Divorce Advice

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello,

I'd like to get a divorce. How does it work when your BPD SO does not have a job and will not seek one? Our son is in daycare so its not like she has that for an excuse.

Thanks

[hegrid]

Hello,

I'd like to get a divorce. How does it work when your BPD SO does not have a job and will not seek one? Our son is in daycare so its not like she has that for an excuse.

Thanks

[livednlearned]

Hi hegrid.

I'm sorry to hear your relationship is headed for divorce. Members on this board understand, and know what it's like. How are you holding up? How old is your son? Do you do most of the parenting?

It's actually a good thing that your son is in daycare because courts like to keep things status quo.

Every state has a slightly different way of dealing with things, but in my state, only spouses in marriages that have lasted roughly 10 years receive alimony, and that's only for half the span of the marriage. For example, I was married a little over 10 years, my ex made 6 times more than me, and I received alimony for 5 years.

If your wife is not working, she will be expected to get a job like every other adult. Claiming that she doesn't have a job should have no bearing on her, unless she was a stay-at-home mom and it was not considered cost effective to get a low-paying job that couldn't cover the costs of child care.

Have you consulted with a lawyer? If not, you might want to talk to 2 or 3 before choosing one. It can cost $100 or up for 30-60 minutes, and you can ask a lot of questions to help you strategize. You'll hear different things from each lawyer -- all will have their own skill sets.

And be sure to read Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a NPD/BPD Spouse by Bill Eddy.

[SamwizeGamgee]

I'll just add the suggestion to plan, plan, and plan.  You have to have thought this through before even hinting that you want to talk about divorce. This is not a rational person you married.  You may have to unilaterally impose your will on the situation, so you need to know your will first.

Take as long as you need, so long as health and safety are not at stake.

[ForeverDad]

If you did get divorced, can you estimate the odds of her fighting to be the primary parent?  If she's not working then court is likely inclined to start the temp order with her having the child most of the time and getting child support from you.  (That's what happened to me.)  Perhaps also spousal support during the divorce.

It is in your best interest to seek as much parenting time as possible from the very start.  Not waiting until the end of the divorce process in the final decree, but at the very start, from filing and in the initial temporary order.  Whether you get it doesn't matter, do your best asking and seeking it.  You want the court to know that you're stepping forward to be a deeply involved father, not just an alternate weekend visitor.

It is in your best interest to also remind court at every hearing that your spouse should be working.  Do sit back and leave it to the court to think about it, it won't.  They deal with people as they are.  If you don't push for it, the work issue may get sidelined and virtually ignored.  Millions of fathers and mothers work, she should be no exception.

Frankly, many non-working parents, even fathers, can think they deserve support rather than seek out work.  It's even more ingrained if they're disordered and entitled.  That's a perception you have to address proactively.

There is a risk that she may get alimony post decree but probably only for no more than half the length of the marriage and probably less.  In my case we settled on I had been married 15 years when I filed for divorce and we settled on one sixth or 2 months for each year.  A lot depends on your state and the local courts.  Judges typically have some level of discretion.

[Panda39]

It is in your best interest to also remind court at every hearing that your spouse should be working.  Do sit back and leave it to the court to think about it, it won't.  They deal with people as they are.  If you don't push for it, the work issue may get sidelined and virtually ignored.  Millions of fathers and mothers work, she should be no exception.

Frankly, many non-working parents, even fathers, can think they deserve support rather than seek out work.  It's even more ingrained if they're disordered and entitled.  That's a perception you have to address proactively.

My SO was married 17 years + 2 years separated and had to pay alimony for 5 years.  His uBPDxw had a Bachelor's Degree and a history of working (albeit inconsistently) so even though she wasn't working at the time of the divorce her alimony was imputed.

Obviously everyone's state laws and situations are different.  I would also suggest consulting a lawyer to get some of your basic questions answered so you get an idea of the laws in your state.

Panda39

[ForeverDad]

It is in your best interest to also remind court at every hearing that your spouse should be working.  Do NOT sit back and leave it to the court to think about it, it won't.  They deal with people as they are.  If you don't push for it, the work issue may get sidelined and virtually ignored.  Millions of fathers and mothers work, she should be no exception.

