad behaviors and stuff... .I'm not going

I had kinda relaxed a little... .and thought I had things "licked" (Southern for solved... .   )

So... .I've been thinking and examining things... .and I'm going to focus hard on looking to me for happiness and satisfaction.  Toughen up on what I will "participate in" in my r/s.

There is also a subtext going on of moving close to her FOO.  BOUNDARIES! 

The more I learn... .the more clearly I see dysfunction... .the less willing I am to put up with it... .or participate in.

FF