I made a blooper typo in the above, I added 'NOT' to correct it.

There is another possibility, though if you've only been married a few years this may not apply.  Sometimes the non-working spouse doesn't have any skills and the court may like the idea for the disadvantaged spouse to get some transitional support/alimony so that the person can get job training or a couple years of skills or career education.

The point is that the old image that divorced wives always get lifetime alimony is incorrect.  These days it might apply to long marriages but even those are becoming more limited.  Alimony is seen more and more as transitional support into single life.  However, child support and even government support are seen more and more as a way to avoid work.

[Duck_Borders]

DO NOT LET HER KNOW THAT YOU'RE PLANNING DIVORCE UNTIL YOU ARE READY!  (Assuming she's definitely a personality disorder)

Here are some steps I wish I would have known to take:

1)  Read Splitting.  It is a great book and you will find it extremely useful.  Follow all instructions in splitting.  I've read it 3 times now. 

2)  Record everything!  Angry texts/emails are great.  Get a hidden camera and record her anger explosions at you.  If you get a recording of her assaulting you or threatening to lie to authorities that will be exceptionally useful.  Audio might be useful, but video of an assault is the best.

3)  Find a divorce lawyer experienced with personality disorders and/or high conflict divorces.  I interviewed about 10 lawyers without paying any "consultation fees".  I just asked to explain my situation to them for 5 - 10 minutes.  The one's who wouldn't even take 5 minutes to listen to me I didn't bother trying, and I found a very skilled lawyer in this field.  Personality disorders are nightmares in court (and high conflict court cases are their dream scenario) you do not want an inexperienced lawyer for this.  Good stuff isn't cheap and cheap stuff isn't good.  A good lawyer will save you thousands in other costs as well as emotional trauma.



Assuming you have a true personality disorder on your hands, you have to take this very very seriously.  They can turn very nasty, very quickly.  Trust me from a guy who wasn't prepared - better safe than sorry. 

[david]

Also document everything you can. If you are taking care of son than make sure you have a few months of documenting that. Like a diary. Who does the transportation, cooking, cleaning for son.

I drove kids to school, did their school work with them, made their lunches, washed their clothes, etc but didn't have any documentation. If I kept a journal of each day that would have gone a long way in court. It was my word against ex's word and as the judge said, "It is my opinion that mom's are better at raising small children than dads are." If I had a journal and summarized it things would have gone much differently.

[david]

You probably need three to six months of documentation.

[ForeverDad]

It's okay to look back and retroactively document what you can.  Something is better than nothing.  Include details such as dates, times, places, receipts, witnesses, etc.  What you want to avoid are errors (you say Ex didn't take children but Ex is able to prove Ex did) and too-vague over-generalizations ("he always... ." or "she always... .".

As David noted, courts generally only consider incidents within the 6 months before filing.  Anything older can be viewed as 'stale' or not actionable.  That is, you should have reported it sooner.  It's akin to me calling 911 and saying "My ex threatened to hurt herself last month" and the person responding, "well, it isn't an emergency now, if it happens again then call back more promptly".  However, all is not lost, it can be used to document a pattern of behaviors.

[Duck_Borders]

On the documentation note:

I started several Google forms for my BPD to make it easier to keep track of things.  I have one for her mood swings, one for when she denies me access to my son, one for when she doesn't give my son his meds or misses important dr's appointments, etc.

Google forms are super easy to setup and they TIMESTAMP every entry and put it into a spreadsheet.  That way if you have to present that evidence in court, it is timestamped by google as to the date you entered it. 

If you want advice on how to use google forms let me know and I'll post a tutorial.

Here's an example:

Daily Interaction Log

- Interaction type (Phone call, facetime, text, email... .)

- Interaction Mood (Happy, sad, angry, depressed, lonely,... .)

- Reason for mood? (Paragraph answer)

- Additional Notes (Paragraph answer)

- Did she indicate unfit parenting?


Cheers,